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From specifically which reference originates the sentence, "The five largest Atlantic tropical cyclones on record have been Cape Verde-type hurricanes."? It would be great if I could get this, as it will be helpful for my MS thesis. Thanks.
Timothy Chen Allen ( talk) 19:11, 12 November 2013 (UTC)
Better structure; more of a narrative thread uniting the article. Jdorje 20:19, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
I was given the impression that there is a distinct "Cape Verde season" in which CV cyclones are favored over storms that are formed near the Bahamas or the Gulf of Mexico, and it seems to "cut off" about mid-September. Is that the case? If so, it might be worthwhile to note the hurricanes that occurred the earliest and the latest within the Cape Verde season (for example Lili and Karl both were named on September 15th or later). 66.217.44.205 03:12, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
Stressing this type as separate inplies that there are other types, but no mention is made of other types, not even references. CFLeon 21:00, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
Hi. Are storms which originate as tropical waves forming near Cape Verde count as Cape Verde-type hurricanes like Felix (2007) or Dolly (2008), and what about storms that travel north like Vince or Epsilon of 2005, and why does this article associate only to hurricanes and not to tropical storms or depressions? Thanks. ~ A H 1( T C U) 18:04, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
BTW, Tropical Storm Josephine formed off of Cape Verde. But it dissipated in the middle of the Atlantic. Now they're saying it could regenerate as the remnants move into the Caribbean. Would it be called Josephine or Kyle? And if it does regenerate, do you think it could have enough time or enough gas in the tank to form into anything bad? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.122.253.110 ( talk) 13:46, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
I'm pretty sure Katia is a cape verde type... But can somebody make sure as it did form slightly west of cape verde? JohnnyRH ( talk) 22:30, 5 September 2011 (UTC)
In my opinion there is a lot of variation in what is labeled as a Cape Verde storm. The region of development is open to discussion. Even the NHC's FAQ has a statement that "that would be my definition, there may be others" [1] when trying to pin down whether a storm is or is not a Cape Verde type. Using a fairly loose or broad definition, the tracks of some storms might pass the Cape Verde Islands prior to development. The question open to debate is where must development take place and to what extent should this development be for it to "qualify." So I would offer up my "definition" for the purposes of this article, and the article's discussion of tracks.
I noticed that in at least the case of Hurricane Gilbert, that the moment of development of that storm does not fit the typical definition of a Cape Verde hurricane. But suspend disbelief for just a moment and consider what the article's emphasis is. In this particular case, we are discussing tracks that are typical of Cape Verde hurricanes. Gilbert definitely fits this constraint perfectly. Not only did the "tropical wave" leave Africa and pass by Cape Verde, its track continued to follow the quite horrific southern route that wreaks so much havoc. But it was only a "disturbance" or "wave" when it was in the Eastern Atlantic. So while not a textbook case, this hurricane met all of the criteria for a Cape Verde storm except that its development was to far west. Notably, though, it was a hurricane before approaching the Lesser Antilles.
In summary, the track of Gilbert from its genesis in Africa was similar to a Cape Verde hurricane, and thus it would serve as a good example of one on the southern track. I have a feeling that what prevents such tropical waves from developing in the Eastern Atlantic might often be their proximity to the equator's Intertropical Convergence Zone, along with the lack of Coriolis effect in low latitudes. Gilbert's tropical wave was so far south, it was unable to develop until closing in on the Caribbean. And although Gilbert may be a good example of an exception to a strict rule of defining a Cape Verde storm, I believe that a loose definition would permit the best discussion of typical tracks. It's not like we have 1,000 years of storms in the record books, nor is it like there is a clear and perfect reason to define them restrictively. I like to saw logs! ( talk) 21:02, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: page moved. Anthony Appleyard ( talk) 21:26, 30 August 2015 (UTC)
Cape Verde-type hurricane → Cape Verde hurricane – The prevalence of "-type" being included in the name of this particular species of storm is considerably lower than that of the name sans it, both in technical literature (e.g. the article's own current references) as well as usage in general. Froglich ( talk) 04:32, 23 August 2015 (UTC)
----
The recent edits have produced a new section for "famous" Cape Verde storms. Is this some kind of popularity contest for storms? Don't get me wrong, I think a few of the major storms in the old list were of little noteworthiness, but the current list is problematic. The list of "famous" ones is essentially going to face an influx of opinions based on severity, casualties, intensity, retired names, local fame, and the costly nature of the storms listed. But we already have most of those lists... A list of popular Cape Verde hurricanes? Well-known? How about we just list the significant ones? The list at first blush seems to remove a lot of interesting cases, including the ones which made landfall in Canada and other non-U.S. territories. And by the way, Hurricane Jeanne should be removed as it was not a great example of one, depending on your definition.
The other situation is the cut-and-paste quote from Landsea about the definition of the Cape Verde storm. As I pointed out a few years ago (on this page) and has been consensus for some time, the definition is flexible and somewhat vague in many people's minds. Landsea's strict definition of a Cape Verde hurricane has NOT been adopted by consensus, neither in the scientific community nor here. So while I don't contest Hurricane Jeanne being listed, I believe that others (like Landsea) would. So I propose removing Landsea's quote and replacing it with language that permits a flexible definition (without arbitrary hard-and-fast latitude and longitude rules). And I propose de-listing Hurricane Jeanne in the popularity contest list due to it not fitting the ideal, technical, strict definition of a Cape Verde storm... it formed pretty far west.
I also contend that since this is an article meant for non-technical readers, we try to use the year in parentheses to distinguish even famous hurricanes, like Gilbert (1988) along with the wikilink in most cases. We typically will only mention a storm once or maybe twice with the exception of the the storms chosen to show up as an exemplary track.... like Allen, Georges, Gloria, Edouard.
As for the removal of the #5 track, how did this track detract from the article? (It was there for 3 years or so.) After all, storms of this nature do meet the definition of Landsea and others for a Cape Verde hurricane... they simply do not track westward for very long, if at all. This track also serves to explain the tropical ridge a little better. My reason for the #5 track is simple: each track was supposed to get further and further north and away from North American landfall, this being the case of essentially no chance at landfall. This probably happens a lot during Atlantic multidecadal oscillation cold phases... like in 1979. I like to saw logs! ( talk) 07:32, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
To revisit the discussion from 2008, are there now names for other "types" or Atlantic-basin tropical cyclones? I live on the west coast of Florida, and frequently hear meteorologists talk about early- and late-season storms that form in the Bay of Campeche. Such storm are (apparently) more likely to to have significant impact here since they can roar across the warm Gulf undiminished whilst Cape-Verde types have to either weave their way through the landforms of the Caribbean or lose strength as they cross the Florida peninsula. Myth or fact, is there a way to craft and encyclopaedic article about non-CV storms? PS: If there is not and this is the only "type", why is it not section of the overall tropical cyclone article? Kevin posting from non-logged in device. 159.53.174.140 ( talk) 17:02, 7 October 2016 (UTC)
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Since it was started in 2004 up until last year (when an editor section-blanked), this article has had a section devoted to a list of representative storms. In 2015, noting that the list was becoming bloated as some sought to include every Cape Verde hurricane that had achieved cat-3 "Major" status regardless of whether the storm had approached land or was notable enough for an independent article, I undertook to trim the less notable storms. Since intensity was less useful an indicator of noteworthiness than impact upon humanity, in September 2015 I chose the word "significant" (over "famous", "noteworthy" or similar synonyms) after prompting from user Auree on my user talk page. There was no apparent dissent, and the section remained until is was summarily deleted on 21 July 2016.
I attempted to restore the section the other day, and was reverted by the editor who originally removed the section.
So, I bring it up for discussion: would the article be usefully served with a list of representative storms?-- Froglich ( talk) 06:42, 3 June 2017 (UTC)
{{
cn}}
is not a pass for adding dubious information.@ Froglich: Uhm, no. The general concept is defined, it is just not well-defined enough for us to be compiling a list. And we certainly can't include every single storm the NHC has explicitly declared to be Cape Verde, so then where's the cutoff for the proposed listing? You won't find any natural one. There are various articles on things that are not well-defined (the unexpected hanging paradox being one), but one cannot reasonably expect to enumerate an ill-defined set. The distinction has to be made between a qualitative description, for which we have reliable sources, and a quantitative one suitable for creating a list. We have the former, which is well-sourced, but not the latter. If I were to have wanted the whole article deleted, then yes, I would've sent it to AfD. The fact that I did not should immediately suggest that there is more to my objection than anything along those lines.-- Jasper Deng (talk) 08:28, 4 June 2017 (UTC)
In the Origin section, it says something about being within 10 to 15 degrees of longitude of the Cape Verde Islands, or within 6690 to 10,030 miles. I don't know the correct mileage numbers, but I do know those have to be wrong. 10,000 miles is almost have the circumference of the globe. 2607:FCC8:AD98:F200:CB2:B23A:3A26:FC9 ( talk) 04:14, 25 August 2017 (UTC)
The actual distance is one-tenth of this. At the latitude of Cape Verde (about 15 degrees) one degree of latitude is about cos(15 degrees) * (40000 km)/360 = 107.3 kilometers. Miclugo ( talk) 02:31, 6 September 2017 (UTC)
Would it be reasonable to view Irma as the most notable example of a Cape Verde which follows the Caribbean track? BrendonTheWizard ( talk) 19:28, 9 September 2017 (UTC)
I don't think Laura and Dorian were classic Cape Verde Hurricanes, they formed in the Central Atlantic, not close to the Cape Verde islands. Earl and Igor in 2010 were much more classic CV storms NSEasternShoreChemist, B.Sc. Questions/Comments? 00:05, 11 June 2023 (UTC)
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From specifically which reference originates the sentence, "The five largest Atlantic tropical cyclones on record have been Cape Verde-type hurricanes."? It would be great if I could get this, as it will be helpful for my MS thesis. Thanks.
Timothy Chen Allen ( talk) 19:11, 12 November 2013 (UTC)
Better structure; more of a narrative thread uniting the article. Jdorje 20:19, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
I was given the impression that there is a distinct "Cape Verde season" in which CV cyclones are favored over storms that are formed near the Bahamas or the Gulf of Mexico, and it seems to "cut off" about mid-September. Is that the case? If so, it might be worthwhile to note the hurricanes that occurred the earliest and the latest within the Cape Verde season (for example Lili and Karl both were named on September 15th or later). 66.217.44.205 03:12, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
Stressing this type as separate inplies that there are other types, but no mention is made of other types, not even references. CFLeon 21:00, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
Hi. Are storms which originate as tropical waves forming near Cape Verde count as Cape Verde-type hurricanes like Felix (2007) or Dolly (2008), and what about storms that travel north like Vince or Epsilon of 2005, and why does this article associate only to hurricanes and not to tropical storms or depressions? Thanks. ~ A H 1( T C U) 18:04, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
BTW, Tropical Storm Josephine formed off of Cape Verde. But it dissipated in the middle of the Atlantic. Now they're saying it could regenerate as the remnants move into the Caribbean. Would it be called Josephine or Kyle? And if it does regenerate, do you think it could have enough time or enough gas in the tank to form into anything bad? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.122.253.110 ( talk) 13:46, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
I'm pretty sure Katia is a cape verde type... But can somebody make sure as it did form slightly west of cape verde? JohnnyRH ( talk) 22:30, 5 September 2011 (UTC)
In my opinion there is a lot of variation in what is labeled as a Cape Verde storm. The region of development is open to discussion. Even the NHC's FAQ has a statement that "that would be my definition, there may be others" [1] when trying to pin down whether a storm is or is not a Cape Verde type. Using a fairly loose or broad definition, the tracks of some storms might pass the Cape Verde Islands prior to development. The question open to debate is where must development take place and to what extent should this development be for it to "qualify." So I would offer up my "definition" for the purposes of this article, and the article's discussion of tracks.
I noticed that in at least the case of Hurricane Gilbert, that the moment of development of that storm does not fit the typical definition of a Cape Verde hurricane. But suspend disbelief for just a moment and consider what the article's emphasis is. In this particular case, we are discussing tracks that are typical of Cape Verde hurricanes. Gilbert definitely fits this constraint perfectly. Not only did the "tropical wave" leave Africa and pass by Cape Verde, its track continued to follow the quite horrific southern route that wreaks so much havoc. But it was only a "disturbance" or "wave" when it was in the Eastern Atlantic. So while not a textbook case, this hurricane met all of the criteria for a Cape Verde storm except that its development was to far west. Notably, though, it was a hurricane before approaching the Lesser Antilles.
In summary, the track of Gilbert from its genesis in Africa was similar to a Cape Verde hurricane, and thus it would serve as a good example of one on the southern track. I have a feeling that what prevents such tropical waves from developing in the Eastern Atlantic might often be their proximity to the equator's Intertropical Convergence Zone, along with the lack of Coriolis effect in low latitudes. Gilbert's tropical wave was so far south, it was unable to develop until closing in on the Caribbean. And although Gilbert may be a good example of an exception to a strict rule of defining a Cape Verde storm, I believe that a loose definition would permit the best discussion of typical tracks. It's not like we have 1,000 years of storms in the record books, nor is it like there is a clear and perfect reason to define them restrictively. I like to saw logs! ( talk) 21:02, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: page moved. Anthony Appleyard ( talk) 21:26, 30 August 2015 (UTC)
Cape Verde-type hurricane → Cape Verde hurricane – The prevalence of "-type" being included in the name of this particular species of storm is considerably lower than that of the name sans it, both in technical literature (e.g. the article's own current references) as well as usage in general. Froglich ( talk) 04:32, 23 August 2015 (UTC)
----
The recent edits have produced a new section for "famous" Cape Verde storms. Is this some kind of popularity contest for storms? Don't get me wrong, I think a few of the major storms in the old list were of little noteworthiness, but the current list is problematic. The list of "famous" ones is essentially going to face an influx of opinions based on severity, casualties, intensity, retired names, local fame, and the costly nature of the storms listed. But we already have most of those lists... A list of popular Cape Verde hurricanes? Well-known? How about we just list the significant ones? The list at first blush seems to remove a lot of interesting cases, including the ones which made landfall in Canada and other non-U.S. territories. And by the way, Hurricane Jeanne should be removed as it was not a great example of one, depending on your definition.
The other situation is the cut-and-paste quote from Landsea about the definition of the Cape Verde storm. As I pointed out a few years ago (on this page) and has been consensus for some time, the definition is flexible and somewhat vague in many people's minds. Landsea's strict definition of a Cape Verde hurricane has NOT been adopted by consensus, neither in the scientific community nor here. So while I don't contest Hurricane Jeanne being listed, I believe that others (like Landsea) would. So I propose removing Landsea's quote and replacing it with language that permits a flexible definition (without arbitrary hard-and-fast latitude and longitude rules). And I propose de-listing Hurricane Jeanne in the popularity contest list due to it not fitting the ideal, technical, strict definition of a Cape Verde storm... it formed pretty far west.
I also contend that since this is an article meant for non-technical readers, we try to use the year in parentheses to distinguish even famous hurricanes, like Gilbert (1988) along with the wikilink in most cases. We typically will only mention a storm once or maybe twice with the exception of the the storms chosen to show up as an exemplary track.... like Allen, Georges, Gloria, Edouard.
As for the removal of the #5 track, how did this track detract from the article? (It was there for 3 years or so.) After all, storms of this nature do meet the definition of Landsea and others for a Cape Verde hurricane... they simply do not track westward for very long, if at all. This track also serves to explain the tropical ridge a little better. My reason for the #5 track is simple: each track was supposed to get further and further north and away from North American landfall, this being the case of essentially no chance at landfall. This probably happens a lot during Atlantic multidecadal oscillation cold phases... like in 1979. I like to saw logs! ( talk) 07:32, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
To revisit the discussion from 2008, are there now names for other "types" or Atlantic-basin tropical cyclones? I live on the west coast of Florida, and frequently hear meteorologists talk about early- and late-season storms that form in the Bay of Campeche. Such storm are (apparently) more likely to to have significant impact here since they can roar across the warm Gulf undiminished whilst Cape-Verde types have to either weave their way through the landforms of the Caribbean or lose strength as they cross the Florida peninsula. Myth or fact, is there a way to craft and encyclopaedic article about non-CV storms? PS: If there is not and this is the only "type", why is it not section of the overall tropical cyclone article? Kevin posting from non-logged in device. 159.53.174.140 ( talk) 17:02, 7 October 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Cape Verde hurricane. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 15:01, 14 November 2016 (UTC)
Since it was started in 2004 up until last year (when an editor section-blanked), this article has had a section devoted to a list of representative storms. In 2015, noting that the list was becoming bloated as some sought to include every Cape Verde hurricane that had achieved cat-3 "Major" status regardless of whether the storm had approached land or was notable enough for an independent article, I undertook to trim the less notable storms. Since intensity was less useful an indicator of noteworthiness than impact upon humanity, in September 2015 I chose the word "significant" (over "famous", "noteworthy" or similar synonyms) after prompting from user Auree on my user talk page. There was no apparent dissent, and the section remained until is was summarily deleted on 21 July 2016.
I attempted to restore the section the other day, and was reverted by the editor who originally removed the section.
So, I bring it up for discussion: would the article be usefully served with a list of representative storms?-- Froglich ( talk) 06:42, 3 June 2017 (UTC)
{{
cn}}
is not a pass for adding dubious information.@ Froglich: Uhm, no. The general concept is defined, it is just not well-defined enough for us to be compiling a list. And we certainly can't include every single storm the NHC has explicitly declared to be Cape Verde, so then where's the cutoff for the proposed listing? You won't find any natural one. There are various articles on things that are not well-defined (the unexpected hanging paradox being one), but one cannot reasonably expect to enumerate an ill-defined set. The distinction has to be made between a qualitative description, for which we have reliable sources, and a quantitative one suitable for creating a list. We have the former, which is well-sourced, but not the latter. If I were to have wanted the whole article deleted, then yes, I would've sent it to AfD. The fact that I did not should immediately suggest that there is more to my objection than anything along those lines.-- Jasper Deng (talk) 08:28, 4 June 2017 (UTC)
In the Origin section, it says something about being within 10 to 15 degrees of longitude of the Cape Verde Islands, or within 6690 to 10,030 miles. I don't know the correct mileage numbers, but I do know those have to be wrong. 10,000 miles is almost have the circumference of the globe. 2607:FCC8:AD98:F200:CB2:B23A:3A26:FC9 ( talk) 04:14, 25 August 2017 (UTC)
The actual distance is one-tenth of this. At the latitude of Cape Verde (about 15 degrees) one degree of latitude is about cos(15 degrees) * (40000 km)/360 = 107.3 kilometers. Miclugo ( talk) 02:31, 6 September 2017 (UTC)
Would it be reasonable to view Irma as the most notable example of a Cape Verde which follows the Caribbean track? BrendonTheWizard ( talk) 19:28, 9 September 2017 (UTC)
I don't think Laura and Dorian were classic Cape Verde Hurricanes, they formed in the Central Atlantic, not close to the Cape Verde islands. Earl and Igor in 2010 were much more classic CV storms NSEasternShoreChemist, B.Sc. Questions/Comments? 00:05, 11 June 2023 (UTC)