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Byron Case article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 14:21, 11 April 2019 (UTC)
A user named Couillaud has stated in a user talk page post (see the "Connected contributor" template at the top of this page) has stated that they are a family member of one of Case's victims. In the same post, it was claimed that there may be editors working on this article who belong to an organization called "Free Byron Case". Both of these things would represent a pretty major conflict of interest with respect to this article, which means that anyone with such a conflict should refrain from directly editing the article as much as possible and make edit requests instead. -- 01:23, 12 June 2019 (UTC)
All the content of the article on a biography of a living person must be referenced by reliable sources. Neither blogs or primary sources like court proceedings or sentences are valid. We can use reporting by reliable secondary and independent sources on them. I have done some extensive editing to the article removing information that was not correctly referenced. I have added citation needed tags for information that could be relevant but needs to be properly sourced, If it is not it will also have to be removed. -- Crystallizedcarbon ( talk) 09:02, 12 June 2019 (UTC)
Do not use trial transcripts and other court records, or other public documents, to support assertions about a living person.
Has Case's date of birth been verified ? I checked the sources cited and couldn't find it anywhere. Perhaps it was in one of the sources which had been previously removed? Anyway, I've just hidden the information for the time being until it can be verified per WP:DOB. -- Marchjuly ( talk) 05:42, 14 June 2019 (UTC)
This seems like a pretty big deal which should not only be mentioned in the lead. It also probably should be supported by something more than a primary source. I've hidden it for the time being so that it can be further discussed. -- Marchjuly ( talk) 05:48, 14 June 2019 (UTC)
Since the photo was deleted as a copyvio from Commons, the infobox seems a bit unnecessary per WP:DISINFOBOX. What little information is left is either unsourced (Eastern Reception, Diagnostic and Correctional Center) and or not really enough to require an infobox. Information in an infobox (like information in the lead section of an article) should provide a summary of content appearing in the body of the article; it should really be the place where something is only mentioned and it should bascially the same info contained in the lead, only in an infobox format. -- Marchjuly ( talk) 06:13, 14 June 2019 (UTC)
I added this tag 2 days back [2], it was removed with the claim it was "no longer an issue" [3]. However the problem I highlighted in my edit summary is unresolved, so I've added it back [4].
As I tried to explain in my first edit summary, the timeline there makes absolutely no sense. It first talks about how he "self-published a number of essays and fiction online", and then in the very next sentence says "His posts initially appeared". I think many readers are going to assume these sentences both refer to the exact same material and publication of said material.
Yet if he self-published "Before his arrest and conviction for murder" this would have had to have happened before "May 2, 2002" which was when he was convicted according to our article. Heck while the date of his arrest isn't given in an article, logic would suggest it would probably have been at least 6 months maybe even a year before his conviction given the time generally taken for a murder trial to go to court. A quick look at one of the sources [5] suggests the arrest was in June 2001. Anyway even if we ignore his arrest, his posts cannot have initially appeared on a MySpace page since simple OR tells us that Myspace did not exist until 2003.
So either he did not self-publish these essays or fiction online before his arrest and conviction, or these Myspace posts were not where the material he self-published initially appeared. Perhaps the material he self-published was on usenet, a personal website, IRC (I guess you could argue that still counts as self publication), a forum, or somewhere else and then later copied to Myspace whether by Byron Case or some third party. Perhaps he self-published some material before his arrest, then later also made posts of different material on Myspace, so these posts are later works. There are many possibilities.
Whatever really happened, the section needs to be clarified and reworded so it does not such a logical impossibility i.e. him self publishing material initially on Myspace which only existed in 2003, before his arrest in 2001 (or conviction in 2002).
Nil Einne ( talk) 03:51, 16 June 2019 (UTC)
he posted to his Web site". I suspect it's referring to a personal website. Maybe something simply like Geocities or whatever but I don't think the details matter. The followup is from 2007 and says
This seems to make it clear that the MySpace blog and the postings to it came quite a long time after the personal website before his conviction. I've reworded our article accordingly [6]. One issue is I'm unsure what was taken down. I suspect it was his entire MySpace profile, but it could have also been simply his blog or even just some posts. Until a source can be found for that part, we have to be careful how we word things. BTW, the earlier change could either stay or go. From what I see, all the material discussed in the first source is from before his arrest. And since he was denied bond (per that same source), I'm doubtful he was able to continue to edit his website after his arrest. But the source doesn't seem to explicitly confirm it and I'm not sure it matters. Nil Einne ( talk) 07:41, 21 June 2019 (UTC)It's Case's MySpace blog that makes his profile interesting. Before his conviction, he posted what we described in our 2002 profile of Case as "a series of bizarre, Victorian-style letters to an imaginary 'Mr. White.'" It's easy to see his newest blog items as a follow-up. Since launching his MySpace profile in February, he's posted four entries that provide some insights into Case's prison life.
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Byron Case article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | Individuals with a conflict of interest, particularly those representing the subject of the article, are strongly advised not to directly edit the article. See Wikipedia:Conflict of interest. You may request corrections or suggest content here on the Talk page for independent editors to review, or contact us if the issue is urgent. |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | The following Wikipedia contributor has declared a personal or professional connection to the subject of this article. Relevant policies and guidelines may include
conflict of interest,
autobiography, and
neutral point of view.
|
![]() | An email has been received at
VRTS concerning some or all of the text on this page, and can be read by users with a VRTS account.
The email is in a queue awaiting processing. For an update on the issue, please contact the user ( AntiCompositeNumber) who added this template to the page, someone else with a VRTS account, or the VRT noticeboard. If a valid permission is not provided within 30 days of the first response by a VRT volunteer, the text will be deleted. |
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 14:21, 11 April 2019 (UTC)
A user named Couillaud has stated in a user talk page post (see the "Connected contributor" template at the top of this page) has stated that they are a family member of one of Case's victims. In the same post, it was claimed that there may be editors working on this article who belong to an organization called "Free Byron Case". Both of these things would represent a pretty major conflict of interest with respect to this article, which means that anyone with such a conflict should refrain from directly editing the article as much as possible and make edit requests instead. -- 01:23, 12 June 2019 (UTC)
All the content of the article on a biography of a living person must be referenced by reliable sources. Neither blogs or primary sources like court proceedings or sentences are valid. We can use reporting by reliable secondary and independent sources on them. I have done some extensive editing to the article removing information that was not correctly referenced. I have added citation needed tags for information that could be relevant but needs to be properly sourced, If it is not it will also have to be removed. -- Crystallizedcarbon ( talk) 09:02, 12 June 2019 (UTC)
Do not use trial transcripts and other court records, or other public documents, to support assertions about a living person.
Has Case's date of birth been verified ? I checked the sources cited and couldn't find it anywhere. Perhaps it was in one of the sources which had been previously removed? Anyway, I've just hidden the information for the time being until it can be verified per WP:DOB. -- Marchjuly ( talk) 05:42, 14 June 2019 (UTC)
This seems like a pretty big deal which should not only be mentioned in the lead. It also probably should be supported by something more than a primary source. I've hidden it for the time being so that it can be further discussed. -- Marchjuly ( talk) 05:48, 14 June 2019 (UTC)
Since the photo was deleted as a copyvio from Commons, the infobox seems a bit unnecessary per WP:DISINFOBOX. What little information is left is either unsourced (Eastern Reception, Diagnostic and Correctional Center) and or not really enough to require an infobox. Information in an infobox (like information in the lead section of an article) should provide a summary of content appearing in the body of the article; it should really be the place where something is only mentioned and it should bascially the same info contained in the lead, only in an infobox format. -- Marchjuly ( talk) 06:13, 14 June 2019 (UTC)
I added this tag 2 days back [2], it was removed with the claim it was "no longer an issue" [3]. However the problem I highlighted in my edit summary is unresolved, so I've added it back [4].
As I tried to explain in my first edit summary, the timeline there makes absolutely no sense. It first talks about how he "self-published a number of essays and fiction online", and then in the very next sentence says "His posts initially appeared". I think many readers are going to assume these sentences both refer to the exact same material and publication of said material.
Yet if he self-published "Before his arrest and conviction for murder" this would have had to have happened before "May 2, 2002" which was when he was convicted according to our article. Heck while the date of his arrest isn't given in an article, logic would suggest it would probably have been at least 6 months maybe even a year before his conviction given the time generally taken for a murder trial to go to court. A quick look at one of the sources [5] suggests the arrest was in June 2001. Anyway even if we ignore his arrest, his posts cannot have initially appeared on a MySpace page since simple OR tells us that Myspace did not exist until 2003.
So either he did not self-publish these essays or fiction online before his arrest and conviction, or these Myspace posts were not where the material he self-published initially appeared. Perhaps the material he self-published was on usenet, a personal website, IRC (I guess you could argue that still counts as self publication), a forum, or somewhere else and then later copied to Myspace whether by Byron Case or some third party. Perhaps he self-published some material before his arrest, then later also made posts of different material on Myspace, so these posts are later works. There are many possibilities.
Whatever really happened, the section needs to be clarified and reworded so it does not such a logical impossibility i.e. him self publishing material initially on Myspace which only existed in 2003, before his arrest in 2001 (or conviction in 2002).
Nil Einne ( talk) 03:51, 16 June 2019 (UTC)
he posted to his Web site". I suspect it's referring to a personal website. Maybe something simply like Geocities or whatever but I don't think the details matter. The followup is from 2007 and says
This seems to make it clear that the MySpace blog and the postings to it came quite a long time after the personal website before his conviction. I've reworded our article accordingly [6]. One issue is I'm unsure what was taken down. I suspect it was his entire MySpace profile, but it could have also been simply his blog or even just some posts. Until a source can be found for that part, we have to be careful how we word things. BTW, the earlier change could either stay or go. From what I see, all the material discussed in the first source is from before his arrest. And since he was denied bond (per that same source), I'm doubtful he was able to continue to edit his website after his arrest. But the source doesn't seem to explicitly confirm it and I'm not sure it matters. Nil Einne ( talk) 07:41, 21 June 2019 (UTC)It's Case's MySpace blog that makes his profile interesting. Before his conviction, he posted what we described in our 2002 profile of Case as "a series of bizarre, Victorian-style letters to an imaginary 'Mr. White.'" It's easy to see his newest blog items as a follow-up. Since launching his MySpace profile in February, he's posted four entries that provide some insights into Case's prison life.