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Material from 2020 coronavirus outbreak in Europe was split to 2020 coronavirus outbreak in Greece on 1 March 2020. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted so long as the latter page exists. Please leave this template in place to link the article histories and preserve this attribution. The former page's talk page can be accessed at Talk:2020 coronavirus outbreak in Europe. |
This article contains a translation of Πανδημία του κορονοϊού στην Ελλάδα το 2020 from el.wikipedia. |
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I was just reading an article by FT about the progress made in Greece against the coronavirus and the danger posed to it by some ultra-Orthodox groups:
This week militant Orthodox church members distributed leaflets around provincial cities calling for churches to open for midnight mass on Easter Saturday, the most popular service in the Orthodox calendar.
“Believers like us feel it was wrong to deprive of us of the Easter celebration. We sympathise with the priests and members of our flock who are protesting,” said Aspasia, a shop owner in Lamia, a small city in central Greece.
And protestors gathered on Friday evening outside a closed Orthodox church in an Athens suburb, calling for the parish priest to hold a Good Friday service. Police took 18 people into custody after militant members of the congregation hammered on the church doors and shouted anti-lockdown slogans.
At several other churches around the city, priests allowed worshippers to light candles and kiss icons in defiance of lockdown rules.
Are there any reports in Greek with more details about the actions of the government against these groups? The Guardian says that drones will also be utilized against them.-- Maleschreiber ( talk) 23:06, 17 April 2020 (UTC)
@
Skylax30: Since I do not do edit wars, I have to resort to using the talk page. Snide remarks in the edit summary aside, I have read the National Herald article thoroughly. (Have you?) Yes, the word police is used in the article. It says that police have helped moving migrants toward the Turkish coast. No-one is disputing that. Furthermore, the article states that 1) Greek officials fear that Turkey ... will send
infected migrants to Greece, 2) Other sources ... believe that Turkey has a plan to push
infected migrants into Greece and 3) Greek authorities ... are anxious Turkey will flood Greek islands
with infected refugees and migrants. The article does not even claim that such plans exist, only that Greek officials/sources/authorities fear/believe/are anxious that such plans may exist. And there is nothing in the article to support the sentence about the police being actively involved in
such plans. --
T*U (
talk)
09:31, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
If you are saying that "help" is not an "active involvement", then we can resort to verbalism and transfer here exacctly the wording of the sources. You can do it. But it seems that you only want to downgrade the whole paragraph. Btw, I notices the presence of certain user banned in the Greek WP.-- Skylax30 ( talk) 16:10, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
I see that Calthinus has changed their mind about the addition, but the edit warring still persists, without any attempt to discuss the dispute, here, on the article talk page. Note that if edit warring continues after the protection expires without an attempt to discuss the dispute here, WP:GS/COVID19 may be used to apply a range of sanctions. El_C 21:29, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
I have seen POV-pushing in my long tenure here. But POV-pushing at the lead and in a newly-created section for an obsolete and old factoid with no context to explain it sets a new low in the history of editing Wikipedia. We are long past 30 April when this POV-pushed factoid was reported and it is now obsolete as it is too old. Also, Greece's testing rate, even on 30 April, was 14 times higher than Mexico's and over 3 times higher than Japan's. It was also in the same order of magnitude as other European states. So the POV-pushing phrasing that Greece was the third lowest testing country in OECD simply adds OR insult to the POV injury. Edit-warring to push this OR POV in this article, just adds one more layer of POV-pushing insult to the editing of this article. Dr. K. 21:32, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
...like a toddler[1]) towards Greek users, does not seem to be interested in COVID-19 articles in other countries (besides Turkey), and the edit was made on May 29th, which may or may not be a coincidence (my guess: NOT a coincidence).
Because the sentence before my sentence speaks about Greece being "most proactive in Europe", "strictest", "slow spread" and "low deaths".. It is rare that people so transparently declare their intention to push POV, but people can surprise you sometimes. We're done here. Khirurg ( talk) 04:09, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
irrational stubborn activismand
commical (sic)arguments. -- Dr. K. 22:47, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
Randam my apologies, I will admit I did not (and will not) read all this text. However, what I support is this -- that source about April 30, as well as others about testing, should be added to a subsection in the Statistics section (not the lede). This will further enrich the page. Everyone wins.... if the goal is not fighting, that is. -- Calthinus ( talk) 23:25, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
Seems some users want to talk about the edit of 14 june. I prefer you guys adjusting the text directly, than rather explaining how it should not be. This way we all save more time and work. Randam ( talk) 06:34, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
the small proportion of deaths still demonstrates the impact of extreme social distancing.. Bloomberg state
but there are no signs that the pressure on its health-care system is comparable to that experienced by the latter two countries.. The Independent also states
But its total deaths have been low — 138 in a population of about 10.7 million — a surprise to experts, especially given the elderly population. And a big relief.and
Only 69,833 people have been tested for the virus in Greece, but experts agree that the country’s decision to quickly enforce social distancing measures and fortify its ailing health care system helped curb the outbreak.. This is crucial information that places the testing rate in proper context. Yet, you deliberately left that out to present a distorted picture of the situation. Khirurg ( talk) 06:50, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
I agree on mentioning testing in Greece in the article, but not the way Randam is trying to add it. Now let me provide some sources that will hopefully help us all agree on a sentence or paragraph that actually reflects the reality of the situation.
First of all, the source that OECD uses to create the "Diagnostic testing for COVID‑19 in OECD countries" figure ( here and here) is this website and its dataset is updated at least once a week (so I see no need to stick to the April 30 stats). Now according to that source (last updated on 13 June), the number of tests conducted in Greece for each new confirmed case of COVID-19 is actually among the highest in Europe currently -and has been for a long time. This is crucial information. Moreover, if you compare between the European countries, Greece is around the average when it comes to the number of daily tests performed per thousand people, as of this week.
I would also like to bring to everyone's attention the fact that the Ministry of Health's spokesperson, Sotiris Tsiodras, has said on multiple occasions that the true number of infected people in Greece is actually quite low, "much less than 1 percent of the population". According to Tsiodras, the basic reproduction number (R0) for the disease in Greece is less than 0,5 -estimated at 0,33 (sources: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5). Esslet ( talk) 12:10, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
the initial discussion isn't about "number of tests per each new confirmed case" as you mention, it's about "number of tests per capita".Yeah I saw that (discussion was actually about the "daily number of tests per thousand people", at least that's what the sources you added here and here are referring to). I just tried to point out that there are more data available that we can and should use if we are to cover this angle of the topic fully.
feel free to add anythingActually, I'm not that interested at the moment to spend time to analyze and compile all the information into a paragraph. For now, I collected and provided all the information I could find and I believe it is enough to cover the topic fully and objectively. Maybe I'll work on it at a later time if no one does in the meantime. Esslet ( talk) 17:10, 15 June 2020 (UTC)
I see nothing wrong with comparing Greece's testing level to other countries with similar economic backgrounds.As infection conditions vary from country to country, country testing comparisons may be a bad and misleading idea. I also checked other country covid articles and I have not seen such comparisons being made. I would suggest treading carefully on that idea. Dr. K. 21:50, 17 June 2020 (UTC)
Randam has been indefinitely blocked... tread carefully.... And yes that phrase (tread carefully) is frequently used in threats. You will now probably point out that there are gazillions of other interpretations. Don't. I wrote a question mark. If you don't want to be interpreted as making threats, don't write things that can be interpreted as threats. -- Calthinus ( talk) 08:29, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
Don't presume to dictate to me what to point out. The only reason I told you about the topic indef, was a very practical one. So that you don't ping them. But you chose not to AGF. Too bad.
Dr.
K.
11:41, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
Randam has been indefinitely blocked... tread carefully...
. And yes that phrase (tread carefully) is frequently used in threats. You will now probably point out that there are gazillions of other interpretations. Don't.
Why is the "COVID-19 cases in Greece" bar graph/chart protected? I haven't been here in some time and saw it was stuck at June 23rd. Went in to update it and I'm not allowed. If you're going to "protect" it, at least bother to update it. Otherwise open it up. Everything else on the page appears editable. Kalambaki2 ( talk) 01:45, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
My knowledge of Greek and Gk sources is not good enough for me to wholly fix matters, but much of the 'controversy' section is very poorly and un-neutrally phrased, sometimes uses primary or (what appear to me to be) dubious sources.
With section titles like Persecution and silencing of free expression on the internet and social networks - Persecution of doctors who disagree with extreme measures - Control of the Mass Media by the Government, and a fair bit of poor/loaded English.
I've fixed the worst examples, sometimes having to guess intended meaning, but somone with better Greek should probably look at these sections. Pincrete ( talk) 15:16, 7 November 2020 (UTC)
I also agree. The 'Controversies' section is badly one-sided and uses a lot of unreliable sources (makeleio is a prime example). It's hard to explain every issue but I suggest keeping an eye on this section (Note: I apologize if my comment somehow violates Wikipedia's guidelines. I haven't used Wikipedia in a long time so if I made any mistakes please notify me. I know that I should edit the section, not just report that it's problematic, but it has a lot of issues so I thought of informing fellow users at first.) 79.107.31.14 ( talk) 08:53, 9 November 2020 (UTC)
these paragraphs were probably written by "rebels" (or negationists) against the measures. However it is true that exists controversy in the parliament and by the opposition parties abt the funding of media with state money by the government Greco22 ( talk) 16:54, 10 November 2020 (UTC)
Full marks for the editors who are doing the daily 'updates' of Statistics. BUT does anyone know how to REPEAT the column headings at the base of the stats and/or to section them by month with the facility to hide each month? Reading the most recent figures is difficult as one cannot see (and must remember) what each column represents. Pincrete ( talk) 08:07, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
Guys why is there no category for vaccines — Preceding unsigned comment added by Noodle hair boy 2 ( talk • contribs) 00:40, 26 February 2021 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
COVID-19 pandemic in Greece article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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|
Find medical sources: Source guidelines · PubMed · Cochrane · DOAJ · Gale · OpenMD · ScienceDirect · Springer · Trip · Wiley · TWL |
Archives: Index, 1, 2Auto-archiving period: 90 days |
The
contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to
COVID-19, broadly construed, which has been
designated as a contentious topic. Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page. |
Daily pageviews of this article
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graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at
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Material from 2020 coronavirus outbreak in Europe was split to 2020 coronavirus outbreak in Greece on 1 March 2020. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted so long as the latter page exists. Please leave this template in place to link the article histories and preserve this attribution. The former page's talk page can be accessed at Talk:2020 coronavirus outbreak in Europe. |
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This article contains a translation of Πανδημία του κορονοϊού στην Ελλάδα το 2020 from el.wikipedia. |
This page has archives. Sections older than 90 days may be automatically archived by ClueBot III when more than 8 sections are present. |
I was just reading an article by FT about the progress made in Greece against the coronavirus and the danger posed to it by some ultra-Orthodox groups:
This week militant Orthodox church members distributed leaflets around provincial cities calling for churches to open for midnight mass on Easter Saturday, the most popular service in the Orthodox calendar.
“Believers like us feel it was wrong to deprive of us of the Easter celebration. We sympathise with the priests and members of our flock who are protesting,” said Aspasia, a shop owner in Lamia, a small city in central Greece.
And protestors gathered on Friday evening outside a closed Orthodox church in an Athens suburb, calling for the parish priest to hold a Good Friday service. Police took 18 people into custody after militant members of the congregation hammered on the church doors and shouted anti-lockdown slogans.
At several other churches around the city, priests allowed worshippers to light candles and kiss icons in defiance of lockdown rules.
Are there any reports in Greek with more details about the actions of the government against these groups? The Guardian says that drones will also be utilized against them.-- Maleschreiber ( talk) 23:06, 17 April 2020 (UTC)
@
Skylax30: Since I do not do edit wars, I have to resort to using the talk page. Snide remarks in the edit summary aside, I have read the National Herald article thoroughly. (Have you?) Yes, the word police is used in the article. It says that police have helped moving migrants toward the Turkish coast. No-one is disputing that. Furthermore, the article states that 1) Greek officials fear that Turkey ... will send
infected migrants to Greece, 2) Other sources ... believe that Turkey has a plan to push
infected migrants into Greece and 3) Greek authorities ... are anxious Turkey will flood Greek islands
with infected refugees and migrants. The article does not even claim that such plans exist, only that Greek officials/sources/authorities fear/believe/are anxious that such plans may exist. And there is nothing in the article to support the sentence about the police being actively involved in
such plans. --
T*U (
talk)
09:31, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
If you are saying that "help" is not an "active involvement", then we can resort to verbalism and transfer here exacctly the wording of the sources. You can do it. But it seems that you only want to downgrade the whole paragraph. Btw, I notices the presence of certain user banned in the Greek WP.-- Skylax30 ( talk) 16:10, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
I see that Calthinus has changed their mind about the addition, but the edit warring still persists, without any attempt to discuss the dispute, here, on the article talk page. Note that if edit warring continues after the protection expires without an attempt to discuss the dispute here, WP:GS/COVID19 may be used to apply a range of sanctions. El_C 21:29, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
I have seen POV-pushing in my long tenure here. But POV-pushing at the lead and in a newly-created section for an obsolete and old factoid with no context to explain it sets a new low in the history of editing Wikipedia. We are long past 30 April when this POV-pushed factoid was reported and it is now obsolete as it is too old. Also, Greece's testing rate, even on 30 April, was 14 times higher than Mexico's and over 3 times higher than Japan's. It was also in the same order of magnitude as other European states. So the POV-pushing phrasing that Greece was the third lowest testing country in OECD simply adds OR insult to the POV injury. Edit-warring to push this OR POV in this article, just adds one more layer of POV-pushing insult to the editing of this article. Dr. K. 21:32, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
...like a toddler[1]) towards Greek users, does not seem to be interested in COVID-19 articles in other countries (besides Turkey), and the edit was made on May 29th, which may or may not be a coincidence (my guess: NOT a coincidence).
Because the sentence before my sentence speaks about Greece being "most proactive in Europe", "strictest", "slow spread" and "low deaths".. It is rare that people so transparently declare their intention to push POV, but people can surprise you sometimes. We're done here. Khirurg ( talk) 04:09, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
irrational stubborn activismand
commical (sic)arguments. -- Dr. K. 22:47, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
Randam my apologies, I will admit I did not (and will not) read all this text. However, what I support is this -- that source about April 30, as well as others about testing, should be added to a subsection in the Statistics section (not the lede). This will further enrich the page. Everyone wins.... if the goal is not fighting, that is. -- Calthinus ( talk) 23:25, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
Seems some users want to talk about the edit of 14 june. I prefer you guys adjusting the text directly, than rather explaining how it should not be. This way we all save more time and work. Randam ( talk) 06:34, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
the small proportion of deaths still demonstrates the impact of extreme social distancing.. Bloomberg state
but there are no signs that the pressure on its health-care system is comparable to that experienced by the latter two countries.. The Independent also states
But its total deaths have been low — 138 in a population of about 10.7 million — a surprise to experts, especially given the elderly population. And a big relief.and
Only 69,833 people have been tested for the virus in Greece, but experts agree that the country’s decision to quickly enforce social distancing measures and fortify its ailing health care system helped curb the outbreak.. This is crucial information that places the testing rate in proper context. Yet, you deliberately left that out to present a distorted picture of the situation. Khirurg ( talk) 06:50, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
I agree on mentioning testing in Greece in the article, but not the way Randam is trying to add it. Now let me provide some sources that will hopefully help us all agree on a sentence or paragraph that actually reflects the reality of the situation.
First of all, the source that OECD uses to create the "Diagnostic testing for COVID‑19 in OECD countries" figure ( here and here) is this website and its dataset is updated at least once a week (so I see no need to stick to the April 30 stats). Now according to that source (last updated on 13 June), the number of tests conducted in Greece for each new confirmed case of COVID-19 is actually among the highest in Europe currently -and has been for a long time. This is crucial information. Moreover, if you compare between the European countries, Greece is around the average when it comes to the number of daily tests performed per thousand people, as of this week.
I would also like to bring to everyone's attention the fact that the Ministry of Health's spokesperson, Sotiris Tsiodras, has said on multiple occasions that the true number of infected people in Greece is actually quite low, "much less than 1 percent of the population". According to Tsiodras, the basic reproduction number (R0) for the disease in Greece is less than 0,5 -estimated at 0,33 (sources: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5). Esslet ( talk) 12:10, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
the initial discussion isn't about "number of tests per each new confirmed case" as you mention, it's about "number of tests per capita".Yeah I saw that (discussion was actually about the "daily number of tests per thousand people", at least that's what the sources you added here and here are referring to). I just tried to point out that there are more data available that we can and should use if we are to cover this angle of the topic fully.
feel free to add anythingActually, I'm not that interested at the moment to spend time to analyze and compile all the information into a paragraph. For now, I collected and provided all the information I could find and I believe it is enough to cover the topic fully and objectively. Maybe I'll work on it at a later time if no one does in the meantime. Esslet ( talk) 17:10, 15 June 2020 (UTC)
I see nothing wrong with comparing Greece's testing level to other countries with similar economic backgrounds.As infection conditions vary from country to country, country testing comparisons may be a bad and misleading idea. I also checked other country covid articles and I have not seen such comparisons being made. I would suggest treading carefully on that idea. Dr. K. 21:50, 17 June 2020 (UTC)
Randam has been indefinitely blocked... tread carefully.... And yes that phrase (tread carefully) is frequently used in threats. You will now probably point out that there are gazillions of other interpretations. Don't. I wrote a question mark. If you don't want to be interpreted as making threats, don't write things that can be interpreted as threats. -- Calthinus ( talk) 08:29, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
Don't presume to dictate to me what to point out. The only reason I told you about the topic indef, was a very practical one. So that you don't ping them. But you chose not to AGF. Too bad.
Dr.
K.
11:41, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
Randam has been indefinitely blocked... tread carefully...
. And yes that phrase (tread carefully) is frequently used in threats. You will now probably point out that there are gazillions of other interpretations. Don't.
Why is the "COVID-19 cases in Greece" bar graph/chart protected? I haven't been here in some time and saw it was stuck at June 23rd. Went in to update it and I'm not allowed. If you're going to "protect" it, at least bother to update it. Otherwise open it up. Everything else on the page appears editable. Kalambaki2 ( talk) 01:45, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
My knowledge of Greek and Gk sources is not good enough for me to wholly fix matters, but much of the 'controversy' section is very poorly and un-neutrally phrased, sometimes uses primary or (what appear to me to be) dubious sources.
With section titles like Persecution and silencing of free expression on the internet and social networks - Persecution of doctors who disagree with extreme measures - Control of the Mass Media by the Government, and a fair bit of poor/loaded English.
I've fixed the worst examples, sometimes having to guess intended meaning, but somone with better Greek should probably look at these sections. Pincrete ( talk) 15:16, 7 November 2020 (UTC)
I also agree. The 'Controversies' section is badly one-sided and uses a lot of unreliable sources (makeleio is a prime example). It's hard to explain every issue but I suggest keeping an eye on this section (Note: I apologize if my comment somehow violates Wikipedia's guidelines. I haven't used Wikipedia in a long time so if I made any mistakes please notify me. I know that I should edit the section, not just report that it's problematic, but it has a lot of issues so I thought of informing fellow users at first.) 79.107.31.14 ( talk) 08:53, 9 November 2020 (UTC)
these paragraphs were probably written by "rebels" (or negationists) against the measures. However it is true that exists controversy in the parliament and by the opposition parties abt the funding of media with state money by the government Greco22 ( talk) 16:54, 10 November 2020 (UTC)
Full marks for the editors who are doing the daily 'updates' of Statistics. BUT does anyone know how to REPEAT the column headings at the base of the stats and/or to section them by month with the facility to hide each month? Reading the most recent figures is difficult as one cannot see (and must remember) what each column represents. Pincrete ( talk) 08:07, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
Guys why is there no category for vaccines — Preceding unsigned comment added by Noodle hair boy 2 ( talk • contribs) 00:40, 26 February 2021 (UTC)