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The Mk18 has been around for about 10 years now, more USSOCOM, USN, USMC, and USCG units use it than just the SEALs, and at least DEVGRU has been using 10" HK416s since at least last May when they killed Osama bin Laden. Also, NAVSPECWAR placed an order for some Mk16s and Mk17s for testing after USSOCOM canceled their original joint-service order for Mk16s. Shouldn't at least the HK416 be mentioned alongside the Mk18? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 107.9.21.31 ( talk) 16:07, 2 June 2012 (UTC)
If the scoped carbine in the pic is a Sporter carbine, why's it labeled an M16A1 carbine? I'm sure the differences between a Sporter carbine and a military M16A1 carbine are apparent enough. Spartan198 ( talk) 10:35, 6 July 2008 (UTC) Spartan198
It is my belief that this page should be deleted in favor of the Colt Commando entry. -- Thatguy96 23:13, 14 Aug 2005 (UTC)
Hi, I'm new, but I saw the article for the Colt Commando and decided to drop in. I've got some tabular data regarding the XM-177/CAR-15 series, and some interesting external links, but this CAR-15 page is big and I don't want to muck about in it. I'd rather talk to the authors and work with them.
-- Blikbok 23:32, 8 Sep 2004 (UTC)
I think that the Colt Commando article should be merged with CAR-15 since Colt Commandos are a subset of CAR-15. Right now the Commando article discusses things that are definitely not Commandos, such as the RO608 CAR-15 Survival Rifle, RO607 CAR-15 SMG, or RO605 CAR-15 Carbine. Commando was first used on the RO609 XM177E1 and then for the 730/930 series.
I also propose that the CAR-15 section be composed of two many sections, one for the 1965 CAR-15 weapons system, the Model 603 XM16E1, the Model 604 M16, the Model 605 carbine, the Model 606 Heavy Assault Rifle M1, Heavy Assault Rifle M2, Model 607 SMG, and Model 608 Survival Rifle. Without a doubt, they are CAR-15s. (The RO601 Colt Armalite AR-15 was definitely not a clone of the Armalite AR-15. Note how the Armalite AR-15 had features like a single conical fiberglass handguard, different selector level positions, the inside-the-carrying-handle charging handle, etc.) The second section should be on the numerous M16 variants that have seen widespread use but were not adopted for wide use by the US military. Even if people disagree about whether they should be correctly called CAR-15s, it is a fact that CAR-15 is a popular name for those variants, and people looking for information on Wikipedia would probably type in CAR-15 in the search box. Where on Wikipedia should people look for information on the RO653 carbine? The M16 page is already large and beyond Wikipedia recommendations, so the non-standardized variants could be covered in CAR-15 instead. For example, the RO655 and RO656 were never type-classified and should not be on the M16 page. The RO653 carbine was definitely in use by the US military, as can be seen by numerous pictures of SEALs, Rangers, etc. There are also all the USAF carbines.
I think that M16A1 variants can rightfully be called CAR-15s. CAR-15 stands for Colt Automatic Rifle-15. Colt obviously prefers that people think AR stand for Automatic Rifle, not Armalite. Everyone agrees the Models 603, 604, 605, 606, 607, and 608 are CAR-15s. The Model 609 and 610 were regarded as CAR-15s too. The US Army ordered, 2815 CAR-15 "Commando model" on June 28, 1966. These were not the RO607 SMG, but the RO609 SMG. Only about 50 of the Model 607 SMGs were ever made. A Prelimination Operation and Maintenance Manual dated September 1966 was issued for the "Submachine Gun, 5.56-mm, CAR-15". Documents show that in January 1967 "The Type Designator SUB MACHINE GUN, 5.56mm, XM177 (Air Force Version) and XM177E1 (Army Version) has tenatively been assigned to the CAR-15 SMG."
I think all M16A1 derivatives should be regarded as CAR-15s too, because they were marked Colt AR-15, and in most cases, were export versions of the original seven. The Model 601 was stamped Colt Armalite AR-15. The Models 602, 603, 604, 605, 606, 607, 608, 609, 610, 613, 614, 619, 639, 651, 652, 653, 655, 656 all had the prancing pony, and Colt AR-15 in big letters. Underneath all of that would be the Model number, Cal 5.56mm, and serial number for commercial versions. The Model 619 had Commando instead of model number. For military rifles, underneath would be Property of U.S. Govt., M16A1, Cal. 5.56mm, and serial number. The Model 609 had Commando instead of M16A1.-- Pettifogger
This entry concerns the US military-issued M16 rifle. For information regarding US modern-era carbines, see M4 Carbine. For information regarding earlier US carbines, see CAR-15. For all other variants, see AR-15/M16 variants.
pictures needed!!!
I deferred to those with much more extensive than me regarding these weapons, but right now, I think the CAR-15 and Colt Commando articles are a mess. Having both articles creates confusion, as seen by the recent edits to the CAR-15 article. They are unnecessarily duplicative of each other, both discussing the Model 605 carbine and Model 608 survival rifle, for example. They link to each other, because the Colt Commando needs the CAR-15 as part of its history, and the CAR-15 uses the Colt Commando article for extensive discussion of the XM177 series. The Colt Commando article seems to be used for any Vietnam carbine and beyond, including the Colt 653 M16A1 carbine and the Colt M723 Carbine. However, for those particular carbines, even if it may be incorrect, CAR-15 is the common term used. For example, the KAC Masterkey, Gary Gordon, Randy Shughart, and all of the Israeli military articles reference CAR-15, though they're talking about Model 653s and Model 723s, but a reader won't find much about them in the CAR-15 article. The two articles really need to be merged. A proposed draft of the new article will be at User:Pettifogger/CAR-15. Pettifogger 11:19, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
Colt Commando article before butchering with table -- Tom of north wales 16:59, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
It should have weapon on the title so that people don't confuse it for a car that you drive.
"CAR-15" isn't the name of any existing automobile, so I don't think that'll be an issue. Spartan198 ( talk) 04:22, 13 January 2009 (UTC) Spartan198
This table should be moved to its own page as it is too long and is not particularly relevant for this article. Perhaps a 'Colt AR-15 Variants' article should be created. X360 04:56, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
I have started to put together a new article for this list. I have made a few minor edits (U.S. Military in bold was typed twice). Please edit and update this page rather than the old one in this CAR-15 article. I hope eventually the list in this page will be removed, and a link for a complete list will be mentioned. X360 06:23, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
A couple times in the past I've tried to find the XM607 and other models on wikipedia, but a standard search just brings up the Vulcan/Blackbuck vehicle. Turns out that this article lists those variants as "Model 607" or similar. Would it be possible to also mention that they went by the terms XM607, XM605, etc., or would that be historically inaccurate? MatthewVanitas ( talk) 12:48, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
I was just on IMFDB reading a topic about this photo and one of the members pointed out that the weapon in his hands is an MGC replica commonly used in movies and NOT a live-firing weapon. Here, read the topic for yourself: [2] If the guys in that photo are SEALs, I'm Scott Mitchell (the Captain from Ghost Recon 2/GRAW/GRAW2, if you don't get the reference). Spartan198 ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 09:38, 5 August 2009 (UTC).
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The Post Vietnam section of the CAR-15, there is no sources sited saying that the CAR-15 was referred to as the M16 Carbine. I have searched for sources but I have found no sources saying that the CAR-15 was referred to as the M16 Carbine. FPS James Bond 007 ( talk) 22:12, 16 May 2022 (UTC)
I have seen this image used quite a bit in discussions regarding the CAR-15/Colt Commando, however the weapon in the photo is not a weapon at all, but rather a Model Gun Corp CAR-15. Photos for reference: https://2img.net/h/i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/beninbronze/2013-12-24_zpsc8591c08.jpg https://2img.net/h/i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/beninbronze/DSCF7795_zpsfb61e4c2.jpg
The "Colt Commando" in the Navy Seals photo lines up perfectly. Its got an oversized selector, completely round front pivot pin, 2 trigger pins stacked on top of each other on the lower, and the distinctive undersized fake forward assist, something that is a trademark of these MGC AR-15 replicas. It seems that nearly 15 years ago this was brought up and it was removed, but the photo was added back. 161.38.158.248 ( talk) 21:55, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
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The Mk18 has been around for about 10 years now, more USSOCOM, USN, USMC, and USCG units use it than just the SEALs, and at least DEVGRU has been using 10" HK416s since at least last May when they killed Osama bin Laden. Also, NAVSPECWAR placed an order for some Mk16s and Mk17s for testing after USSOCOM canceled their original joint-service order for Mk16s. Shouldn't at least the HK416 be mentioned alongside the Mk18? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 107.9.21.31 ( talk) 16:07, 2 June 2012 (UTC)
If the scoped carbine in the pic is a Sporter carbine, why's it labeled an M16A1 carbine? I'm sure the differences between a Sporter carbine and a military M16A1 carbine are apparent enough. Spartan198 ( talk) 10:35, 6 July 2008 (UTC) Spartan198
It is my belief that this page should be deleted in favor of the Colt Commando entry. -- Thatguy96 23:13, 14 Aug 2005 (UTC)
Hi, I'm new, but I saw the article for the Colt Commando and decided to drop in. I've got some tabular data regarding the XM-177/CAR-15 series, and some interesting external links, but this CAR-15 page is big and I don't want to muck about in it. I'd rather talk to the authors and work with them.
-- Blikbok 23:32, 8 Sep 2004 (UTC)
I think that the Colt Commando article should be merged with CAR-15 since Colt Commandos are a subset of CAR-15. Right now the Commando article discusses things that are definitely not Commandos, such as the RO608 CAR-15 Survival Rifle, RO607 CAR-15 SMG, or RO605 CAR-15 Carbine. Commando was first used on the RO609 XM177E1 and then for the 730/930 series.
I also propose that the CAR-15 section be composed of two many sections, one for the 1965 CAR-15 weapons system, the Model 603 XM16E1, the Model 604 M16, the Model 605 carbine, the Model 606 Heavy Assault Rifle M1, Heavy Assault Rifle M2, Model 607 SMG, and Model 608 Survival Rifle. Without a doubt, they are CAR-15s. (The RO601 Colt Armalite AR-15 was definitely not a clone of the Armalite AR-15. Note how the Armalite AR-15 had features like a single conical fiberglass handguard, different selector level positions, the inside-the-carrying-handle charging handle, etc.) The second section should be on the numerous M16 variants that have seen widespread use but were not adopted for wide use by the US military. Even if people disagree about whether they should be correctly called CAR-15s, it is a fact that CAR-15 is a popular name for those variants, and people looking for information on Wikipedia would probably type in CAR-15 in the search box. Where on Wikipedia should people look for information on the RO653 carbine? The M16 page is already large and beyond Wikipedia recommendations, so the non-standardized variants could be covered in CAR-15 instead. For example, the RO655 and RO656 were never type-classified and should not be on the M16 page. The RO653 carbine was definitely in use by the US military, as can be seen by numerous pictures of SEALs, Rangers, etc. There are also all the USAF carbines.
I think that M16A1 variants can rightfully be called CAR-15s. CAR-15 stands for Colt Automatic Rifle-15. Colt obviously prefers that people think AR stand for Automatic Rifle, not Armalite. Everyone agrees the Models 603, 604, 605, 606, 607, and 608 are CAR-15s. The Model 609 and 610 were regarded as CAR-15s too. The US Army ordered, 2815 CAR-15 "Commando model" on June 28, 1966. These were not the RO607 SMG, but the RO609 SMG. Only about 50 of the Model 607 SMGs were ever made. A Prelimination Operation and Maintenance Manual dated September 1966 was issued for the "Submachine Gun, 5.56-mm, CAR-15". Documents show that in January 1967 "The Type Designator SUB MACHINE GUN, 5.56mm, XM177 (Air Force Version) and XM177E1 (Army Version) has tenatively been assigned to the CAR-15 SMG."
I think all M16A1 derivatives should be regarded as CAR-15s too, because they were marked Colt AR-15, and in most cases, were export versions of the original seven. The Model 601 was stamped Colt Armalite AR-15. The Models 602, 603, 604, 605, 606, 607, 608, 609, 610, 613, 614, 619, 639, 651, 652, 653, 655, 656 all had the prancing pony, and Colt AR-15 in big letters. Underneath all of that would be the Model number, Cal 5.56mm, and serial number for commercial versions. The Model 619 had Commando instead of model number. For military rifles, underneath would be Property of U.S. Govt., M16A1, Cal. 5.56mm, and serial number. The Model 609 had Commando instead of M16A1.-- Pettifogger
This entry concerns the US military-issued M16 rifle. For information regarding US modern-era carbines, see M4 Carbine. For information regarding earlier US carbines, see CAR-15. For all other variants, see AR-15/M16 variants.
pictures needed!!!
I deferred to those with much more extensive than me regarding these weapons, but right now, I think the CAR-15 and Colt Commando articles are a mess. Having both articles creates confusion, as seen by the recent edits to the CAR-15 article. They are unnecessarily duplicative of each other, both discussing the Model 605 carbine and Model 608 survival rifle, for example. They link to each other, because the Colt Commando needs the CAR-15 as part of its history, and the CAR-15 uses the Colt Commando article for extensive discussion of the XM177 series. The Colt Commando article seems to be used for any Vietnam carbine and beyond, including the Colt 653 M16A1 carbine and the Colt M723 Carbine. However, for those particular carbines, even if it may be incorrect, CAR-15 is the common term used. For example, the KAC Masterkey, Gary Gordon, Randy Shughart, and all of the Israeli military articles reference CAR-15, though they're talking about Model 653s and Model 723s, but a reader won't find much about them in the CAR-15 article. The two articles really need to be merged. A proposed draft of the new article will be at User:Pettifogger/CAR-15. Pettifogger 11:19, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
Colt Commando article before butchering with table -- Tom of north wales 16:59, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
It should have weapon on the title so that people don't confuse it for a car that you drive.
"CAR-15" isn't the name of any existing automobile, so I don't think that'll be an issue. Spartan198 ( talk) 04:22, 13 January 2009 (UTC) Spartan198
This table should be moved to its own page as it is too long and is not particularly relevant for this article. Perhaps a 'Colt AR-15 Variants' article should be created. X360 04:56, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
I have started to put together a new article for this list. I have made a few minor edits (U.S. Military in bold was typed twice). Please edit and update this page rather than the old one in this CAR-15 article. I hope eventually the list in this page will be removed, and a link for a complete list will be mentioned. X360 06:23, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
A couple times in the past I've tried to find the XM607 and other models on wikipedia, but a standard search just brings up the Vulcan/Blackbuck vehicle. Turns out that this article lists those variants as "Model 607" or similar. Would it be possible to also mention that they went by the terms XM607, XM605, etc., or would that be historically inaccurate? MatthewVanitas ( talk) 12:48, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
I was just on IMFDB reading a topic about this photo and one of the members pointed out that the weapon in his hands is an MGC replica commonly used in movies and NOT a live-firing weapon. Here, read the topic for yourself: [2] If the guys in that photo are SEALs, I'm Scott Mitchell (the Captain from Ghost Recon 2/GRAW/GRAW2, if you don't get the reference). Spartan198 ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 09:38, 5 August 2009 (UTC).
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An image used in this article,
File:Ar-10.jpg, has been nominated for deletion at
Wikimedia Commons in the following category: Media without a source as of 25 July 2011
|
A discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. If you feel the deletion can be contested then please do so (
commons:COM:SPEEDY has further information). Otherwise consider finding a replacement image before deletion occurs.
This notification is provided by a Bot -- CommonsNotificationBot ( talk) 08:34, 25 July 2011 (UTC) |
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on CAR-15. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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The Post Vietnam section of the CAR-15, there is no sources sited saying that the CAR-15 was referred to as the M16 Carbine. I have searched for sources but I have found no sources saying that the CAR-15 was referred to as the M16 Carbine. FPS James Bond 007 ( talk) 22:12, 16 May 2022 (UTC)
I have seen this image used quite a bit in discussions regarding the CAR-15/Colt Commando, however the weapon in the photo is not a weapon at all, but rather a Model Gun Corp CAR-15. Photos for reference: https://2img.net/h/i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/beninbronze/2013-12-24_zpsc8591c08.jpg https://2img.net/h/i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/beninbronze/DSCF7795_zpsfb61e4c2.jpg
The "Colt Commando" in the Navy Seals photo lines up perfectly. Its got an oversized selector, completely round front pivot pin, 2 trigger pins stacked on top of each other on the lower, and the distinctive undersized fake forward assist, something that is a trademark of these MGC AR-15 replicas. It seems that nearly 15 years ago this was brought up and it was removed, but the photo was added back. 161.38.158.248 ( talk) 21:55, 11 June 2024 (UTC)