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I changed the article back to the correct, sourced version, following some inane POV-vandalism by an IP editor who called it an "ancient Albanian" city. Comical value aside, there is really nothing else to discuss here (I can only hope not to be faced with the by now usual barrage of tedious WP:LAWYER nitpicking about sources that has become routine in these articles). Athenean ( talk) 05:50, 2 July 2010 (UTC)
clearly...though byllis is one of those cities in the borderlands so it was probably not a 'greek polis' initially either...but both byllis and the illyrian 'bylliones' seem to have had ties with greece at least later 87.202.22.134 ( talk) 10:04, 2 July 2010 (UTC)
megistias as usual botched his citations..jesus 87.202.22.134 ( talk) 10:10, 2 July 2010 (UTC)
It seems that sources have been massively misused so I'll start checking them one by one. Also I'm removing the disruptive edit of Athenean who added the wikiproject Greece.-- — ZjarriRrethues — talk 13:37, 2 July 2010 (UTC)
'It seems that sources have been massively misused so I'll start checking them one by one. Also I'm removing the disruptive edit of Athenean who added the wikiproject Greece' not at all disruptive and the 'misuse' while there isnt exactly as 'massive' as youre implying...there are opinions that consider byllis a greek foundation from the beginning BTW.. 87.202.36.138 ( talk) 17:12, 2 July 2010 (UTC)
Even if you are right (Ilyrian settlement later hellenized) still WikiProject Greece can be added here. Alexikoua ( talk) 18:58, 2 July 2010 (UTC)
(unindent)The 71. IP is Deucalionite who seems to be supporting and helping some users. I don't know how he found out about the article, unless someone contacted him offline and asked for his help.-- — ZjarriRrethues — talk 20:32, 2 July 2010 (UTC)
I'm never sure how many vandalisms one page should have to be able to ask for semi-protection. -- Sulmues Let's talk 20:37, 2 July 2010 (UTC)
lots of good will from everyone i see... 87.202.23.67 ( talk) 21:41, 2 July 2010 (UTC)
It seems that Athenean was trying to add a tag based on a source that doesn't confirm it. [1]-- — ZjarriRrethues — talk 22:02, 2 July 2010 (UTC)
(unindent)Sources verifying the town was located in Illyria: [7] [8]-- — ZjarriRrethues — talk 10:46, 3 July 2010 (UTC) ]
Actually Wilkes says nothing about what you claim, [ [9]]. I've restored the fague geographical term 'Illyria', although as per Wilkes, it was on the borders of Illyria and Epirus.
The WP:GR tag merely denotes that an article falls within the scope of the wikiproject. Since Byllis is an ancient Greek city, it easily meets this criterion. *Any* Greek topic, whether it is a city founded by Greeks, inhabited by Greeks, formerly inhabited by Greeks, whatever, fall within the scope of WP:GR. Nor is WP:GR mutually exclusive with WP:Greece and Rome: The two wikiprojects will necessarily overlap on ancient Greek topics, it's only exclusively Roman topics that fall outside of WP:GR and post-antiquity topics that fall outside of WP:Greece and Rome. I can't understand why some people are incredibly bothered by the WP:GR tag. I don't see Spanish users removing WP:GR from Empuries, Italian users removing WP:GR from Syracuse, or even Turkish users removing WP:GR from Trabzon. This nationalist hysteria is detrimental to wikipedia and needs to stop. Athenean ( talk) 22:25, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
Trapezus was founded in 756 BC during the first era of colonizations . Byllis already existed but was developed during the 4th and 3rd century BC in a polis-like structure(agora, theater etc.).-- — ZjarriRrethues — talk 23:51, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
[ [12]]. Copying:
(unindent)As a 4th source [14]
The recent versions after the latest edits by 87.* IP are satisfactory. Yes, "polis" implies Greek cultural traits, but it certainly doesn't imply exclusively Greek ethnic character, so just because one source calls it a polis doesn't mean we have to monopolize its description with Greek attributes. Duh. As for the tags, you all know my ceterum censeo: tabulas proiectorum esse delendas, all of them. I cannot express here what I think about people who edit war about project tags, on both sides of this issue. Fut.Perf. ☼ 06:05, 7 July 2010 (UTC)
The page is semiprotected now so I guess the IP editor might not be able to explain this edit, but I'm directing my question to the confirmed editors: could you please reference this sentence? -- Sulmues Let's talk 12:26, 7 July 2010 (UTC)
thanks for the unprotection guys, future...i wrote 'erroneously' because stephanus (ethnica) calls it a 'parathalassia' ('seaside' - polis Illyridos parathalassia 'seaside city of Illyria') city but this is wrong since byllis has been identified with an inland area.. 87.202.54.152 ( talk) 21:28, 7 July 2010 (UTC)
are you KIDDING man..?? the 'deucalionite' guy is the other ip that future perfect reverts i think thats who you have in mind do you think youve been talking to 'deucalionite' in all these articles..?? as for byllis its a site on a hill very far from the sea and not that close to the aoos either unless you have information that shows this to be wrong or that sailing was done from the adriatic along the aoos to byllis..in fact hatzopoulos agrees about stephanus being wrong about the 'seaside' part..im not married to it if you find it to be wrong according to other information go ahead 87.202.53.82 ( talk) 23:57, 7 July 2010 (UTC)
'stephanus of byzantium mentions byllis as a "seaside" city of Illyria but excavations have brought it to light a distance of about 25km from the sea' translation from the greek 87.202.53.82 ( talk) 13:48, 8 July 2010 (UTC)e
I am somewhat bothered by the excessive use of "commonwealth" instead of "koinon", e.g. here [15] in an article about a topic of classical antiquity. It seems a little anachronistic and odd. I propose that "koinon" be used throughout, with "commonwealth" appearing once in parentheses. After all, the Bylliones were Hellenized, not Anglicized, and this is a topic of antiquity, not the contemporary history. Athenean ( talk) 21:13, 8 July 2010 (UTC)
What historians? Historians use "koinon" [18] for obvious reasons. I'm going to wait a day or so to see if anyone neutral has something to say, otherwise we go with "koinon". Athenean ( talk) 00:04, 9 July 2010 (UTC)
Silliness. Rabid silliness, on both sides. For the record: I don't care which word gets used. Fut.Perf. ☼ 14:14, 9 July 2010 (UTC)
'Besides, Byllis wasn't even a Greek city, it was an Illyrian city described by Greek authors' why do you keep insisting even after i showed you what hammonds (among others) opinion is..? 87.202.37.216 ( talk) 14:39, 9 July 2010 (UTC)
By the way, mainstream translation for the term 'Koinon' is 'League' not Commonwealth. Alexikoua ( talk) 17:01, 9 July 2010 (UTC)
I've added a -dubious- tag about the recent findings [ [19]]. So far I coulnd't confirm the source with an academic reference. Alexikoua ( talk) 08:53, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
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![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
I changed the article back to the correct, sourced version, following some inane POV-vandalism by an IP editor who called it an "ancient Albanian" city. Comical value aside, there is really nothing else to discuss here (I can only hope not to be faced with the by now usual barrage of tedious WP:LAWYER nitpicking about sources that has become routine in these articles). Athenean ( talk) 05:50, 2 July 2010 (UTC)
clearly...though byllis is one of those cities in the borderlands so it was probably not a 'greek polis' initially either...but both byllis and the illyrian 'bylliones' seem to have had ties with greece at least later 87.202.22.134 ( talk) 10:04, 2 July 2010 (UTC)
megistias as usual botched his citations..jesus 87.202.22.134 ( talk) 10:10, 2 July 2010 (UTC)
It seems that sources have been massively misused so I'll start checking them one by one. Also I'm removing the disruptive edit of Athenean who added the wikiproject Greece.-- — ZjarriRrethues — talk 13:37, 2 July 2010 (UTC)
'It seems that sources have been massively misused so I'll start checking them one by one. Also I'm removing the disruptive edit of Athenean who added the wikiproject Greece' not at all disruptive and the 'misuse' while there isnt exactly as 'massive' as youre implying...there are opinions that consider byllis a greek foundation from the beginning BTW.. 87.202.36.138 ( talk) 17:12, 2 July 2010 (UTC)
Even if you are right (Ilyrian settlement later hellenized) still WikiProject Greece can be added here. Alexikoua ( talk) 18:58, 2 July 2010 (UTC)
(unindent)The 71. IP is Deucalionite who seems to be supporting and helping some users. I don't know how he found out about the article, unless someone contacted him offline and asked for his help.-- — ZjarriRrethues — talk 20:32, 2 July 2010 (UTC)
I'm never sure how many vandalisms one page should have to be able to ask for semi-protection. -- Sulmues Let's talk 20:37, 2 July 2010 (UTC)
lots of good will from everyone i see... 87.202.23.67 ( talk) 21:41, 2 July 2010 (UTC)
It seems that Athenean was trying to add a tag based on a source that doesn't confirm it. [1]-- — ZjarriRrethues — talk 22:02, 2 July 2010 (UTC)
(unindent)Sources verifying the town was located in Illyria: [7] [8]-- — ZjarriRrethues — talk 10:46, 3 July 2010 (UTC) ]
Actually Wilkes says nothing about what you claim, [ [9]]. I've restored the fague geographical term 'Illyria', although as per Wilkes, it was on the borders of Illyria and Epirus.
The WP:GR tag merely denotes that an article falls within the scope of the wikiproject. Since Byllis is an ancient Greek city, it easily meets this criterion. *Any* Greek topic, whether it is a city founded by Greeks, inhabited by Greeks, formerly inhabited by Greeks, whatever, fall within the scope of WP:GR. Nor is WP:GR mutually exclusive with WP:Greece and Rome: The two wikiprojects will necessarily overlap on ancient Greek topics, it's only exclusively Roman topics that fall outside of WP:GR and post-antiquity topics that fall outside of WP:Greece and Rome. I can't understand why some people are incredibly bothered by the WP:GR tag. I don't see Spanish users removing WP:GR from Empuries, Italian users removing WP:GR from Syracuse, or even Turkish users removing WP:GR from Trabzon. This nationalist hysteria is detrimental to wikipedia and needs to stop. Athenean ( talk) 22:25, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
Trapezus was founded in 756 BC during the first era of colonizations . Byllis already existed but was developed during the 4th and 3rd century BC in a polis-like structure(agora, theater etc.).-- — ZjarriRrethues — talk 23:51, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
[ [12]]. Copying:
(unindent)As a 4th source [14]
The recent versions after the latest edits by 87.* IP are satisfactory. Yes, "polis" implies Greek cultural traits, but it certainly doesn't imply exclusively Greek ethnic character, so just because one source calls it a polis doesn't mean we have to monopolize its description with Greek attributes. Duh. As for the tags, you all know my ceterum censeo: tabulas proiectorum esse delendas, all of them. I cannot express here what I think about people who edit war about project tags, on both sides of this issue. Fut.Perf. ☼ 06:05, 7 July 2010 (UTC)
The page is semiprotected now so I guess the IP editor might not be able to explain this edit, but I'm directing my question to the confirmed editors: could you please reference this sentence? -- Sulmues Let's talk 12:26, 7 July 2010 (UTC)
thanks for the unprotection guys, future...i wrote 'erroneously' because stephanus (ethnica) calls it a 'parathalassia' ('seaside' - polis Illyridos parathalassia 'seaside city of Illyria') city but this is wrong since byllis has been identified with an inland area.. 87.202.54.152 ( talk) 21:28, 7 July 2010 (UTC)
are you KIDDING man..?? the 'deucalionite' guy is the other ip that future perfect reverts i think thats who you have in mind do you think youve been talking to 'deucalionite' in all these articles..?? as for byllis its a site on a hill very far from the sea and not that close to the aoos either unless you have information that shows this to be wrong or that sailing was done from the adriatic along the aoos to byllis..in fact hatzopoulos agrees about stephanus being wrong about the 'seaside' part..im not married to it if you find it to be wrong according to other information go ahead 87.202.53.82 ( talk) 23:57, 7 July 2010 (UTC)
'stephanus of byzantium mentions byllis as a "seaside" city of Illyria but excavations have brought it to light a distance of about 25km from the sea' translation from the greek 87.202.53.82 ( talk) 13:48, 8 July 2010 (UTC)e
I am somewhat bothered by the excessive use of "commonwealth" instead of "koinon", e.g. here [15] in an article about a topic of classical antiquity. It seems a little anachronistic and odd. I propose that "koinon" be used throughout, with "commonwealth" appearing once in parentheses. After all, the Bylliones were Hellenized, not Anglicized, and this is a topic of antiquity, not the contemporary history. Athenean ( talk) 21:13, 8 July 2010 (UTC)
What historians? Historians use "koinon" [18] for obvious reasons. I'm going to wait a day or so to see if anyone neutral has something to say, otherwise we go with "koinon". Athenean ( talk) 00:04, 9 July 2010 (UTC)
Silliness. Rabid silliness, on both sides. For the record: I don't care which word gets used. Fut.Perf. ☼ 14:14, 9 July 2010 (UTC)
'Besides, Byllis wasn't even a Greek city, it was an Illyrian city described by Greek authors' why do you keep insisting even after i showed you what hammonds (among others) opinion is..? 87.202.37.216 ( talk) 14:39, 9 July 2010 (UTC)
By the way, mainstream translation for the term 'Koinon' is 'League' not Commonwealth. Alexikoua ( talk) 17:01, 9 July 2010 (UTC)
I've added a -dubious- tag about the recent findings [ [19]]. So far I coulnd't confirm the source with an academic reference. Alexikoua ( talk) 08:53, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 00:17, 24 December 2017 (UTC)