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This article seems to be the expanded duplicate of the article Karamanlides. But I don’t like merge proposals and I prefer to warn the editors instead. Nedim Ardoğa ( talk) 08:41, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
This article covers all Greeks of Cappadocia whether Greek or Turkish speaking (this includes the Karamanlides), and their history in Cappadocia whereas the Karamanlides article, only covers the solely Turkish-speaking Greeks of Cappadocia and does not include Greek-speaking Greeks of Cappadocia, for that reason this article shouldn't be merged with the Karamanlides article. Zorlusert ( talk) 16:35, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
See talk page of Bronze Age collapse:
According to Official Ottoman documents, in 1910 21.92% of Anatolian population was Chritian. According to Ecumenical Patriarchate statistics from 1912, proportion of Christians is even bigger, 24.73%.I highly doubt that is possible that share of Christian increased more than twice during five centuries of Mulim rule. -- Dalibor Đurić ( talk) 22:07, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
The current "Early migrations" section somehow manages to synthesize several sources (footnotes 7-13) which all explicitly say that there were not any Greeks in central Asia Minor in the Mycenaean period to say the opposite. These sources say that "few traces" of the Mycenaeans were found (pots are items of trade...); that there were Greeks in Miletus (on the coast) in 1200 BC or so; that the coastal regions (Ionia, Aeolis, etc.) were settled from 1000-550 BC. But no source mentions Greek settlements in inner Asia Minor (i.e., Cappadocia) until the Hellenistic period, when the Seleucids start installing Macedonians/Greeks as judges, administrators, and the like. It seems to me therefore that the whole passage from "The earliest Greek presence..." up to "trade merchandise through the Anatolian highlands, to and from Cappadocia, Syria and other Eastern regions." can be deleted. -- Macrakis ( talk) 22:16, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
The term "ethnic Greeks" was used several times in the article, in different senses. In the early period, the article seems to use "ethnic Greek" to mean "biological descendant of Greek colonists" (as opposed to the previous inhabitants who where Hellenized), while in the later period, it seems to mean "Greek-speaking Orthodox Christian" (as opposed to Armenians and Muslims) and even later, just "Orthodox Christian" (including non-Greek speakers like Karamanlides). Besides the ambiguity/polysemy of the word, it is fraught with modern ideological baggage which is best avoided. Moreover, we don't know much about the importance of these distinctions. In the pre-Christian period, was there a well-defined 'caste' of descendants of Greek colonists (possible, but I don't know of any evidence for it). In the Christian period, was it enough to be Orthodox Christian to be considered an "ethnic Greek", or did you also have to speak Greek as your home language, or have no known non-Greek ancestry? And of course the term "ethnic Greek" is a complete anachronism, since έθνος meant something like 'barbarian tribe' and Έλλην meant 'pagan' by this period.
I have tried to reword using better terminology, but I'm sure it can be improved further. -- Macrakis ( talk) 22:45, 4 December 2014 (UTC)
The article say in this time:
"In the early centuries of the Common Era Cappadocia produced three prominent Greek patristic figures, known as the three hierarchs. They were Basil the Great (c. 330-79), Bishop of Caesarea in Cappadocia, Gregory of Nazianzus (c.330-c.389 AD) (later known as Saint Gregory of Nazian) and Gregory of Nyssa (died c. 394)."
That is not correct. The source (Bury, John Bagnell (1967). The Cambridge medieval history, Volume 9, Part 2. University Press. p. 213. OCLC 25352555.) write:
"The three great Cappadocian Fathers, called by the Greeks 'the three hierarchs ', belong to the Alexandrian school of thought. They are Basil the Great, Bishop of Caesarea in Cappadocia (c. 330-79); Gregory of Nazianzus, a writer of great sensibility with a turn for poetry, the great ‘Theologian’ (as he is called by later writers), for a short time Patriarch of Constantinople (c. 379-c. 390); and Gregory of Nyssa (died c. 394), brother of Basil the Great and Bishop of the small town of Nyssa, a profound thinker and versatile writer."
"The three great Cappadocian Fathers" is correct, but "the three hierarchs" is a mistake. "The three hierarchs" is a orthodox memorial day at January 30th for Basilius the Great, Gregor the Theologian (the Great of Nazianus) and Johannes Chrysostomos.
Better is following:
"In the early centuries of the Common Era Cappadocia produced three prominent Greek patristic figures, known as the three great Cappadocian Fathers. They were Basil the Great (c. 330-79), Bishop of Caesarea in Cappadocia, Gregory of Nazianzus (c.330-c.389 AD) (later known as Saint Gregory of Nazian) and Gregory of Nyssa (died c. 394)."
Greatings -- Methodios ( talk) 07:07, 16 May 2015 (UTC)
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@ Khirurg: Where does it state that they were ethnically Greek? The Kingdom of Cappadocia was founded by an Iranian, not a Greek. All subsequent Ariarathid kings were his descendants. This is well established. Including Ariarathes V. Even though the sources make no mention of them being Greek, the article bluntly labels Ariarathes V of Cappadocia as a "Greek king", and makes it seem as if the Kingdom of Cappadocia was a "Greek kingdom". This is incorrect per WP:VER and WP:RS.
A cursory look;
- LouisAragon ( talk) 00:09, 16 September 2018 (UTC)
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This article seems to be the expanded duplicate of the article Karamanlides. But I don’t like merge proposals and I prefer to warn the editors instead. Nedim Ardoğa ( talk) 08:41, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
This article covers all Greeks of Cappadocia whether Greek or Turkish speaking (this includes the Karamanlides), and their history in Cappadocia whereas the Karamanlides article, only covers the solely Turkish-speaking Greeks of Cappadocia and does not include Greek-speaking Greeks of Cappadocia, for that reason this article shouldn't be merged with the Karamanlides article. Zorlusert ( talk) 16:35, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
See talk page of Bronze Age collapse:
According to Official Ottoman documents, in 1910 21.92% of Anatolian population was Chritian. According to Ecumenical Patriarchate statistics from 1912, proportion of Christians is even bigger, 24.73%.I highly doubt that is possible that share of Christian increased more than twice during five centuries of Mulim rule. -- Dalibor Đurić ( talk) 22:07, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
The current "Early migrations" section somehow manages to synthesize several sources (footnotes 7-13) which all explicitly say that there were not any Greeks in central Asia Minor in the Mycenaean period to say the opposite. These sources say that "few traces" of the Mycenaeans were found (pots are items of trade...); that there were Greeks in Miletus (on the coast) in 1200 BC or so; that the coastal regions (Ionia, Aeolis, etc.) were settled from 1000-550 BC. But no source mentions Greek settlements in inner Asia Minor (i.e., Cappadocia) until the Hellenistic period, when the Seleucids start installing Macedonians/Greeks as judges, administrators, and the like. It seems to me therefore that the whole passage from "The earliest Greek presence..." up to "trade merchandise through the Anatolian highlands, to and from Cappadocia, Syria and other Eastern regions." can be deleted. -- Macrakis ( talk) 22:16, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
The term "ethnic Greeks" was used several times in the article, in different senses. In the early period, the article seems to use "ethnic Greek" to mean "biological descendant of Greek colonists" (as opposed to the previous inhabitants who where Hellenized), while in the later period, it seems to mean "Greek-speaking Orthodox Christian" (as opposed to Armenians and Muslims) and even later, just "Orthodox Christian" (including non-Greek speakers like Karamanlides). Besides the ambiguity/polysemy of the word, it is fraught with modern ideological baggage which is best avoided. Moreover, we don't know much about the importance of these distinctions. In the pre-Christian period, was there a well-defined 'caste' of descendants of Greek colonists (possible, but I don't know of any evidence for it). In the Christian period, was it enough to be Orthodox Christian to be considered an "ethnic Greek", or did you also have to speak Greek as your home language, or have no known non-Greek ancestry? And of course the term "ethnic Greek" is a complete anachronism, since έθνος meant something like 'barbarian tribe' and Έλλην meant 'pagan' by this period.
I have tried to reword using better terminology, but I'm sure it can be improved further. -- Macrakis ( talk) 22:45, 4 December 2014 (UTC)
The article say in this time:
"In the early centuries of the Common Era Cappadocia produced three prominent Greek patristic figures, known as the three hierarchs. They were Basil the Great (c. 330-79), Bishop of Caesarea in Cappadocia, Gregory of Nazianzus (c.330-c.389 AD) (later known as Saint Gregory of Nazian) and Gregory of Nyssa (died c. 394)."
That is not correct. The source (Bury, John Bagnell (1967). The Cambridge medieval history, Volume 9, Part 2. University Press. p. 213. OCLC 25352555.) write:
"The three great Cappadocian Fathers, called by the Greeks 'the three hierarchs ', belong to the Alexandrian school of thought. They are Basil the Great, Bishop of Caesarea in Cappadocia (c. 330-79); Gregory of Nazianzus, a writer of great sensibility with a turn for poetry, the great ‘Theologian’ (as he is called by later writers), for a short time Patriarch of Constantinople (c. 379-c. 390); and Gregory of Nyssa (died c. 394), brother of Basil the Great and Bishop of the small town of Nyssa, a profound thinker and versatile writer."
"The three great Cappadocian Fathers" is correct, but "the three hierarchs" is a mistake. "The three hierarchs" is a orthodox memorial day at January 30th for Basilius the Great, Gregor the Theologian (the Great of Nazianus) and Johannes Chrysostomos.
Better is following:
"In the early centuries of the Common Era Cappadocia produced three prominent Greek patristic figures, known as the three great Cappadocian Fathers. They were Basil the Great (c. 330-79), Bishop of Caesarea in Cappadocia, Gregory of Nazianzus (c.330-c.389 AD) (later known as Saint Gregory of Nazian) and Gregory of Nyssa (died c. 394)."
Greatings -- Methodios ( talk) 07:07, 16 May 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Cappadocian Greeks. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{
Sourcecheck}}
).
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 18:55, 14 November 2016 (UTC)
@ Khirurg: Where does it state that they were ethnically Greek? The Kingdom of Cappadocia was founded by an Iranian, not a Greek. All subsequent Ariarathid kings were his descendants. This is well established. Including Ariarathes V. Even though the sources make no mention of them being Greek, the article bluntly labels Ariarathes V of Cappadocia as a "Greek king", and makes it seem as if the Kingdom of Cappadocia was a "Greek kingdom". This is incorrect per WP:VER and WP:RS.
A cursory look;
- LouisAragon ( talk) 00:09, 16 September 2018 (UTC)