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Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | → | Archive 9 |
I just nominated this for good article status. I feel it's thoroughly researched, well organized and reasonably well written. One possible knock against it is its apparent instability, but I feel most of that is the result of vandals and not edit-warring, per se. I'd love to know what the rest of you think.-- The Fat Man Who Never Came Back 18:29, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
Would someone like to hunt down a replacement image that can be loaded into the commons? The current front newspage image has been tagged for speedy deletion so it would be nice to have a still photo from his Leave Britney Alone video showing him crying or otherwise upset as many have come to know him. Benjiboi 00:53, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
It qualifies for fair use, no question; but we need to be sure this is the state of Chris's agony we prefer. There are many other facial expressions to choose from... Ichormosquito 09:15, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
this deal / project with 44 blue has been cancelled - he no longer works with them. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZ_63SZUNyg Apelike 19:33, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
he also kissed his brother!
Speaking of updates, the video has had over 11,000,000 views as of today. 216.182.30.59 23:00, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
I removed the comment: "Psychologist Kevin Leman noted that voyeuristic fascination with celebrity "says that we live in a morally corrupt society", [1] and that Crocker is a good example of the narcissistic look-at-me generation of attention-seeking mongers. [1]" because it appears to violate neutral point of view rules. This article was 1) written by a non-notable psychologist, in 2) the opinion section of 3) a small-city newspaper. The article wasn't even about Crocker, but happened to mention him as an example of what one single individual feels is the moral corruption of our society. To use such an article as a source to bash subtley bash Crocker certianly violates Wikipedia's neutral point of view policies. Aegiswings 04:45, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
My edits were reverted so I'm updating this page to add that this article was even written by a psychologist. It was written by a sport's writer who turned to Leman, a psychologist for his opinions. The content in question wasn't even said by Leman; it was writted by Steve Rivera, the author of the article! Leman never used Crocker as an example, and so attributing the comment to Leman this is just plain wrong. I'm removing it again. Aegiswings 04:45, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
I don't know if this was already brought up, but shouldn't there be a mention in the article that Britney Spears finds Chris Crocker "creepy" and his video "insulting"? There was a story about this about 2 weeks ago. ---- Ðysepsion † Speak your mind 18:58, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
Should this box really be at the bottom? No other lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgendered people have it on their wiki page. I don't think his sexuality is really a big issue at all, which brings me to question why the page starts with "Chris Crocker is an openly gay.... ". His sexuality is a detail which attributes to his being, but he is known more for his "camp persona" which is really irrelevant to his orientation as there are many camp straight people in the entertainment world today - I believe this should be reviewed, opinions? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.151.197.8 ( talk) 19:51, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
{{ editprotected}} Hi, Admins, I'd just like to point out that in the section "Why I'm Gay" towards the bottom, there's a misspelling of the word "erotically". Rather, it is spelled "eroticly". Please make this minor change. ATD 14:20, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
He has new videos on Youtube kissing someone he claims is his brother. True or not, that seems notable -- Gargletheape 17:04, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
Seems dubious at best, anyone heard of this or seen sources for same? Benjiboi 07:40, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
I've heard that the nude photos, which were supposedly taken when Chris Crocker was 17, contain meta data of when they were taken, and that the dates are after he turned 18. Is there any information on this? There seems to be significant interest in these photos, and many people who want to seem or distribute them don't solely because of the assumption that Chris was underage at the time. Considering that Chris already lied by claiming they were fakes, I wouldn't be surprised if he was lying about his age. Herorev 06:37, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
Approaching a month on protection. It's time to get this consensus over with and unprotect the article. -- ALLSTAR echo 04:26, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
{{ editprotect}} Add the following item to the "Parodies" column:
Another spoof was uploaded on Youtube on November 16, 2007 by a user posing as one of Santa Claus's Elves telling the public to "Leave Santa Alone" [2] (in response to the "Santas warned 'ho ho ho' offensive to women" story [3]) Mbrstooge ( talk) 22:06, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
I think we should delete this article, because it contributes little to wikipedia, and it seriously harms it's credibility. [[User:JamalThompson|JamalThompson] talk 23:32, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
This article affects wikipedia's credibility, and chris crocker doesn't have enough merits to be in wikipedia. I suggest deletion.[[User:JamalThompson|JamalThompson] talk 23:32, 29 November 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 148.201.1.111 ( talk)
I agree with Jamal, these kind of articles just don't belong to Wikipedia. (sorry i dunno how to sign)
What?(sorry i dunno how to sign)
Ok. (sorry i dunno how to sign) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.167.12.86 ( talk) 06:49, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
FYI: Chris Crocker is a real guy from Tennessee. There are probably at least a thousand people who remember him on AOL when he was about 13, running an e-zine; I am one of those people. He's always been extremely flamboyant, he's always pushed the envelope, and he has always had a distinct crowd of people either loving him or hating him. If there's one thing I wish I could yell out about this kid, it's that he DEFINITELY isn't another "lonelygirl15." He'd been stirring up controversy on the Internet for several YEARS before he became well known on YouTube. -- laura.kathleen@gmail.com adding sig to unsigned comment User:71.68.41.120
Benjiboy, I just found the information about Chris' real home town and I have a way to prove it, but I am afraid of posting this here and discussin it openly and putting his life and his grandparents and friends in danger so I want to hear what you've got to say about it, since you've been organising his article here. my email is xavierdenis@gmail.com and I would like to tell you how i found out. notice that we could be the ones who tell the world first wherehe actually comes from with this info i've got so i wantyou tothink about it and drop me a line. thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Denisxavier ( talk • contribs) 17:38, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
Is there any reason that this page needs to show this much detail? I'd argue that the only notable output of this individual is an internet meme, and therefore much of the rest of the information here is mere filler. I'd move for a massive cull of this page Blaqkmage 23:04, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
I wonder why Chris warrants an article at all. But I also wonder why he can refer to himself as the "Queen of Complaint" on the basis that complaining is his "religion". Should complaint be his realm or dominion? Or should he be the acolyte/bishop/pope/etc. of complaint? What is his appropriate institutional relationship with complaint? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 222.155.6.180 ( talk) 13:19, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
I don't know if this is important or not, but at about 10:20 PM on Oct. 16, 2007, someone uploaded a video of Chris Crocker on Youtube, and it had him talking to a small audience in Las Vegas, talking about the lawsuit for a very short time, then he performs a striptease to Britney Spears' Gimme More song, or whatever it is. I didn't watch the whole thing, but he showed his bare bottom at least twice, one on camera, one off. When I refeshed it so I could know exactly how long it had been up, it had been taken off due to its terms of use violation (in under 1 hour). Just thought I should put the info up, since I can't edit the page yet. October 16, 2007, 22:56 ( Jeefy69 02:59, 17 October 2007 (UTC))
I don't know if "featured on Maury (TV series)", is worth adding, considering everything else he's popped up in, but here's a link, regardless: [1] Maury's quote is priceless. Ichormosquito 09:39, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
It looks like gay press articles are starting to hit, this one covers etymology of Crocker's name and some extra bio material. Benjiboi 09:17, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
Almost six weeks. Have the disputes really not been resolved yet? Are they that important to justify six weeks' full protection?-- h i s s p a c e r e s e a r c h 16:23, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
(restoring talkcomment)
Looking up the page, it seems like consensus has been reached to me: there is a consensus that the disputed paragraph should not be included in this article. (For what it's worth, I support that view as well.) On the assumption that everyone here is going to stand by that, I'll go and request unprotection. Terraxos ( talk) 17:34, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
FYI, [2] (currently ref 17) also mentions us: "If Wikipedia hasn’t recognized Chris as an official Internet phenomenon, he certainly is now" Jason McHuff ( talk) 13:06, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
I don't see a single mention of his 9/11 video or that video where he kissed his brother.-- Wussycat ( talk) 22:32, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
...that this passes the notability test. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.14.104.198 ( talk) 17:49, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
Its www.myspace.com/chriscrocker NOT www.myspace.com/itschriscrocker
"itschriscrocker" is someone getting people to add them on myspace so they can get more friends. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.149.192.11 ( talk) 22:48, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
{{ editprotected}}
Please replace "www.MySpace.com/ItsChrisCrocker" in the bio box with "www.MySpace.com/ChrisCrocker" Benjiboi
FYI, [3] (currently ref 17) also mentions us: "If Wikipedia hasn’t recognized Chris as an official Internet phenomenon, he certainly is now" Jason McHuff ( talk) 04:31, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
The longer this article gets, the more certain statements (sourced solely to YouTube - which seems to be in conflict with WP:RS) don't seem to belong here. I'm going to work on cleaning it up and trimming off some of the fat so to speak, but if anyone else wants to pitch in or has any advice on how to handle this one, that would be great. To be specific, I'm talking about things like video view count claims (which can be manipulated) that have no other sources to demonstrate notability. Feather Jonah ( talk) 23:43, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
Why, exactly, are we allowing YouTube ANYWHERE on WP as a source, save articles directly addressing it? Looks like way too much content to delete for anyone but a mod. RvLeshrac ( talk) 04:08, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
Are there any more reliable sources available for the singles? Sales links such as iTunes and Amazon download pages seem to serve as promotion rather than verification...and there are some social network announcements in the mix again, which are not solid enough to verify that these singles were actually released. Feather Jonah ( talk) 02:43, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from: http://chris-crocker.org/selected-videography/ (content added here. Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.) For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. Moonriddengirl (talk) 19:48, 29 June 2013 (UTC)
This entry seems to be rather long and overly detailed for a person with such minimal importance in the world. -- 157.254.178.140 ( talk) 00:57, 9 August 2013 (UTC)
Regarding the topic of whether Crocker has finally transitioned to a female identity for good, I started a discussion on this matter at the WP:BLP noticeboard: Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard#Gender identity matter at Chris Crocker article. A WP:Permalink for that is here. Flyer22 ( talk) 02:35, 10 June 2015 (UTC)
recently, Crocker closed his YouTube channel. idk whether to update the article, but i will go ahead and put an {{ outdated}} template on it. 173.85.202.225 ( talk) 18:12, 27 September 2015 (UTC)
He was serious when he've made "Britney alone", or it was a joke? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A01:E35:8A8D:FE80:5CD3:1365:4CCC:D8F3 ( talk) 07:22, 23 October 2015 (UTC)
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![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | → | Archive 9 |
I just nominated this for good article status. I feel it's thoroughly researched, well organized and reasonably well written. One possible knock against it is its apparent instability, but I feel most of that is the result of vandals and not edit-warring, per se. I'd love to know what the rest of you think.-- The Fat Man Who Never Came Back 18:29, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
Would someone like to hunt down a replacement image that can be loaded into the commons? The current front newspage image has been tagged for speedy deletion so it would be nice to have a still photo from his Leave Britney Alone video showing him crying or otherwise upset as many have come to know him. Benjiboi 00:53, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
It qualifies for fair use, no question; but we need to be sure this is the state of Chris's agony we prefer. There are many other facial expressions to choose from... Ichormosquito 09:15, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
this deal / project with 44 blue has been cancelled - he no longer works with them. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZ_63SZUNyg Apelike 19:33, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
he also kissed his brother!
Speaking of updates, the video has had over 11,000,000 views as of today. 216.182.30.59 23:00, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
I removed the comment: "Psychologist Kevin Leman noted that voyeuristic fascination with celebrity "says that we live in a morally corrupt society", [1] and that Crocker is a good example of the narcissistic look-at-me generation of attention-seeking mongers. [1]" because it appears to violate neutral point of view rules. This article was 1) written by a non-notable psychologist, in 2) the opinion section of 3) a small-city newspaper. The article wasn't even about Crocker, but happened to mention him as an example of what one single individual feels is the moral corruption of our society. To use such an article as a source to bash subtley bash Crocker certianly violates Wikipedia's neutral point of view policies. Aegiswings 04:45, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
My edits were reverted so I'm updating this page to add that this article was even written by a psychologist. It was written by a sport's writer who turned to Leman, a psychologist for his opinions. The content in question wasn't even said by Leman; it was writted by Steve Rivera, the author of the article! Leman never used Crocker as an example, and so attributing the comment to Leman this is just plain wrong. I'm removing it again. Aegiswings 04:45, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
I don't know if this was already brought up, but shouldn't there be a mention in the article that Britney Spears finds Chris Crocker "creepy" and his video "insulting"? There was a story about this about 2 weeks ago. ---- Ðysepsion † Speak your mind 18:58, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
Should this box really be at the bottom? No other lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgendered people have it on their wiki page. I don't think his sexuality is really a big issue at all, which brings me to question why the page starts with "Chris Crocker is an openly gay.... ". His sexuality is a detail which attributes to his being, but he is known more for his "camp persona" which is really irrelevant to his orientation as there are many camp straight people in the entertainment world today - I believe this should be reviewed, opinions? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.151.197.8 ( talk) 19:51, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
{{ editprotected}} Hi, Admins, I'd just like to point out that in the section "Why I'm Gay" towards the bottom, there's a misspelling of the word "erotically". Rather, it is spelled "eroticly". Please make this minor change. ATD 14:20, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
He has new videos on Youtube kissing someone he claims is his brother. True or not, that seems notable -- Gargletheape 17:04, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
Seems dubious at best, anyone heard of this or seen sources for same? Benjiboi 07:40, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
I've heard that the nude photos, which were supposedly taken when Chris Crocker was 17, contain meta data of when they were taken, and that the dates are after he turned 18. Is there any information on this? There seems to be significant interest in these photos, and many people who want to seem or distribute them don't solely because of the assumption that Chris was underage at the time. Considering that Chris already lied by claiming they were fakes, I wouldn't be surprised if he was lying about his age. Herorev 06:37, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
Approaching a month on protection. It's time to get this consensus over with and unprotect the article. -- ALLSTAR echo 04:26, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
{{ editprotect}} Add the following item to the "Parodies" column:
Another spoof was uploaded on Youtube on November 16, 2007 by a user posing as one of Santa Claus's Elves telling the public to "Leave Santa Alone" [2] (in response to the "Santas warned 'ho ho ho' offensive to women" story [3]) Mbrstooge ( talk) 22:06, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
I think we should delete this article, because it contributes little to wikipedia, and it seriously harms it's credibility. [[User:JamalThompson|JamalThompson] talk 23:32, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
This article affects wikipedia's credibility, and chris crocker doesn't have enough merits to be in wikipedia. I suggest deletion.[[User:JamalThompson|JamalThompson] talk 23:32, 29 November 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 148.201.1.111 ( talk)
I agree with Jamal, these kind of articles just don't belong to Wikipedia. (sorry i dunno how to sign)
What?(sorry i dunno how to sign)
Ok. (sorry i dunno how to sign) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.167.12.86 ( talk) 06:49, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
FYI: Chris Crocker is a real guy from Tennessee. There are probably at least a thousand people who remember him on AOL when he was about 13, running an e-zine; I am one of those people. He's always been extremely flamboyant, he's always pushed the envelope, and he has always had a distinct crowd of people either loving him or hating him. If there's one thing I wish I could yell out about this kid, it's that he DEFINITELY isn't another "lonelygirl15." He'd been stirring up controversy on the Internet for several YEARS before he became well known on YouTube. -- laura.kathleen@gmail.com adding sig to unsigned comment User:71.68.41.120
Benjiboy, I just found the information about Chris' real home town and I have a way to prove it, but I am afraid of posting this here and discussin it openly and putting his life and his grandparents and friends in danger so I want to hear what you've got to say about it, since you've been organising his article here. my email is xavierdenis@gmail.com and I would like to tell you how i found out. notice that we could be the ones who tell the world first wherehe actually comes from with this info i've got so i wantyou tothink about it and drop me a line. thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Denisxavier ( talk • contribs) 17:38, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
Is there any reason that this page needs to show this much detail? I'd argue that the only notable output of this individual is an internet meme, and therefore much of the rest of the information here is mere filler. I'd move for a massive cull of this page Blaqkmage 23:04, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
I wonder why Chris warrants an article at all. But I also wonder why he can refer to himself as the "Queen of Complaint" on the basis that complaining is his "religion". Should complaint be his realm or dominion? Or should he be the acolyte/bishop/pope/etc. of complaint? What is his appropriate institutional relationship with complaint? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 222.155.6.180 ( talk) 13:19, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
I don't know if this is important or not, but at about 10:20 PM on Oct. 16, 2007, someone uploaded a video of Chris Crocker on Youtube, and it had him talking to a small audience in Las Vegas, talking about the lawsuit for a very short time, then he performs a striptease to Britney Spears' Gimme More song, or whatever it is. I didn't watch the whole thing, but he showed his bare bottom at least twice, one on camera, one off. When I refeshed it so I could know exactly how long it had been up, it had been taken off due to its terms of use violation (in under 1 hour). Just thought I should put the info up, since I can't edit the page yet. October 16, 2007, 22:56 ( Jeefy69 02:59, 17 October 2007 (UTC))
I don't know if "featured on Maury (TV series)", is worth adding, considering everything else he's popped up in, but here's a link, regardless: [1] Maury's quote is priceless. Ichormosquito 09:39, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
It looks like gay press articles are starting to hit, this one covers etymology of Crocker's name and some extra bio material. Benjiboi 09:17, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
Almost six weeks. Have the disputes really not been resolved yet? Are they that important to justify six weeks' full protection?-- h i s s p a c e r e s e a r c h 16:23, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
(restoring talkcomment)
Looking up the page, it seems like consensus has been reached to me: there is a consensus that the disputed paragraph should not be included in this article. (For what it's worth, I support that view as well.) On the assumption that everyone here is going to stand by that, I'll go and request unprotection. Terraxos ( talk) 17:34, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
FYI, [2] (currently ref 17) also mentions us: "If Wikipedia hasn’t recognized Chris as an official Internet phenomenon, he certainly is now" Jason McHuff ( talk) 13:06, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
I don't see a single mention of his 9/11 video or that video where he kissed his brother.-- Wussycat ( talk) 22:32, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
...that this passes the notability test. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.14.104.198 ( talk) 17:49, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
Its www.myspace.com/chriscrocker NOT www.myspace.com/itschriscrocker
"itschriscrocker" is someone getting people to add them on myspace so they can get more friends. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.149.192.11 ( talk) 22:48, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
{{ editprotected}}
Please replace "www.MySpace.com/ItsChrisCrocker" in the bio box with "www.MySpace.com/ChrisCrocker" Benjiboi
FYI, [3] (currently ref 17) also mentions us: "If Wikipedia hasn’t recognized Chris as an official Internet phenomenon, he certainly is now" Jason McHuff ( talk) 04:31, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
The longer this article gets, the more certain statements (sourced solely to YouTube - which seems to be in conflict with WP:RS) don't seem to belong here. I'm going to work on cleaning it up and trimming off some of the fat so to speak, but if anyone else wants to pitch in or has any advice on how to handle this one, that would be great. To be specific, I'm talking about things like video view count claims (which can be manipulated) that have no other sources to demonstrate notability. Feather Jonah ( talk) 23:43, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
Why, exactly, are we allowing YouTube ANYWHERE on WP as a source, save articles directly addressing it? Looks like way too much content to delete for anyone but a mod. RvLeshrac ( talk) 04:08, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
Are there any more reliable sources available for the singles? Sales links such as iTunes and Amazon download pages seem to serve as promotion rather than verification...and there are some social network announcements in the mix again, which are not solid enough to verify that these singles were actually released. Feather Jonah ( talk) 02:43, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from: http://chris-crocker.org/selected-videography/ (content added here. Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.) For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. Moonriddengirl (talk) 19:48, 29 June 2013 (UTC)
This entry seems to be rather long and overly detailed for a person with such minimal importance in the world. -- 157.254.178.140 ( talk) 00:57, 9 August 2013 (UTC)
Regarding the topic of whether Crocker has finally transitioned to a female identity for good, I started a discussion on this matter at the WP:BLP noticeboard: Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard#Gender identity matter at Chris Crocker article. A WP:Permalink for that is here. Flyer22 ( talk) 02:35, 10 June 2015 (UTC)
recently, Crocker closed his YouTube channel. idk whether to update the article, but i will go ahead and put an {{ outdated}} template on it. 173.85.202.225 ( talk) 18:12, 27 September 2015 (UTC)
He was serious when he've made "Britney alone", or it was a joke? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A01:E35:8A8D:FE80:5CD3:1365:4CCC:D8F3 ( talk) 07:22, 23 October 2015 (UTC)
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 19:52, 21 January 2016 (UTC)
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