![]() | Arrest of Carles Puigdemont in Italy was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 17 November 2023 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Carles Puigdemont. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here. |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Carles Puigdemont article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives:
Index,
1,
2,
3,
4,
5,
6,
7,
8,
9,
10Auto-archiving period: 30 days
![]() |
![]() | The subject of this article is controversial and content may be in dispute. When updating the article, be bold, but not reckless. Feel free to try to improve the article, but don't take it personally if your changes are reversed; instead, come here to the talk page to discuss them. Content must be written from a neutral point of view. Include citations when adding content and consider tagging or removing unsourced information. |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
![]() | This page is about an active politician who is running for office or has recently run for office, is in office and campaigning for re-election, or is involved in some current political conflict or controversy. Because of this, this article is at increased risk of biased editing, talk-page trolling, and simple vandalism. |
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() |
Daily pageviews of this article
A graph should have been displayed here but
graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at
pageviews.wmcloud.org |
![]() | This article contains a translation of Carles Puigdemont i Casamajó from ca.wikipedia. ( 698995403 et seq.) |
I'm pinning two RfCs at the top in the hope that it informs editors about current consensus.
It seems from the reference given and subsequently removed, https://www.cope.es/actualidad/espana/noticias/puigdemont-inicia-los-tramites-para-recoger-acta-eurodiputado-parlamento-europeo-20191220_578946 that as of 20 December 2019, Puigdemont has been accepted as a Spanish MEP, representing the Junts per Catalunya alliance. I'm giving a general caution to editors not to remove properly sourced content, and I'll invite Impru20 to explain why they removed the content and the reference, rather than simply amending any perceived errors.
In the UK, MEPs have regional constituencies, but I can't find a source that suggests the same is true in Spain, and therefore it seems likely that Puigdemont may not necessarily represent Catalonia as an MEP. However he clearly is a representative of the alliance that sponsored his candidacy, Junts per Catalunya. To avoid the arguments, I'm going to suggest the addition of Puigdemont's office as MEP to the infobox using the following:
| office6 = Spanish member of the [[European Parliament]] representing [[Junts per Catalunya]] | term_start6 = 20 December 2019<ref>{{cite news |title=Puigdemont inicia los trámites para recoger su acta de eurodiputado en el Parlamento Europeo |url=https://www.cope.es/actualidad/espana/noticias/puigdemont-recoge-acta-eurodiputado-parlamento-europeo-20191220_578946 |work=[[Cope]] |date=22 December 2019 |lang=es}}</ref>
I don't know what convention the editors here prefer: either (1) to put the offices in some sort of chronological order; or (2) put current offices at the top, and expired offices beneath. Either way, I'm sure some consensus can be found which simply involves renumbering the office parameters.
I hope that consensus can be found for a suitable wording, as a politician's current office is clearly a key fact in their biography, and should be included per WP:DUE. It is already present in the body of the article. -- RexxS ( talk) 18:33, 22 December 2019 (UTC)
Su objetivo es iniciar los trámites necesarios para recibir las credenciales de eurodiputados, un procedimiento que, según han explicado fuentes parlamentarias a Europa Press "no concluirá este viernes, sino en enero" [...] Los datos serán verificados por la comisión europarlamentaria de Asuntos Jurídicos y si se concluye el proceso en los plazos habituales tendrán su acreditación definitiva en enero, lo que les permitiría ocupar su escaño en el pleno de la Eurocámara que arrancará el 13 de enero en Estrasburgo (Francia).
if his constituency is all of SpainIndeed it is. The Organic Law 1/1987, 2 April, for the modification of the Organic Law 5/1985, 19 June, for the General Electoral Regime, for the regulation of the elections to the European Parliament establishes the electoral "circunscripción" (constituency) to be the whole Spanish territory. But that is already obvious from the reading of any article about the elections.
Perhaps Asqueladd can explain why that convention was adopted?I haven't been here since the dawn of time, I can only speculate: among other reasons possibly because of the haphazard nature of electoral coalitions/electoral lists, often not made to last longer than the electoral process itself. Other reason is possibly because of the fact that the European Parliament operates on a basic level in terms of political groups (akin to parliamentary groups), not parties. Other possible reason is the very notion of imperative mandate, banned in most parliamentary systems and which precludes legislators' vote from having any other due allegiance (in sort of rights) than themselves. Do you think they are already enough reasons?--Asqueladd ( talk) 02:59, 23 December 2019 (UTC)
but that would then undercut your assertion that my suggestion was "absurd", wouldn't it?You have begged me not to call other editors suggestions to move forward "absurd"... So, well, unless you are playing some passive-agressive engagement behaviour, don't make me answer that question, because, guess what, I still think it is
Perhaps Asqueladd can explain...) rather than to learn about something was a catty way of taking a jibe at someone because they deemed your proposal "absurd" while making a case for the inclusion of the party/ whatnot in the infobox, to be honest I think you are wasting your time.--Asqueladd ( talk) 03:28, 23 December 2019 (UTC)
let's put it another wayCertainly a much better way. :) I'll strike that
"unacceptable behaviour"worthy of heavy sanctions and I hope you may take valuable information about the convenience of being straightforward. Cheers!--Asqueladd ( talk) 04:20, 23 December 2019 (UTC)
On 20 December 2019, Puigdemont was accredited as a MEP after a ruling from the European Court of Justice said that he was permitted to take on his role as MEP.. The ruling by the ECJ in answer to the query of the Supreme Court of Spain concerned only the issue of the status of Oriol Junqueras (and AFAIK it did not mention Puigdemont nor Comín). The legal services of the EP et. al. just reacted after that regarding the case of the later elected MEPs.--Asqueladd ( talk) 04:55, 23 December 2019 (UTC)
I don't think this category should be added. He's not obviously described (except by himself) as such in reliable sources, and he's not even called apolitical prisoner at any point in this article. Unbh ( talk) 11:15, 24 January 2022 (UTC)
I don't think the category should be added either for a reason as simple as
WP:CATV: the only mention in the article of him being a political prisoner is actually contradictory: On 23 February 2018, Puigdemont's portrait was ordered to be removed from Santiago Sierra's “Contemporary Spanish Political Prisoners” exhibition in Madrid.
I'll proceed to remove the category for the same reason. --
NoonIcarus (
talk)
21:02, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
The Wikipedia manual of style references a RfC on use of Spanish regional identity in biography leads which states [...] if sources generally use a certain identity when referring to someone, and it is clear that the person self-identifies with that identity, to use that identity".
Why then is he introduced as a "Spanish politician and journalist", when according to the rule it should be a "Catalan politician and journalist"?
Kind regards, 134.184.232.77 ( talk) 14:39, 19 January 2024 (UTC)
![]() | Arrest of Carles Puigdemont in Italy was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 17 November 2023 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Carles Puigdemont. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here. |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Carles Puigdemont article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives:
Index,
1,
2,
3,
4,
5,
6,
7,
8,
9,
10Auto-archiving period: 30 days
![]() |
![]() | The subject of this article is controversial and content may be in dispute. When updating the article, be bold, but not reckless. Feel free to try to improve the article, but don't take it personally if your changes are reversed; instead, come here to the talk page to discuss them. Content must be written from a neutral point of view. Include citations when adding content and consider tagging or removing unsourced information. |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
![]() | This page is about an active politician who is running for office or has recently run for office, is in office and campaigning for re-election, or is involved in some current political conflict or controversy. Because of this, this article is at increased risk of biased editing, talk-page trolling, and simple vandalism. |
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() |
Daily pageviews of this article
A graph should have been displayed here but
graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at
pageviews.wmcloud.org |
![]() | This article contains a translation of Carles Puigdemont i Casamajó from ca.wikipedia. ( 698995403 et seq.) |
I'm pinning two RfCs at the top in the hope that it informs editors about current consensus.
It seems from the reference given and subsequently removed, https://www.cope.es/actualidad/espana/noticias/puigdemont-inicia-los-tramites-para-recoger-acta-eurodiputado-parlamento-europeo-20191220_578946 that as of 20 December 2019, Puigdemont has been accepted as a Spanish MEP, representing the Junts per Catalunya alliance. I'm giving a general caution to editors not to remove properly sourced content, and I'll invite Impru20 to explain why they removed the content and the reference, rather than simply amending any perceived errors.
In the UK, MEPs have regional constituencies, but I can't find a source that suggests the same is true in Spain, and therefore it seems likely that Puigdemont may not necessarily represent Catalonia as an MEP. However he clearly is a representative of the alliance that sponsored his candidacy, Junts per Catalunya. To avoid the arguments, I'm going to suggest the addition of Puigdemont's office as MEP to the infobox using the following:
| office6 = Spanish member of the [[European Parliament]] representing [[Junts per Catalunya]] | term_start6 = 20 December 2019<ref>{{cite news |title=Puigdemont inicia los trámites para recoger su acta de eurodiputado en el Parlamento Europeo |url=https://www.cope.es/actualidad/espana/noticias/puigdemont-recoge-acta-eurodiputado-parlamento-europeo-20191220_578946 |work=[[Cope]] |date=22 December 2019 |lang=es}}</ref>
I don't know what convention the editors here prefer: either (1) to put the offices in some sort of chronological order; or (2) put current offices at the top, and expired offices beneath. Either way, I'm sure some consensus can be found which simply involves renumbering the office parameters.
I hope that consensus can be found for a suitable wording, as a politician's current office is clearly a key fact in their biography, and should be included per WP:DUE. It is already present in the body of the article. -- RexxS ( talk) 18:33, 22 December 2019 (UTC)
Su objetivo es iniciar los trámites necesarios para recibir las credenciales de eurodiputados, un procedimiento que, según han explicado fuentes parlamentarias a Europa Press "no concluirá este viernes, sino en enero" [...] Los datos serán verificados por la comisión europarlamentaria de Asuntos Jurídicos y si se concluye el proceso en los plazos habituales tendrán su acreditación definitiva en enero, lo que les permitiría ocupar su escaño en el pleno de la Eurocámara que arrancará el 13 de enero en Estrasburgo (Francia).
if his constituency is all of SpainIndeed it is. The Organic Law 1/1987, 2 April, for the modification of the Organic Law 5/1985, 19 June, for the General Electoral Regime, for the regulation of the elections to the European Parliament establishes the electoral "circunscripción" (constituency) to be the whole Spanish territory. But that is already obvious from the reading of any article about the elections.
Perhaps Asqueladd can explain why that convention was adopted?I haven't been here since the dawn of time, I can only speculate: among other reasons possibly because of the haphazard nature of electoral coalitions/electoral lists, often not made to last longer than the electoral process itself. Other reason is possibly because of the fact that the European Parliament operates on a basic level in terms of political groups (akin to parliamentary groups), not parties. Other possible reason is the very notion of imperative mandate, banned in most parliamentary systems and which precludes legislators' vote from having any other due allegiance (in sort of rights) than themselves. Do you think they are already enough reasons?--Asqueladd ( talk) 02:59, 23 December 2019 (UTC)
but that would then undercut your assertion that my suggestion was "absurd", wouldn't it?You have begged me not to call other editors suggestions to move forward "absurd"... So, well, unless you are playing some passive-agressive engagement behaviour, don't make me answer that question, because, guess what, I still think it is
Perhaps Asqueladd can explain...) rather than to learn about something was a catty way of taking a jibe at someone because they deemed your proposal "absurd" while making a case for the inclusion of the party/ whatnot in the infobox, to be honest I think you are wasting your time.--Asqueladd ( talk) 03:28, 23 December 2019 (UTC)
let's put it another wayCertainly a much better way. :) I'll strike that
"unacceptable behaviour"worthy of heavy sanctions and I hope you may take valuable information about the convenience of being straightforward. Cheers!--Asqueladd ( talk) 04:20, 23 December 2019 (UTC)
On 20 December 2019, Puigdemont was accredited as a MEP after a ruling from the European Court of Justice said that he was permitted to take on his role as MEP.. The ruling by the ECJ in answer to the query of the Supreme Court of Spain concerned only the issue of the status of Oriol Junqueras (and AFAIK it did not mention Puigdemont nor Comín). The legal services of the EP et. al. just reacted after that regarding the case of the later elected MEPs.--Asqueladd ( talk) 04:55, 23 December 2019 (UTC)
I don't think this category should be added. He's not obviously described (except by himself) as such in reliable sources, and he's not even called apolitical prisoner at any point in this article. Unbh ( talk) 11:15, 24 January 2022 (UTC)
I don't think the category should be added either for a reason as simple as
WP:CATV: the only mention in the article of him being a political prisoner is actually contradictory: On 23 February 2018, Puigdemont's portrait was ordered to be removed from Santiago Sierra's “Contemporary Spanish Political Prisoners” exhibition in Madrid.
I'll proceed to remove the category for the same reason. --
NoonIcarus (
talk)
21:02, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
The Wikipedia manual of style references a RfC on use of Spanish regional identity in biography leads which states [...] if sources generally use a certain identity when referring to someone, and it is clear that the person self-identifies with that identity, to use that identity".
Why then is he introduced as a "Spanish politician and journalist", when according to the rule it should be a "Catalan politician and journalist"?
Kind regards, 134.184.232.77 ( talk) 14:39, 19 January 2024 (UTC)