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This text could do with some hard references to substantiate dates and history. I have seen and heard various factoids (then repeated on websites) but the history of Carn Brea is often retold and can drift from documented fact.
I also doubt the statement These provided the first evidence in Britain of permanent Neolithic settlement..., what about the permanent Neolithic settlement at
Skara Brae excavated by
1930?
Ashley VH 19:24, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
I have just put back in Category:Archaeological sites in the United Kingdom, Category:Iron Age Britain, Category:Stone Age Europe, Category:Neolithic. These still seem relevant for a site that has had extensive Archaelogical surveys and digs and is a site with finds relevant for each of the age categories, not just prehistory. Was there a rationale for removing them? -- Ashley VH 15:56, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
Just working through the category logic (which is definitely confusing, for example "Iron Age" being a parent of "Prehistory" (issue raised in
Category talk:Prehistoric sites in England)), I thought it would be useful to put the hierarchy here for reference (not exhaustive). Bold shows where
Carn Brea has been added. --
Ashley VH 12:34, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
Sidenote, the tool Special:CategoryTree is highly useful for checking categories.-- Ashley VH ( talk) 13:47, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
I've created a new template for megalithic sites, Template:Megalith, as used on Pikestones and Round Loaf. Some instructions on the template talk page, to show how to use it. Cheers! -- PopUpPirate 13:29, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
I have reinstated this news item, as I feel it is a relevant fact about activity on the castle.
I do not see any problem with including a mention of the Potter-car, and am utterly at a loss as to how anyone could feel it overweighs the entire article. DuncanHill 15:05, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
It's also nice to see editors turning up who have previously shown no interest in the article, or any other Cornish articles, bringing their expertise. I hope to see lots more of them! DuncanHill 17:41, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
If a piece of news has hit several national (UK) newspapers, why should we, as Wikipedians, feel the need that it merits no place in Wikipedia land? Can anyone who objects to the Harry Potter reference please explain that? Tinminer 18:02, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
Surely if we really want to wade fully into pedantic land with this, why don't we remove all reference to 'smugglers tunnel', as there is no physical proof of its existence, or any quality references for it. I don't think that we actually should remove it, but I feel that the reference to the Harry Potter car is MORE valid, as it has actual evidence to back it up. Tinminer 18:06, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
That's a lot different to your previous claim that it overweighs [sic] the entire article. It is a brief mention, not featured in the introduction, and comes after the material about the Carn's history. In my judgement, it is not undue weight, and does not detract from or distort the article.
DuncanHill 19:02, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
Tony, if we apply your argument to the Carn Brea article, we will need to delete most of it, as there are a lot of un-sourced and un-referenced statements and facts which are not directly related to each other (e.g. the Boxing Day hunt and the neolithic settlement). However, while this may make the article more balanced in your view, it would also deplete the usefulness of the article, and the authority it gives as a work of reference. Tinminer 19:13, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
I apparently am not sufficiently noisy to edit this article, so I will make a comment and "earn" the right. As far as I can see, the Potter reference is a minor happenstance which doesn't add anything of note to Carn Brea's history. Simply mentioning Harry Potter is not a guarantee of a worthwhile addition, for all the glamour that name bears; it's not as if we can even source that the thieves chose the castle for any special reason. -- Mark H Wilkinson ( t, c) 10:43, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
All right, folks. That's something like 15 edits all just adding or removing this one line of text, and no other edits to this article in months. WP:LAME is right. Talk it over until you get some kind of agreement, please, and tell me, or another admin, and we'll unprotect. -- AnonEMouse (squeak) 18:11, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
I know nothing about Cornwall, but did a bit of on-web research, added some information and citations, and the image from this talk page. I hope my edits are considered useful in any case. Tony, are they sufficient for you to consider that the sentence about the car will no longer be undue weight? -- AnonEMouse (squeak) 17:12, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
It would enhance this article if there were an article on Francis Basset, Baron de Dunstanville and first Baron Basset (1757–1835). Vernon White - T A L K . . . to me. 07:42, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
It would be good to add a link to Carn Brea Mining Society when Harry Potter and all his works are forgotten and the page is unfrozen! Also a Wikimedia gallery page. Vernon White - T A L K . . . to me. 19:28, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
{{
editprotected}}
This article's not protected. I've removed the expired protection tag. Cheers. -- MZMcBride 21:53, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
Any objections to using this cropped image instead? The larger one is mostly of trees and houses, and doesn't show the castle and monument much. -- AnonEMouse (squeak) 17:56, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
Changed to Smugglers' Cave from Smugglers' Tunnel to fit with Michael Tangye's description in his book and added the book as a reference.
Note that as a young boy (in the 1970's) I was lowered down on a tow-rope by my cousin into part of the Smugglers' Cave "tunnel" that then could be entered by a small overgrown hole along its length (about 40 foot away from the larger cave-like entrance further towards the Cross, later blocked off by the Council). It was partially blocked and the floor of the tunnel was loose slate. The tunnel was about 5 foot in height but I was too frightened to release myself from the rope to go exploring any further, probably a sensible decision as I could see that parts of the tunnel had already fallen in. -- Ashley VH 10:41, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
The book Cornovia: Ancient Sites of Cornwall & Scilly by Craig Weatherhill, ISBN 1-871060-31-1 has an excellent piece on the prehistory of the Carn, if someone has access to the book they would find useful and citable additions for the article. I have the book, and can supply extracts to editors, but am currently unwilling to edit the article. DuncanHill 10:50, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
For material on Carn Brea mines, I suggest Cornwall's Central Mines: The Northern District 1810-1895 by T. A. Morrison, ISBN 0-906720-10-9, for Carn Brea and granite, then South West Granite by Peter Stanier, ISBN 1-900147-13-0 has much of value. DuncanHill 11:00, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
Further material on the mines on the side of the Carn can be found in A History of Tin Mining and Smelting in Cornwall, D. B. Barton, ISBN 1-871060-03-6 DuncanHill 11:08, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
Is this article really about both the Civil Parish AND the hilltop site? Bodrugan ( talk) 16:32, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
There is an error in the map, the label for the A30 road is on the railway track, according to Open Street Map. But see also Commons:File talk:Carn Brea.svg where this is disputed. / Pieter Kuiper ( talk) 22:36, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
What do they do? When did it grow? The article defines a civil parish that does not appear to have existed before 1974. What was it before that date?
I have never heard of Carn Brea before (and I live in the UK). Enough about archaeology and a car that was in a film, I want to know about the history of the community since, say, 1800.
(signed, A genealogist) -- Oldontarian ( talk) 14:15, 1 September 2014 (UTC)
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This text could do with some hard references to substantiate dates and history. I have seen and heard various factoids (then repeated on websites) but the history of Carn Brea is often retold and can drift from documented fact.
I also doubt the statement These provided the first evidence in Britain of permanent Neolithic settlement..., what about the permanent Neolithic settlement at
Skara Brae excavated by
1930?
Ashley VH 19:24, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
I have just put back in Category:Archaeological sites in the United Kingdom, Category:Iron Age Britain, Category:Stone Age Europe, Category:Neolithic. These still seem relevant for a site that has had extensive Archaelogical surveys and digs and is a site with finds relevant for each of the age categories, not just prehistory. Was there a rationale for removing them? -- Ashley VH 15:56, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
Just working through the category logic (which is definitely confusing, for example "Iron Age" being a parent of "Prehistory" (issue raised in
Category talk:Prehistoric sites in England)), I thought it would be useful to put the hierarchy here for reference (not exhaustive). Bold shows where
Carn Brea has been added. --
Ashley VH 12:34, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
Sidenote, the tool Special:CategoryTree is highly useful for checking categories.-- Ashley VH ( talk) 13:47, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
I've created a new template for megalithic sites, Template:Megalith, as used on Pikestones and Round Loaf. Some instructions on the template talk page, to show how to use it. Cheers! -- PopUpPirate 13:29, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
I have reinstated this news item, as I feel it is a relevant fact about activity on the castle.
I do not see any problem with including a mention of the Potter-car, and am utterly at a loss as to how anyone could feel it overweighs the entire article. DuncanHill 15:05, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
It's also nice to see editors turning up who have previously shown no interest in the article, or any other Cornish articles, bringing their expertise. I hope to see lots more of them! DuncanHill 17:41, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
If a piece of news has hit several national (UK) newspapers, why should we, as Wikipedians, feel the need that it merits no place in Wikipedia land? Can anyone who objects to the Harry Potter reference please explain that? Tinminer 18:02, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
Surely if we really want to wade fully into pedantic land with this, why don't we remove all reference to 'smugglers tunnel', as there is no physical proof of its existence, or any quality references for it. I don't think that we actually should remove it, but I feel that the reference to the Harry Potter car is MORE valid, as it has actual evidence to back it up. Tinminer 18:06, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
That's a lot different to your previous claim that it overweighs [sic] the entire article. It is a brief mention, not featured in the introduction, and comes after the material about the Carn's history. In my judgement, it is not undue weight, and does not detract from or distort the article.
DuncanHill 19:02, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
Tony, if we apply your argument to the Carn Brea article, we will need to delete most of it, as there are a lot of un-sourced and un-referenced statements and facts which are not directly related to each other (e.g. the Boxing Day hunt and the neolithic settlement). However, while this may make the article more balanced in your view, it would also deplete the usefulness of the article, and the authority it gives as a work of reference. Tinminer 19:13, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
I apparently am not sufficiently noisy to edit this article, so I will make a comment and "earn" the right. As far as I can see, the Potter reference is a minor happenstance which doesn't add anything of note to Carn Brea's history. Simply mentioning Harry Potter is not a guarantee of a worthwhile addition, for all the glamour that name bears; it's not as if we can even source that the thieves chose the castle for any special reason. -- Mark H Wilkinson ( t, c) 10:43, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
All right, folks. That's something like 15 edits all just adding or removing this one line of text, and no other edits to this article in months. WP:LAME is right. Talk it over until you get some kind of agreement, please, and tell me, or another admin, and we'll unprotect. -- AnonEMouse (squeak) 18:11, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
I know nothing about Cornwall, but did a bit of on-web research, added some information and citations, and the image from this talk page. I hope my edits are considered useful in any case. Tony, are they sufficient for you to consider that the sentence about the car will no longer be undue weight? -- AnonEMouse (squeak) 17:12, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
It would enhance this article if there were an article on Francis Basset, Baron de Dunstanville and first Baron Basset (1757–1835). Vernon White - T A L K . . . to me. 07:42, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
It would be good to add a link to Carn Brea Mining Society when Harry Potter and all his works are forgotten and the page is unfrozen! Also a Wikimedia gallery page. Vernon White - T A L K . . . to me. 19:28, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
{{
editprotected}}
This article's not protected. I've removed the expired protection tag. Cheers. -- MZMcBride 21:53, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
Any objections to using this cropped image instead? The larger one is mostly of trees and houses, and doesn't show the castle and monument much. -- AnonEMouse (squeak) 17:56, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
Changed to Smugglers' Cave from Smugglers' Tunnel to fit with Michael Tangye's description in his book and added the book as a reference.
Note that as a young boy (in the 1970's) I was lowered down on a tow-rope by my cousin into part of the Smugglers' Cave "tunnel" that then could be entered by a small overgrown hole along its length (about 40 foot away from the larger cave-like entrance further towards the Cross, later blocked off by the Council). It was partially blocked and the floor of the tunnel was loose slate. The tunnel was about 5 foot in height but I was too frightened to release myself from the rope to go exploring any further, probably a sensible decision as I could see that parts of the tunnel had already fallen in. -- Ashley VH 10:41, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
The book Cornovia: Ancient Sites of Cornwall & Scilly by Craig Weatherhill, ISBN 1-871060-31-1 has an excellent piece on the prehistory of the Carn, if someone has access to the book they would find useful and citable additions for the article. I have the book, and can supply extracts to editors, but am currently unwilling to edit the article. DuncanHill 10:50, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
For material on Carn Brea mines, I suggest Cornwall's Central Mines: The Northern District 1810-1895 by T. A. Morrison, ISBN 0-906720-10-9, for Carn Brea and granite, then South West Granite by Peter Stanier, ISBN 1-900147-13-0 has much of value. DuncanHill 11:00, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
Further material on the mines on the side of the Carn can be found in A History of Tin Mining and Smelting in Cornwall, D. B. Barton, ISBN 1-871060-03-6 DuncanHill 11:08, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
Is this article really about both the Civil Parish AND the hilltop site? Bodrugan ( talk) 16:32, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
There is an error in the map, the label for the A30 road is on the railway track, according to Open Street Map. But see also Commons:File talk:Carn Brea.svg where this is disputed. / Pieter Kuiper ( talk) 22:36, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
What do they do? When did it grow? The article defines a civil parish that does not appear to have existed before 1974. What was it before that date?
I have never heard of Carn Brea before (and I live in the UK). Enough about archaeology and a car that was in a film, I want to know about the history of the community since, say, 1800.
(signed, A genealogist) -- Oldontarian ( talk) 14:15, 1 September 2014 (UTC)
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 23:15, 20 March 2016 (UTC)
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