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There's a number of citations in this article that need to be verified, improved and so on. Please include and note them here, as they are found.
• In the section titled Carly Fiorina Enterprises and Fiorina Foundation; controversy the first sentence makes non-verified claim: "Fiorina began describing herself as Chair and CEO of Carly Fiorina Enterprises where, according to her political campaign Facebook page, she is 'bringing her unique perspective and experience to bear on the challenging issues of our world, championing economic growth and empowerment for a more prosperous and secure world'.[81][verification needed]." Yet, nowhere at Fiorina's Facebook Page can this quotation be found, nor is it traceable. At that, I wouldn't exactly call a Facebook Page a stable or reliable source. If this cannot be verified, I would suggest removing it from the article. In fact, the paragraph could probably stand without such an introduction; if then to re-phrase it to reflect the rest of the contents. The content from the SF Chronicle was added later as a separate thought, independent from this Facebook claim. It's actually a stronger and more substantial reference to the claims. So, the Facebook mention may not be necessary. Otherwise, find another complimentary and similar reference with this same point made by the Chronicle. Ca.papavero ( talk) 09:51, 7 May 2015 (UTC)
• In the lead section, mentioning "worst CEO" claim: The Guardian and Observer were removed, because of overkill. The Guardian citation [1] redundantly refers to the other sources already cited; i.e., CBS, USA Today, Portfolio; whereas, its not an original source for this claim. Remove Observer citation [2], also because of overkill; plus, that it redundantly quotes the other sources already cited (CBS, USA Today, Portfolio). Ca.papavero ( talk) 19:26, 7 May 2015 (UTC) Also remove ref name CNBC; no citation found. Ca.papavero ( talk) 21:16, 7 May 2015 (UTC)
• In the section AT&T and Lucent, Remove link rot, no proper citation available, not verifiable; s/b from allbusiness.com, re. key words "human resources", "employee development", "leadership"; noted dead link as of date April 2015 [3]
• Avoid duplication! Sellers & Daniels (Fortune, October 1998) was added twice! [4] Please be sure to see if the reference is already appearing in the article... especially when its appears in string of citations, i.e., appearing again right next to the same. It doesn't get more obvious than that.
•The section of the article under AT&T and Lucent makes a claim with many superfluous citations (overkill): "In 1998, Fortune magazine named Fiorina the 'most powerful woman in business' in its inaugural listing, and she was included in the Time 100 in 2004 and remained in the Fortune listing throughout her tenure at HP. She was #10 on the Forbes list of The World's 100 Most Powerful Women for 2004.[25][26][27][28][29][30]" Those six citations are copied here: [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] [10]
•In the lead paragraphs of the article, a sentence states "Since then, she has been described by some publications (and business scholar Jeffrey Sonnenfeld) as one of the worst tech CEOs of all time…" There's two citation from CBS for this claim; whereas, only one is necessary coming from this same source. This second, titled "Five things to know about Carly Fiorina" is merely a re-hash of things past, a retrospective from a year 2015 perspective, as she plans to run for President. [12] Ca.papavero ( talk) 05:17, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
•Broken citation and unverified claim in section Hewlett-Packard (HP): "In 2001, Fiorina was named one of the thirty most powerful women in America by Forbes magazine." [13] Removed, because this was not properly cited (link rot) and its not recoverable. This is now an unknown source. Already said elsewhere…overkill. Ca.papavero ( talk) 06:17, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
• An infographic added as of 8 May 2015 by Bueller 007
is not verifiable and does not appear to be a reliable source either. Clicking the link, it claims to be from Peter L Salmon - Own work Previously published: http://hpstockprice.com. Does Bueller have permission for this infographic? Clicking the link, it cannot be found on the internet. There's no transparent methodology to this presentation, nor proof that permission was give by HP to use their logos, etc. Ca.papavero ( talk) 08:57, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
•Bare URL added as of 8 May 2015 by Bueller 007: Found under section titled Forced resignation from HP. [14]
![]() |
Ca.papavero ( talk) 10:42, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
•In section
Personal transition, via other organizational designations: A few questionable citations. It's said "She is an Honorary Fellow of the
London Business School." A citation from HP's executive profiles webpage no longer includes Fiorina; so, the this is not verifiable, unless can be found elsewhere on the site.
[15]
Ca.papavero (
talk)
21:26, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
•In the section about Criticism and Praise, advice is needed for how to treat a citation that mentions Portfolio.com [18]"(then a division of Condé Nast) have ranked Fiorina as one of the worst American (or tech) CEOs of all time." This is published by CNBC, which is a division of NBC Universal, but its apparently compiled or originally from Portfolio.com, which was then a division of Conde Nast… which in turn has merged into another company since then. Do you think this is appropriately attributed and referenced, or do you have a better recommendation as how to treat it? This is probably one of the more complex one's I've seen. As the citation is now written, all parties are mentioned; but, I'm not sure exactly the right way. Maybe its okay, maybe it could be better. Ca.papavero ( talk) 20:08, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
•In the section about Advocate at large, there's a broken citation for the sentence that reads "On February 8, 2013, Fiorina gave a keynote address at the Ripon Society’s Legislative and Communications Directors Symposium on Leadership at Mount Vernon, advocating for several issues including simplifying and reforming the federal tax code, promoting the use of business technology in government, and helping small businesses." [19] Doing a search on Ripon's own website does not find the article. Neither does a Google search… only three hits of which two are from Wikipedia itself, and that's from THIS article. The third is a mere interface to this article. If anyone out there knows how this was sourced, please help. But, otherwise, this entire paragraph and section is up for question. Ca.papavero ( talk) 00:00, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
References
Rankings By: Portfolio.com
In all this time, I just realized that this article has somewhat neglected to clearly point out what are Fiorina's current job positions. That really must be stated at the lead, as well as —especially — in that side table with her picture and the "Personal Details." Then, it's very important that we stay on top of that, immediately noting changes. For example, I just clarified that although "In April 2012, Fiorina became chair of Good360, a nonprofit organization in Alexandria, Virginia, which helps companies donate excess merchandise to charities.[97]…." More over, "She maintains that position currently, as seen from the company website page, where it lists Board of Directors." Then, although, I wrote out the sections for Carly Fiorina Enterprises and Fiorina Foundation and Unlocking Potential Project, it must be stressed that these too are current positions. And there's probably more. This also has differentiate with her past positions, most of which I believe that I've vetted, as far as they're include in the article. But, there may be more there, too.
Fiorina's profile from Good360 states "She currently serves as the Chairman of the American Conservative Union Foundation [1], which annually hosts CPAC, and the Chairman of Opportunity International, the largest non-profit micro-finance lender in the world, giving out $6 billion at an average of $150 per loan lifting millions out of poverty around the world. In 2014, Carly launched the Unlocking Potential Project, a new PAC aimed at engaging women voters." Ca.papavero ( talk) 08:32, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
•ACU ANNOUNCES CARLY FIORINA AS NEW CHAIRMAN OF FOUNDATION [2] Ca.papavero ( talk) 10:39, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
•OPPORTUNITY INTERNATIONAL JOINS FORCES WITH CARLY FIORINA’S ONE WOMAN INITIATIVE [3]
NEW SECTION: "4.4 The One Woman Initiative and Opportunity International" as of Thursday 14 May 2014. These are no longer considered "current" positions for Fiorina as of May 2015. In fact, this would be the the anniversary of OWI (just this last Mothers Day); but, she has just resigned from Opportunity International as of this last week. OWI was last known as being under the umbrella of Opportunity International. So, this appears to end her connections to both OWI and Opportunity International. Ca.papavero ( talk) 08:35, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
Looking back at the older talk pages about Fiorina, I realize that there's been lot's of debate about both her status and role at large; whereas, I believe that this may have had some impact on how the sections flow from one to another as it discusses how her career has changed. Currently, they go as follows:
I'm not really sure that her time at both ATT&T, HP and other major companies should be lumped together and considered together as "Education and early career." Perhaps her higher education could be considered one aspect of her life; but, those other jobs should be more appropriately and seriously considered as her "Career as a corporate executive" per se. At that, we're not yet sure she has rested this career path.
I don't think the next passage should be titled "After HP." That's rather like an understatement to what she's actually doing. Aside from her actual positions therein, we don't necessarily know how long she's had such relationships with these entities, as well as that she may well still maintain some of these positions and relationships, ongoing. Maybe this should say something like "(Other) organizational board and chair positions." It's not atypical for any high-level CEO, at one point later in their life, to turn away from direct, principle administrative roles; but, nevertheless continue advising and having other contributions on boards, committees and so on.
From there, her role from "Media career" to "Politics" to Senate Candidacy" to "Advocacy and even "Potential 2016 Presidential run" blurs. Improvements to the overall timeline of her works have been made within this article; but, it in some ways, her role in each of these passages is not altogether definable, discernible or even differentiating. Partly, this is Fiorina's own public relations creation; but, perhaps, this article needs to make better sense of these considerations and her work, regardless. Is she a media spokesperson, politician, politico, pundit, advocate, political advisor? We're not entirely sure, perhaps, but we should try to better convey her career and work evolution, instead of falling into what's a somewhat a choppy presentation. Ca.papavero ( talk) 05:35, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
Follow-up re. UP-Project and its launch date(s): I did a Whois search and found that it clarified things, such as differences between the formation of the LLC and its website. This also provided insight to domain name registration, administration; plus, Fiorina's other associated persons and entities (e.g. Sadler, Koch Industries, etc.)
TABLE OF CONTENTS modifications and timeline as of Friday 8 May 2015:
This change primarily moves disputed claims for "Most Powerful Woman" v. "Worst CEO" out from the section for Business Career and to that of Transition of career and public persona. This highlights the dispute in regards to her public persona within one section of the article, instead of having it scattered continuously throughout…. that's rather haphazardly, tirelessly going tit-for-tat. Ca.papavero ( talk) 07:39, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
UPDATE: For comparison to the above, more changes have occurred as of Sunday 10 May 2015. The table of contents now appears as the following:
The changes are also being made in the lead section, not a part of this above Table of Contents. Ca.papavero ( talk) 20:51, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
:I've vetted many of Fiorina's "other organizational designations," now re-titled under the sub-header "Other organizational involvement." It appears that she had received many of these designations just after her exit from HP and sometime before her run for U.S. Senator, whereas she may have only served for a year or so. That's either before resigning or if that organization merged, went out business and so on. I think the additional notations therein this paragraph that lists all these designations, also now shows her role and participation therein. I believe it should remain as such, because this was really the transitional point of her career and shows her involvement at those organizations. At one point, just after leaving HP, this became part of her remaining credentials, per se. So, what's been added into that paragraph is a further examination thereof. And I'm not quite done yet. Ca.papavero ( talk) 21:14, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
Looking at Fiorina's overall career and her crossing over into many areas, such as business, academia, non-profits and politics; it may be helpful to separate these "Other involvements" out accordingly, such as by paragraph. Right now, it reads sort of by timeline; and its jumping in and out along these types of organizations. I think it might be more sensible to have them sectioned out; especially as readers consider her various transitions, as well as her areas of expertise and involvement. It would highlight this better, as well as be consistent with the overall theme of the article that mimics her life. Its also like comparing apples to apples, oranges to oranges and so on. Ca.papavero ( talk) 09:04, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
In an article about someone who is expected to announce candidacy for the presidency on Monday, there is no list whatsoever of her position on issues. Where does she stand on gay marriage, the wars in Iraq, Afghanistan and Syria, immigration, the tax code, the race riots in Ferguson and Baltimore? We don't know a thing about her stand on any of those important issues of the day from this article. Somebody needs to get to work. 68.206.142.96 ( talk) 23:37, 2 May 2015 (UTC)
68.206.142.96 ( talk) 23:36, 2 May 2015 (UTC)
References
EXPANDING: I've added a few of her "viewpoints" to this section, although it could be further developed. The citations that I provided (namely two of them), actually include many of her positions. So, it can be further elucidated from those citations. PBS NewsHour and NY Times have covered it well; but, there's further insight to be appreciated by other publications. Ca.papavero ( talk) 08:52, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
In the section on Fiorina's tenure at HP, the third paragraph states that her announcement of the merger with Compaq occurred in September 2001. Reading the subsection below that ("Forced resignation"), I get the impression that she was forced out as CEO no later than about March 2001. If I'm reading those two bits incorrectly, I think they need to be clarified. If I'm not, a correction is in order.
Smontanaro ( talk) 18:25, 4 May 2015 (UTC)
AGAIN: Details about corporate mergers and acquisitions is not simply tangential information or superfluous. And yet, overzealous editing has wiped this out, or understated this phenomenon. Such information shows how her tenure ended, as well as perhaps her role and extent in those companies or organizations. Fiorina was part of three organizations (of which I know) that were either merged, acquired, downsized or went out of business: Revolution Health Group, Cybertrust and even her own project with USAID, The One Woman Initiative. And then, there's the entire ordeal with HP's merger and acquisition of Compaq, to which she was not simply a board member, but CEO. So, indeed these are important details of her career, as they highlight a pattern and role. Then, too, it also should not be implied or allowed to assume that her role with these organizations is still open, since she has either resigned or the company is no longer in business. As it currently stands, that's not readily apparent. That's in addition to her questionable role as CEO of Fiorina and Enterprises and her Foundation. Originally, this article claimed that she was on several boards, leaving it open to assume that they were all active roles… which I've established that they are not. Readers should have an easy and discernible understanding of both her CURRENT and PAST associations. Further, Fiorina is not immune to the controversies with layoffs ( downsizing), restructuring, severance package, etc. It is not a subjective conclusion to realize that Fiorina is within that greater debate, as can be evidenced from citations already inside this article, but not elucidated. Many more citations can be added to the point, including the entire Demon Sheep and Demon Sheep II response, during her 2010 senatorial campaign. [1] From that time, "downsizing" had become a very hot buzzword in the American lexicon of politics, surpassing the understated "layoffs." And Fiorina was put at the center of that, along with other people. This entire debate is still going on today, especially in California, even with regards to government itself; i.e., including furloughs, understaffing, backfilling, pension reform and on and on. And that mostly came forth from the terms of Governors Davis, to Schwarzenegger to Brown. If you know anything about California's turmoil and politics over the last 15 plus years and forward, this discussion is not going away. In fact, it's even at the local level, in the state's biggest cities like San Jose, Los Angeles and San Diego. [2] [3] And finally, all of this is also subject to transparency, as Fiorina and other politicians make accusations about campaign contributions, Super PACs, conflicts of interest and the overall issue with corporate personhood and Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission; plus, Freedom of association. [4] [5] Ca.papavero ( talk) 21:03, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
References
This article has received considerable development over the last month, including much work of my own. At this point, there's still more that could be improved; but, I would like to see a assessment in terms of overall quality and importance ranking; which is aside from a peer review with more recommendations. I think this needs to be done in a number of areas, including projects for biography, conservatism, and namely, the 2016 Presidential election. Presently, I am looking at this article relative to others of similar kind. Ca.papavero ( talk) 22:06, 15 May 2015 (UTC)
This section priorly titled "Response to media rankings and notable critiques" Ca.papavero ( talk) 23:12, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
I've made a number of changes that I believe relate to some important editing matters:
Thanks for adding-in further name references for continuing quotations or claims, of which citation was already made. It's a lot of work and technicality. I appreciate the help cleaning it up. Ca.papavero ( talk) 19:08, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
I noticed that some of the titles have changed and last paragraphs have been merged. Ca.papavero ( talk) 19:08, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
Wiped section (originally ¶5), including interview with Couric and Greta Van Susteren |
---|
Responding to criticisms in interviews with Katie Couric [1] and Greta Van Susteren, [2] Fiorina implied there has been a double standard when comparing herself to others including Hillary Clinton. She "dismissed the suggestion that [Clinton's] serving in such roles as U.S. senator and secretary of state are accomplishments...", saying “In the world that I come from, a title’s just a title…. Why are we so impressed with political titles? A senator is a title. Secretary of state is a title. What has anyone accomplished with their title?” [1] |
I have indeed addressed this already, as well as that when you watch the video with Couric, Fiorina is in fact asked "what's your reaction" about both the http://www.carlyfiorina.org website, in addition to the layoffs and her performance at HP. That occurs from minutes 3:25 and forward in the video (as its included with the Couric citation). She not only answers the question, but re-frames it… whether we like her re-framing or not. And that's the point being made in the article. This has been her reply: pointing out what Fiorina believes is a double standard, then not only disagreeing with the question, but reframing it and going on to what she feels are her accomplishments and so on. As I've said, it's one of her earliest examples, to which we point out later in the article, similar responses at CPAC, Good Morning America and in other articles and interviews. I think that's relevant to include, instead of constantly wiping Fiorina's own particular address on the topic. Just because someone doe not like how she's answered the question, doesn't discount her address. Ca.papavero ( talk) 23:20, 16 May 2015 (UTC)
BTW… I've also notice how editors here have reversed the presentation dealing with Fiorina's "Praise and criticism." As the article now reads, collaborative RANKINGS that are not clear about their methodology, have the same weight and and comparison of yet another ranking by other sources, that could have a completely different methodology, and yet also still no transparency. At that, they're lumped together with the opinions of other news sources and writers, that are not necessarily basing their perspective on "straight news," aside from rankings. They're also lumped together with the opinions of various pundits, industry analysts and so on…. as if they're all the same thing. And this shows that either you don't really comprehend the nature of different sources, or you're being incredibly hypocritical and maybe even deceitful. Still, many of you have the audacity to question the quality and reliability of sources, while you overlook things like this. But, then, official records, they're considered "unreliable." What's more hypocritical than that? This is a total sham and masquerade. In fact, you have even wiped out Fiorina's own replies, subjecting the entire premise of that section, if not the entirety of this article, on your own personal POV. Time and again. When Fiorina and other news sources challenge the lead-in and biases of a question, a ranking or claim, you wipe that out, or don't acknowledge it. That's POV. Its become a very clever game of citing so-called WP guidelines, while framing the entire discussion, as well as the article itself. Ca.papavero ( talk) 07:11, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | ← | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | Archive 6 | Archive 7 | Archive 8 | → | Archive 10 |
There's a number of citations in this article that need to be verified, improved and so on. Please include and note them here, as they are found.
• In the section titled Carly Fiorina Enterprises and Fiorina Foundation; controversy the first sentence makes non-verified claim: "Fiorina began describing herself as Chair and CEO of Carly Fiorina Enterprises where, according to her political campaign Facebook page, she is 'bringing her unique perspective and experience to bear on the challenging issues of our world, championing economic growth and empowerment for a more prosperous and secure world'.[81][verification needed]." Yet, nowhere at Fiorina's Facebook Page can this quotation be found, nor is it traceable. At that, I wouldn't exactly call a Facebook Page a stable or reliable source. If this cannot be verified, I would suggest removing it from the article. In fact, the paragraph could probably stand without such an introduction; if then to re-phrase it to reflect the rest of the contents. The content from the SF Chronicle was added later as a separate thought, independent from this Facebook claim. It's actually a stronger and more substantial reference to the claims. So, the Facebook mention may not be necessary. Otherwise, find another complimentary and similar reference with this same point made by the Chronicle. Ca.papavero ( talk) 09:51, 7 May 2015 (UTC)
• In the lead section, mentioning "worst CEO" claim: The Guardian and Observer were removed, because of overkill. The Guardian citation [1] redundantly refers to the other sources already cited; i.e., CBS, USA Today, Portfolio; whereas, its not an original source for this claim. Remove Observer citation [2], also because of overkill; plus, that it redundantly quotes the other sources already cited (CBS, USA Today, Portfolio). Ca.papavero ( talk) 19:26, 7 May 2015 (UTC) Also remove ref name CNBC; no citation found. Ca.papavero ( talk) 21:16, 7 May 2015 (UTC)
• In the section AT&T and Lucent, Remove link rot, no proper citation available, not verifiable; s/b from allbusiness.com, re. key words "human resources", "employee development", "leadership"; noted dead link as of date April 2015 [3]
• Avoid duplication! Sellers & Daniels (Fortune, October 1998) was added twice! [4] Please be sure to see if the reference is already appearing in the article... especially when its appears in string of citations, i.e., appearing again right next to the same. It doesn't get more obvious than that.
•The section of the article under AT&T and Lucent makes a claim with many superfluous citations (overkill): "In 1998, Fortune magazine named Fiorina the 'most powerful woman in business' in its inaugural listing, and she was included in the Time 100 in 2004 and remained in the Fortune listing throughout her tenure at HP. She was #10 on the Forbes list of The World's 100 Most Powerful Women for 2004.[25][26][27][28][29][30]" Those six citations are copied here: [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] [10]
•In the lead paragraphs of the article, a sentence states "Since then, she has been described by some publications (and business scholar Jeffrey Sonnenfeld) as one of the worst tech CEOs of all time…" There's two citation from CBS for this claim; whereas, only one is necessary coming from this same source. This second, titled "Five things to know about Carly Fiorina" is merely a re-hash of things past, a retrospective from a year 2015 perspective, as she plans to run for President. [12] Ca.papavero ( talk) 05:17, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
•Broken citation and unverified claim in section Hewlett-Packard (HP): "In 2001, Fiorina was named one of the thirty most powerful women in America by Forbes magazine." [13] Removed, because this was not properly cited (link rot) and its not recoverable. This is now an unknown source. Already said elsewhere…overkill. Ca.papavero ( talk) 06:17, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
• An infographic added as of 8 May 2015 by Bueller 007
is not verifiable and does not appear to be a reliable source either. Clicking the link, it claims to be from Peter L Salmon - Own work Previously published: http://hpstockprice.com. Does Bueller have permission for this infographic? Clicking the link, it cannot be found on the internet. There's no transparent methodology to this presentation, nor proof that permission was give by HP to use their logos, etc. Ca.papavero ( talk) 08:57, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
•Bare URL added as of 8 May 2015 by Bueller 007: Found under section titled Forced resignation from HP. [14]
![]() |
Ca.papavero ( talk) 10:42, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
•In section
Personal transition, via other organizational designations: A few questionable citations. It's said "She is an Honorary Fellow of the
London Business School." A citation from HP's executive profiles webpage no longer includes Fiorina; so, the this is not verifiable, unless can be found elsewhere on the site.
[15]
Ca.papavero (
talk)
21:26, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
•In the section about Criticism and Praise, advice is needed for how to treat a citation that mentions Portfolio.com [18]"(then a division of Condé Nast) have ranked Fiorina as one of the worst American (or tech) CEOs of all time." This is published by CNBC, which is a division of NBC Universal, but its apparently compiled or originally from Portfolio.com, which was then a division of Conde Nast… which in turn has merged into another company since then. Do you think this is appropriately attributed and referenced, or do you have a better recommendation as how to treat it? This is probably one of the more complex one's I've seen. As the citation is now written, all parties are mentioned; but, I'm not sure exactly the right way. Maybe its okay, maybe it could be better. Ca.papavero ( talk) 20:08, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
•In the section about Advocate at large, there's a broken citation for the sentence that reads "On February 8, 2013, Fiorina gave a keynote address at the Ripon Society’s Legislative and Communications Directors Symposium on Leadership at Mount Vernon, advocating for several issues including simplifying and reforming the federal tax code, promoting the use of business technology in government, and helping small businesses." [19] Doing a search on Ripon's own website does not find the article. Neither does a Google search… only three hits of which two are from Wikipedia itself, and that's from THIS article. The third is a mere interface to this article. If anyone out there knows how this was sourced, please help. But, otherwise, this entire paragraph and section is up for question. Ca.papavero ( talk) 00:00, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
References
Rankings By: Portfolio.com
In all this time, I just realized that this article has somewhat neglected to clearly point out what are Fiorina's current job positions. That really must be stated at the lead, as well as —especially — in that side table with her picture and the "Personal Details." Then, it's very important that we stay on top of that, immediately noting changes. For example, I just clarified that although "In April 2012, Fiorina became chair of Good360, a nonprofit organization in Alexandria, Virginia, which helps companies donate excess merchandise to charities.[97]…." More over, "She maintains that position currently, as seen from the company website page, where it lists Board of Directors." Then, although, I wrote out the sections for Carly Fiorina Enterprises and Fiorina Foundation and Unlocking Potential Project, it must be stressed that these too are current positions. And there's probably more. This also has differentiate with her past positions, most of which I believe that I've vetted, as far as they're include in the article. But, there may be more there, too.
Fiorina's profile from Good360 states "She currently serves as the Chairman of the American Conservative Union Foundation [1], which annually hosts CPAC, and the Chairman of Opportunity International, the largest non-profit micro-finance lender in the world, giving out $6 billion at an average of $150 per loan lifting millions out of poverty around the world. In 2014, Carly launched the Unlocking Potential Project, a new PAC aimed at engaging women voters." Ca.papavero ( talk) 08:32, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
•ACU ANNOUNCES CARLY FIORINA AS NEW CHAIRMAN OF FOUNDATION [2] Ca.papavero ( talk) 10:39, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
•OPPORTUNITY INTERNATIONAL JOINS FORCES WITH CARLY FIORINA’S ONE WOMAN INITIATIVE [3]
NEW SECTION: "4.4 The One Woman Initiative and Opportunity International" as of Thursday 14 May 2014. These are no longer considered "current" positions for Fiorina as of May 2015. In fact, this would be the the anniversary of OWI (just this last Mothers Day); but, she has just resigned from Opportunity International as of this last week. OWI was last known as being under the umbrella of Opportunity International. So, this appears to end her connections to both OWI and Opportunity International. Ca.papavero ( talk) 08:35, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
Looking back at the older talk pages about Fiorina, I realize that there's been lot's of debate about both her status and role at large; whereas, I believe that this may have had some impact on how the sections flow from one to another as it discusses how her career has changed. Currently, they go as follows:
I'm not really sure that her time at both ATT&T, HP and other major companies should be lumped together and considered together as "Education and early career." Perhaps her higher education could be considered one aspect of her life; but, those other jobs should be more appropriately and seriously considered as her "Career as a corporate executive" per se. At that, we're not yet sure she has rested this career path.
I don't think the next passage should be titled "After HP." That's rather like an understatement to what she's actually doing. Aside from her actual positions therein, we don't necessarily know how long she's had such relationships with these entities, as well as that she may well still maintain some of these positions and relationships, ongoing. Maybe this should say something like "(Other) organizational board and chair positions." It's not atypical for any high-level CEO, at one point later in their life, to turn away from direct, principle administrative roles; but, nevertheless continue advising and having other contributions on boards, committees and so on.
From there, her role from "Media career" to "Politics" to Senate Candidacy" to "Advocacy and even "Potential 2016 Presidential run" blurs. Improvements to the overall timeline of her works have been made within this article; but, it in some ways, her role in each of these passages is not altogether definable, discernible or even differentiating. Partly, this is Fiorina's own public relations creation; but, perhaps, this article needs to make better sense of these considerations and her work, regardless. Is she a media spokesperson, politician, politico, pundit, advocate, political advisor? We're not entirely sure, perhaps, but we should try to better convey her career and work evolution, instead of falling into what's a somewhat a choppy presentation. Ca.papavero ( talk) 05:35, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
Follow-up re. UP-Project and its launch date(s): I did a Whois search and found that it clarified things, such as differences between the formation of the LLC and its website. This also provided insight to domain name registration, administration; plus, Fiorina's other associated persons and entities (e.g. Sadler, Koch Industries, etc.)
TABLE OF CONTENTS modifications and timeline as of Friday 8 May 2015:
This change primarily moves disputed claims for "Most Powerful Woman" v. "Worst CEO" out from the section for Business Career and to that of Transition of career and public persona. This highlights the dispute in regards to her public persona within one section of the article, instead of having it scattered continuously throughout…. that's rather haphazardly, tirelessly going tit-for-tat. Ca.papavero ( talk) 07:39, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
UPDATE: For comparison to the above, more changes have occurred as of Sunday 10 May 2015. The table of contents now appears as the following:
The changes are also being made in the lead section, not a part of this above Table of Contents. Ca.papavero ( talk) 20:51, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
:I've vetted many of Fiorina's "other organizational designations," now re-titled under the sub-header "Other organizational involvement." It appears that she had received many of these designations just after her exit from HP and sometime before her run for U.S. Senator, whereas she may have only served for a year or so. That's either before resigning or if that organization merged, went out business and so on. I think the additional notations therein this paragraph that lists all these designations, also now shows her role and participation therein. I believe it should remain as such, because this was really the transitional point of her career and shows her involvement at those organizations. At one point, just after leaving HP, this became part of her remaining credentials, per se. So, what's been added into that paragraph is a further examination thereof. And I'm not quite done yet. Ca.papavero ( talk) 21:14, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
Looking at Fiorina's overall career and her crossing over into many areas, such as business, academia, non-profits and politics; it may be helpful to separate these "Other involvements" out accordingly, such as by paragraph. Right now, it reads sort of by timeline; and its jumping in and out along these types of organizations. I think it might be more sensible to have them sectioned out; especially as readers consider her various transitions, as well as her areas of expertise and involvement. It would highlight this better, as well as be consistent with the overall theme of the article that mimics her life. Its also like comparing apples to apples, oranges to oranges and so on. Ca.papavero ( talk) 09:04, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
In an article about someone who is expected to announce candidacy for the presidency on Monday, there is no list whatsoever of her position on issues. Where does she stand on gay marriage, the wars in Iraq, Afghanistan and Syria, immigration, the tax code, the race riots in Ferguson and Baltimore? We don't know a thing about her stand on any of those important issues of the day from this article. Somebody needs to get to work. 68.206.142.96 ( talk) 23:37, 2 May 2015 (UTC)
68.206.142.96 ( talk) 23:36, 2 May 2015 (UTC)
References
EXPANDING: I've added a few of her "viewpoints" to this section, although it could be further developed. The citations that I provided (namely two of them), actually include many of her positions. So, it can be further elucidated from those citations. PBS NewsHour and NY Times have covered it well; but, there's further insight to be appreciated by other publications. Ca.papavero ( talk) 08:52, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
In the section on Fiorina's tenure at HP, the third paragraph states that her announcement of the merger with Compaq occurred in September 2001. Reading the subsection below that ("Forced resignation"), I get the impression that she was forced out as CEO no later than about March 2001. If I'm reading those two bits incorrectly, I think they need to be clarified. If I'm not, a correction is in order.
Smontanaro ( talk) 18:25, 4 May 2015 (UTC)
AGAIN: Details about corporate mergers and acquisitions is not simply tangential information or superfluous. And yet, overzealous editing has wiped this out, or understated this phenomenon. Such information shows how her tenure ended, as well as perhaps her role and extent in those companies or organizations. Fiorina was part of three organizations (of which I know) that were either merged, acquired, downsized or went out of business: Revolution Health Group, Cybertrust and even her own project with USAID, The One Woman Initiative. And then, there's the entire ordeal with HP's merger and acquisition of Compaq, to which she was not simply a board member, but CEO. So, indeed these are important details of her career, as they highlight a pattern and role. Then, too, it also should not be implied or allowed to assume that her role with these organizations is still open, since she has either resigned or the company is no longer in business. As it currently stands, that's not readily apparent. That's in addition to her questionable role as CEO of Fiorina and Enterprises and her Foundation. Originally, this article claimed that she was on several boards, leaving it open to assume that they were all active roles… which I've established that they are not. Readers should have an easy and discernible understanding of both her CURRENT and PAST associations. Further, Fiorina is not immune to the controversies with layoffs ( downsizing), restructuring, severance package, etc. It is not a subjective conclusion to realize that Fiorina is within that greater debate, as can be evidenced from citations already inside this article, but not elucidated. Many more citations can be added to the point, including the entire Demon Sheep and Demon Sheep II response, during her 2010 senatorial campaign. [1] From that time, "downsizing" had become a very hot buzzword in the American lexicon of politics, surpassing the understated "layoffs." And Fiorina was put at the center of that, along with other people. This entire debate is still going on today, especially in California, even with regards to government itself; i.e., including furloughs, understaffing, backfilling, pension reform and on and on. And that mostly came forth from the terms of Governors Davis, to Schwarzenegger to Brown. If you know anything about California's turmoil and politics over the last 15 plus years and forward, this discussion is not going away. In fact, it's even at the local level, in the state's biggest cities like San Jose, Los Angeles and San Diego. [2] [3] And finally, all of this is also subject to transparency, as Fiorina and other politicians make accusations about campaign contributions, Super PACs, conflicts of interest and the overall issue with corporate personhood and Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission; plus, Freedom of association. [4] [5] Ca.papavero ( talk) 21:03, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
References
This article has received considerable development over the last month, including much work of my own. At this point, there's still more that could be improved; but, I would like to see a assessment in terms of overall quality and importance ranking; which is aside from a peer review with more recommendations. I think this needs to be done in a number of areas, including projects for biography, conservatism, and namely, the 2016 Presidential election. Presently, I am looking at this article relative to others of similar kind. Ca.papavero ( talk) 22:06, 15 May 2015 (UTC)
This section priorly titled "Response to media rankings and notable critiques" Ca.papavero ( talk) 23:12, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
I've made a number of changes that I believe relate to some important editing matters:
Thanks for adding-in further name references for continuing quotations or claims, of which citation was already made. It's a lot of work and technicality. I appreciate the help cleaning it up. Ca.papavero ( talk) 19:08, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
I noticed that some of the titles have changed and last paragraphs have been merged. Ca.papavero ( talk) 19:08, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
Wiped section (originally ¶5), including interview with Couric and Greta Van Susteren |
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Responding to criticisms in interviews with Katie Couric [1] and Greta Van Susteren, [2] Fiorina implied there has been a double standard when comparing herself to others including Hillary Clinton. She "dismissed the suggestion that [Clinton's] serving in such roles as U.S. senator and secretary of state are accomplishments...", saying “In the world that I come from, a title’s just a title…. Why are we so impressed with political titles? A senator is a title. Secretary of state is a title. What has anyone accomplished with their title?” [1] |
I have indeed addressed this already, as well as that when you watch the video with Couric, Fiorina is in fact asked "what's your reaction" about both the http://www.carlyfiorina.org website, in addition to the layoffs and her performance at HP. That occurs from minutes 3:25 and forward in the video (as its included with the Couric citation). She not only answers the question, but re-frames it… whether we like her re-framing or not. And that's the point being made in the article. This has been her reply: pointing out what Fiorina believes is a double standard, then not only disagreeing with the question, but reframing it and going on to what she feels are her accomplishments and so on. As I've said, it's one of her earliest examples, to which we point out later in the article, similar responses at CPAC, Good Morning America and in other articles and interviews. I think that's relevant to include, instead of constantly wiping Fiorina's own particular address on the topic. Just because someone doe not like how she's answered the question, doesn't discount her address. Ca.papavero ( talk) 23:20, 16 May 2015 (UTC)
BTW… I've also notice how editors here have reversed the presentation dealing with Fiorina's "Praise and criticism." As the article now reads, collaborative RANKINGS that are not clear about their methodology, have the same weight and and comparison of yet another ranking by other sources, that could have a completely different methodology, and yet also still no transparency. At that, they're lumped together with the opinions of other news sources and writers, that are not necessarily basing their perspective on "straight news," aside from rankings. They're also lumped together with the opinions of various pundits, industry analysts and so on…. as if they're all the same thing. And this shows that either you don't really comprehend the nature of different sources, or you're being incredibly hypocritical and maybe even deceitful. Still, many of you have the audacity to question the quality and reliability of sources, while you overlook things like this. But, then, official records, they're considered "unreliable." What's more hypocritical than that? This is a total sham and masquerade. In fact, you have even wiped out Fiorina's own replies, subjecting the entire premise of that section, if not the entirety of this article, on your own personal POV. Time and again. When Fiorina and other news sources challenge the lead-in and biases of a question, a ranking or claim, you wipe that out, or don't acknowledge it. That's POV. Its become a very clever game of citing so-called WP guidelines, while framing the entire discussion, as well as the article itself. Ca.papavero ( talk) 07:11, 18 May 2015 (UTC)