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I'm not sure if the tag "radio stub" would be correct. Foxjwill 01:20, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
Wavelength at 1000 kHz most certainly is not 300 m, it's 30 cm. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.171.67.58 ( talk) 09:17, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
The antenna described in article is a "mast radiator" type of antenna, not a "cage aerial" or a cage dipole. True, the mast is a cage, but that is not the typical meaning of the term. A "cage dipole" is constructed similar to a standard dipole, and may be either vertical or horizontally polarized. The elements are constructed of multiple conductors arranged around spreader-forms. Electrically the multiple conductors appear as one larger diameter conductor, increasing resonate bandwidth. The trade off is found in increased weight, and wind resistance.
Example: http://www.ni4l.com/80-75-meter-cage-dipole-1/
http://n3ujj.com/the_N3UJJ_antenna_project.html
The Soviet Union's Duga radar was a very large array of caged dipoles : /info/en/?search=Duga_radar
The Pipers Bag ( talk) 16:09, 24 October 2020 (UTC)
There is no single type of antenna called a "cage aerial". This article lumps together a number of antennas that already have their own articles. A monopole mast cage antenna, the main type this article covers, is called a Folded unipole antenna. A cage antenna in the shape of a "T", as in the picture, is called a cage T antenna and is already discussed in that article. A dipole antenna in the shape of a cage is called a cage dipole and is discussed in that article. This article may be a WP:POVFORK or just redundant, but either way it needs to be merged. -- Chetvorno TALK 00:43, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
Under no circumstances should a cage antenna (or cage element) article be merged with the folded unipole antenna. Like many superficially similar-looking antennas (large loop / halo / small loop; half-loop / half square, both called a Π antenna; center-fed dipole / Carolina Windom; fan dipole / bow-tie antenna) the two antennas are electrically dissimilar.
The clearest distinction I can think of is that a cage element in a vertical or horizontal antenna always has no current running through its center, and usually has no center-line. A folded unipole always has net current flowing in the mast (its "center wire") in a direction contrary to the net current flowing in the outer skirt wires; it only can radiate when those two currents are unbalanced, usually managed by contriving a resonant path that excludes either the central mast or the skirt.
It is part of the design & configuration of the skirt wires that directs the majority of the current to flow either on the inside mast or outside skirt wires, and only in the particular case that one has managed to convince the unbalanced current that it would rather flow on the outside that the unbalanced antenna currents simulate a cage antenna. It is one of the operational modes of a unipole, but the unipole can still be adjusted to operate as a mast radiator, in which case the skirt wires act more like a multi-gamma match than a cage.
A folded unipole always has the need to design-in some way to unbalance the currents in the mast and the skirt wires. A quarter-wave vertical cage antenna never needs any such considerations: There is no central current to unbalance.
It is indeed a very insightful to observe the connection between the two different antenna types, but then again, many antennas are visibly very similar but electricialy different. Steer clear of the folded unipole article.
Astro-Tom-ical ( talk) (K7TLI) 04:17, 23 April 2023 (UTC)
From discussion in section Talk:Cage aerial#No no no no NO: Bad idea above, changed merger tags to propose this article be merged into Monopole antenna and Dipole antenna. -- Chetvorno TALK 23:20, 7 May 2023 (UTC)
In contradiction to the unsourced claim in the Purpose section, the cage folded unipole antenna, the main type of antenna this article covers, does not have wider bandwidth than an ordinary mast radiator without the cage wires, according to papers presenting tests on actual antennas by Rackley & Cox and Cox & Moser -- Chetvorno TALK 01:15, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Cage aerial article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article is rated Stub-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | It is requested that an image or photograph of Cage aerial be
included in this article to
improve its quality. Please replace this template with a more specific
media request template where possible.
The Free Image Search Tool or Openverse Creative Commons Search may be able to locate suitable images on Flickr and other web sites. |
I'm not sure if the tag "radio stub" would be correct. Foxjwill 01:20, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
Wavelength at 1000 kHz most certainly is not 300 m, it's 30 cm. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.171.67.58 ( talk) 09:17, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
The antenna described in article is a "mast radiator" type of antenna, not a "cage aerial" or a cage dipole. True, the mast is a cage, but that is not the typical meaning of the term. A "cage dipole" is constructed similar to a standard dipole, and may be either vertical or horizontally polarized. The elements are constructed of multiple conductors arranged around spreader-forms. Electrically the multiple conductors appear as one larger diameter conductor, increasing resonate bandwidth. The trade off is found in increased weight, and wind resistance.
Example: http://www.ni4l.com/80-75-meter-cage-dipole-1/
http://n3ujj.com/the_N3UJJ_antenna_project.html
The Soviet Union's Duga radar was a very large array of caged dipoles : /info/en/?search=Duga_radar
The Pipers Bag ( talk) 16:09, 24 October 2020 (UTC)
There is no single type of antenna called a "cage aerial". This article lumps together a number of antennas that already have their own articles. A monopole mast cage antenna, the main type this article covers, is called a Folded unipole antenna. A cage antenna in the shape of a "T", as in the picture, is called a cage T antenna and is already discussed in that article. A dipole antenna in the shape of a cage is called a cage dipole and is discussed in that article. This article may be a WP:POVFORK or just redundant, but either way it needs to be merged. -- Chetvorno TALK 00:43, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
Under no circumstances should a cage antenna (or cage element) article be merged with the folded unipole antenna. Like many superficially similar-looking antennas (large loop / halo / small loop; half-loop / half square, both called a Π antenna; center-fed dipole / Carolina Windom; fan dipole / bow-tie antenna) the two antennas are electrically dissimilar.
The clearest distinction I can think of is that a cage element in a vertical or horizontal antenna always has no current running through its center, and usually has no center-line. A folded unipole always has net current flowing in the mast (its "center wire") in a direction contrary to the net current flowing in the outer skirt wires; it only can radiate when those two currents are unbalanced, usually managed by contriving a resonant path that excludes either the central mast or the skirt.
It is part of the design & configuration of the skirt wires that directs the majority of the current to flow either on the inside mast or outside skirt wires, and only in the particular case that one has managed to convince the unbalanced current that it would rather flow on the outside that the unbalanced antenna currents simulate a cage antenna. It is one of the operational modes of a unipole, but the unipole can still be adjusted to operate as a mast radiator, in which case the skirt wires act more like a multi-gamma match than a cage.
A folded unipole always has the need to design-in some way to unbalance the currents in the mast and the skirt wires. A quarter-wave vertical cage antenna never needs any such considerations: There is no central current to unbalance.
It is indeed a very insightful to observe the connection between the two different antenna types, but then again, many antennas are visibly very similar but electricialy different. Steer clear of the folded unipole article.
Astro-Tom-ical ( talk) (K7TLI) 04:17, 23 April 2023 (UTC)
From discussion in section Talk:Cage aerial#No no no no NO: Bad idea above, changed merger tags to propose this article be merged into Monopole antenna and Dipole antenna. -- Chetvorno TALK 23:20, 7 May 2023 (UTC)
In contradiction to the unsourced claim in the Purpose section, the cage folded unipole antenna, the main type of antenna this article covers, does not have wider bandwidth than an ordinary mast radiator without the cage wires, according to papers presenting tests on actual antennas by Rackley & Cox and Cox & Moser -- Chetvorno TALK 01:15, 14 March 2023 (UTC)