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I reverted the recent change that suggested there was a neutrality issue. I'm prepared to accept that there might be, but thought it helpful first if we could collectively clarify the issues. One interpretation is clearly that Mwanga wanted to have sex with the pages and then when they refused, out of pique he had them all killed. I suppose that's possible. But a more convincing narrative (supported by the sources) in my view suggests this was a question of authority. Christian missionaries had baptised the pages. Mwanga saw this is a threat to his authority and a risk of colonialisation. Thus he decided to make an example of the pages. The first theory based around pique seems a bit one dimensional.
Contaldo80 (
talk)
09:27, 24 January 2012 (UTC)reply
Looks mostly good, but I edited the wording the passage a bit for wording and style. Does that source even mention the sex bit? It seems altogether more likely that the executions were a power struggle.
Cúchullaint/
c13:47, 24 January 2012 (UTC)reply
The main wording that seems problematic is "It is also likely", since that's a conclusion, and I can't read the source myself to check that since it's not available online. The executions being a question of authority seems plausible to me, and it's possible the sex issue (which could also fit in with the authority issue) might be one reason, if only a minor one. Maybe the paragraph could be reworded to put the new material first.
PaulGS (
talk)
04:15, 27 January 2012 (UTC)reply
I checked it out (btw, Contaldo, in the future please include page numbers. I've added them here). It doesn't mention Charles Lwanga specifically and only obliquely mentions the sex issues, saying that Mwanga's proclivities were a point of conflict between him and the Christians and missionaries, not that the pages' refusal to have sex with him led him to execute Christians. I don't know that this really belongs in this article; it may be more appropriate at
Uganda Martyrs.--
Cúchullaint/
c13:26, 27 January 2012 (UTC)reply
Yes, I must get better at including page numbers. Apologies for that. I'm also reluctant to have too much detail on Mwanga in this article, but I can't see how we can completely leave him out seeing as his actions/views were so central to the death of Lwanga. But agree that we should probably look to put something similar into the
Uganda Martyrs article
Contaldo80 (
talk)
14:39, 27 January 2012 (UTC)reply
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to
join the project and
contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the
documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Africa, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Africa on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.AfricaWikipedia:WikiProject AfricaTemplate:WikiProject AfricaAfrica articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Christianity, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Christianity on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ChristianityWikipedia:WikiProject ChristianityTemplate:WikiProject ChristianityChristianity articles
Charles Lwanga is within the scope of WikiProject Catholicism, an attempt to better organize and improve the quality of information in articles related to the
Catholic Church. For more information, visit the
project page.CatholicismWikipedia:WikiProject CatholicismTemplate:WikiProject CatholicismCatholicism articles
I reverted the recent change that suggested there was a neutrality issue. I'm prepared to accept that there might be, but thought it helpful first if we could collectively clarify the issues. One interpretation is clearly that Mwanga wanted to have sex with the pages and then when they refused, out of pique he had them all killed. I suppose that's possible. But a more convincing narrative (supported by the sources) in my view suggests this was a question of authority. Christian missionaries had baptised the pages. Mwanga saw this is a threat to his authority and a risk of colonialisation. Thus he decided to make an example of the pages. The first theory based around pique seems a bit one dimensional.
Contaldo80 (
talk)
09:27, 24 January 2012 (UTC)reply
Looks mostly good, but I edited the wording the passage a bit for wording and style. Does that source even mention the sex bit? It seems altogether more likely that the executions were a power struggle.
Cúchullaint/
c13:47, 24 January 2012 (UTC)reply
The main wording that seems problematic is "It is also likely", since that's a conclusion, and I can't read the source myself to check that since it's not available online. The executions being a question of authority seems plausible to me, and it's possible the sex issue (which could also fit in with the authority issue) might be one reason, if only a minor one. Maybe the paragraph could be reworded to put the new material first.
PaulGS (
talk)
04:15, 27 January 2012 (UTC)reply
I checked it out (btw, Contaldo, in the future please include page numbers. I've added them here). It doesn't mention Charles Lwanga specifically and only obliquely mentions the sex issues, saying that Mwanga's proclivities were a point of conflict between him and the Christians and missionaries, not that the pages' refusal to have sex with him led him to execute Christians. I don't know that this really belongs in this article; it may be more appropriate at
Uganda Martyrs.--
Cúchullaint/
c13:26, 27 January 2012 (UTC)reply
Yes, I must get better at including page numbers. Apologies for that. I'm also reluctant to have too much detail on Mwanga in this article, but I can't see how we can completely leave him out seeing as his actions/views were so central to the death of Lwanga. But agree that we should probably look to put something similar into the
Uganda Martyrs article
Contaldo80 (
talk)
14:39, 27 January 2012 (UTC)reply