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The material here is taken from HowStuffWorks.com, which, according to the notice at the bottom of that site, is copyrighted, which is bad. I don't know what their policy is on using their material, so anyone who does should tell me; otherwise, we have a serious problem. Deltabeignet 02:37, 23 May 2005 (UTC)
A cursory review of the howstuffworks article also reveals a number of mistakes. It conflates Velocity of Detonation with blast wave propagation velocity (repeated on this wikipedia page) and is totally confused about the use of detcord and blasting caps. Any references to this article should be scrutinized. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.5.213.154 ( talk) 20:33, 15 October 2015 (UTC)
I want to link PE4 into this page because they are fundamentally the same thing. I will add a short note at the top to say CE4 as used in USA, PE4 as used in UK." TheNose | Talk" 16:41, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
"which makes up around 91% of the C-4 by weight"
weight -> mass?
-- MedeaMelana 23:53, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
In fact, percentage by weight equals percentage by mass in any context where weight makes sense at all. Colin McLarty ( talk) 22:51, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
Article needs to have information added about when C-4 invented, where it was invented, and by whom. — Lowellian ( reply) 14:01, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
The page claims that C4 can be detonated by an "electrical jolt" - is there any truth to this? It seems to me that, given its consistency, C4 is probably not a good conductor of electricity whatsoever. The HowStuffWorks page indicates that only detonators and blasting caps will set off C4. Now, an electrical _detonator_ would be an ideal way to set off C4, but it's the detonation, not the electricity, that does the job, right? Can anyone confirm or deny? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.96.102.16 ( talk) 21:15, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
"Using explosives provides the easiest and fastest way to break the frozen ground. However, the use of demolitions will be restricted when under enemy observation. ..." - What on earth is this paragraph doing here? Move it to some page about military use of explosives or whatever. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.226.137.208 ( talk) 19:48, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
The paragraph concerning the ingestion of C4 to feign illness is outrageously irresponsible. C4 is a poisonous substance; ingesting it is highly dangerous and quite likely fatal. This is akin to telling the readers that 'just a little rat poison' would get them out of shcool. It's hard to imagine any adult would have posted this.
If you find it necessary to repeat the potentially fatal urban legend from Herr's book, the least you could do is balance it with this bold print warning from FM 5-250, Explosive and Demolitions: "WARNING Composition C4 explosive is poisonous and dangerous if chewed or ingested; its detonation or burning produces poisonous fumes." 67.181.14.90 ( talk) 20:14, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
Can we please stick with one or the other—preferably the official, correct one? "Composition C-4" was used originally (I think), then it was changed to "Composition 4", then back, now the introduction says "Composition 4" but "C-4" is used in the rest of the article. I'm pretty sure it's "Composition C-4", but I'm not an expert and don't have any reference material on-hand. 68.14.133.151 ( talk) 21:50, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
By the way, wouldn't the C4 plastic explosives compact size (big explosion from a small package) be considered an advantage, or would this go in the C4 being moldable in shape? - 67.173.188.118 ( talk) 22:10, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
All references within the article were recently changed from "C-4" to "C4". If this is correct, the article should be renamed as well. (Likewise articles such as Composition C should be updated.) Mitch Ames ( talk) 04:02, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
Is it possible to detonate C4 underwater and still get the same effects as an out-of-water detonation? Heated Pete 19:57, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
No, its not possible as there are too many variables. Also I would Create a page on C-6 and Link it to this one since they are almost the same but C-6 is a more powerful form of C-4 Loki1488 ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 23:51, 9 February 2011 (UTC).
I have been told by a former Infantry Captain in Vietnam that there was a downside to using C-4 to heat C-Rations. While a small piece burns well for that purpose, it also illuminates the campsite at night. Supposedly troops lost legs by stepping on a piece of burning C-4 to put it out. Perhaps it is shock sensitive when it is burning. This should be addressed in the article. I do know that molten ammonium nitrate will detonate with shock. Trojancowboy ( talk) 00:44, 3 June 2011 (UTC)
As to the citation needed for this topic, I spent most of the year of 1967 just south of the DMZ with the USMC. We did indeed heat C-Ration meals with very small chunks of C-4, about half the size of an ordinary marble. Not often, but the sterno tablets were in short supply and of such low heat that even if you had three or four, it took a considerable amount of time just to warm up a can. Since the weather was usually so hot, and C-Rations not being exactly delicious fast food, they were mostly just eaten as fast as possible to get the task over. The one thing that was quickly learned, is that C-4 burns very hot, and continual and very vigorous stirring is needed to keep the meal from being burned at the bottom of the can. We had no stoves, so I just usually opened the can, leaving the lid attached and bent back, and just held it over the sterno or C-4, while stirring with the other hand.
As to the tale that burning C-4 explodes when stomped on, we definitely knew of that supposed fact. Unfortunately, at this time, 45 or so years after the fact, I can't remember if I actually did that, saw someone do that, or just recall someone telling me that it would blow your foot off if you tried it.
And, of course, we would never light a piece of C-4 at night - period. Or while on patrol. Only while in a firebase, such as Con Thien, and then only at the bottom of a trench or foxhole, or behind sandbags.
Cplkrf ( talk) 03:04, 13 December 2012 (UTC)cplkrf
The article has had a number of improvements made during week 29 of 2014 as part of Articles for Improvement weekly selection. As it stands now there is no un-sourced content, but the Development section of History is empty and could do with some work. I have not been able to find an online source on the development of c4 but I'm sure there are books on the subject. Flat Out let's discuss it 04:53, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
I think the section labeled 'Similar' maybe should be removed because the only major fact in that section relates to PE4 and Semtex, but I found an article on ACS Pub which mentions PE4 as simply being the label for C-4 manufactured and used in England which I included in my creation and editing of the section labeled 'Grades'. So I believe this other section may be inaccurate and similar explosives which are not C-4 may not be pertinent to the article. Instead perhaps better suited to a more generalized article having to do with explosive compounds.
I think other editors may find 'Grades' a great section to focus on. In my research I've found quite a lot of information, it can just be very difficult to find. I suspect it's rather difficult to find for a couple reasons, 1) it's a government controlled substance. 2) simply the name of the thing "C-4" can make it hard to formulate a worthy search query.
Might I suggest, if you are doing any research, try narrowing your searches to sites in the government and medical domains and you may have more success. It's also quite worth it to consider using advanced search methods if your using Google to find stuff. Using appropriate query methods to exclude and link search words and phrases together are going to have a major impact on the quality of your results in Google. When I first started searching basic terms like "C-4", and "Composition-4" I wasn't finding anything but when I started searching for things like "C-4 AND explosive-compound AND analysis molecular" the quality of results improved exponentially. You'll find that reliable references may also refer to C-4 as "Comp-C4", or "Composition-4", or in military terms such as "M118". There's also a lot of information to be found in regard to investigative/medical/molecular analysis and composition.
If you try simply searching the term "C-4", "C4", or even "C4 explosive" you'll most likely end up with very little or poor quality results. More specifically places such as www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov, chemstone.net, www.nist.gov, www.fema.gov, www.nist.gov, www.fbi.gov, www.nps.gov. I've found these to all be highly qualified and rich with information. I'm quite sure if you start digging you'll be able to find more information in these locations.
I did a bunch of work on this article today but am calling it a night and probably won't have any more time to work on this one so hopefully somebody finds this info useful and can continue on with it. Thx. David Condrey ( talk) 05:59, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
Should the section Grades really be a subsection of Composition and not its own section? CSJJ104 ( talk) 20:44, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
Just wanted to apologize, yesterday I think I overwrote someone else's edits while we were editing at the same time. I've never encountered that before and had trouble figuring out how to proceed. Looking at page history I saw my error and that it was resolved. Sorry. Could someone let me know where to find info on how to deal with conflicting edits in case that happens again? Thanks. David Condrey ( talk) 05:14, 17 July 2014 (UTC)
As has been mentioned previously on this talk page, there is some debate as to the use of C4 vs C-4. As the consensus of these discussions seems to be in favour of C4, and as this is the current article for improvement, I would like to propose changing the articles name to C4 (explosive) — Preceding unsigned comment added by CSJJ104 ( talk • contribs) 21:28, 17 July 2014 (UTC)
Hi all! David Condrey has done an *amazing* job finding material for the article! Thanks a lot for that, David. Most of the additions, though, are copied almost verbatim from the sources, and this goes against Wikipedia's copyright policy. I'm sure you all agree that it would be too bad to find so much relevant material and then have it deleted because it violates copyrights. This means we need to rephrase it all. I've started doing that, but the material is very technical and difficult to understand, so I can't do much in the limited time I have. Anyway, just wanted to let everybody know. Cheers! Madalibi ( talk) 11:03, 18 July 2014 (UTC)
I have tagged the section because of two problems:
Finnusertop ( talk) 23:30, 18 July 2014 (UTC)
The Anarchist Cookbook is not reference material. Mention of The Anarchist Cookbook provides no benefit for this article. I propose that it (and related information) be deleted from the article. Kyle (talk) 05:16, 20 July 2014 (UTC)
There seems to be a contradiction between the prose part of the safety section and the chart that comes after it. In the text, it states that when bullets were fired at the C-4 only 20% of the time did it burn and it did not explode. However, in the chart, it states that there were explosions 20% of the time. If the text is correct, the chart should either say that there were explosions 0% of the time, or the label should be the percentage of times that it burned, rather than exploded. Steve Marethyu ( talk) 18:55, 16 June 2016 (UTC)
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This edit has been made twice by two very similar IPs with the explanation "Fixed incorrect info." Please discuss why you believe this information is incorrect before removing it again. – dlthewave ☎ 16:08, 25 November 2017 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | This article was selected as the article for improvement on 13 July 2014 for a period of one week. |
![]() | This article was selected as the article for improvement on 21 October 2013 for a period of one week. |
The material here is taken from HowStuffWorks.com, which, according to the notice at the bottom of that site, is copyrighted, which is bad. I don't know what their policy is on using their material, so anyone who does should tell me; otherwise, we have a serious problem. Deltabeignet 02:37, 23 May 2005 (UTC)
A cursory review of the howstuffworks article also reveals a number of mistakes. It conflates Velocity of Detonation with blast wave propagation velocity (repeated on this wikipedia page) and is totally confused about the use of detcord and blasting caps. Any references to this article should be scrutinized. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.5.213.154 ( talk) 20:33, 15 October 2015 (UTC)
I want to link PE4 into this page because they are fundamentally the same thing. I will add a short note at the top to say CE4 as used in USA, PE4 as used in UK." TheNose | Talk" 16:41, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
"which makes up around 91% of the C-4 by weight"
weight -> mass?
-- MedeaMelana 23:53, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
In fact, percentage by weight equals percentage by mass in any context where weight makes sense at all. Colin McLarty ( talk) 22:51, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
Article needs to have information added about when C-4 invented, where it was invented, and by whom. — Lowellian ( reply) 14:01, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
The page claims that C4 can be detonated by an "electrical jolt" - is there any truth to this? It seems to me that, given its consistency, C4 is probably not a good conductor of electricity whatsoever. The HowStuffWorks page indicates that only detonators and blasting caps will set off C4. Now, an electrical _detonator_ would be an ideal way to set off C4, but it's the detonation, not the electricity, that does the job, right? Can anyone confirm or deny? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.96.102.16 ( talk) 21:15, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
"Using explosives provides the easiest and fastest way to break the frozen ground. However, the use of demolitions will be restricted when under enemy observation. ..." - What on earth is this paragraph doing here? Move it to some page about military use of explosives or whatever. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.226.137.208 ( talk) 19:48, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
The paragraph concerning the ingestion of C4 to feign illness is outrageously irresponsible. C4 is a poisonous substance; ingesting it is highly dangerous and quite likely fatal. This is akin to telling the readers that 'just a little rat poison' would get them out of shcool. It's hard to imagine any adult would have posted this.
If you find it necessary to repeat the potentially fatal urban legend from Herr's book, the least you could do is balance it with this bold print warning from FM 5-250, Explosive and Demolitions: "WARNING Composition C4 explosive is poisonous and dangerous if chewed or ingested; its detonation or burning produces poisonous fumes." 67.181.14.90 ( talk) 20:14, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
Can we please stick with one or the other—preferably the official, correct one? "Composition C-4" was used originally (I think), then it was changed to "Composition 4", then back, now the introduction says "Composition 4" but "C-4" is used in the rest of the article. I'm pretty sure it's "Composition C-4", but I'm not an expert and don't have any reference material on-hand. 68.14.133.151 ( talk) 21:50, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
By the way, wouldn't the C4 plastic explosives compact size (big explosion from a small package) be considered an advantage, or would this go in the C4 being moldable in shape? - 67.173.188.118 ( talk) 22:10, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
All references within the article were recently changed from "C-4" to "C4". If this is correct, the article should be renamed as well. (Likewise articles such as Composition C should be updated.) Mitch Ames ( talk) 04:02, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
Is it possible to detonate C4 underwater and still get the same effects as an out-of-water detonation? Heated Pete 19:57, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
No, its not possible as there are too many variables. Also I would Create a page on C-6 and Link it to this one since they are almost the same but C-6 is a more powerful form of C-4 Loki1488 ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 23:51, 9 February 2011 (UTC).
I have been told by a former Infantry Captain in Vietnam that there was a downside to using C-4 to heat C-Rations. While a small piece burns well for that purpose, it also illuminates the campsite at night. Supposedly troops lost legs by stepping on a piece of burning C-4 to put it out. Perhaps it is shock sensitive when it is burning. This should be addressed in the article. I do know that molten ammonium nitrate will detonate with shock. Trojancowboy ( talk) 00:44, 3 June 2011 (UTC)
As to the citation needed for this topic, I spent most of the year of 1967 just south of the DMZ with the USMC. We did indeed heat C-Ration meals with very small chunks of C-4, about half the size of an ordinary marble. Not often, but the sterno tablets were in short supply and of such low heat that even if you had three or four, it took a considerable amount of time just to warm up a can. Since the weather was usually so hot, and C-Rations not being exactly delicious fast food, they were mostly just eaten as fast as possible to get the task over. The one thing that was quickly learned, is that C-4 burns very hot, and continual and very vigorous stirring is needed to keep the meal from being burned at the bottom of the can. We had no stoves, so I just usually opened the can, leaving the lid attached and bent back, and just held it over the sterno or C-4, while stirring with the other hand.
As to the tale that burning C-4 explodes when stomped on, we definitely knew of that supposed fact. Unfortunately, at this time, 45 or so years after the fact, I can't remember if I actually did that, saw someone do that, or just recall someone telling me that it would blow your foot off if you tried it.
And, of course, we would never light a piece of C-4 at night - period. Or while on patrol. Only while in a firebase, such as Con Thien, and then only at the bottom of a trench or foxhole, or behind sandbags.
Cplkrf ( talk) 03:04, 13 December 2012 (UTC)cplkrf
The article has had a number of improvements made during week 29 of 2014 as part of Articles for Improvement weekly selection. As it stands now there is no un-sourced content, but the Development section of History is empty and could do with some work. I have not been able to find an online source on the development of c4 but I'm sure there are books on the subject. Flat Out let's discuss it 04:53, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
I think the section labeled 'Similar' maybe should be removed because the only major fact in that section relates to PE4 and Semtex, but I found an article on ACS Pub which mentions PE4 as simply being the label for C-4 manufactured and used in England which I included in my creation and editing of the section labeled 'Grades'. So I believe this other section may be inaccurate and similar explosives which are not C-4 may not be pertinent to the article. Instead perhaps better suited to a more generalized article having to do with explosive compounds.
I think other editors may find 'Grades' a great section to focus on. In my research I've found quite a lot of information, it can just be very difficult to find. I suspect it's rather difficult to find for a couple reasons, 1) it's a government controlled substance. 2) simply the name of the thing "C-4" can make it hard to formulate a worthy search query.
Might I suggest, if you are doing any research, try narrowing your searches to sites in the government and medical domains and you may have more success. It's also quite worth it to consider using advanced search methods if your using Google to find stuff. Using appropriate query methods to exclude and link search words and phrases together are going to have a major impact on the quality of your results in Google. When I first started searching basic terms like "C-4", and "Composition-4" I wasn't finding anything but when I started searching for things like "C-4 AND explosive-compound AND analysis molecular" the quality of results improved exponentially. You'll find that reliable references may also refer to C-4 as "Comp-C4", or "Composition-4", or in military terms such as "M118". There's also a lot of information to be found in regard to investigative/medical/molecular analysis and composition.
If you try simply searching the term "C-4", "C4", or even "C4 explosive" you'll most likely end up with very little or poor quality results. More specifically places such as www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov, chemstone.net, www.nist.gov, www.fema.gov, www.nist.gov, www.fbi.gov, www.nps.gov. I've found these to all be highly qualified and rich with information. I'm quite sure if you start digging you'll be able to find more information in these locations.
I did a bunch of work on this article today but am calling it a night and probably won't have any more time to work on this one so hopefully somebody finds this info useful and can continue on with it. Thx. David Condrey ( talk) 05:59, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
Should the section Grades really be a subsection of Composition and not its own section? CSJJ104 ( talk) 20:44, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
Just wanted to apologize, yesterday I think I overwrote someone else's edits while we were editing at the same time. I've never encountered that before and had trouble figuring out how to proceed. Looking at page history I saw my error and that it was resolved. Sorry. Could someone let me know where to find info on how to deal with conflicting edits in case that happens again? Thanks. David Condrey ( talk) 05:14, 17 July 2014 (UTC)
As has been mentioned previously on this talk page, there is some debate as to the use of C4 vs C-4. As the consensus of these discussions seems to be in favour of C4, and as this is the current article for improvement, I would like to propose changing the articles name to C4 (explosive) — Preceding unsigned comment added by CSJJ104 ( talk • contribs) 21:28, 17 July 2014 (UTC)
Hi all! David Condrey has done an *amazing* job finding material for the article! Thanks a lot for that, David. Most of the additions, though, are copied almost verbatim from the sources, and this goes against Wikipedia's copyright policy. I'm sure you all agree that it would be too bad to find so much relevant material and then have it deleted because it violates copyrights. This means we need to rephrase it all. I've started doing that, but the material is very technical and difficult to understand, so I can't do much in the limited time I have. Anyway, just wanted to let everybody know. Cheers! Madalibi ( talk) 11:03, 18 July 2014 (UTC)
I have tagged the section because of two problems:
Finnusertop ( talk) 23:30, 18 July 2014 (UTC)
The Anarchist Cookbook is not reference material. Mention of The Anarchist Cookbook provides no benefit for this article. I propose that it (and related information) be deleted from the article. Kyle (talk) 05:16, 20 July 2014 (UTC)
There seems to be a contradiction between the prose part of the safety section and the chart that comes after it. In the text, it states that when bullets were fired at the C-4 only 20% of the time did it burn and it did not explode. However, in the chart, it states that there were explosions 20% of the time. If the text is correct, the chart should either say that there were explosions 0% of the time, or the label should be the percentage of times that it burned, rather than exploded. Steve Marethyu ( talk) 18:55, 16 June 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on C-4 (explosive). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{
Sourcecheck}}
).
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 19:08, 11 November 2016 (UTC)
This edit has been made twice by two very similar IPs with the explanation "Fixed incorrect info." Please discuss why you believe this information is incorrect before removing it again. – dlthewave ☎ 16:08, 25 November 2017 (UTC)