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I disagree with that. There are at least two, different, but quite specific, definitions of "cable car". One is a cabin suspended along a cable in the sky, pulled by that cable. The other is a light rail system using a cable in the road to pull the light rail cars along. Rather than saying that, the article should differentiate the two different senses of this word. -- SJK
Two questions:
I live in Sydney and I've been to Melbourne and I've never seen cable cars in either... except if you count roller coasters. Where are they? And where did the original author get this amazingly accurate list? -- Tim
A Cable Car on rails is not a vertical mover. Eg. one of the most succesful networks was Chicago. A cable car can go nearly anywhere, as long as there's a cable to pull. That's quite different from the possibilities of the funicular, and it's the latter that should be categorized vertical transport system. Aliter 14:57, 17 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Should San Francisco be in the 'previous' list? I believe some of its lines have indeed ceased, but the list title stresses cities, rather than lines.
We probably should add a bit more of the mechanics, as for Axel Boldt's question above. Aliter 19:06, 11 Dec 2004 (UTC)
I added both Kansas City and Denver to the list of cities previously having cable cars. Both cities switched to trolleys that were later also abandoned in favor of buses. Gwimpey 22:56, Dec 14, 2004 (UTC)
San Francisco isn't the only city using cable cars! Wellington, New Zealand runs a line between the central city and the university area. I've amended the article to accommodate this. Grutness| hello?
OK - if that's the case it shouldn't be here... but perhaps there needs to be some explanation of the exact differences between the two. ISTR that Wellingon's is driven by a "wheelhouse" and the cars grip onto the moving cable, which is pretty much what it gives as a definition here. Meanwhile the cable cars listed for Dunedin were IIRC run by individual motors like trams, but on a cable (contrary to the definitions here). I'm now thoroughly confused as to which is which. Grutness| hello? 05:30, 30 Dec 2004 (UTC)
I changed the title of this to conform to the style that articles should be titled to what they describe. There is no public or industry nomenclature of a "cable car on rails" (i.e., no one call it that), and the name is a little awkward. It sounds like a rock group, like Death Cab for Cutie. I will fix the redirects. -- Cecropia | explains it all ® 03:43, 30 Dec 2004 (UTC)
These are a great improvement on what went before. I have made a few further changes, explanation here:
-- Chris j wood 13:03, 30 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Though I don't mind the details of every line being treated in separate articles, which was actually why I made every line a link, the details I did mention in this article gave a development of the cable car. If most people prefer a list of "In <year> the <technique> was introduced by the <line> to make <feature> possible.", that's OK with me. But don't move out the development details entirely, as that returns us to the "Some bloke in San Francisco one day thought up the Cable Car as it runs today", which I wanted to refute. Aliter 00:12, 2 Jan 2005 (UTC)
I have no problem with blunt. It has that it's your opinion, and it also happens to be mine. I knew that in the process I was reversing several changes that improved the look of the article, but in my opinion hid information. I probably overdid it a bit, but for a mostly historical topic the article drifts remarkably fast, so I saw no better solution than to make as much explicite as I could recall. (I think Denver used to have a spare cable running through the vault, and there was a system that had powered cars, but I can't recall the details.) I just hoped that if I pulled it all together into a historical development, we would afterwards be able to improve the readability again without losing that part. If you say your edits will do that, then they're fine with me. (Horizontal movers with cable car technology were added just after I changed the article. They were a surprise for me too.) Aliter 16:52, 2 Jan 2005 (UTC)
I am the "guilty" party who inserted the small parts about the automated cable cars-people movers in this and other related articles, such as the one on the town of Laon. Right after doing so I wondered if I sould not have mentioned that there is another big manufacturer, Doppelmayr, in addition to Poma-Otis, even if Doppelmayr has only three installations (and Doppelmayr does much more business with its funiculars and ski lifts than with its true cable cars)because this way it would have seemed less likely that this might be an ad for Poma-Otis. But before I could change anything these artciles went thoough massive restructurings! I think I will wait till the dust settles before I do any form of change. -- AlainV 00:11, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Regarding the nonn-technical details - Most of them were still there in the modified article, just not collected in a single spot. Some may have been replaced by a fact refuting their claim, though.
Regarding the line details - I dropped some details about the lines from the article and left out many more, but I hope those, being more relevant to the individual lines than to the topic of Cable Cars, will create many pages on specific Cable Car lines.
Regarding the sources - I don't recall; they were quite some time ago. But it's quite easy to compare the historical line with the current lines. The current grips are a later design. The California cars were a later design, let-go curves and pull-curves were later additions. The slot-brake was a later invention. What's left is mostly the concepts of detachable cars and the grip. The former existed in New York, though I admit that I have never seen Hallidie's 1867 patent, and have only assumed it was about furnicular-style. This would leave the grip. That is indeed an immense improvement over the earlier collar and claws system, and it is enough to make Hallidie a leader in his field, just not a hero.
Mind you, what I see in Hallidie's biographies is a liar and meddler, who thought himself superior to others, and whose success stemmed from his fathers invention of steel cable. That would be just the person to take over the franchise and the design, lie about his first run after he himself ran out of time, and finally patent the technology he had taken over. But I did not write that in the article; all I wrote there is that it's unknown how much of the earlier design was used. I expect the museum is unintentionally prejudiced, being in the city itself, but if they have the notes of Brooke, of course, we should adapt the article accordingly. As you mentioned the cable guy I looked him up as well; he has a newspaper article on Brooks, which refers to Brooke as the true inventor. Maybe that would give more information.
There was a suggestion that I could have discussed the changes first. That is true; it is unfortunate that I choose to do as those that went before me.
Aliter 16:52, 2 Jan 2005 (UTC)
My compliments for Chris' syncretic skills, which created a superior article. Through the contributions of all of us, we've taken the article well beyond this version of just 15 days ago. Aliter 15:58, 14 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Since SF-style cable cars still exist today, what happens when they come to minor grief is more than an academic question. I'm referring to cases like hitting a dead spot (i.e., stopped at a location where it is impossible to pick up the cable) or derailment.
In the latter case, I actually saw a derailment, at the turntable at the end of the Powell-Hyde Line. This took place in 1982, before it was all rebuilt. I couldn't get clear as to the cause, I thinkit was a slight misaligment of the turntable with the track stub, aggrevated by the poor condition of everything. I do recall a nearby German tourist commenting something about the "stupid incompetent Americans" as though he were watching a badly designed carnival ride. (His comment was in German, but my wife translated for me). In that case, all that was needed was to lever the car back onto the tracks.
Now I assume that we simply get out and push if you're on a dead spot, but remembering the steepness of the hills, that seems like that could cause too much excitement (as it were) if the pushing was done at the intersection of California and Powell if the cable weren't picked up smoothly. Anyone know what current protocol is? I think it would be worth mentioning in the article. -- Cecropia | explains it all ® 20:00, 6 Jan 2005 (UTC)
I have added this cable tramway, despite the fact that it isn't in a city, as I think it is significant.-- John 11:18, 12 October 2005 (UTC)
I can find no reference to this in a web search. Susvolans ⇔ 18:07, 22 November 2005 (UTC)
Hey, no need to look elsewhere: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memphis_Area_Transit_Authority 16:47, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
There's no information anywhere (not even Wikipedia itself!) that Memphis has anything other than electric streetcars or buses - neither of which are cable cars. I've removed that claim. Kesmet 21:15, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
This article and
Tram have been tagged for merger. Obviously since a cable car is a kind of tram that would mean merging this article to Tram.(It is noted below that not all cable cars are trams. Note also that not all trams are cable cars. So they'd both have to be merged under a different title. All the more reason not to merge.) The problem (other) is that this article is about 15 kilobytes & Tram is about 32 kilobytes. If they were merged, either some heavy trimming would have to be done or we'd produce a huge article. I therefore oppose any merger.
J
i
m
p
17:52, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
I'm proposing a small re-organization of articles including this one at: Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Trains#Cable_railways:_a_proposal. I'd be grateful for your thoughts. Please post comment to Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Trains#Cable_railways:_a_proposal to keep the discussion in one place. Many thanks, —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gwernol ( talk • contribs) 18:50, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
I believe the line, "The only moving National Historic Landmark in the United States..." to be incorrect. The Wiki entry for San Francisco cable car system states, "The San Francisco cable cars are one of two moving National Historic Landmarks, along with Mystic Seaport Museum's steamship Sabino." Reference: Report on San Francisco's Cable Cars, San Francisco Beautiful May 2007 Dick Kimball ( talk) 20:16, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
Sometime between late 2006 (when I last edited this article) and now, the Laon Poma 2000 link has migrated from 'Cities currently operating cable cars' to 'Cities previously operating cable cars'. When and why did this line close?. -- Starbois ( talk) 13:31, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
Given the previous discussion about Wellington having a funicular, surely it should be removed from Cities Previously Operating Cable Cars, as the system has not fundamentally changed. While it is a hybrid it either should be in here as a current system, or removed as it is considered a funicular. It cannot be a former system if it is still running with the same characteristics as it always has done. Libertyscott ( talk) 14:47, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
How do the cable-cars go around corners/curves in the street? If there cable is adjusted with a guidance-wheel the clutch-thingy would damage the wheel or make the cable derail, right? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.229.200.50 ( talk) 10:02, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
User:Goldensmith recently added the following:
However a brief web search suggests that neither city ever operated cable cars. See for example, http://2bangkok.com/2bangkok-Tram-overview.shtml and http://2bangkok.com/2bangkok-tram-lopburi.html.
What is more, the illustration included in the article and above is clearly of an electric car.
I have reverted the addition. If I've missed something, please re-add with cites showing these were cable cars. -- chris_j_wood ( talk) 12:38, 3 November 2011 (UTC)
Why is http://www.cable-car-guy.com blacklisted as a link? Sammy D III ( talk) 16:10, 27 August 2013 (UTC)
It is all very well to mention the cities in which the cable car railways were located, but what about the actual names of the systems in the list of cable car systems? Peter Horn User talk 14:52, 7 September 2013 (UTC)
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ArnoldReinhold: Hello Arnld,
Cable car (railway)# Modern cable car systems Most links here go to the cities without giving the name and describing the system in that city. Not helpful.
Rgds,
Peter Horn
User talk
20:00, 19 April 2018 (UTC)
I'm experiencing the same overshoot problem with Safari on a MacBook laptop. I tried a few edits to the target article to fix it, but they did not help. The modern examples do seem to be Cable Liner systems. I know of one more that has since closed that isn't, I may add it later.-- agr ( talk) 14:47, 23 April 2018 (UTC)
This is listed as a B-class article that has had an inline "citation needed" tag since February 2015. The
criteria states, The article is suitably referenced, with inline citations. It has reliable sources, and any important or controversial material which is likely to be challenged is cited.
I hid the tagged content pending a review. --
Otr500 (
talk)
14:49, 13 June 2021 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Cable car (railway) article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This
level-5 vital article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Article read:
I disagree with that. There are at least two, different, but quite specific, definitions of "cable car". One is a cabin suspended along a cable in the sky, pulled by that cable. The other is a light rail system using a cable in the road to pull the light rail cars along. Rather than saying that, the article should differentiate the two different senses of this word. -- SJK
Two questions:
I live in Sydney and I've been to Melbourne and I've never seen cable cars in either... except if you count roller coasters. Where are they? And where did the original author get this amazingly accurate list? -- Tim
A Cable Car on rails is not a vertical mover. Eg. one of the most succesful networks was Chicago. A cable car can go nearly anywhere, as long as there's a cable to pull. That's quite different from the possibilities of the funicular, and it's the latter that should be categorized vertical transport system. Aliter 14:57, 17 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Should San Francisco be in the 'previous' list? I believe some of its lines have indeed ceased, but the list title stresses cities, rather than lines.
We probably should add a bit more of the mechanics, as for Axel Boldt's question above. Aliter 19:06, 11 Dec 2004 (UTC)
I added both Kansas City and Denver to the list of cities previously having cable cars. Both cities switched to trolleys that were later also abandoned in favor of buses. Gwimpey 22:56, Dec 14, 2004 (UTC)
San Francisco isn't the only city using cable cars! Wellington, New Zealand runs a line between the central city and the university area. I've amended the article to accommodate this. Grutness| hello?
OK - if that's the case it shouldn't be here... but perhaps there needs to be some explanation of the exact differences between the two. ISTR that Wellingon's is driven by a "wheelhouse" and the cars grip onto the moving cable, which is pretty much what it gives as a definition here. Meanwhile the cable cars listed for Dunedin were IIRC run by individual motors like trams, but on a cable (contrary to the definitions here). I'm now thoroughly confused as to which is which. Grutness| hello? 05:30, 30 Dec 2004 (UTC)
I changed the title of this to conform to the style that articles should be titled to what they describe. There is no public or industry nomenclature of a "cable car on rails" (i.e., no one call it that), and the name is a little awkward. It sounds like a rock group, like Death Cab for Cutie. I will fix the redirects. -- Cecropia | explains it all ® 03:43, 30 Dec 2004 (UTC)
These are a great improvement on what went before. I have made a few further changes, explanation here:
-- Chris j wood 13:03, 30 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Though I don't mind the details of every line being treated in separate articles, which was actually why I made every line a link, the details I did mention in this article gave a development of the cable car. If most people prefer a list of "In <year> the <technique> was introduced by the <line> to make <feature> possible.", that's OK with me. But don't move out the development details entirely, as that returns us to the "Some bloke in San Francisco one day thought up the Cable Car as it runs today", which I wanted to refute. Aliter 00:12, 2 Jan 2005 (UTC)
I have no problem with blunt. It has that it's your opinion, and it also happens to be mine. I knew that in the process I was reversing several changes that improved the look of the article, but in my opinion hid information. I probably overdid it a bit, but for a mostly historical topic the article drifts remarkably fast, so I saw no better solution than to make as much explicite as I could recall. (I think Denver used to have a spare cable running through the vault, and there was a system that had powered cars, but I can't recall the details.) I just hoped that if I pulled it all together into a historical development, we would afterwards be able to improve the readability again without losing that part. If you say your edits will do that, then they're fine with me. (Horizontal movers with cable car technology were added just after I changed the article. They were a surprise for me too.) Aliter 16:52, 2 Jan 2005 (UTC)
I am the "guilty" party who inserted the small parts about the automated cable cars-people movers in this and other related articles, such as the one on the town of Laon. Right after doing so I wondered if I sould not have mentioned that there is another big manufacturer, Doppelmayr, in addition to Poma-Otis, even if Doppelmayr has only three installations (and Doppelmayr does much more business with its funiculars and ski lifts than with its true cable cars)because this way it would have seemed less likely that this might be an ad for Poma-Otis. But before I could change anything these artciles went thoough massive restructurings! I think I will wait till the dust settles before I do any form of change. -- AlainV 00:11, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Regarding the nonn-technical details - Most of them were still there in the modified article, just not collected in a single spot. Some may have been replaced by a fact refuting their claim, though.
Regarding the line details - I dropped some details about the lines from the article and left out many more, but I hope those, being more relevant to the individual lines than to the topic of Cable Cars, will create many pages on specific Cable Car lines.
Regarding the sources - I don't recall; they were quite some time ago. But it's quite easy to compare the historical line with the current lines. The current grips are a later design. The California cars were a later design, let-go curves and pull-curves were later additions. The slot-brake was a later invention. What's left is mostly the concepts of detachable cars and the grip. The former existed in New York, though I admit that I have never seen Hallidie's 1867 patent, and have only assumed it was about furnicular-style. This would leave the grip. That is indeed an immense improvement over the earlier collar and claws system, and it is enough to make Hallidie a leader in his field, just not a hero.
Mind you, what I see in Hallidie's biographies is a liar and meddler, who thought himself superior to others, and whose success stemmed from his fathers invention of steel cable. That would be just the person to take over the franchise and the design, lie about his first run after he himself ran out of time, and finally patent the technology he had taken over. But I did not write that in the article; all I wrote there is that it's unknown how much of the earlier design was used. I expect the museum is unintentionally prejudiced, being in the city itself, but if they have the notes of Brooke, of course, we should adapt the article accordingly. As you mentioned the cable guy I looked him up as well; he has a newspaper article on Brooks, which refers to Brooke as the true inventor. Maybe that would give more information.
There was a suggestion that I could have discussed the changes first. That is true; it is unfortunate that I choose to do as those that went before me.
Aliter 16:52, 2 Jan 2005 (UTC)
My compliments for Chris' syncretic skills, which created a superior article. Through the contributions of all of us, we've taken the article well beyond this version of just 15 days ago. Aliter 15:58, 14 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Since SF-style cable cars still exist today, what happens when they come to minor grief is more than an academic question. I'm referring to cases like hitting a dead spot (i.e., stopped at a location where it is impossible to pick up the cable) or derailment.
In the latter case, I actually saw a derailment, at the turntable at the end of the Powell-Hyde Line. This took place in 1982, before it was all rebuilt. I couldn't get clear as to the cause, I thinkit was a slight misaligment of the turntable with the track stub, aggrevated by the poor condition of everything. I do recall a nearby German tourist commenting something about the "stupid incompetent Americans" as though he were watching a badly designed carnival ride. (His comment was in German, but my wife translated for me). In that case, all that was needed was to lever the car back onto the tracks.
Now I assume that we simply get out and push if you're on a dead spot, but remembering the steepness of the hills, that seems like that could cause too much excitement (as it were) if the pushing was done at the intersection of California and Powell if the cable weren't picked up smoothly. Anyone know what current protocol is? I think it would be worth mentioning in the article. -- Cecropia | explains it all ® 20:00, 6 Jan 2005 (UTC)
I have added this cable tramway, despite the fact that it isn't in a city, as I think it is significant.-- John 11:18, 12 October 2005 (UTC)
I can find no reference to this in a web search. Susvolans ⇔ 18:07, 22 November 2005 (UTC)
Hey, no need to look elsewhere: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memphis_Area_Transit_Authority 16:47, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
There's no information anywhere (not even Wikipedia itself!) that Memphis has anything other than electric streetcars or buses - neither of which are cable cars. I've removed that claim. Kesmet 21:15, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
This article and
Tram have been tagged for merger. Obviously since a cable car is a kind of tram that would mean merging this article to Tram.(It is noted below that not all cable cars are trams. Note also that not all trams are cable cars. So they'd both have to be merged under a different title. All the more reason not to merge.) The problem (other) is that this article is about 15 kilobytes & Tram is about 32 kilobytes. If they were merged, either some heavy trimming would have to be done or we'd produce a huge article. I therefore oppose any merger.
J
i
m
p
17:52, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
I'm proposing a small re-organization of articles including this one at: Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Trains#Cable_railways:_a_proposal. I'd be grateful for your thoughts. Please post comment to Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Trains#Cable_railways:_a_proposal to keep the discussion in one place. Many thanks, —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gwernol ( talk • contribs) 18:50, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
I believe the line, "The only moving National Historic Landmark in the United States..." to be incorrect. The Wiki entry for San Francisco cable car system states, "The San Francisco cable cars are one of two moving National Historic Landmarks, along with Mystic Seaport Museum's steamship Sabino." Reference: Report on San Francisco's Cable Cars, San Francisco Beautiful May 2007 Dick Kimball ( talk) 20:16, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
Sometime between late 2006 (when I last edited this article) and now, the Laon Poma 2000 link has migrated from 'Cities currently operating cable cars' to 'Cities previously operating cable cars'. When and why did this line close?. -- Starbois ( talk) 13:31, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
Given the previous discussion about Wellington having a funicular, surely it should be removed from Cities Previously Operating Cable Cars, as the system has not fundamentally changed. While it is a hybrid it either should be in here as a current system, or removed as it is considered a funicular. It cannot be a former system if it is still running with the same characteristics as it always has done. Libertyscott ( talk) 14:47, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
How do the cable-cars go around corners/curves in the street? If there cable is adjusted with a guidance-wheel the clutch-thingy would damage the wheel or make the cable derail, right? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.229.200.50 ( talk) 10:02, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
User:Goldensmith recently added the following:
However a brief web search suggests that neither city ever operated cable cars. See for example, http://2bangkok.com/2bangkok-Tram-overview.shtml and http://2bangkok.com/2bangkok-tram-lopburi.html.
What is more, the illustration included in the article and above is clearly of an electric car.
I have reverted the addition. If I've missed something, please re-add with cites showing these were cable cars. -- chris_j_wood ( talk) 12:38, 3 November 2011 (UTC)
Why is http://www.cable-car-guy.com blacklisted as a link? Sammy D III ( talk) 16:10, 27 August 2013 (UTC)
It is all very well to mention the cities in which the cable car railways were located, but what about the actual names of the systems in the list of cable car systems? Peter Horn User talk 14:52, 7 September 2013 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Cable car (railway). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 18:57, 21 December 2017 (UTC)
@
ArnoldReinhold: Hello Arnld,
Cable car (railway)# Modern cable car systems Most links here go to the cities without giving the name and describing the system in that city. Not helpful.
Rgds,
Peter Horn
User talk
20:00, 19 April 2018 (UTC)
I'm experiencing the same overshoot problem with Safari on a MacBook laptop. I tried a few edits to the target article to fix it, but they did not help. The modern examples do seem to be Cable Liner systems. I know of one more that has since closed that isn't, I may add it later.-- agr ( talk) 14:47, 23 April 2018 (UTC)
This is listed as a B-class article that has had an inline "citation needed" tag since February 2015. The
criteria states, The article is suitably referenced, with inline citations. It has reliable sources, and any important or controversial material which is likely to be challenged is cited.
I hid the tagged content pending a review. --
Otr500 (
talk)
14:49, 13 June 2021 (UTC)