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The first statement in this article is enclosed in quotes, yet no reference to the source is given. I am not certain that the definition provided is considered a standard or even common understanding of the term 'business architecture' so I'd love to know where it came from. -- Nickmalik ( talk) 15:49, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
nmc ( talk) 15:16, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
nmc ( talk) 20:54, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
There is an entire topic on EA frameworks. The section on TOGAF can be largely removed or moved to that page. There are no claims that TOGAF specifically adds to the understanding of business architecture. A smaller paragraph that indicates that business architecture is a recognized part of architectural frameworks, including Zachman and TOGAF, would be sufficient. Otherwise, this section is off topic. -- Nickmalik ( talk) 16:06, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
As there appears to be no objection, I will radically reduce the section on business architecture that references TOGAF. -- Nickmalik ( talk) 16:22, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
nmc ( talk) 15:05, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
The restructuring of the article improves it. Kudos to N McWhorter (assuming this is Neil McWhorter, a well known enterprise architect). Question: does SOMF belong in this list?-- Nickmalik ( talk) 06:27, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
nmc ( talk) 15:08, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
Given the fact that the Federal Enterprise Architecture framework covers the metrics and services aspects of business architecture (but doesn't cover business process), it could be debated that FEA is, at least partially, a Business Architecture framework. Should the FEA be mentioned in the section on Frameworks, alongside eTOM/NGOSS?-- Nickmalik ( talk) 15:52, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
The view that Business Architecture is a part of Enterprise Architecture is only one view of the world. This viewpoint has been actively attacked as foreign to the core constituency of Business Architecture whose practitioners seem to predominately take the view that EA is an IT-centric terminology that has nebulous meaning in the marketplace. Because of this it isn't appropriate to assert this viewpoint in the introduction. nmc ( talk) 17:18, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
Core to the business architecture definition is the concept of business capabilities and how these map to the business vision and strategic goals. This focuses the conversation on the business level rather than IT implementation. Hopefully someone can come up with a definition with this focus in mind. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.61.85.100 ( talk) 21:03, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
The second and third sections of the article have no citations to any published works. While I believe that the content is correct, and quite well put together, to meet the standards of wikipedia requires citations from published works. In each section, each statement of fact needs to be based on a notable set of material.
I'll be happy to remove the tags if we can bring up the citations. -- Nickmalik ( talk) 05:26, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
This section opens up with 'Business Architecture is directly based on business strategy' this statement is not true. Business architecture shows the impact of strategic decisions as well as the impacts of decisions that were not based on a strategic directions. This section also seems to imply that strategy is part of the business architecture, which many would disagree. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gsuddreth ( talk • contribs) 23:50, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
The link to a "Business Capability Architecture" is from a completely unreliable source. Posting on an open wiki of OMG BAWG does not create validity. If OMG or another respected industry source were to adopt that model then it would be worthy of being noted Otherwise serves no purpose other than to advertise for a business architecture society 98.215.93.163 ( talk) 04:29, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
Can anyone explain the reference in brackets, "(figure 1: Strategy embedding)" towards the end of the first paragraph in this section ? It appears to be a reference to a figure which isn't there... Eliot Flack-Hill ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 12:29, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
I am proposing to remove the Business Strategy section. It is full of statements that are not referenced anywhere. While I agree with most of them, and potentially could find some references in BIZBOK or elsewhere, this section makes the overall article UNBALANCED. Nickmalik provided short description of the views of the organization in the preceding paragraph. In my opinion they are sufficient for this page. The choice is to either provide elaborate description for all of the views here or remove the Business Strategy section. I will remove it unless I hear strong opposition combined with authoritative references. Voywiki ( talk) 21:00, 9 January 2015 (UTC)
I have undone the last five edits by User:Johankok, because.
His edits deleted a just Wikified article, with several links. It seems to me he only rephrased the intro, using his own works, with the result that it doesn't link to any other wikipedia article any more. That is not my idea of progress.
-- Marcel Douwe Dekker ( talk) 22:22, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
I have undone the NIH IT Model edits , because.
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.34.246.72 ( talk) 14:32, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
I agree with most of what you have said here Marcel. Somewhere along the 100+ versions, we have completely losty the definition of business architecture. To follow up on a statement of your's, you point out that you just can't remove images, you just can't add them as well. I read no discussion about adding the image before it was added. One of the objects of groups such as OMG's Business Architecture working group (BAWG), the Business Architecture Community and Business Architecture Institute is to try to create clarity between Business Architecture and Enterprise Architecture and show that Business Architecture is not something originated by IT or an IT framework, but the relationship Business Architecture has. Gsuddreth ( talk) 15:40, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
For the two defintions you mention, in the first Business Architecture is not being used as an alternate term/definition for EA. It is being used as a something that is distinctly different from enterprise architecture, but has a strong relationship. I do agree that the second definition/perspective exists as well. There is an excellent discussion on this topic here [7]
I see you used an image Tom Graves posted on his blog site. The following blog entry accompanies the picture: "By contrast, the image above is from their ‘Snapshot on Business Architecture‘ white-paper, which shows they’ve at last realised that ‘business engineering’ (for which read ‘human-based processes’) need to be addressed separately yet in parallel with the IT-based processes. From my view, this is still a long way from complete - it needs the machine-based dimension as well, and a lot more clarity than just dumping everything below architecture into ‘Physical World’. But the fact that this does cover a broader scope than just IT is an important step"
I fully support restructuring the article to include to account for the various perspectives that currently exist in the industry as well as the various framework pictures that exist, until a more definitive definition and framework emerges. Gsuddreth ( talk) 04:10, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
Partly this is an issue around there being no single diagram that can adequately cover this, primarily because there are several frameworks that cover this. I would agree that you cannot adequately define business architecture, without referencing other aspects of an enterprise's scheme of organisation - i.e. with strategy (incl. goals & objectives) at the top - then business architecture - then architectures relating a number of other disciplines that roll out from the business architecture and that enable the business architecture. This suggests something along a pyramid line (I'll source an image for this). After that, it may be useful to illustrate some of the standard framework constructs, like Zachman, POLDAT, and Business Motivation Model. I would humbly profer the view that the way that the health service views business architecture should not be put in a position where it might appear to be a standard model, even though it is a useful contruct and does summarise the key elements. Greyskinnedboy ( talk) 21:46, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
I agree we should find a better first image in combination with with improving the article, and maybe even more important, giving some good definitions. After reading some of the initial discussions on the linkedin Business Architecture Community from half a year ago, I am not so sure anymore Business Architecture is an alternative term for enterprise architecture, to capture the whole. It seems Business Architecture is still beeing described as subset of Enterprise Architecture.
Now I am also not so sure the Zachman Framework of Zachman framework or Business Motivation Model could be an alternative here. I did realize business architecture as subset of enterprise archicture is first defined in the 1989 NIST Enterprise Architecture Model, see image. This is a standard model as well used very often in the 1990s to develop the first US federal enterprise architectural frameworks.
Maybe this image can be an alternative. I does off course needs a better caption to explain. -- Marcel Douwe Dekker ( talk) 22:58, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
I am editing the page to remove the unattributed reference to marketing and branding architecture. While there is possible a relationship between business architecture and the concept of branding architecture, it would not be recognized as a formal relationship by any business architecture models that I've seen, and no citation is provided to demonstrate that this is not original research. Also, removing references to CAEAP which has not established the level of notability required to meet Wikipedia standards. (I am a member of CAEAP but I do not believe it has met the notability requirements). Nickmalik ( talk) 07:35, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
While editing out the CAEAP reference, I noticed references to two more very young attempts at creating professional associations for business architecture. While both efforts are worthy of encouragement, Wikipedia is not a medium for advertisement. Neither of the associations meet the criteria for notability, and neither of their sites offer content that should be referenced by a Wikipedia reader. (One has a single chapter and boasts 300 members. The other has no chapters and names five members, at least one of which is a member of the Business Architecture Working Group of the OMG.) It is clear that the only notable organizations, at this point, are the public standards bodies that have published standards that apply to business architecture. When one or both of these organizations reach the level of notability required by Wikipedia, they can be added back in. Nickmalik ( talk) 07:51, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
CAEAP is an advocacy organization which does not have membership in the traditional sense. It relies on volunteers. The CAEAP footprint is, like most advocacy groups, much larger than similar sized organizations and includes working with many of the CIO groups in the Federal and State level organizations, a number of prominant universities, with the DOD and Federal Chief Architects council, and the Open Group. At this point CAEAP has not made any public statements relative to business architecture. They have talked with the leadership of the IASA, OMG, BAA and DAMA to understand how the plethora of archtecture groups effect the public. CAEAP is concerned that the schism within the business architects associations has had a detrimental effect on the public perception of enterprise and business architecture. It has confused the public rather than offered any unifying vision. The Wikipedia definition here does not dispel this confusion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mgoetsh9 ( talk • contribs) 14:54, 1 October 2010 (UTC)
In the last few days, substantial edits took place. Most were acceptable. However, there were a number of edits that are outside Wikipedia guidelines which I reverted. a) The definition of business architecture is cited from a source. Reverted an edit that changed the definition away from what the source cited it to be. b) the list of views comes from the source listed. Editorial content had been placed in the middle of the list challenging some of the views as "not being part of business architecture." That is interesting, but not from a cited source, and therefore it is original research. Removed c) Removed editorial content in the later section on XML d) removed the citatation of CAEAP (same reason as cited in prior discussion post... not notable). Nickmalik ( talk) 18:26, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
The OMG framework described on this page is out of date. As of today's date, the version on the OMG website involves five viewpoints, which it calls views. "The key views of the enterprise within the business architecture are: 1) the Business Strategy view, 2) the Business Capabilities view, 3) the Value Stream view, 4) the Business Knowledge view, and 5) the Organizational view." In my opinion, for what it's worth, the main omission from this framework is the Cybernetic View, which covers feedback loops and governance. I have discussed this at length on my blog. RichardVeryard ( talk) 08:49, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
Richard Veryard noted that the list of views may have been out of date and a recent series of changes modified the material away from the referenced source. So I reacquired the source material from the OMG and re-asserted it into the section listing the views of business architecture. Nickmalik ( talk) 22:05, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
This section refers to modeling framework. This reference would be more appropriate to associate with the software development topic, rather than with business architecture. Voywiki ( talk) 20:18, 2 January 2015 (UTC)
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The first statement in this article is enclosed in quotes, yet no reference to the source is given. I am not certain that the definition provided is considered a standard or even common understanding of the term 'business architecture' so I'd love to know where it came from. -- Nickmalik ( talk) 15:49, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
nmc ( talk) 15:16, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
nmc ( talk) 20:54, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
There is an entire topic on EA frameworks. The section on TOGAF can be largely removed or moved to that page. There are no claims that TOGAF specifically adds to the understanding of business architecture. A smaller paragraph that indicates that business architecture is a recognized part of architectural frameworks, including Zachman and TOGAF, would be sufficient. Otherwise, this section is off topic. -- Nickmalik ( talk) 16:06, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
As there appears to be no objection, I will radically reduce the section on business architecture that references TOGAF. -- Nickmalik ( talk) 16:22, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
nmc ( talk) 15:05, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
The restructuring of the article improves it. Kudos to N McWhorter (assuming this is Neil McWhorter, a well known enterprise architect). Question: does SOMF belong in this list?-- Nickmalik ( talk) 06:27, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
nmc ( talk) 15:08, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
Given the fact that the Federal Enterprise Architecture framework covers the metrics and services aspects of business architecture (but doesn't cover business process), it could be debated that FEA is, at least partially, a Business Architecture framework. Should the FEA be mentioned in the section on Frameworks, alongside eTOM/NGOSS?-- Nickmalik ( talk) 15:52, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
The view that Business Architecture is a part of Enterprise Architecture is only one view of the world. This viewpoint has been actively attacked as foreign to the core constituency of Business Architecture whose practitioners seem to predominately take the view that EA is an IT-centric terminology that has nebulous meaning in the marketplace. Because of this it isn't appropriate to assert this viewpoint in the introduction. nmc ( talk) 17:18, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
Core to the business architecture definition is the concept of business capabilities and how these map to the business vision and strategic goals. This focuses the conversation on the business level rather than IT implementation. Hopefully someone can come up with a definition with this focus in mind. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.61.85.100 ( talk) 21:03, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
The second and third sections of the article have no citations to any published works. While I believe that the content is correct, and quite well put together, to meet the standards of wikipedia requires citations from published works. In each section, each statement of fact needs to be based on a notable set of material.
I'll be happy to remove the tags if we can bring up the citations. -- Nickmalik ( talk) 05:26, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
This section opens up with 'Business Architecture is directly based on business strategy' this statement is not true. Business architecture shows the impact of strategic decisions as well as the impacts of decisions that were not based on a strategic directions. This section also seems to imply that strategy is part of the business architecture, which many would disagree. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gsuddreth ( talk • contribs) 23:50, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
The link to a "Business Capability Architecture" is from a completely unreliable source. Posting on an open wiki of OMG BAWG does not create validity. If OMG or another respected industry source were to adopt that model then it would be worthy of being noted Otherwise serves no purpose other than to advertise for a business architecture society 98.215.93.163 ( talk) 04:29, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
Can anyone explain the reference in brackets, "(figure 1: Strategy embedding)" towards the end of the first paragraph in this section ? It appears to be a reference to a figure which isn't there... Eliot Flack-Hill ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 12:29, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
I am proposing to remove the Business Strategy section. It is full of statements that are not referenced anywhere. While I agree with most of them, and potentially could find some references in BIZBOK or elsewhere, this section makes the overall article UNBALANCED. Nickmalik provided short description of the views of the organization in the preceding paragraph. In my opinion they are sufficient for this page. The choice is to either provide elaborate description for all of the views here or remove the Business Strategy section. I will remove it unless I hear strong opposition combined with authoritative references. Voywiki ( talk) 21:00, 9 January 2015 (UTC)
I have undone the last five edits by User:Johankok, because.
His edits deleted a just Wikified article, with several links. It seems to me he only rephrased the intro, using his own works, with the result that it doesn't link to any other wikipedia article any more. That is not my idea of progress.
-- Marcel Douwe Dekker ( talk) 22:22, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
I have undone the NIH IT Model edits , because.
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.34.246.72 ( talk) 14:32, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
I agree with most of what you have said here Marcel. Somewhere along the 100+ versions, we have completely losty the definition of business architecture. To follow up on a statement of your's, you point out that you just can't remove images, you just can't add them as well. I read no discussion about adding the image before it was added. One of the objects of groups such as OMG's Business Architecture working group (BAWG), the Business Architecture Community and Business Architecture Institute is to try to create clarity between Business Architecture and Enterprise Architecture and show that Business Architecture is not something originated by IT or an IT framework, but the relationship Business Architecture has. Gsuddreth ( talk) 15:40, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
For the two defintions you mention, in the first Business Architecture is not being used as an alternate term/definition for EA. It is being used as a something that is distinctly different from enterprise architecture, but has a strong relationship. I do agree that the second definition/perspective exists as well. There is an excellent discussion on this topic here [7]
I see you used an image Tom Graves posted on his blog site. The following blog entry accompanies the picture: "By contrast, the image above is from their ‘Snapshot on Business Architecture‘ white-paper, which shows they’ve at last realised that ‘business engineering’ (for which read ‘human-based processes’) need to be addressed separately yet in parallel with the IT-based processes. From my view, this is still a long way from complete - it needs the machine-based dimension as well, and a lot more clarity than just dumping everything below architecture into ‘Physical World’. But the fact that this does cover a broader scope than just IT is an important step"
I fully support restructuring the article to include to account for the various perspectives that currently exist in the industry as well as the various framework pictures that exist, until a more definitive definition and framework emerges. Gsuddreth ( talk) 04:10, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
Partly this is an issue around there being no single diagram that can adequately cover this, primarily because there are several frameworks that cover this. I would agree that you cannot adequately define business architecture, without referencing other aspects of an enterprise's scheme of organisation - i.e. with strategy (incl. goals & objectives) at the top - then business architecture - then architectures relating a number of other disciplines that roll out from the business architecture and that enable the business architecture. This suggests something along a pyramid line (I'll source an image for this). After that, it may be useful to illustrate some of the standard framework constructs, like Zachman, POLDAT, and Business Motivation Model. I would humbly profer the view that the way that the health service views business architecture should not be put in a position where it might appear to be a standard model, even though it is a useful contruct and does summarise the key elements. Greyskinnedboy ( talk) 21:46, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
I agree we should find a better first image in combination with with improving the article, and maybe even more important, giving some good definitions. After reading some of the initial discussions on the linkedin Business Architecture Community from half a year ago, I am not so sure anymore Business Architecture is an alternative term for enterprise architecture, to capture the whole. It seems Business Architecture is still beeing described as subset of Enterprise Architecture.
Now I am also not so sure the Zachman Framework of Zachman framework or Business Motivation Model could be an alternative here. I did realize business architecture as subset of enterprise archicture is first defined in the 1989 NIST Enterprise Architecture Model, see image. This is a standard model as well used very often in the 1990s to develop the first US federal enterprise architectural frameworks.
Maybe this image can be an alternative. I does off course needs a better caption to explain. -- Marcel Douwe Dekker ( talk) 22:58, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
I am editing the page to remove the unattributed reference to marketing and branding architecture. While there is possible a relationship between business architecture and the concept of branding architecture, it would not be recognized as a formal relationship by any business architecture models that I've seen, and no citation is provided to demonstrate that this is not original research. Also, removing references to CAEAP which has not established the level of notability required to meet Wikipedia standards. (I am a member of CAEAP but I do not believe it has met the notability requirements). Nickmalik ( talk) 07:35, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
While editing out the CAEAP reference, I noticed references to two more very young attempts at creating professional associations for business architecture. While both efforts are worthy of encouragement, Wikipedia is not a medium for advertisement. Neither of the associations meet the criteria for notability, and neither of their sites offer content that should be referenced by a Wikipedia reader. (One has a single chapter and boasts 300 members. The other has no chapters and names five members, at least one of which is a member of the Business Architecture Working Group of the OMG.) It is clear that the only notable organizations, at this point, are the public standards bodies that have published standards that apply to business architecture. When one or both of these organizations reach the level of notability required by Wikipedia, they can be added back in. Nickmalik ( talk) 07:51, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
CAEAP is an advocacy organization which does not have membership in the traditional sense. It relies on volunteers. The CAEAP footprint is, like most advocacy groups, much larger than similar sized organizations and includes working with many of the CIO groups in the Federal and State level organizations, a number of prominant universities, with the DOD and Federal Chief Architects council, and the Open Group. At this point CAEAP has not made any public statements relative to business architecture. They have talked with the leadership of the IASA, OMG, BAA and DAMA to understand how the plethora of archtecture groups effect the public. CAEAP is concerned that the schism within the business architects associations has had a detrimental effect on the public perception of enterprise and business architecture. It has confused the public rather than offered any unifying vision. The Wikipedia definition here does not dispel this confusion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mgoetsh9 ( talk • contribs) 14:54, 1 October 2010 (UTC)
In the last few days, substantial edits took place. Most were acceptable. However, there were a number of edits that are outside Wikipedia guidelines which I reverted. a) The definition of business architecture is cited from a source. Reverted an edit that changed the definition away from what the source cited it to be. b) the list of views comes from the source listed. Editorial content had been placed in the middle of the list challenging some of the views as "not being part of business architecture." That is interesting, but not from a cited source, and therefore it is original research. Removed c) Removed editorial content in the later section on XML d) removed the citatation of CAEAP (same reason as cited in prior discussion post... not notable). Nickmalik ( talk) 18:26, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
The OMG framework described on this page is out of date. As of today's date, the version on the OMG website involves five viewpoints, which it calls views. "The key views of the enterprise within the business architecture are: 1) the Business Strategy view, 2) the Business Capabilities view, 3) the Value Stream view, 4) the Business Knowledge view, and 5) the Organizational view." In my opinion, for what it's worth, the main omission from this framework is the Cybernetic View, which covers feedback loops and governance. I have discussed this at length on my blog. RichardVeryard ( talk) 08:49, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
Richard Veryard noted that the list of views may have been out of date and a recent series of changes modified the material away from the referenced source. So I reacquired the source material from the OMG and re-asserted it into the section listing the views of business architecture. Nickmalik ( talk) 22:05, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
This section refers to modeling framework. This reference would be more appropriate to associate with the software development topic, rather than with business architecture. Voywiki ( talk) 20:18, 2 January 2015 (UTC)
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