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I don't expect that adding a standard NRHP infobox based on the National Register Information System database to the article would help, as there is a big infobox already developed. Here it is, though, in case there is any info from NRIS in it that could be used in the article, perhaps. doncram ( talk) 23:54, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
Canton Viaduct | |
Location | Neponset and Walpole Sts., Canton, Massachusetts |
---|---|
Coordinates | 42°9′28″N 71°9′17″W / 42.15778°N 71.15472°W |
Built | 1834 |
Architect | McNeill,William Gibbs; Dodd & Baldwin |
NRHP reference No. | 84002870 [1] |
Added to NRHP | September 20, 1984 |
This article lacks the benefits of an introductory section as described in WP:Lead. Page structure should generally follow WP:Layout. Hertz1888 ( talk) 18:18, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
With all due respect, I believe that six of the eight images currently in the gallery, of arches elsewhere, belong in another article, perhaps on architectural arches, that can be linked to, if not already linked. My opinion on this is not the last word, of course, but the inclusion here can be seen as tangential and distracting for the reader focusing on the Canton Viaduct as such. Hertz1888 ( talk) 21:05, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
Many of the images do not state their source (they state that they are Public Domain, but not specifically where they came from). Please do not ignore or simply remove the the tagging of those articles as needing sources--they really will be deleted if they are marked as needing sources and the actual source isn't provided promptly. For example, rather than just annotating a picture as being a being public-domain work of the United States Federal Government, mention the URL of the web-page from where this actual file was taken, some bibliographic information about a hard-copy that you scanned, or something like that. If an image is from your own personal collection, you are obviously free to release it as Public Domain, but please also annotate the image with an "I took this picture" statement so that others can know that you didn't just "borrow" a file from somewhere and republish it. It's sad-but-true is that some editors will "borrow" non-free material and simply upload it with a "this is free" claim, so we need some traceability to be able to verify those claims. Thanks! DMacks ( talk) 07:27, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
This photo is from the US Library of Congress's American Memory Collection, HABS/HAER: http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/displayPhoto.pl?path=/pnp/habshaer/ma/ma1200/ma1240/photos&topImages=076612pr.jpg&topLinks=076612pv.jpg,076612pu.tif&title=9.%20%20Boston%20%26%20Providence%20Railroad%3a%20Canton%20Viaduct.%20Canton,%20Norfolk%20Co.,%20MA.%20(Not%20on%20NEC).%20(See%20HAER%20No.%20MA-27%20for%20further%20documentation%20on%20this%20site).%20%3cbr%3eHAER%20MASS,13-BOST,83-9&displayProfile=0
This photo is legit so to be more specific Don - Why are you attacking me? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Canton Viaduct ( talk • contribs)
My bad Canton Viaduct ( talk) 23:14, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
Don - If this was such a critical part of Wikipedia's editorial policy then the fields would be required and since they are not it seems less a Wiki policy and more a DMacks policy.
Yup, looks like a bug that one can't have just a bulleted list in an infobox field because the first item's asterisk is treated as a real asterisk character instead of as a bullet. So for now we're stuck with <br>, which gives unusual whitespace if there's no other leading text. Affects many infobox types. Will see if infobox experts have a general solution. DMacks ( talk) 19:18, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
Could someone please center the text in the cornerstone captions. Also, if I could put these images in a table (not a Gallery) I wouldn't need to use all the <br>'s. I use them so the the succeeding sections don't get merged with the text associated with the picture (not the caption but the text next to it) THANKS!! Canton Viaduct ( talk) 23:09, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
This was in comment tags in the article, have moved it here Wongm ( talk) 12:01, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
Highway barriers, bridge guards - http://www.jim-shead.com/waterways/P09116.jpg
The U.S. Census Bureau map conspicuously lacks two of the most essential items, namely the Viaduct and the railroad. Perhaps someone with the proper graphics skills and software will modify this map to show them. Hertz1888 ( talk) 14:51, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
Done The Commons servers are still running slow, but thumbnail is fine.
Sswonk (
talk)
15:47, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
Regarding the text in the lead section, "The bridge has been in continuous service for 174 years (as of 2009) and now carries high-speed passenger and freight rail service." I am wondering if using the {{
age}} template here may make things easier and read better, i.e. {{age|1834|07|28}}
yields "The bridge has been in continuous service for 190 years and now carries high-speed passenger and freight rail service.", updated automatically every July 28. I assumed the date from the infobox is what would be used to calculate age.
Sswonk (
talk)
19:14, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
I corrected the lead paragraph and removed the explanatory image from the Geometry section. The error was that the circumference and diameter of a circle created by an extended Canton Viaduct was based on 1 degree = 615 feet. The measure used in surveying is 1 degree = 100 feet and thus the diameter stated (13.3 miles) was 6.15 times larger than actual (2.17 miles). I cited a railroad surveying guide for reference. Sswonk ( talk) 19:45, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
(od) The general agreement of three experienced editors is that the curvature of the viaduct is unremarkable and using a paragraph and image to show it isn't warranted. There are thousands upon thousands of curved roadways and sections of railway, cloverleaf structures, circular buildings, towers and the like in the world. Each article doesn't need to show how this is accomplished using wedges or masonry techniques; more general articles such as Arch and Arch bridge, for example, is where those kind of examples and writing are used. What is interesting and unique is the history of the Viaduct, the security and safety sections, the use of the structure as a town symbol: that's what should be improved, especially with many more citations and references. Most of what is unique has been written, now is the time to work on finding sources. Sswonk ( talk) 20:37, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
Canton Viaduct Geometry.PNG
Canton Viaduct Geometry2.PNG
US Census Bureau Map - Canton Viaduct.gif
Canton Viaduct Stonework.jpg
Also, where is the File:Canton Viaduct Repairs 1906.jpg file? If shows in the article but not in my gallery
Thank you
Canton Viaduct
{{db-author}}
. You can read about the template at
WP:CSD G7. This convinces the authorities (administrators) that the speedy deletion request is from you, and it will be deleted in a few minutes. BTW, I removed your personal email from a comment above this one, but it wasn't done because you did anything against the rules to include it. I just thought you weren't aware of the things that can happen with spammers, and what is discussed in
Wikipedia:Personal_security_practices. It's just a recommendation, please don't take it any other way.
Sswonk (
talk)
22:26, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
I edited this section and removed a sentence/phrase that said "which seems to contradict the use of ballast." Ballast is used to stabilize the tracks by adding mass to the assembly and absorbing vibration and movement. That the ballast would have a crown does not seem unusual, since it would make the ballast drain better and would help prevent loose material from collecting on the surface. If the track ballast's use is contradictory in some other way, you should explain it and it's relevance to the article. Otherwise, it is commentary and may not be appropriate. Overall, this section adds a lot of detail that may not be important enough to be kept in the article. Maybe an expert on railroads should review the article and edit it so it contains pertinent info on the unique construction features of the bridge's railway that are noteworthy.
I asked, using translation software, a question on the Russian wikipedia about the Russian bridges. A detailed response was received after a couple of weeks and posted at User talk:Sswonk#Canton viaduct in Russia. CV, I am also posting this link on your talk page. Sswonk ( talk) 14:56, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
This is confusing... normally a distinction is made between "Freemasons" (members of the fraternal order... sometimes referred to as "speculative masons") and stone masons (workmen who shape and build in stone... sometimes referred to as "operative masons"). This article confuses the two concepts. I think (from reading between the lines) what is being referred to in this article is a group of Freemasons who were also stone masons (or stone masons who happened to all be Freemasons), and will edit on that assumption. If I am incorrect, please clarify. In any case, calling them "Operative Freemasons" seems to be an invented term that is confusing. Blueboar ( talk) 14:01, 24 September 2010 (UTC)
There are a few factoids in the article that I think are irrelevant to the topic. I will discuss them one at a time... In the Foundation Stone section it states:
I have no reason to disbelieve the factoid about President Wales naming his ships with "Masonic names", but the factoid is irrelevant in the context of an article on the Viaduct. I propose that we not include it. I also propose that we move the statement about the Masonic membership of the Board members up to the opening paragraph (where we talk about the Masonic membership of the workmen). Since the Foundation Stone does not mention anyone's masonic membership (or Freemasonry), the statement is out of place in a section about the Foundation Stone. I will wait another few days for a response before I make these changes. Blueboar ( talk) 12:46, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
Bro. Ed, I would like to call your attention to WP:NPA and WP:OWN at this point. Whether he is welcomed or not is fairly irrelevant, and it's policy here that you should comment on edits, not the editors who make them. Thanks. S&F, SarekOfVulcan ( talk) 11:23, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
Regarding the caption for the picture of the Dedication stone...
I have a problem with the inclusion of the line:
First, it repeats the confusion between operative masonry (stone masonry), and speculative Masonry (or Freemasonry). The term "Craft" Freemsonry has nothing to do with opperative vs. speculative. The term is used (mostly in England) to distinguish basic freemasonry (the first three degrees) from the "further" degrees of the York and Scottish Rites. In the US we use the term "Blue Lodge" with the same meaning.
Second, while "Craft" Freemasonry does use the Anno Lucis calendar... it is an irrelevant factoid in the context of this article. There is no indication that the Dedication Stone at the Canton Aquiduct ever contained a Masonic, Anno Lucis date. So why bother mentioning it? Blueboar ( talk) 17:07, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
The introduction states that the viaduct was built by Scottish Freemasons. I'm not sure that this is a reasonable representation, as it then goes on to explain that the masons who built it were also Freemasons. That's not out of the question as the craft in Scotland was always somewhat different in tone, but the emphasis becomes very different from what it currently is. It wasn't built by a Masonic organisation per se.
I'm also somewhat concerned by some of the wording in the Freemasonry section. The article currently speculates about lodge membership in Ma, although there is neither sourcing nor clear analysis to support that. If some of the masons who built the viaduct were also Freemasons then we're left without some key information.
We could do with some clarity and change of emphasis. any thoughts on it?
ALR ( talk) 09:46, 1 October 2010 (UTC)
The caption for the picture of the front of the dedication stone reads:
My concern is with the sentence I have highlighted in bold. The keystone is somewhat symbolic in Freemasonry (although that symbology is limited to the York Rite)... and the viaduct may have 77 keystones... but placing them together like this makes it seem as if the two facts are connected when there is no evidence that they are. Furthermore, there is no evidence that the key stone under the Dedication Stone has any connection to Freemasonry. This is a WP:SYNTH violation, but one that is resolved easily by removing the sentence. Any objections? Blueboar ( talk) 14:03, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
With recent edits by myself and SarekOfVulcan, the sub-section on Construction no longer mentions anything about Freemasonry. It is therefor a little odd to keep as a sub-section within the section on Freemasonry. I think it should therefor be moved out of that section, and should be promoted into a section on its own. Blueboar ( talk) 18:04, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
Only two issues with this section... The text currently says: "The Dedication Stone was originally topped with a 63" long × 8" high × 24" wide capstone with double beveled edges, creating an octagonal profile. The capstone has been missing since 1860 and may have had a Masonic engraving." My first issue is with geometry... since the Dedication Stone is a rectangle, the addition of a capstone with double beveled edges would create an irregular hexagon, not an octagon. You would need another double beveled stone at the base to form an octagon. My second issue is with the end of the passage... "and may have had a Masonic engraving"... This is tagged as needing a source. Without a source it is complete speculation. Who says it may have had a Masonic engraving?
I will correct the octagonal/hexagonal confusion... although, to be honest, I would prefer to simply delete the clause all together, as I think the the geometric profile (whether hexagonal or octagonal) formed with the capstone is trivial.
Since the speculation about engraving is tagged, I will give other editors some additional time to find a source. But if one is not found within a month or two, I will remove it as being original research. Blueboar ( talk) 13:16, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
Why is the infobox humongous? The infobox is a summary of the article, not the place to describe each and every one of the topic's characteristics. For instance, "number of spans", it should just say 71. If you want to describe all of them, write about it. If its not in the body, it shouldn't be in the infobox. 74.104.40.47 ( talk) 01:55, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
First of all, let me say that this article has got to be one of the best, most comprehensive articles on Wikipedia I have ever read. It is just unbelievable.
I have complained elsewhere about the pathetic quality of Wikipedia articles. Hence, it's doubly ironic that this article has been given not one, but multiple quality grades of 'Start'. Does this intend to imply that this article not only needs improvement, but *immense* improvement? If so, whoever is responsible for assigning these grades has committed one of the grossest insults I have seen committed on Wikipedia. Elsewhere on this site are articles having one-tenth the content of this one, written in middle-school English by armchair experts, which have been given an equally undeservedly-high score of 'B'. So when this article's referees come back from their three-handcrafted-ale lunch, perhaps they can tell me why an article like this, which covers seemingly every imaginable angle of this topic--technological, historical, civic, and more--with numerous professional-looking graphics, passes in your eyes for 'Start' quality. I mean, where are the crummily written sentences that need to be fixed? Where's the absence of depth? Are you instead saying that the article has too much content, and needs to be cut back? If so, that premise is unacceptable. We want Wikipedia to be a base for all knowledge. So let us write. Unless I'm missing something here (which is definitely possible), I think it's pathetic.
At any rate, the link at bottom labelled 'Russian American Cultural Center of Boston' is bogus. In fact it's doubly bogus: Not only does it take you to one of those 'You can buy this URL for $19.95' sites, it insidiously blocks your browser's Back button so you can't return to the article. (For decades, I have bitterly objected to Microsoft's crummy philosophy that the user's very ability to control his own UI (user interface), on his own computer, can be hijacked by the mere *content* which the app happens to be displaying at any given moment. I have programmer friends who tell me, Well, it's in the nature of HTML for that to happen. BULL-shyte. Then program the stupid browser to let the user override it. It would be as if Microsoft Word became incapable of certain user functions depending upon the topic you're writing about. When it comes to browser function, if you tell it to walk you to work, you must let it carry your lunch as well.)
So delete this link immediately.
And my congratulations to the creator(s) of this fine article.
--Jim Luedke Jimlue ( talk) 04:42, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
This entry is long. It is 2500 words longer than the entry on The Golden Gate Bridge. I don't mean to minimize the importance of the Canton Viaduct, but really, do we need multiple Lego models? Hobga ( talk) 04:11, 21 February 2012 (UTC)
D&B is the company that constructed the Viaduct. User:Deadbolt44 tagged D&B for notability last December. Today, User:BD2412 worked on the D&B page, then tagged it for merger into the Viaduct article with an edit-summary "the architects can be confirmed to have existed and done this job, but I have found nothing else whatsoever.". I support the merger. DMacks ( talk) 04:40, 27 March 2020 (UTC)
Do we necessarily need eleven photos of a lego model of this bridge? One or two would suffice, no? 2600:8805:8083:100:1534:43EF:853C:D127 ( talk) 19:34, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
![]() | The contents of the Dodd & Baldwin page were merged into Canton Viaduct on 17 October 2020. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see its history; for the discussion at that location, see its talk page. |
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Canton Viaduct article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
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I don't expect that adding a standard NRHP infobox based on the National Register Information System database to the article would help, as there is a big infobox already developed. Here it is, though, in case there is any info from NRIS in it that could be used in the article, perhaps. doncram ( talk) 23:54, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
Canton Viaduct | |
Location | Neponset and Walpole Sts., Canton, Massachusetts |
---|---|
Coordinates | 42°9′28″N 71°9′17″W / 42.15778°N 71.15472°W |
Built | 1834 |
Architect | McNeill,William Gibbs; Dodd & Baldwin |
NRHP reference No. | 84002870 [1] |
Added to NRHP | September 20, 1984 |
This article lacks the benefits of an introductory section as described in WP:Lead. Page structure should generally follow WP:Layout. Hertz1888 ( talk) 18:18, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
With all due respect, I believe that six of the eight images currently in the gallery, of arches elsewhere, belong in another article, perhaps on architectural arches, that can be linked to, if not already linked. My opinion on this is not the last word, of course, but the inclusion here can be seen as tangential and distracting for the reader focusing on the Canton Viaduct as such. Hertz1888 ( talk) 21:05, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
Many of the images do not state their source (they state that they are Public Domain, but not specifically where they came from). Please do not ignore or simply remove the the tagging of those articles as needing sources--they really will be deleted if they are marked as needing sources and the actual source isn't provided promptly. For example, rather than just annotating a picture as being a being public-domain work of the United States Federal Government, mention the URL of the web-page from where this actual file was taken, some bibliographic information about a hard-copy that you scanned, or something like that. If an image is from your own personal collection, you are obviously free to release it as Public Domain, but please also annotate the image with an "I took this picture" statement so that others can know that you didn't just "borrow" a file from somewhere and republish it. It's sad-but-true is that some editors will "borrow" non-free material and simply upload it with a "this is free" claim, so we need some traceability to be able to verify those claims. Thanks! DMacks ( talk) 07:27, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
This photo is from the US Library of Congress's American Memory Collection, HABS/HAER: http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/displayPhoto.pl?path=/pnp/habshaer/ma/ma1200/ma1240/photos&topImages=076612pr.jpg&topLinks=076612pv.jpg,076612pu.tif&title=9.%20%20Boston%20%26%20Providence%20Railroad%3a%20Canton%20Viaduct.%20Canton,%20Norfolk%20Co.,%20MA.%20(Not%20on%20NEC).%20(See%20HAER%20No.%20MA-27%20for%20further%20documentation%20on%20this%20site).%20%3cbr%3eHAER%20MASS,13-BOST,83-9&displayProfile=0
This photo is legit so to be more specific Don - Why are you attacking me? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Canton Viaduct ( talk • contribs)
My bad Canton Viaduct ( talk) 23:14, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
Don - If this was such a critical part of Wikipedia's editorial policy then the fields would be required and since they are not it seems less a Wiki policy and more a DMacks policy.
Yup, looks like a bug that one can't have just a bulleted list in an infobox field because the first item's asterisk is treated as a real asterisk character instead of as a bullet. So for now we're stuck with <br>, which gives unusual whitespace if there's no other leading text. Affects many infobox types. Will see if infobox experts have a general solution. DMacks ( talk) 19:18, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
Could someone please center the text in the cornerstone captions. Also, if I could put these images in a table (not a Gallery) I wouldn't need to use all the <br>'s. I use them so the the succeeding sections don't get merged with the text associated with the picture (not the caption but the text next to it) THANKS!! Canton Viaduct ( talk) 23:09, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
This was in comment tags in the article, have moved it here Wongm ( talk) 12:01, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
Highway barriers, bridge guards - http://www.jim-shead.com/waterways/P09116.jpg
The U.S. Census Bureau map conspicuously lacks two of the most essential items, namely the Viaduct and the railroad. Perhaps someone with the proper graphics skills and software will modify this map to show them. Hertz1888 ( talk) 14:51, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
Done The Commons servers are still running slow, but thumbnail is fine.
Sswonk (
talk)
15:47, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
Regarding the text in the lead section, "The bridge has been in continuous service for 174 years (as of 2009) and now carries high-speed passenger and freight rail service." I am wondering if using the {{
age}} template here may make things easier and read better, i.e. {{age|1834|07|28}}
yields "The bridge has been in continuous service for 190 years and now carries high-speed passenger and freight rail service.", updated automatically every July 28. I assumed the date from the infobox is what would be used to calculate age.
Sswonk (
talk)
19:14, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
I corrected the lead paragraph and removed the explanatory image from the Geometry section. The error was that the circumference and diameter of a circle created by an extended Canton Viaduct was based on 1 degree = 615 feet. The measure used in surveying is 1 degree = 100 feet and thus the diameter stated (13.3 miles) was 6.15 times larger than actual (2.17 miles). I cited a railroad surveying guide for reference. Sswonk ( talk) 19:45, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
(od) The general agreement of three experienced editors is that the curvature of the viaduct is unremarkable and using a paragraph and image to show it isn't warranted. There are thousands upon thousands of curved roadways and sections of railway, cloverleaf structures, circular buildings, towers and the like in the world. Each article doesn't need to show how this is accomplished using wedges or masonry techniques; more general articles such as Arch and Arch bridge, for example, is where those kind of examples and writing are used. What is interesting and unique is the history of the Viaduct, the security and safety sections, the use of the structure as a town symbol: that's what should be improved, especially with many more citations and references. Most of what is unique has been written, now is the time to work on finding sources. Sswonk ( talk) 20:37, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
Canton Viaduct Geometry.PNG
Canton Viaduct Geometry2.PNG
US Census Bureau Map - Canton Viaduct.gif
Canton Viaduct Stonework.jpg
Also, where is the File:Canton Viaduct Repairs 1906.jpg file? If shows in the article but not in my gallery
Thank you
Canton Viaduct
{{db-author}}
. You can read about the template at
WP:CSD G7. This convinces the authorities (administrators) that the speedy deletion request is from you, and it will be deleted in a few minutes. BTW, I removed your personal email from a comment above this one, but it wasn't done because you did anything against the rules to include it. I just thought you weren't aware of the things that can happen with spammers, and what is discussed in
Wikipedia:Personal_security_practices. It's just a recommendation, please don't take it any other way.
Sswonk (
talk)
22:26, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
I edited this section and removed a sentence/phrase that said "which seems to contradict the use of ballast." Ballast is used to stabilize the tracks by adding mass to the assembly and absorbing vibration and movement. That the ballast would have a crown does not seem unusual, since it would make the ballast drain better and would help prevent loose material from collecting on the surface. If the track ballast's use is contradictory in some other way, you should explain it and it's relevance to the article. Otherwise, it is commentary and may not be appropriate. Overall, this section adds a lot of detail that may not be important enough to be kept in the article. Maybe an expert on railroads should review the article and edit it so it contains pertinent info on the unique construction features of the bridge's railway that are noteworthy.
I asked, using translation software, a question on the Russian wikipedia about the Russian bridges. A detailed response was received after a couple of weeks and posted at User talk:Sswonk#Canton viaduct in Russia. CV, I am also posting this link on your talk page. Sswonk ( talk) 14:56, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
This is confusing... normally a distinction is made between "Freemasons" (members of the fraternal order... sometimes referred to as "speculative masons") and stone masons (workmen who shape and build in stone... sometimes referred to as "operative masons"). This article confuses the two concepts. I think (from reading between the lines) what is being referred to in this article is a group of Freemasons who were also stone masons (or stone masons who happened to all be Freemasons), and will edit on that assumption. If I am incorrect, please clarify. In any case, calling them "Operative Freemasons" seems to be an invented term that is confusing. Blueboar ( talk) 14:01, 24 September 2010 (UTC)
There are a few factoids in the article that I think are irrelevant to the topic. I will discuss them one at a time... In the Foundation Stone section it states:
I have no reason to disbelieve the factoid about President Wales naming his ships with "Masonic names", but the factoid is irrelevant in the context of an article on the Viaduct. I propose that we not include it. I also propose that we move the statement about the Masonic membership of the Board members up to the opening paragraph (where we talk about the Masonic membership of the workmen). Since the Foundation Stone does not mention anyone's masonic membership (or Freemasonry), the statement is out of place in a section about the Foundation Stone. I will wait another few days for a response before I make these changes. Blueboar ( talk) 12:46, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
Bro. Ed, I would like to call your attention to WP:NPA and WP:OWN at this point. Whether he is welcomed or not is fairly irrelevant, and it's policy here that you should comment on edits, not the editors who make them. Thanks. S&F, SarekOfVulcan ( talk) 11:23, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
Regarding the caption for the picture of the Dedication stone...
I have a problem with the inclusion of the line:
First, it repeats the confusion between operative masonry (stone masonry), and speculative Masonry (or Freemasonry). The term "Craft" Freemsonry has nothing to do with opperative vs. speculative. The term is used (mostly in England) to distinguish basic freemasonry (the first three degrees) from the "further" degrees of the York and Scottish Rites. In the US we use the term "Blue Lodge" with the same meaning.
Second, while "Craft" Freemasonry does use the Anno Lucis calendar... it is an irrelevant factoid in the context of this article. There is no indication that the Dedication Stone at the Canton Aquiduct ever contained a Masonic, Anno Lucis date. So why bother mentioning it? Blueboar ( talk) 17:07, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
The introduction states that the viaduct was built by Scottish Freemasons. I'm not sure that this is a reasonable representation, as it then goes on to explain that the masons who built it were also Freemasons. That's not out of the question as the craft in Scotland was always somewhat different in tone, but the emphasis becomes very different from what it currently is. It wasn't built by a Masonic organisation per se.
I'm also somewhat concerned by some of the wording in the Freemasonry section. The article currently speculates about lodge membership in Ma, although there is neither sourcing nor clear analysis to support that. If some of the masons who built the viaduct were also Freemasons then we're left without some key information.
We could do with some clarity and change of emphasis. any thoughts on it?
ALR ( talk) 09:46, 1 October 2010 (UTC)
The caption for the picture of the front of the dedication stone reads:
My concern is with the sentence I have highlighted in bold. The keystone is somewhat symbolic in Freemasonry (although that symbology is limited to the York Rite)... and the viaduct may have 77 keystones... but placing them together like this makes it seem as if the two facts are connected when there is no evidence that they are. Furthermore, there is no evidence that the key stone under the Dedication Stone has any connection to Freemasonry. This is a WP:SYNTH violation, but one that is resolved easily by removing the sentence. Any objections? Blueboar ( talk) 14:03, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
With recent edits by myself and SarekOfVulcan, the sub-section on Construction no longer mentions anything about Freemasonry. It is therefor a little odd to keep as a sub-section within the section on Freemasonry. I think it should therefor be moved out of that section, and should be promoted into a section on its own. Blueboar ( talk) 18:04, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
Only two issues with this section... The text currently says: "The Dedication Stone was originally topped with a 63" long × 8" high × 24" wide capstone with double beveled edges, creating an octagonal profile. The capstone has been missing since 1860 and may have had a Masonic engraving." My first issue is with geometry... since the Dedication Stone is a rectangle, the addition of a capstone with double beveled edges would create an irregular hexagon, not an octagon. You would need another double beveled stone at the base to form an octagon. My second issue is with the end of the passage... "and may have had a Masonic engraving"... This is tagged as needing a source. Without a source it is complete speculation. Who says it may have had a Masonic engraving?
I will correct the octagonal/hexagonal confusion... although, to be honest, I would prefer to simply delete the clause all together, as I think the the geometric profile (whether hexagonal or octagonal) formed with the capstone is trivial.
Since the speculation about engraving is tagged, I will give other editors some additional time to find a source. But if one is not found within a month or two, I will remove it as being original research. Blueboar ( talk) 13:16, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
Why is the infobox humongous? The infobox is a summary of the article, not the place to describe each and every one of the topic's characteristics. For instance, "number of spans", it should just say 71. If you want to describe all of them, write about it. If its not in the body, it shouldn't be in the infobox. 74.104.40.47 ( talk) 01:55, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
First of all, let me say that this article has got to be one of the best, most comprehensive articles on Wikipedia I have ever read. It is just unbelievable.
I have complained elsewhere about the pathetic quality of Wikipedia articles. Hence, it's doubly ironic that this article has been given not one, but multiple quality grades of 'Start'. Does this intend to imply that this article not only needs improvement, but *immense* improvement? If so, whoever is responsible for assigning these grades has committed one of the grossest insults I have seen committed on Wikipedia. Elsewhere on this site are articles having one-tenth the content of this one, written in middle-school English by armchair experts, which have been given an equally undeservedly-high score of 'B'. So when this article's referees come back from their three-handcrafted-ale lunch, perhaps they can tell me why an article like this, which covers seemingly every imaginable angle of this topic--technological, historical, civic, and more--with numerous professional-looking graphics, passes in your eyes for 'Start' quality. I mean, where are the crummily written sentences that need to be fixed? Where's the absence of depth? Are you instead saying that the article has too much content, and needs to be cut back? If so, that premise is unacceptable. We want Wikipedia to be a base for all knowledge. So let us write. Unless I'm missing something here (which is definitely possible), I think it's pathetic.
At any rate, the link at bottom labelled 'Russian American Cultural Center of Boston' is bogus. In fact it's doubly bogus: Not only does it take you to one of those 'You can buy this URL for $19.95' sites, it insidiously blocks your browser's Back button so you can't return to the article. (For decades, I have bitterly objected to Microsoft's crummy philosophy that the user's very ability to control his own UI (user interface), on his own computer, can be hijacked by the mere *content* which the app happens to be displaying at any given moment. I have programmer friends who tell me, Well, it's in the nature of HTML for that to happen. BULL-shyte. Then program the stupid browser to let the user override it. It would be as if Microsoft Word became incapable of certain user functions depending upon the topic you're writing about. When it comes to browser function, if you tell it to walk you to work, you must let it carry your lunch as well.)
So delete this link immediately.
And my congratulations to the creator(s) of this fine article.
--Jim Luedke Jimlue ( talk) 04:42, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
This entry is long. It is 2500 words longer than the entry on The Golden Gate Bridge. I don't mean to minimize the importance of the Canton Viaduct, but really, do we need multiple Lego models? Hobga ( talk) 04:11, 21 February 2012 (UTC)
D&B is the company that constructed the Viaduct. User:Deadbolt44 tagged D&B for notability last December. Today, User:BD2412 worked on the D&B page, then tagged it for merger into the Viaduct article with an edit-summary "the architects can be confirmed to have existed and done this job, but I have found nothing else whatsoever.". I support the merger. DMacks ( talk) 04:40, 27 March 2020 (UTC)
Do we necessarily need eleven photos of a lego model of this bridge? One or two would suffice, no? 2600:8805:8083:100:1534:43EF:853C:D127 ( talk) 19:34, 4 July 2022 (UTC)