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Two articles separated by External Links? Which one is better? I suggest a merging job. ZephyrAnycon 7 July 2005 22:53 (UTC)
Ten stories down? Cite, please? -- Karada 10:47, 13 July 2005 (UTC)
[1] says " COBR is a suite of offices within the Cabinet Office building and as such would not give any protection against an attack.", and then goes on to describe PINDAR, which is an underground citadel. Without the presence of a cite, I think it's safe to assume that COBR is not deep underground. -- The Anome 10:46, August 11, 2005 (UTC)
Given that the cited external links refer to COBRA, I propose that we move this back from Cabinet Office Briefing Rooms to Cabinet Office Briefing Room A.
James F. (talk) 22:16, 22 July 2005 (UTC)
The Prime Minister's Official Spokesman refers to Cobra as does direct.gov.uk while UK Resilience (the Civil Contingencies Secretariat) refers to both COBR and Cobra. I think the text should make it clear that both are acceptable.
It has just been announced, in line with the very recent events in Iran concerning the seizure of UK Navy troops COBRA will meet at 4pm, should this be added to the article? (Announced at 1447 on BBC News 24)
This title will always cause a problem. It a semantic point, but an important one that "COBR" cannot "meet" it is a physical suite of buildings. It is "COBRA", the colloquial name of the Civil Contingencies Committee which meets in COBR room A. I think we should seek some form of standardisation of the terminology here and where we are talking about the meetings we should always use COBRA not COBR. Chris 18:02, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
References
They announced on BBC News 24 that Gordon Brown will, but hasn't yet 18:00 BST 30/6/07 held a COBRA meeting. You will probably want that it soon...? St91 17:00, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
Do we really need to list every single (known) occurrence in the last couple of years? I'm sure there's a WP guideline somewhere advising against creating great long chronological lists like that. 81.158.0.187 11:52, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
There is no such appointment as 'Director of the SAS'. There are Commanding Officers of the various SAS Regiments, and a Director Special Forces (DSF) that also has responsbility for other areas of UKSF responsibility. Darth Doctrinus 18:43, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
If you are in the UK and can access the BBC iPlayer then watch "The Secret World of Whitehall" Part One: The Real Sir Humphrey to see the big steel door of COBRA and inside the room itself. -- AlisonW ( talk) 00:19, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
COBR article goes into far greater details of the meetings, Civil Contingencies Committee would be better suited as a section in COBR. RA0808 talk contribs 04:26, 26 May 2017 (UTC)
From what I can find out it is similar to those at NORAD, CDC and other such facilities, mostly so suitably cleared and vetted officials can have access to the same information at predefined locations. These displays show a range of data such as: epidemic status, emergency responder locations and status, worldwide radiation levels, severe weather data and other vital information. They are on at all times but with backlights normally set at low power.
Currently the article says of COBR:It is popularly, but mistakenly referred to as COBRA,
[1] even when the acronym is spelt out by officials.
[2]
I dispute the use of the word "mistaken" here, as both "COBRA" and even "Cobra" have entered into common use in British English. All that the source cited to support this sentence says is: COBRA is an acronym of “Cabinet Office Briefing Room A” where the strategy group supposedly meets. COBRA is not an officially recognised term and will therefore not be found in official documents and evidence. The official
name for the strategy group is the Civil Contingencies Committee which is supported by a small secretariat and may
meet in Cabinet Office Briefing Rooms (COBR).
And that doesn't use the word "mistaken", or any synonym for it. However, the source also goes on to say However, given the popular usage of “COBRA”, unless otherwise stated, COBRA will be used as a synonym for all of the Government’s immediate strategic response structure, particularly the Civil Contingencies Committee.
As if that wasn't enough to show it's use isn't "mistaken", the word is defined as a noun in the Oxford University Press powered online dictionary here (COBRA2), with an example of its use in this context. Further more, the Guardian's style guide describes how to use the word as "Cobra" here. And any search of recent news articles covering Storm Dennis will show it is widely used by not only The Guardian, but also by BBC News, Sky News, the Independent, and many others.
I'm not sure what the second reference is supposed to be supporting as the most pertinent sentence in it says: Cobra meetings, or Cobr meetings as they are often also called, are named after Cabinet Office Briefing Room A on Whitehall.
I think we need a drastic reword to make it clear, and to not mislead readers into thinking its use is in any way mistaken. -- DeFacto ( talk). 20:49, 27 February 2020 (UTC)
"COBRA will be used as a synonym for all of the Government’s immediate strategic response structure, particularly the Civil Contingencies Committee."It's not just the use of the word which (they acknowlege) is wrong, it's what it implies - everything that follows from it in that sentence. This article is about a facility called 'COBR'. The facility has more than one meeting room and hosts more than one committee, usually for non-crisis discussions. These sources imply there is a single room (the fictional 'Briefing Room A'), used by a single Ministerial committee (apparently the 'Civil Contingencies Committee') and used only in times of crisis (i.e. the only times they hear about it). That is misleading. Wiki-Ed ( talk) 10:18, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
COBR or COBRA is shorthand for the Civil Contingencies Committee that is convened to handle matters of national emergency or major disruption. It could hardly be any clearer really. -- DeFacto ( talk). 22:44, 27 February 2020 (UTC)
The origins of it being referred to as Cabinet Office Briefing Room A (COBRA) are not clear. It may have been confused with a Treasury briefing room A or because it made the acronym more obvious and memorable.This is not about policing or control of English usage, it is about explaining how a facility is structured and operates. If we imply it is a single room, or a single committee (that's wrong by the way and implies infrequent usage) then we mislead the reader. Wiki-Ed ( talk) 22:53, 27 February 2020 (UTC)
@ Wiki-Ed: and as the cited source in the body explains, they use the popular term as a synonym for the official term - and never suggest it is mistaken, so without any convincing reference supporting the use of that characterisation, it clearly isn't correct to say it's mistaken in the body text either. So I've updated the body text too, so the lead now once again accurately summarises the body. -- DeFacto ( talk). 09:43, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
Given the evidence above, I propose rewording the first paragraph something like this:
The Cabinet Office Briefing Rooms, also known as COBRA, Cobra and COBR, are a group of meeting rooms in the Cabinet Office at 70 Whitehall in London, often used for different committees which co-ordinate the actions of bodies within the Government of the United Kingdom in response to instances of national or regional crisis, or during events abroad with major implications for the UK. [3] [4] In official reports and evidence, the government uses the form "COBR". [3] Other meeting rooms in the Cabinet Office are not part of the COBR facility, including the old Treasury Board Room, which is labelled "Conference Room A", located in Kent's Treasury, a different part of the Cabinet Office building. [5]
Any comments, suggestions or alternatives? -- DeFacto ( talk). 21:05, 27 February 2020 (UTC)
Use of the term 'COBRA' The term 'COBRA' is often used in the press (insert sources) as shorthand for the UK government's civil emergency response process (insert Parliamentary source). Although the origin is unclear, it may have come about because it makes the acronym more obvious and memorable (insert Institute for Government Source) or, alternatively it may have been confused with other meeting rooms in the Cabinet Office which are not part of the COBR facility, including the old Treasury Board Room, which is labelled "Conference Room A", and located in Kent's Treasury, a different part of the Cabinet Office building. (insert Independent source) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wiki-Ed ( talk • contribs) 10:36, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
The [whatever the official term is] committees are commonly known as "COBRA" or "Cobra Committees".(can ref to the OUP dictionary) Although the origin of the term is unclear, the Institute for Government suggest it may have come about because it makes the original "COBR" acronym more obvious and memorable or, alternatively, the Independent suggests, it may have been confused with other meeting rooms in the Cabinet Office which are not part of the COBR facility, including the old Treasury Board Room, which is labelled "Conference Room A", and located in Kent's Treasury, a different part of the Cabinet Office building.-- DeFacto ( talk). 21:30, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
References
On April 19th 2020, a Twitter reference to a Sky News clip of Iain Duncan Smith describing what COBRA means. This is a violation of WP:TWITTER since the tweet is not being used as a reference for the parties involved (Sky News or Iain Duncan Smith), but instead is being used as a reference for another topic (the meaning of a "COBRA" meeting). Given the main subject of the clip is currently a highly charged political topic ("It is normal for a Prime Minister not to be at COBRA meetings.") this reference should be removed. 2A02:C7F:6C11:EB00:79B4:E2B6:B944:ECA5 ( talk) 08:30, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Two articles separated by External Links? Which one is better? I suggest a merging job. ZephyrAnycon 7 July 2005 22:53 (UTC)
Ten stories down? Cite, please? -- Karada 10:47, 13 July 2005 (UTC)
[1] says " COBR is a suite of offices within the Cabinet Office building and as such would not give any protection against an attack.", and then goes on to describe PINDAR, which is an underground citadel. Without the presence of a cite, I think it's safe to assume that COBR is not deep underground. -- The Anome 10:46, August 11, 2005 (UTC)
Given that the cited external links refer to COBRA, I propose that we move this back from Cabinet Office Briefing Rooms to Cabinet Office Briefing Room A.
James F. (talk) 22:16, 22 July 2005 (UTC)
The Prime Minister's Official Spokesman refers to Cobra as does direct.gov.uk while UK Resilience (the Civil Contingencies Secretariat) refers to both COBR and Cobra. I think the text should make it clear that both are acceptable.
It has just been announced, in line with the very recent events in Iran concerning the seizure of UK Navy troops COBRA will meet at 4pm, should this be added to the article? (Announced at 1447 on BBC News 24)
This title will always cause a problem. It a semantic point, but an important one that "COBR" cannot "meet" it is a physical suite of buildings. It is "COBRA", the colloquial name of the Civil Contingencies Committee which meets in COBR room A. I think we should seek some form of standardisation of the terminology here and where we are talking about the meetings we should always use COBRA not COBR. Chris 18:02, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
References
They announced on BBC News 24 that Gordon Brown will, but hasn't yet 18:00 BST 30/6/07 held a COBRA meeting. You will probably want that it soon...? St91 17:00, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
Do we really need to list every single (known) occurrence in the last couple of years? I'm sure there's a WP guideline somewhere advising against creating great long chronological lists like that. 81.158.0.187 11:52, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
There is no such appointment as 'Director of the SAS'. There are Commanding Officers of the various SAS Regiments, and a Director Special Forces (DSF) that also has responsbility for other areas of UKSF responsibility. Darth Doctrinus 18:43, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
If you are in the UK and can access the BBC iPlayer then watch "The Secret World of Whitehall" Part One: The Real Sir Humphrey to see the big steel door of COBRA and inside the room itself. -- AlisonW ( talk) 00:19, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
COBR article goes into far greater details of the meetings, Civil Contingencies Committee would be better suited as a section in COBR. RA0808 talk contribs 04:26, 26 May 2017 (UTC)
From what I can find out it is similar to those at NORAD, CDC and other such facilities, mostly so suitably cleared and vetted officials can have access to the same information at predefined locations. These displays show a range of data such as: epidemic status, emergency responder locations and status, worldwide radiation levels, severe weather data and other vital information. They are on at all times but with backlights normally set at low power.
Currently the article says of COBR:It is popularly, but mistakenly referred to as COBRA,
[1] even when the acronym is spelt out by officials.
[2]
I dispute the use of the word "mistaken" here, as both "COBRA" and even "Cobra" have entered into common use in British English. All that the source cited to support this sentence says is: COBRA is an acronym of “Cabinet Office Briefing Room A” where the strategy group supposedly meets. COBRA is not an officially recognised term and will therefore not be found in official documents and evidence. The official
name for the strategy group is the Civil Contingencies Committee which is supported by a small secretariat and may
meet in Cabinet Office Briefing Rooms (COBR).
And that doesn't use the word "mistaken", or any synonym for it. However, the source also goes on to say However, given the popular usage of “COBRA”, unless otherwise stated, COBRA will be used as a synonym for all of the Government’s immediate strategic response structure, particularly the Civil Contingencies Committee.
As if that wasn't enough to show it's use isn't "mistaken", the word is defined as a noun in the Oxford University Press powered online dictionary here (COBRA2), with an example of its use in this context. Further more, the Guardian's style guide describes how to use the word as "Cobra" here. And any search of recent news articles covering Storm Dennis will show it is widely used by not only The Guardian, but also by BBC News, Sky News, the Independent, and many others.
I'm not sure what the second reference is supposed to be supporting as the most pertinent sentence in it says: Cobra meetings, or Cobr meetings as they are often also called, are named after Cabinet Office Briefing Room A on Whitehall.
I think we need a drastic reword to make it clear, and to not mislead readers into thinking its use is in any way mistaken. -- DeFacto ( talk). 20:49, 27 February 2020 (UTC)
"COBRA will be used as a synonym for all of the Government’s immediate strategic response structure, particularly the Civil Contingencies Committee."It's not just the use of the word which (they acknowlege) is wrong, it's what it implies - everything that follows from it in that sentence. This article is about a facility called 'COBR'. The facility has more than one meeting room and hosts more than one committee, usually for non-crisis discussions. These sources imply there is a single room (the fictional 'Briefing Room A'), used by a single Ministerial committee (apparently the 'Civil Contingencies Committee') and used only in times of crisis (i.e. the only times they hear about it). That is misleading. Wiki-Ed ( talk) 10:18, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
COBR or COBRA is shorthand for the Civil Contingencies Committee that is convened to handle matters of national emergency or major disruption. It could hardly be any clearer really. -- DeFacto ( talk). 22:44, 27 February 2020 (UTC)
The origins of it being referred to as Cabinet Office Briefing Room A (COBRA) are not clear. It may have been confused with a Treasury briefing room A or because it made the acronym more obvious and memorable.This is not about policing or control of English usage, it is about explaining how a facility is structured and operates. If we imply it is a single room, or a single committee (that's wrong by the way and implies infrequent usage) then we mislead the reader. Wiki-Ed ( talk) 22:53, 27 February 2020 (UTC)
@ Wiki-Ed: and as the cited source in the body explains, they use the popular term as a synonym for the official term - and never suggest it is mistaken, so without any convincing reference supporting the use of that characterisation, it clearly isn't correct to say it's mistaken in the body text either. So I've updated the body text too, so the lead now once again accurately summarises the body. -- DeFacto ( talk). 09:43, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
Given the evidence above, I propose rewording the first paragraph something like this:
The Cabinet Office Briefing Rooms, also known as COBRA, Cobra and COBR, are a group of meeting rooms in the Cabinet Office at 70 Whitehall in London, often used for different committees which co-ordinate the actions of bodies within the Government of the United Kingdom in response to instances of national or regional crisis, or during events abroad with major implications for the UK. [3] [4] In official reports and evidence, the government uses the form "COBR". [3] Other meeting rooms in the Cabinet Office are not part of the COBR facility, including the old Treasury Board Room, which is labelled "Conference Room A", located in Kent's Treasury, a different part of the Cabinet Office building. [5]
Any comments, suggestions or alternatives? -- DeFacto ( talk). 21:05, 27 February 2020 (UTC)
Use of the term 'COBRA' The term 'COBRA' is often used in the press (insert sources) as shorthand for the UK government's civil emergency response process (insert Parliamentary source). Although the origin is unclear, it may have come about because it makes the acronym more obvious and memorable (insert Institute for Government Source) or, alternatively it may have been confused with other meeting rooms in the Cabinet Office which are not part of the COBR facility, including the old Treasury Board Room, which is labelled "Conference Room A", and located in Kent's Treasury, a different part of the Cabinet Office building. (insert Independent source) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wiki-Ed ( talk • contribs) 10:36, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
The [whatever the official term is] committees are commonly known as "COBRA" or "Cobra Committees".(can ref to the OUP dictionary) Although the origin of the term is unclear, the Institute for Government suggest it may have come about because it makes the original "COBR" acronym more obvious and memorable or, alternatively, the Independent suggests, it may have been confused with other meeting rooms in the Cabinet Office which are not part of the COBR facility, including the old Treasury Board Room, which is labelled "Conference Room A", and located in Kent's Treasury, a different part of the Cabinet Office building.-- DeFacto ( talk). 21:30, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
References
On April 19th 2020, a Twitter reference to a Sky News clip of Iain Duncan Smith describing what COBRA means. This is a violation of WP:TWITTER since the tweet is not being used as a reference for the parties involved (Sky News or Iain Duncan Smith), but instead is being used as a reference for another topic (the meaning of a "COBRA" meeting). Given the main subject of the clip is currently a highly charged political topic ("It is normal for a Prime Minister not to be at COBRA meetings.") this reference should be removed. 2A02:C7F:6C11:EB00:79B4:E2B6:B944:ECA5 ( talk) 08:30, 20 April 2020 (UTC)