I cannot yet recommend
Burundi for GA status for the following reasons:
General
The article moves between British and American spellings. Please make the spelling of English words consistent with either American or British spelling, depending upon the subject of the article, such as: neighbor (A) (British: neighbour); favorite (A) (British: favourite); meter (A) (British: metre); pretense (A) (British: pretence); ization (A) (British: isation); analyze (A) (British: analyse).
Not done There are still instances where the UK spellings are used (like neighbour) when US spellings are used (like program), and I'm pretty sure that "World Food Programme" uses the UK spelling no matter what -
epicAdam (
talk)
02:05, 24 July 2008 (UTC)reply
Could we stick to U.S. English? I significantly researched rewrote this article in American English. I nominated this for GA. I knew this was going to be placed on hold, and I would make the changes. However, bsrboy your changes are doing more harm than good with this article, and I would kindly ask you to stop doing so, because that would mean I would have more work to do. Thanks. miranda12:41, 24 July 2008 (UTC)reply
Copyright: The coat of arms of Burundi does not appear to have a valid copyright. The supposed "author" of the work cannot legally release it into the public domain. Further, a previous version of the file had been deleted from Wikimedia Commons due to copyright violation. You may want to re-upload the file for use only on Wikimedia and provide a fair-use rationale.
I am e-mailing the embassy where the logo is taken from, and I will forward that to OTRS. Also, I have begun a discussion
here. miranda02:30, 22 July 2008 (UTC)reply
Non sequitur: "Predominately a Christian nation, Burundi's residents enjoy football as a favorite sport." How does playing football have anything to do with Christianity? Wikilink football so that it is not confused with American football.
Vague: "and provided the country's first language." Surely the land was occupied sometime between 70,000BC and 3,000BC, and that those people had some variation of language?
Shouldn't this be in the next section about European takeover?
Used this as a transition for the next section. There were some grammar errors as well, and I have fixed those as well. miranda18:55, 22 July 2008 (UTC)reply
Vague: "European influences caused major cultural differences within Burundi's formation." Wasn't Burundi already formed? What cultural differences? Source(s)?
Explain: "Chiefdoms were in charge of land (pays)" What are pays?
Done Deleted pays. They were in my notes and in the author's words. I was going to look it up, but alas did not have the time. miranda19:44, 22 July 2008 (UTC)reply
Source: "Allowing factions to occur in Burundi would be one of the main influences for Burundi's independence from Europe."
Explain: "During Burundi's fight for independence, unstableness in the Burundi-Rwanda region grew." What? The fight for independence hasn't even been mentioned yet in the article!
Done clarified During Burundi's push towards being an independent nation, unstableness in the Burundi-Rwanda region grew between the Hutu and Tutsi tribes.miranda15:49, 24 July 2008 (UTC)reply
Explain: "In November 1959, a revolt occurred in Rwanda with Hutu teachers." What kind of revolt? Over what?
This is an example of the ethnic clashes b/n Hutus and Tutsis over occupation. During Burundi's fight for independence, unstableness in the Burundi-Rwanda region grew. As a result, ethnic persecution occurred between Hutus and Tutsis. For example, in November 1959, a revolt erupted in Rwanda between Hutu teachers and Tutsi soldiers over land possession.miranda15:36, 24 July 2008 (UTC)reply
Revise: "The Union for National Progress (UPRONA), a multi-ethnic party led by Tutsi Prince Louis Rwagasore and the Christian Democratic Party (PDC) was formed. Following an UPRONA victory in legislative elections, Prince Rwagasore was assassinated in 1961.[8] Ruanda-Urundi was changed to Burundi in 1962.[13] The country claimed independence in the same year on July 1.[8] King Mwambutsa IV was named the first ruler.[12]"
DoneThe Union for National Progress (UPRONA), a multi-ethnic party led by Tutsi Prince
Louis Rwagasore and Christian Democratic Party (PDC) members, became popular throughout Burundi. Following an UPRONA victory in legislative elections, Prince Rwagasore was assassinated in 1961 by a
Greek national named Georges Kageorgis. The country claimed independence in
July 1,
1962, thus legally changing names from Ruanda-Urundi to Burundi.miranda15:27, 24 July 2008 (UTC)reply
Prose here is just awful. Tighten up to improve flow.
Explain: "During Mwambutsta's reign, ethnic violence occurred throughout the region, and the Hutus escaped to Rwanda to avoid persecution." Who and when?
Explain: "This revolution by the Hutus lasted from 1959 to 1962." What revolution? It hasn't even been mentioned before!
DoneDuring Mwambutsa's reign, ethnic violence occurred throughout the region, and from 1959 to 1962 the Hutus escaped to Rwanda to avoid persecution.miranda06:17, 27 July 2008 (UTC)reply
Revise: "In Rwanda, the Hutus murdered thousands of Tutsis, causing them to flee to Burundi While in Burundi, retaliation occurred. Many Tutsi soldiers killed Hutu peasants."
Done In Rwanda, the Hutus murdered thousands of Tutsis, causing the Tutsis to flee to Burundi for freedom. While in Burundi, Tutsis fought against the Hutus. Many Tutsi soldiers killed Hutu peasants in retaliation for Hutu violence in Rwanda. miranda15:27, 24 July 2008 (UTC)reply
Revise: "As a result, an estimated quarter of a million people perished for almost thirty years." "for" -> "over"?
DoneAs a result, an estimated 250,000 people perished for over thirty years.miranda
Revise: "The transitional government was placed on trial for five years, until 2005" You mean, in court? Or or a trial basis?
Explain: "PALIPEHUTU-National Liberation Forces" Who are these guys? They're not mentioned before.
DoneAs of 2008, the Burundian government is talking with the Hutu-led Palipehutu-National Liberation Forces (NLF). miranda06:17, 27 July 2008 (UTC)reply
Overall: So is Burundi at peace or not? The information seems vague as there are elections and unity government yet the article also says that there are ethnic tensions and what looks to be an ongoing civil conflict.
Explain: "In 1992, Tutsi coup leader Pierre Buyoya established a system, where more parties could be involved with the political process instead of a single party." How so? Did he establish the 1992 constitution?
DoneIn 1992, Tutsi coup leader Pierre Buyoya established a constitution,[30] which provided for a multi-party political process.[31]miranda16:57, 3 August 2008 (UTC)reply
Explain: "Six years later on June 6, 1998, the constitution was ratified to include ramifications" What ramifications? Ramifications means "effects"... not sure it's the right word here.
Disambig: "2,638 collines (hills)" I don't think the wikilink for "hills" is meant to link to the geographic feature, is it? If so, it doesn't need to be wikilinked.
Comment: The region's political system is unstable. Currently doing research for more facts to explain the region's politics, as they are quite complicated. miranda19:47, 24 July 2008 (UTC)reply
Geography
MoS: Makes sure there are non-breaking spaces here: "(8809 ft/2685 m)"
Revise: "arguably makes the Burundi the poorest country on the planet." It's not arguable. Burundi either is the poorest country on the planet, or it isn't.
DoneDue to economic conditions in the country, landlocked geography, and lack of resources, makes the Burundi one of the poorest countries on the planet.miranda20:02, 22 July 2008 (UTC)reply
Revise and source: "Coffee is the nation's biggest revenue earner with 78% of all exported goods."
Explain: "However, The Anglican Church of Burundi[44] claims over 10% of the population as members and recent reports indicate the Christian population may be as high as 90% with most of the remainder being Muslim."
This information contradicts what was said in the previous sentence. Why providing both figures? Why the discrepancy?
DoneThe Anglican Church of Burundi claims over 10% of the population as members. This was a run on sentence, and has been fixed. miranda19:49, 22 July 2008 (UTC)reply
Culture
Move: "Most Burundians live in rural areas, since six percent of the population live in urban areas." This belongs in demographics.
Revise: "When several Burundians of close acquaintance meet for a gathering, impeke is a beer that is drank from a large container — each person receives a straw."
Explain: "Many types of literary genre exist, such as imigani, indirimbo, amazina, and ivyivugo."
Ties into the literary/oral tradition. Fixed with Imigani, indirimbo, amazina, and ivyivugo are types of literary genres existing in Burundi.miranda20:18, 22 July 2008 (UTC)reply
I will put this article on hold in hopes of getting it up to GA standards; however, to be perfectly honest, the prose in this article, especially the history section, is currently sub-standard. Topics are introduced with little to no explanation. People, events, political parties, etc. seem just "stuck into" the text, without a previous mention. Further, there are some standard
WP:MoS issues that need to be corrected. -
epicAdam (
talk)
21:15, 21 July 2008 (UTC)reply
I've done some of the things suggested. If anyone else wants to clean this up, I got down to the fifth bullet point on history. Thanks for the review.
bsrboy (
talk)
23:33, 21 July 2008 (UTC)reply
Bsrboy, I am actually cleaning this up as well, since I nominated the article for GA. But thanks for your help. miranda00:33, 22 July 2008 (UTC)reply
"Burundi was ruled as a kingdom by the Tutsis for over two hundred years."
From when to when? Dates are important.
Not done The lead basically sums up the article. It is redundant to give dates if a separate article is provided, and the information will be explained below. miranda08:39, 2 August 2008 (UTC)reply
"which caused Burundi and Rwanda to be a European commonwealth known as
Ruanda-Urundi."
"On
October 4,
1943, powers were split in the legislative division of Burundi's government. Chiefdoms were in charge of land, and lower sub-chiefdoms were established. Native authorities also had powers."
Explain how these created divisions. Were the Hutu in control of some chiefdoms and Tutsi in control of others?
Very Imortant: Incorporate the second paragraph under "Independence and civil war" into the first paragraph so the information flows chronologically. Currently, the prose jumps around and is still very confusing to readers.
I don't think so. Having clear prose is definitely a requirement for GA. The main differences between GAN and FAC are the quality of prose, the threshold for adequate sources, and the comprehensiveness of the information. Having said that, however, if information is presented, it should be explained clearly. I don't think providing a chronologically-ordered history section is too much to ask from a GA article. -
epicAdam (
talk)
16:43, 28 July 2008 (UTC)reply
Politics
"Representation in the Transitional National Assembly is 60% Hutu, 40% Tutsi, 30% female, and 3 Batwa members."
Is this mandated by the constitution or just the way the voting fell into place?
Mandated by the constitution. Done Changed: Fifty-two seats are controlled by other parties. Burundi's constitution mandates representation in the Transitional National Assembly to be consistent with 60% Hutu, 40% Tutsi, and 30% female members, as well as three Batwa members.miranda21:33, 8 August 2008 (UTC)reply
"Members of the National Assembly are elected by popular vote."
Are they elected from single-member districts like in the U.S. or is it a parliamentary system?
Explain: "Six years later on June 6, 1998, the constitution was ratified to include ramifications" What ramifications? Ramifications means "effects"... not sure it's the right word here.
DoneSix years later, on June 6, 1998, the constitution was ratified, broadening the National Assembly's seats and making provisions for two vice presidents. Because of the Arusha Accord, Burundi enacted a transitional government in 2000.[32]miranda22:21, 8 August 2008 (UTC)reply
Explain: "transitional Senate serves an unlimited amount of years." What??? So Senators serve for life?
This biggest problem with this article, in my opinion, is that it does not meet 1a) of the
good article criteria—"the prose is clear and the spelling and grammar are correct"—even after all of the work that's been done during this review so far. Here are a few examples:
"The country's modern name is derived from the Bantu language, Kirundi." Names don't derive from languages, they derive from words in languages. Does Burundi get its name from the name of the language?
This actually caught me when I read it in the lead: which words? What do they mean? I think you'd be better off without this if you can't find any more detail.
delldottalk04:12, 4 August 2008 (UTC)reply
"However, at the beginning of the twentieth century ...". In spite of being flagged above, there are still discrepancies between twentieth and 17th, for instance.
"In order to end fighting between the Tutsis and the Hutus, steps towards peace were established." Seems almost tautological. "Establishing steps" doesn't seem very idiomatic either.
"The Nile is a major river in Burundi, where Lake Victoria is the source. Lake Victoria shared by three other countries—Kenya, Tanzania, and Uganda. Another river forked by Lake Victoria is the Kagera River." Doesn't really make sense.
Done fixed. The Nile is a major river in Burundi.[36] Lake Victoria is also an important water source, which serves as a fork to the Kagera River.[37][38] Another major lake is Lake Tanganyika, located in Burundi's southwest corner.miranda00:41, 10 August 2008 (UTC)reply
"The land is mostly agricultural or pasture, the creation of which has led to deforestation, soil erosion and habitat loss, due to rural populations." So which is it? Creation of agricultural land or pasture, or rural populations?
I agree with Malleus Fatuorum - the main issue is satisfying criterion 1a, and it would indeed be a great benefit if a strong copyeditor went through it - I see someone has begun copyediting already. This step would also be a start to bringing it up for considering at FAC at a later date.
Ncmvocalist (
talk)
09:49, 3 August 2008 (UTC)reply
Since the article appears to be undergoing a pretty significant (but certainly needed) copy edit and peer review, I am going to end Burundi's GA nomination for now, but please renominate when the article is totally complete! Best,
epicAdam (
talk)
14:45, 4 August 2008 (UTC)reply
I was done with the copyedit, and that was it from me as far as the review. Why not see if the points can be addressed rather than failing it before they are?
delldottalk15:05, 4 August 2008 (UTC)reply
That's okay, delldot. I will ask another GA reviewer who is very familiar with the process to GA review this article when I am done or others are done copyediting. miranda20:24, 4 August 2008 (UTC)reply
Well done, and much respect for taking on this very difficult and important article! Some comments because I can't figure out how to fix them myself:
civil war erupted in Burundi throughout the middle twentieth century - Not sure about erupted used with throughout. If civil wars was plural, this would give the impression that they kept popping up.
delldottalk05:09, 4 August 2008 (UTC)reply
DoneHowever, approximately 5,000 years ago, the Hutu, a Bantu-speaking people from the mountainous regions of central Africa, immigrated and provided Burundi's first language.miranda01:00, 10 August 2008 (UTC)reply
The kingdom continued through dynasties, until the late nineteenth century.--Can this be reworded? Continued through dynasties is vague and unclear.
delldottalk05:09, 4 August 2008 (UTC)reply
Early settlement under History has a lot of choppy sentences. The last sentence wasn't totally clear; I reworded it, please rv me if I've changed the meaning. May want to clarify who/what Maconco and Birori were (political parties? Individuals?) What does 'take away Burundi's throne' mean? Is this referring to the King?
delldottalk05:09, 4 August 2008 (UTC)reply
In 1948, Belgium allowed the formation and competition between political parties.--Awkward, can't think of how to reword though.
delldottalk05:09, 4 August 2008 (UTC)reply
Clarify that Rwanda and Burundi together comprised Ruanda-Urundi in the first paragraph under European conquest; it's not clear until the third. I think a clarification early in this section of what the countries' relationship was would be helpful. The third paragraph discusses refugees entering Burundi from Rwanda before 'the country' gained its independence--wouldn't they still have been one country then?
delldottalk05:09, 4 August 2008 (UTC)reply
Six months later, political parties formed in order to bring attention to Burundi's independence from European control.--I'm not sure this sentence is accurate. To gain support for the movement to gain independence maybe?
delldottalk05:09, 4 August 2008 (UTC)reply
Following an UPRONA victory in legislative elections, Prince Rwagasore was assassinated in 1961 by a Greek national named Georges Kageorgis.[7] The country claimed independence in July 1, 1962,[7] and legally changed its name from Ruanda-Urundi to Burundi. - this appears to be a non-sequitur, or else I'm missing the significance of the assassination.
delldottalk05:09, 4 August 2008 (UTC)reply
There's repetition of some facts from the previous subsection in Independence and civil war, e.g. the assassination, the refugees. Maybe it would be helpful to arbitrarily select a year to stop one subsection and start another.
delldottalk05:09, 4 August 2008 (UTC)reply
The killing was a pretense for the Tutsi army to start a new genocide against the Hutu. Tutsi extremists massacred thousands of Hutu civilians. - sounds kind of pov.
delldottalk05:09, 4 August 2008 (UTC)reply
DoneNdadaye's murder strained ethnic relations between the Hutu and Tusi, which resulted in a mass amount of Burundians killed.miranda08:14, 10 August 2008 (UTC)reply
The August 2000 peace deal info is repeated in Peace agreement and present day from the previous section. So is Fighting between the Tutsis and Hutus continues to the present day.delldottalk05:09, 4 August 2008 (UTC)reply
Sorry, I meant to just give this a copy edit, but ended up not being able to resist giving it a review too. I'll come back with more tomorrow if you want.
delldottalk05:09, 4 August 2008 (UTC)reply
I moved this sentence to group it with other discussion of agriculture products: The nation's largest source of revenue is coffee, which makes up 78% of Burundi's exports. I wasn't sure if the ref from the next sentence covered it too, so I didn't copy the ref to this sentence. Either way, it needs a reference from somewhere.
delldottalk13:41, 4 August 2008 (UTC)reply
I cannot yet recommend
Burundi for GA status for the following reasons:
General
The article moves between British and American spellings. Please make the spelling of English words consistent with either American or British spelling, depending upon the subject of the article, such as: neighbor (A) (British: neighbour); favorite (A) (British: favourite); meter (A) (British: metre); pretense (A) (British: pretence); ization (A) (British: isation); analyze (A) (British: analyse).
Not done There are still instances where the UK spellings are used (like neighbour) when US spellings are used (like program), and I'm pretty sure that "World Food Programme" uses the UK spelling no matter what -
epicAdam (
talk)
02:05, 24 July 2008 (UTC)reply
Could we stick to U.S. English? I significantly researched rewrote this article in American English. I nominated this for GA. I knew this was going to be placed on hold, and I would make the changes. However, bsrboy your changes are doing more harm than good with this article, and I would kindly ask you to stop doing so, because that would mean I would have more work to do. Thanks. miranda12:41, 24 July 2008 (UTC)reply
Copyright: The coat of arms of Burundi does not appear to have a valid copyright. The supposed "author" of the work cannot legally release it into the public domain. Further, a previous version of the file had been deleted from Wikimedia Commons due to copyright violation. You may want to re-upload the file for use only on Wikimedia and provide a fair-use rationale.
I am e-mailing the embassy where the logo is taken from, and I will forward that to OTRS. Also, I have begun a discussion
here. miranda02:30, 22 July 2008 (UTC)reply
Non sequitur: "Predominately a Christian nation, Burundi's residents enjoy football as a favorite sport." How does playing football have anything to do with Christianity? Wikilink football so that it is not confused with American football.
Vague: "and provided the country's first language." Surely the land was occupied sometime between 70,000BC and 3,000BC, and that those people had some variation of language?
Shouldn't this be in the next section about European takeover?
Used this as a transition for the next section. There were some grammar errors as well, and I have fixed those as well. miranda18:55, 22 July 2008 (UTC)reply
Vague: "European influences caused major cultural differences within Burundi's formation." Wasn't Burundi already formed? What cultural differences? Source(s)?
Explain: "Chiefdoms were in charge of land (pays)" What are pays?
Done Deleted pays. They were in my notes and in the author's words. I was going to look it up, but alas did not have the time. miranda19:44, 22 July 2008 (UTC)reply
Source: "Allowing factions to occur in Burundi would be one of the main influences for Burundi's independence from Europe."
Explain: "During Burundi's fight for independence, unstableness in the Burundi-Rwanda region grew." What? The fight for independence hasn't even been mentioned yet in the article!
Done clarified During Burundi's push towards being an independent nation, unstableness in the Burundi-Rwanda region grew between the Hutu and Tutsi tribes.miranda15:49, 24 July 2008 (UTC)reply
Explain: "In November 1959, a revolt occurred in Rwanda with Hutu teachers." What kind of revolt? Over what?
This is an example of the ethnic clashes b/n Hutus and Tutsis over occupation. During Burundi's fight for independence, unstableness in the Burundi-Rwanda region grew. As a result, ethnic persecution occurred between Hutus and Tutsis. For example, in November 1959, a revolt erupted in Rwanda between Hutu teachers and Tutsi soldiers over land possession.miranda15:36, 24 July 2008 (UTC)reply
Revise: "The Union for National Progress (UPRONA), a multi-ethnic party led by Tutsi Prince Louis Rwagasore and the Christian Democratic Party (PDC) was formed. Following an UPRONA victory in legislative elections, Prince Rwagasore was assassinated in 1961.[8] Ruanda-Urundi was changed to Burundi in 1962.[13] The country claimed independence in the same year on July 1.[8] King Mwambutsa IV was named the first ruler.[12]"
DoneThe Union for National Progress (UPRONA), a multi-ethnic party led by Tutsi Prince
Louis Rwagasore and Christian Democratic Party (PDC) members, became popular throughout Burundi. Following an UPRONA victory in legislative elections, Prince Rwagasore was assassinated in 1961 by a
Greek national named Georges Kageorgis. The country claimed independence in
July 1,
1962, thus legally changing names from Ruanda-Urundi to Burundi.miranda15:27, 24 July 2008 (UTC)reply
Prose here is just awful. Tighten up to improve flow.
Explain: "During Mwambutsta's reign, ethnic violence occurred throughout the region, and the Hutus escaped to Rwanda to avoid persecution." Who and when?
Explain: "This revolution by the Hutus lasted from 1959 to 1962." What revolution? It hasn't even been mentioned before!
DoneDuring Mwambutsa's reign, ethnic violence occurred throughout the region, and from 1959 to 1962 the Hutus escaped to Rwanda to avoid persecution.miranda06:17, 27 July 2008 (UTC)reply
Revise: "In Rwanda, the Hutus murdered thousands of Tutsis, causing them to flee to Burundi While in Burundi, retaliation occurred. Many Tutsi soldiers killed Hutu peasants."
Done In Rwanda, the Hutus murdered thousands of Tutsis, causing the Tutsis to flee to Burundi for freedom. While in Burundi, Tutsis fought against the Hutus. Many Tutsi soldiers killed Hutu peasants in retaliation for Hutu violence in Rwanda. miranda15:27, 24 July 2008 (UTC)reply
Revise: "As a result, an estimated quarter of a million people perished for almost thirty years." "for" -> "over"?
DoneAs a result, an estimated 250,000 people perished for over thirty years.miranda
Revise: "The transitional government was placed on trial for five years, until 2005" You mean, in court? Or or a trial basis?
Explain: "PALIPEHUTU-National Liberation Forces" Who are these guys? They're not mentioned before.
DoneAs of 2008, the Burundian government is talking with the Hutu-led Palipehutu-National Liberation Forces (NLF). miranda06:17, 27 July 2008 (UTC)reply
Overall: So is Burundi at peace or not? The information seems vague as there are elections and unity government yet the article also says that there are ethnic tensions and what looks to be an ongoing civil conflict.
Explain: "In 1992, Tutsi coup leader Pierre Buyoya established a system, where more parties could be involved with the political process instead of a single party." How so? Did he establish the 1992 constitution?
DoneIn 1992, Tutsi coup leader Pierre Buyoya established a constitution,[30] which provided for a multi-party political process.[31]miranda16:57, 3 August 2008 (UTC)reply
Explain: "Six years later on June 6, 1998, the constitution was ratified to include ramifications" What ramifications? Ramifications means "effects"... not sure it's the right word here.
Disambig: "2,638 collines (hills)" I don't think the wikilink for "hills" is meant to link to the geographic feature, is it? If so, it doesn't need to be wikilinked.
Comment: The region's political system is unstable. Currently doing research for more facts to explain the region's politics, as they are quite complicated. miranda19:47, 24 July 2008 (UTC)reply
Geography
MoS: Makes sure there are non-breaking spaces here: "(8809 ft/2685 m)"
Revise: "arguably makes the Burundi the poorest country on the planet." It's not arguable. Burundi either is the poorest country on the planet, or it isn't.
DoneDue to economic conditions in the country, landlocked geography, and lack of resources, makes the Burundi one of the poorest countries on the planet.miranda20:02, 22 July 2008 (UTC)reply
Revise and source: "Coffee is the nation's biggest revenue earner with 78% of all exported goods."
Explain: "However, The Anglican Church of Burundi[44] claims over 10% of the population as members and recent reports indicate the Christian population may be as high as 90% with most of the remainder being Muslim."
This information contradicts what was said in the previous sentence. Why providing both figures? Why the discrepancy?
DoneThe Anglican Church of Burundi claims over 10% of the population as members. This was a run on sentence, and has been fixed. miranda19:49, 22 July 2008 (UTC)reply
Culture
Move: "Most Burundians live in rural areas, since six percent of the population live in urban areas." This belongs in demographics.
Revise: "When several Burundians of close acquaintance meet for a gathering, impeke is a beer that is drank from a large container — each person receives a straw."
Explain: "Many types of literary genre exist, such as imigani, indirimbo, amazina, and ivyivugo."
Ties into the literary/oral tradition. Fixed with Imigani, indirimbo, amazina, and ivyivugo are types of literary genres existing in Burundi.miranda20:18, 22 July 2008 (UTC)reply
I will put this article on hold in hopes of getting it up to GA standards; however, to be perfectly honest, the prose in this article, especially the history section, is currently sub-standard. Topics are introduced with little to no explanation. People, events, political parties, etc. seem just "stuck into" the text, without a previous mention. Further, there are some standard
WP:MoS issues that need to be corrected. -
epicAdam (
talk)
21:15, 21 July 2008 (UTC)reply
I've done some of the things suggested. If anyone else wants to clean this up, I got down to the fifth bullet point on history. Thanks for the review.
bsrboy (
talk)
23:33, 21 July 2008 (UTC)reply
Bsrboy, I am actually cleaning this up as well, since I nominated the article for GA. But thanks for your help. miranda00:33, 22 July 2008 (UTC)reply
"Burundi was ruled as a kingdom by the Tutsis for over two hundred years."
From when to when? Dates are important.
Not done The lead basically sums up the article. It is redundant to give dates if a separate article is provided, and the information will be explained below. miranda08:39, 2 August 2008 (UTC)reply
"which caused Burundi and Rwanda to be a European commonwealth known as
Ruanda-Urundi."
"On
October 4,
1943, powers were split in the legislative division of Burundi's government. Chiefdoms were in charge of land, and lower sub-chiefdoms were established. Native authorities also had powers."
Explain how these created divisions. Were the Hutu in control of some chiefdoms and Tutsi in control of others?
Very Imortant: Incorporate the second paragraph under "Independence and civil war" into the first paragraph so the information flows chronologically. Currently, the prose jumps around and is still very confusing to readers.
I don't think so. Having clear prose is definitely a requirement for GA. The main differences between GAN and FAC are the quality of prose, the threshold for adequate sources, and the comprehensiveness of the information. Having said that, however, if information is presented, it should be explained clearly. I don't think providing a chronologically-ordered history section is too much to ask from a GA article. -
epicAdam (
talk)
16:43, 28 July 2008 (UTC)reply
Politics
"Representation in the Transitional National Assembly is 60% Hutu, 40% Tutsi, 30% female, and 3 Batwa members."
Is this mandated by the constitution or just the way the voting fell into place?
Mandated by the constitution. Done Changed: Fifty-two seats are controlled by other parties. Burundi's constitution mandates representation in the Transitional National Assembly to be consistent with 60% Hutu, 40% Tutsi, and 30% female members, as well as three Batwa members.miranda21:33, 8 August 2008 (UTC)reply
"Members of the National Assembly are elected by popular vote."
Are they elected from single-member districts like in the U.S. or is it a parliamentary system?
Explain: "Six years later on June 6, 1998, the constitution was ratified to include ramifications" What ramifications? Ramifications means "effects"... not sure it's the right word here.
DoneSix years later, on June 6, 1998, the constitution was ratified, broadening the National Assembly's seats and making provisions for two vice presidents. Because of the Arusha Accord, Burundi enacted a transitional government in 2000.[32]miranda22:21, 8 August 2008 (UTC)reply
Explain: "transitional Senate serves an unlimited amount of years." What??? So Senators serve for life?
This biggest problem with this article, in my opinion, is that it does not meet 1a) of the
good article criteria—"the prose is clear and the spelling and grammar are correct"—even after all of the work that's been done during this review so far. Here are a few examples:
"The country's modern name is derived from the Bantu language, Kirundi." Names don't derive from languages, they derive from words in languages. Does Burundi get its name from the name of the language?
This actually caught me when I read it in the lead: which words? What do they mean? I think you'd be better off without this if you can't find any more detail.
delldottalk04:12, 4 August 2008 (UTC)reply
"However, at the beginning of the twentieth century ...". In spite of being flagged above, there are still discrepancies between twentieth and 17th, for instance.
"In order to end fighting between the Tutsis and the Hutus, steps towards peace were established." Seems almost tautological. "Establishing steps" doesn't seem very idiomatic either.
"The Nile is a major river in Burundi, where Lake Victoria is the source. Lake Victoria shared by three other countries—Kenya, Tanzania, and Uganda. Another river forked by Lake Victoria is the Kagera River." Doesn't really make sense.
Done fixed. The Nile is a major river in Burundi.[36] Lake Victoria is also an important water source, which serves as a fork to the Kagera River.[37][38] Another major lake is Lake Tanganyika, located in Burundi's southwest corner.miranda00:41, 10 August 2008 (UTC)reply
"The land is mostly agricultural or pasture, the creation of which has led to deforestation, soil erosion and habitat loss, due to rural populations." So which is it? Creation of agricultural land or pasture, or rural populations?
I agree with Malleus Fatuorum - the main issue is satisfying criterion 1a, and it would indeed be a great benefit if a strong copyeditor went through it - I see someone has begun copyediting already. This step would also be a start to bringing it up for considering at FAC at a later date.
Ncmvocalist (
talk)
09:49, 3 August 2008 (UTC)reply
Since the article appears to be undergoing a pretty significant (but certainly needed) copy edit and peer review, I am going to end Burundi's GA nomination for now, but please renominate when the article is totally complete! Best,
epicAdam (
talk)
14:45, 4 August 2008 (UTC)reply
I was done with the copyedit, and that was it from me as far as the review. Why not see if the points can be addressed rather than failing it before they are?
delldottalk15:05, 4 August 2008 (UTC)reply
That's okay, delldot. I will ask another GA reviewer who is very familiar with the process to GA review this article when I am done or others are done copyediting. miranda20:24, 4 August 2008 (UTC)reply
Well done, and much respect for taking on this very difficult and important article! Some comments because I can't figure out how to fix them myself:
civil war erupted in Burundi throughout the middle twentieth century - Not sure about erupted used with throughout. If civil wars was plural, this would give the impression that they kept popping up.
delldottalk05:09, 4 August 2008 (UTC)reply
DoneHowever, approximately 5,000 years ago, the Hutu, a Bantu-speaking people from the mountainous regions of central Africa, immigrated and provided Burundi's first language.miranda01:00, 10 August 2008 (UTC)reply
The kingdom continued through dynasties, until the late nineteenth century.--Can this be reworded? Continued through dynasties is vague and unclear.
delldottalk05:09, 4 August 2008 (UTC)reply
Early settlement under History has a lot of choppy sentences. The last sentence wasn't totally clear; I reworded it, please rv me if I've changed the meaning. May want to clarify who/what Maconco and Birori were (political parties? Individuals?) What does 'take away Burundi's throne' mean? Is this referring to the King?
delldottalk05:09, 4 August 2008 (UTC)reply
In 1948, Belgium allowed the formation and competition between political parties.--Awkward, can't think of how to reword though.
delldottalk05:09, 4 August 2008 (UTC)reply
Clarify that Rwanda and Burundi together comprised Ruanda-Urundi in the first paragraph under European conquest; it's not clear until the third. I think a clarification early in this section of what the countries' relationship was would be helpful. The third paragraph discusses refugees entering Burundi from Rwanda before 'the country' gained its independence--wouldn't they still have been one country then?
delldottalk05:09, 4 August 2008 (UTC)reply
Six months later, political parties formed in order to bring attention to Burundi's independence from European control.--I'm not sure this sentence is accurate. To gain support for the movement to gain independence maybe?
delldottalk05:09, 4 August 2008 (UTC)reply
Following an UPRONA victory in legislative elections, Prince Rwagasore was assassinated in 1961 by a Greek national named Georges Kageorgis.[7] The country claimed independence in July 1, 1962,[7] and legally changed its name from Ruanda-Urundi to Burundi. - this appears to be a non-sequitur, or else I'm missing the significance of the assassination.
delldottalk05:09, 4 August 2008 (UTC)reply
There's repetition of some facts from the previous subsection in Independence and civil war, e.g. the assassination, the refugees. Maybe it would be helpful to arbitrarily select a year to stop one subsection and start another.
delldottalk05:09, 4 August 2008 (UTC)reply
The killing was a pretense for the Tutsi army to start a new genocide against the Hutu. Tutsi extremists massacred thousands of Hutu civilians. - sounds kind of pov.
delldottalk05:09, 4 August 2008 (UTC)reply
DoneNdadaye's murder strained ethnic relations between the Hutu and Tusi, which resulted in a mass amount of Burundians killed.miranda08:14, 10 August 2008 (UTC)reply
The August 2000 peace deal info is repeated in Peace agreement and present day from the previous section. So is Fighting between the Tutsis and Hutus continues to the present day.delldottalk05:09, 4 August 2008 (UTC)reply
Sorry, I meant to just give this a copy edit, but ended up not being able to resist giving it a review too. I'll come back with more tomorrow if you want.
delldottalk05:09, 4 August 2008 (UTC)reply
I moved this sentence to group it with other discussion of agriculture products: The nation's largest source of revenue is coffee, which makes up 78% of Burundi's exports. I wasn't sure if the ref from the next sentence covered it too, so I didn't copy the ref to this sentence. Either way, it needs a reference from somewhere.
delldottalk13:41, 4 August 2008 (UTC)reply