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We mention a shopping center being built right by St Joseph's. Is it this project, now under way (crane in photo)? - Jmabel | Talk 03:09, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
Hi. User:Altermediaro (presumably a representative of the far right-wing "guerrilla" media agency, Altermedia Romania), keeps reverting to a POV version of the "Civic Media petition" section of this article. As it stands, I have a number of issues with this version:
Thanks, Ronline ✉ 07:27, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
Hi!
Although i see you and i have different points of view that most probably cannot be brought togheter, I'll try to explain the issues in a few words.
1. In Romania, NGO (Organizatie Non-Guvernamentala) signifies an associative group of people, which is more or less the same as "association" or "organisation". I really don't understand where did you learn that the romanian NGOs are "struggling against the 'hegemony of the government'", and "the term also has an anti-communist connotation". Also I don't think someone who states that he cares for neutral points of view should appreciate so easily that a group is "too small" to qualify as NGO; according to romanian law, an NGO must have at least 3 members to exist. But anyway, since there is small difference, i agree with the term you used.
2. You are misinformed. In the 3 organisations included by me, only one (Provita for the born and the unborn) has in its activity the aim of combating abortion, but all 3 of them develop social activities like caring orphans, abandoned or HIV-infected children. So, we are talking about born children, i hope you agree. Besides this, at least one of the NGOs mentioned shall appeal in court the CNCD Decision we are talking about here, on behalf of the children it cares about - who are affected by the Decision, as they are part of a very religious community and they brought, at their own will, icons and crucifixes in the public schools they go to. That's why i find relevant the inclusion of them in the article. Also, Romanian Children's Appeal Foundation is one of the most important organisations of its kind in Romania. Please check.
3. If Napoleon Savescu is "not representing a mainstream view", how come you included Valentin Hossu-Longin (ex-collaborator of romanian communist secret service) and Cozmin Gusa, an obscure politican?! Are they "high-profile personalities" and do they represent "broader romanian society"? I think it's objectionable. Anyway, as you could observe, I didn't delete these two names you included, i just added Mr. Savescu. He is definitely a personality among cultural and historical-related circles! Regarding your wicked "maybe in right-wing Altermedian circles", i see it as a joke.
4. A look at your profile makes clear for me why did you label Altermedia, Rost and Romanian Association for Heritage as "far-right" and extremists, when they are in fact right-wing christian-nationalistic. You wrote in your profile: "I'm a liberal in the social sense and a centrist in the economic sense. Therefore, I support quite strongly things like minority rights, abortion, same-sex marriage, euthanasia as well as individual liberties, and I'm against the death penalty. I'm atheist and strongly support the separation between the church and state, and I abhor it when the law involves itself in moral issues, particularly victimless crimes." That is in my opinion the profile of a far left-wing person, which explains your interpretation. Well, it's your choice, but don't give me please your biased views as "neutral points of view". What if I would label Indymedia, in "history" section of the disputed article, as "far-left media outlet"? I could give you examples why I think that, as you did concerning the three organisations, but it's not my purpose ever to start a dispute about what is left, what is right and how far goes "far". What if (I am also involved in Provita Association so i work with pro-life issues) I would label you as a nazi, just because the nazis supported and promoted euthanasia, just like you. Wouldn't be so stupid?
Just a special mention regarding Altermedia, who i (also) represent here: as in the Indymedia case, Altermedia has many branches, who work and develop independently. Romanian section is in no way responsible for what the other section are writing, spreading and their admins are thinking, and never did romanian section promote such concept as "white supremacy" - a nonsense from the christian point of view.
In conclusion, i consider my version fair. I don't know what is the wikipedia procedure for resolving disputes, but i state firmly my position. Greetings, Altermediaro ✉
09:46, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
Hello, back in town after a long break.
As the issue continues to draw attention and also many things happened since our last meeting here, i am going to prepare a follow-up of the article in the next weeks.
Sorry for being out such a long time, my professional and family duties kept me away.
First of all a short explanation about my last change in the article. Although, due to my duties i do not have the time and personal energy needed for launching a discussion on such a topic as 'is Altermedia far right or not', especially with a person who is ~180 degrees my opposite i must take care that such an important online resource as Wikipedia does not defame the organization i run and i have founded. I understand you position and your points of view; we are very different so i think we can argue forever - which i am not willing to do. I have deleted the word 'far' in front of 'right-wing'. In my opinion the phrase is now much more accurate.
If you do not agree with the change, i propose plain and simple to delete the mention to Altermedia, how much more so we did not have an important contribution to this issue. There is no way i can admit a tricky reference to our NGO on Wikipedia. Even in English. (Also, i would say that to name ROST and R.A. for Heritage as 'far right' is absolutely ridiculous, but it is not my business to defend them.)
I saw that unfortunately you deleted the reference to Asociatia Provita Bucharest, a charity NGO for child care; as you shall see for yourself in my follow-up that the mention was right in.
Finally, let me introduce myself: Bogdan I. Stanciu, founder and vicepreseident of Altermedia, co-editor of ro.Altermedia.info, co-founder and coordinator for Provita Bucharest. I would be glad to know your name. If possible, of course.
Altermediaro ✉ 20:29, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
Hello again.
1. I see you tried hard to find on the internet mentions linking "Altermedia" to "far right". In fact:
To support my position i shall give you only one information, and this is a real fact: Altermedia coordinator, Bogdan Ioan Stanciu (me!) has been awarded with the "Ordinul Ziaristilor" (Journalist's Medal), for his activity in Altermedia, by the Union of Professional Journalists of Romania (UZP), the most respected organization of its kind in Romania. Here is one source Here is another one. I don't think UZP would award a far-right activist.
I shall start writing an article about Altermedia when i will feel like, but seriously your attitude puzzles me and makes me wonder if that worths the effort.
2. About pro-vita:
First of all, Provita Association has been created in order to structure and legally shape an activity, that started several years ago, of saving from material disappearance as well as of psychical and moral recovery of several children placed on the periphery of society and denied by the same. The total number of assisted in this moment are 216 persons, especially children born due to giving up abortion and let in the care of the Association, in full confidentiality conditions, on a shorter or longer period of time. Here is the source.
Second, Pro-vita filled a lawsuit in march this year against CNCD's Decision 323/2006. The trial is going on in Bucharest Appeal Court. Do you find that as a relevant information, relevant enough to keep mentioning Provita in the article? I hope so.
Anyway, it is my fault, i failed to update the article, which i should do, but i prefer to wait for the trial to go on a little bit more. I have to mention that i lead Provita also. Altermediaro 08:11, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
Hello again,
It's almost one year since i didn't log in to my en.wp account.
I hope you know by the date that the case trial is over, the Supreme Court dismissed CNCD's decision. See here ICCJ: Prezenta simbolurilor religioase in scoli este legala and here Comunicat al “Coalitiei pentru Respectarea Sentimentului Religios”. Maybe you could update the article accordingly.
In the meantime i have learned who really WP is, who has the hands on it and that explains to me this harsh leftist, pollitically correct attitude. I am not interested anymore in it. Have a nice life. Altermediaro ( talk) 06:36, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
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We mention a shopping center being built right by St Joseph's. Is it this project, now under way (crane in photo)? - Jmabel | Talk 03:09, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
Hi. User:Altermediaro (presumably a representative of the far right-wing "guerrilla" media agency, Altermedia Romania), keeps reverting to a POV version of the "Civic Media petition" section of this article. As it stands, I have a number of issues with this version:
Thanks, Ronline ✉ 07:27, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
Hi!
Although i see you and i have different points of view that most probably cannot be brought togheter, I'll try to explain the issues in a few words.
1. In Romania, NGO (Organizatie Non-Guvernamentala) signifies an associative group of people, which is more or less the same as "association" or "organisation". I really don't understand where did you learn that the romanian NGOs are "struggling against the 'hegemony of the government'", and "the term also has an anti-communist connotation". Also I don't think someone who states that he cares for neutral points of view should appreciate so easily that a group is "too small" to qualify as NGO; according to romanian law, an NGO must have at least 3 members to exist. But anyway, since there is small difference, i agree with the term you used.
2. You are misinformed. In the 3 organisations included by me, only one (Provita for the born and the unborn) has in its activity the aim of combating abortion, but all 3 of them develop social activities like caring orphans, abandoned or HIV-infected children. So, we are talking about born children, i hope you agree. Besides this, at least one of the NGOs mentioned shall appeal in court the CNCD Decision we are talking about here, on behalf of the children it cares about - who are affected by the Decision, as they are part of a very religious community and they brought, at their own will, icons and crucifixes in the public schools they go to. That's why i find relevant the inclusion of them in the article. Also, Romanian Children's Appeal Foundation is one of the most important organisations of its kind in Romania. Please check.
3. If Napoleon Savescu is "not representing a mainstream view", how come you included Valentin Hossu-Longin (ex-collaborator of romanian communist secret service) and Cozmin Gusa, an obscure politican?! Are they "high-profile personalities" and do they represent "broader romanian society"? I think it's objectionable. Anyway, as you could observe, I didn't delete these two names you included, i just added Mr. Savescu. He is definitely a personality among cultural and historical-related circles! Regarding your wicked "maybe in right-wing Altermedian circles", i see it as a joke.
4. A look at your profile makes clear for me why did you label Altermedia, Rost and Romanian Association for Heritage as "far-right" and extremists, when they are in fact right-wing christian-nationalistic. You wrote in your profile: "I'm a liberal in the social sense and a centrist in the economic sense. Therefore, I support quite strongly things like minority rights, abortion, same-sex marriage, euthanasia as well as individual liberties, and I'm against the death penalty. I'm atheist and strongly support the separation between the church and state, and I abhor it when the law involves itself in moral issues, particularly victimless crimes." That is in my opinion the profile of a far left-wing person, which explains your interpretation. Well, it's your choice, but don't give me please your biased views as "neutral points of view". What if I would label Indymedia, in "history" section of the disputed article, as "far-left media outlet"? I could give you examples why I think that, as you did concerning the three organisations, but it's not my purpose ever to start a dispute about what is left, what is right and how far goes "far". What if (I am also involved in Provita Association so i work with pro-life issues) I would label you as a nazi, just because the nazis supported and promoted euthanasia, just like you. Wouldn't be so stupid?
Just a special mention regarding Altermedia, who i (also) represent here: as in the Indymedia case, Altermedia has many branches, who work and develop independently. Romanian section is in no way responsible for what the other section are writing, spreading and their admins are thinking, and never did romanian section promote such concept as "white supremacy" - a nonsense from the christian point of view.
In conclusion, i consider my version fair. I don't know what is the wikipedia procedure for resolving disputes, but i state firmly my position. Greetings, Altermediaro ✉
09:46, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
Hello, back in town after a long break.
As the issue continues to draw attention and also many things happened since our last meeting here, i am going to prepare a follow-up of the article in the next weeks.
Sorry for being out such a long time, my professional and family duties kept me away.
First of all a short explanation about my last change in the article. Although, due to my duties i do not have the time and personal energy needed for launching a discussion on such a topic as 'is Altermedia far right or not', especially with a person who is ~180 degrees my opposite i must take care that such an important online resource as Wikipedia does not defame the organization i run and i have founded. I understand you position and your points of view; we are very different so i think we can argue forever - which i am not willing to do. I have deleted the word 'far' in front of 'right-wing'. In my opinion the phrase is now much more accurate.
If you do not agree with the change, i propose plain and simple to delete the mention to Altermedia, how much more so we did not have an important contribution to this issue. There is no way i can admit a tricky reference to our NGO on Wikipedia. Even in English. (Also, i would say that to name ROST and R.A. for Heritage as 'far right' is absolutely ridiculous, but it is not my business to defend them.)
I saw that unfortunately you deleted the reference to Asociatia Provita Bucharest, a charity NGO for child care; as you shall see for yourself in my follow-up that the mention was right in.
Finally, let me introduce myself: Bogdan I. Stanciu, founder and vicepreseident of Altermedia, co-editor of ro.Altermedia.info, co-founder and coordinator for Provita Bucharest. I would be glad to know your name. If possible, of course.
Altermediaro ✉ 20:29, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
Hello again.
1. I see you tried hard to find on the internet mentions linking "Altermedia" to "far right". In fact:
To support my position i shall give you only one information, and this is a real fact: Altermedia coordinator, Bogdan Ioan Stanciu (me!) has been awarded with the "Ordinul Ziaristilor" (Journalist's Medal), for his activity in Altermedia, by the Union of Professional Journalists of Romania (UZP), the most respected organization of its kind in Romania. Here is one source Here is another one. I don't think UZP would award a far-right activist.
I shall start writing an article about Altermedia when i will feel like, but seriously your attitude puzzles me and makes me wonder if that worths the effort.
2. About pro-vita:
First of all, Provita Association has been created in order to structure and legally shape an activity, that started several years ago, of saving from material disappearance as well as of psychical and moral recovery of several children placed on the periphery of society and denied by the same. The total number of assisted in this moment are 216 persons, especially children born due to giving up abortion and let in the care of the Association, in full confidentiality conditions, on a shorter or longer period of time. Here is the source.
Second, Pro-vita filled a lawsuit in march this year against CNCD's Decision 323/2006. The trial is going on in Bucharest Appeal Court. Do you find that as a relevant information, relevant enough to keep mentioning Provita in the article? I hope so.
Anyway, it is my fault, i failed to update the article, which i should do, but i prefer to wait for the trial to go on a little bit more. I have to mention that i lead Provita also. Altermediaro 08:11, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
Hello again,
It's almost one year since i didn't log in to my en.wp account.
I hope you know by the date that the case trial is over, the Supreme Court dismissed CNCD's decision. See here ICCJ: Prezenta simbolurilor religioase in scoli este legala and here Comunicat al “Coalitiei pentru Respectarea Sentimentului Religios”. Maybe you could update the article accordingly.
In the meantime i have learned who really WP is, who has the hands on it and that explains to me this harsh leftist, pollitically correct attitude. I am not interested anymore in it. Have a nice life. Altermediaro ( talk) 06:36, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 3 external links on CNCD Decision 323/2006. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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This message was posted before February 2018.
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regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 17:07, 28 July 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on CNCD Decision 323/2006. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 12:12, 20 September 2017 (UTC)