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I removed this. It's been unsourced for more than a week. Please find sources and add it back in. Viriditas ( talk) 03:38, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
It seems like the cultural reference of the band name Flying Burrito Brothers could be linked somehow as interesting, but I don't know how. Sonja Strom ( talk) 15:00, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
Wet burritos seem to be a regional food in the United States. In the places I've been to in Michigan, it's hard to find a burrito that is not "wet," whereas this is hardly the case in Ohio or Pennsylvania where many people have not heard of them, at least in personal experience. Does anyone have any more info on the regions where wet burritos are served? Wells 298 ( talk) 17:43, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
The Chicken Burrtio, which is the most popular of all Chipotle Burritos, is the best. The chicken is marinated overnight in a spicy chipotle pepper adobo. This chicken burrito can also contain the white rice which is tossed in cilantro and has a dash of citrus. Perfect for vegetarians.And then add the pinto or black beans which are both flavored up with great spices. Then add the Tomatillo Red Chili Salsa, and the Roasted Chili Corn Salsa. Top it off with the fresh guacamole made with Hass Avocados and the cream whipped sour cream.-- JazzTyne ( talk) 02:55, 15 March 2010 (UTC) [1]
It was important to the article, because it's a type of burrito that is eaten by burrito lovers everyday. Like me. The answer to your question is if Burritologists eat at Chipotle? Yes, what a silly question. If you consider yourself a burritologist, this means you study burritology right? So the study of burrtios. In order to know the most about burritos you must eat every burrito out there. So they do eat at Chipotle. Thank you. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
JazzTyne (
talk •
contribs)
06:14, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
I heard that the burrito originates in the States. I can't provide any links, but I'm sure a Wikipedia researcher can find some info to back up this claim if they took the time to look. The Mexican folk tale is a good theory but like i said, I heard it was American. I'll look for some evidence. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.60.178.30 ( talk) 14:04, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
If you wanted to make an authentic burrito, what type of flour should you use - Wheat or Maize?
How thick and how large (what diameter) should it be?
TTFN Chunner ( talk) 16:15, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
I'm from Chihuahua Mex., and here there are many sizes of burrito, since 30cm to 50cm and is wheat if the burrito would be whit maize is called taco.
victor —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.153.24.229 ( talk) 04:38, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
I've again removed this content. Please clean it up, tighten the sourcing, and place it back into the article only after that happens. Viriditas ( talk) 06:01, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
“San Diego-style burrito” refers to the style of burrito found principally in independent taco shops and local Mexican chain restaurants in San Diego County, California.
Contents of a San Diego-style burrito tend to be rather simple; for example, carne asada burritos generally consist only of chunks of carne asada meat and guacamole. Common burritos include carne asada, pollo asado, California (see below), carnitas, machaca, fish, and bean and cheese. In addition to guacamole, sour cream and salsa fresca or pico de gallo are common condiments for San Diego-style burritos.
The flour tortillas used for burritos in San Diego are generally thin, blistered, and tend to flake, especially around the blistered portion of the tortilla. [2] Tortillas are warmed on the grill immediately prior to assembly of the burrito.
The term “California burrito” can refer to three categories of burrito. In its broadest definition, a “California burrito” is any burrito from the state of California, or in imitation of one of the established styles of burrito in California. [3]
At some Mexican restaurants, especially national chains and non-Californian restaurants, a California burrito contains ingredients associated with the cuisine of California, especially avocado, but also including sprouts, black beans, and salsa fresca. [4] Often, these burritos use whole-wheat tortillas, and are billed as “healthy” burritos. [5]
At most San Diego-area Mexican restaurants, a California burrito consists of chunks of carne asada meat, French fries, cheese, and either pico de gallo, sour cream, or guacamole (or some combination of these three). [6] Pollo asado or carnitas may sometimes be substituted for carne asada. [7] It has been claimed that this burrito was invented in 1987 for the opening of Santana’s, a local San Diego chain restaurant. [8] A competing claim has been made that it was invented in 1989 at Lolita’s, another San Diego chain. [9] Regardless of its precise origins, this version of the California burrito has gained popularity in San Diego over the past two decades, so that currently it is virtually ubiquitous at local Mexican chains and independent taco shops in San Diego County. [10] The ingredients are similar to those used in the carne asada fries dish, and it is considered a staple of the local cuisine of San Diego, California. [11] It can also be found in Los Angeles, [12] southern Orange and Riverside counties, as well as in the Sacramento area, even as far west as Fairfield and Milpitas. [13]
This material is likewise unsourced, poorly sourced, or original material. Hopefully it can be cleaned up and returned. Dohn joe ( talk) 18:25, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
Those first few edits were among my first at Wikipedia, and not my finest work, I admit. I'm all for improving the content, and I'll try to get in there soon. (I actually found some discussion of burritos in an academic journal - I'll see if I can work it into the article...)
Was there consensus to support this deletion? From reviewing this discussion it appears there might not have been. Perhaps active editors should review this event? -- RightCowLeftCoast ( talk) 05:38, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
I've placed a merge tag on this article with the intent of merging the history data points into the prose section of Burrito#History. This does not mean this article should not exist, but rather it encourages editors to develop the history section in the burrito article and then redirect this article if it is no longer needed. Viriditas ( talk) 09:31, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
Those first few edits were among my first at Wikipedia, and not my finest work, I admit. I'm all for improving the content, and I'll try to get in there soon. (I actually found some discussion of burritos in an academic journal - I'll see if I can work it into the article...) Dohn joe ( talk) 06:37, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
Support. One entry on any subject is enough, & it should cover all areas. Who could object to something as obviously sensible as this? Dick Holman. User:Archolman 02:29, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
Support Article is not notable outside the scope of the main article, and this offshoot article should not exist. The article topic is far too specific to warrant a timeline.-- Jeffro77 ( talk) 10:01, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
Support put plainly its a silly topic and should be merged in prose formate into Burrito#history The Resident Anthropologist ( talk) 15:11, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
Comment - I have removed 'the worst of the worst' entries. Considering that everyone purportedly agrees to the merge, and that this article will therefore be deleted, then if any of the deleted entries are actually considered notable by anyone, then restore them to the main article, not here. The remaining entries should also be discussed and either deleted completely or moved to the main article, so that this article can be deleted once the merge is complete per the AfD.--
Jeffro77 (
talk)
04:57, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
styles of burritos
icetea8 ( talk) 03:09, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
Why is the pronunciation for US English as /bəˈridoʊ/ (with a d-sound instead of a t-sound)? I commonly hear it pronounced with an aspirated-t-sound, but also frequently with a t-flap (which isn't a d-sound, see Alveolar flap). (/th/ and /ɾ/ are allophones in US English). If your going to distinguish the specific t-sound used by some, the pronunciation should rather be given as /bəˈriɾoʊ/ (although, IPA's symbol for the sound confusingly looks rather similar to a miniscule-R). But, since US speakers are divided between using an aspirated-t or a t-flap, it is probably better just to give it as /bəˈritoʊ/. For me, I actually use the Spanish pronunciation (where I grew up in the US, that was the common way of pronouncing it). — al-Shimoni ( talk) 07:42, 1 June 2011 (UTC)
Currently, the section on US development only tells about the early development there. But Mexican cuisine generally and burritos in particular did not become ubiquitous until much later (maybe the seventies). Kdammers ( talk) 22:35, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
I am not at all clear as to why the image of a man holding a burrito was replaced with the current one. I can think of no GA or FA cuisine article that shows an image of a piece of food after someone has taken a bite out of it, and this is frankly, disgusting. Viriditas ( talk) 09:37, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
An editor added the following material to the Development in the U.S. section. I removed it from the article, and am putting it here for verification. I was unable to corroborate it or find reliable sources for it. If the editor (or anyone else) can verify it, then it's been preserved here for reintroduction to the article. Here it is:
While Alejandro Borquez may have served burritos in his Sonora cafe, it is controversial to say he was first to serve burritos to the American public. One must research and acknowledge the contributions of another Sonoran restauranteur in Los Angeles, California, one Victoria Rico, who owned and operated "Vicky's Cafe" in downtown Los Angeles, just a couple of blocks from City Hall and many business offices, where much of her clientele worked or frequented. Newly arrived in the United States, having left the Hermosillo region of Sonora due to political and personal hardship, Victoria, along with her mother Mercedes Rico and oldest brother Jose Rico researched local American food eating habits and discovered the popularity of hot dogs and hamburgers. Thus, in the mid-1920's, Victoria--with the help of her family--made her initial foray into the restaurant business serving breakfast and lunch out of a little "hole in the wall" location. Vicky's Cafe opened for breakfast and lunch only: eggs, bacon, and potatoes were the morning favorites; while hot dogs, hamburgers and french fries became lunchtime winners.
All of this changed when two customers arrived at the end of her typical lunch service and she had sold out of all her regular items. Pressing Victoria for something to eat, and asking her what she normally ate when she was in a hurry, she told them to give her a couple of minutes and she would prepare them something traditional to her Sonoran family roots. She went back to her kitchen and made each of them a "green chile verde" and a "red chile colorado" burrito, and asked them to try it and that they didn't have to pay if they didn't like it. The two men not only loved her "new specialty" they paid her and gave her a five cent tip (a lot of money back in the late 1920's). When they began bringing their friends and business associates to taste Vicky's wonderful "BEW-REE-TOES" ... she decided to not only add them to her menu, but to add favorite some of her favorite Sonoran cuisine as additional items to her standard fare. Throughout the 1930's, 40's, and 50's, Vicky's cafe expanded and became a regular Mexican dining favorite for the Los Angeles crowd. Many celebrities frequented her establishment, which was known as "The Home of the Original Burrito".
Comments welcome. Dohn joe ( talk) 20:05, 2 May 2012 (UTC)
I am reverting a bold change done by Viriditas, per WP:BRD. The section in question is not a history section, and thus it is not necessary to list the types of burritos chronologically. As the section is a list of the types of Burritos in the United States, and not a history of burritos in the United States, it falls under MOS:LIST.
Furthermore, as there is a main article about San Francisco Burritos, I could argue that there is too much content about the burrito here in this article, and only a one paragraph summary should be included in this article.-- RightCowLeftCoast ( talk) 00:06, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
Hi, one of you requested a third opinion, and I'm here to provide one. After reading through the above discussion, reading through the diffs and the MOS link, I think I would side with RCLC because, as he mentioned, this section is regarding regional varieties, not history. If it were regarding the history, then it would make sense to discuss them chronologically, but it seems that this is simply a list of various varieties, and therefore I believe it makes sense to list alphabetically. That would be my third opinion. Of course, you are welcome to carry this further in the dispute resolution process, but over something this minor, I would strongly urge you both to simply drop it and move on. It's not the end of the world. Thanks to you both for remaining relatively civil to one another, and happy belated new year to you both. Go Phightins ! 02:14, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
There appears to be a consensus for following the MOS guideline concerning the list of regional varieties of burritos that they be listed alphabetically, as is done with the list of non-regional varieties lower on the page.
The section of each variety gives background to that particular variety's development, but is not intended to be a history of burritos as a whole; there is already a section for history, and it is not the regional varieties. This article is not History of burrito development, but on burritos in general. It has a lead section, gives a history of burritos in general, list regional varieties, and list non-regional varieties, has a related food section, and so on and so forth.
Viriditas stated the above:
While there are multiple ways to present this content...
Now it is the opinion of Viriditas that:
...regional food history is best presented in terms of its place and time.
That being said, that is one opinion of the best layout of content, and there appears to be a majority (with the understanding that wikipedia is edited by consensus and not by majority) of editors who seek to follow the MOS guideline and list the regional varieties alphabetically. And any local consensus opposed otherwise to not following the MOS would in the end eventually be found in error.-- RightCowLeftCoast ( talk) 17:04, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
I just stumbled on to this discussion--I hope my comments are helpful and don't inflame things any further. It seems like the main question is whether the section "Regional variants" is a history or a list. Right now, it has a heading on the same level as the "History" heading, so it doesn't look like part of history. I can understand why RightCowLeftCoast would treat it like a list. On the other hand, it doesn't look like a true list either. More important, in this setting in the article, it might make more sense to treat it as part of the pedigree of the burrito, if you will. Maybe we can make that more clear by changing the name to "Development of Regional Varieties", or by adding an intro line at the top. The goal would be to make it clear this isn't simply a listing of all current regional varieties, but rather traces a lineage of development of different varieties over time. I'll attempt that after I finish this comment.
I changed the section heading to "Development of Regional Varieties," which is not perfect--maybe someone has a better idea? Biancles ( talk) 18:51, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
I would like to point towards a potential useable source:
-- RightCowLeftCoast ( talk) 19:38, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
In doing a search about the California Burrito, which use to have its own article, which was boldly and unilaterally changed into a redirect article, I have found 76 book mentions, multiple news mentions, and even more webhits (55.8K) of the subject. It can be argued that the subject is sufficiently notable to warrant its own article, per WP:GNG.
As for it being a "San Diego-style" burrito, there are only two book mentions, no news mentions, and about 26K mentions on the web. Therefore, per WP:COMMONNAME any new article should be named California burrito.-- RightCowLeftCoast ( talk) 01:14, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
And following is Viriditas's rewording of his comment, after I had replied below: Aside from the fact that burritos in Southern California are smaller, where does Arellano discuss actual San Diego style burritos that are not California burritos? Please cite the page numbers and quote the content to the books you've added. Arellano is discussing San Diego purveyors of burritos, not a specific style. And when he does discuss style, he talks about the California burrito. You are misusing the source. Viriditas ( talk) 22:22, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
Now to the problem. Please note how all of these sources have been poorly cobbled together to lend credence to the existence of an imaginary "San Diego style" that is somehow different than a "California style". The sources say otherwise:
I have been accused of editing content based on WP:IDONTLIKEIT, the major deletion of verified to reliable source(s) by one editor, smacks of WP:OWN. And seriously concerns me greatly. Regarding references that do no cite page numbers, the best way to handle this is to leave the content there and tag the source with Template:Verify source, and allow a non-involved third party to check the source. As for the SDSU publication, to unilaterally claim that the source is not a reliable source, and delete its information is not the best way to go about it; take the concern to WP:RSN to allow non-involved third party editors to comment whether the Student Newspaper meets the criteria set forth in WP:RS. Perhaps this edit should be reviewed, or taken to RFC?-- RightCowLeftCoast ( talk) 16:16, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
Additionally, the bold deletion unilaterally claiming that verified to reliable research content is OR could be reverted per WP:BRD. That being said as I have stated above the opinion that Viriditas had engaged in an edit war, and have asked that discussion occur, consensus reached, rather than further bold editing. I will not exacerbation the edit conflict which is being instigated by reverting the bold action, and hope that my concern(s) can be resolved civilly without the need for actions by administrators. -- RightCowLeftCoast ( talk) 16:31, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
It makes no sense to put the wet burrito and breakfast burrito sections into new L.A. and New Mexico sections, respectively. Looking at the content of what was moved shows that the content was not intended to be limited to those regions. The structure of the article had been to show early development, and then show the current state of different varieties - both by region and by style. The changes I reverted made a strange hybrid of history and the present.
A user has deleted a paragraph of the article from the article space, claiming that the content is original research. This opinion is disputed, as is the deletion.-- RightCowLeftCoast ( talk) 16:45, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
In accordence with WP:CANVASS#Appropriate notification, I will notify involved editors, and appropriate WikiProjects of this RfC.-- RightCowLeftCoast ( talk) 20:37, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
Whereas a San Diego-style burrito can be an austere meal of meat, cheese, and salsa scattered about a standard-size tortilla, the San Francisco version stuffs a jumbo tortilla with any number of grilled or barbecued meats...
I ate my first burrito in Southern California back when oranges still grew in Orange County. The simple wraps were one of the defining foods of my childhood.
Their menus feature tacos, taquitos (known in in San Diego as rolled tacos), fries buried carne asada and fistfuls of guacamole and sour cream, and burritos as sturdy as San Francisco's. No frills, no add-ons, no fancy assembly line, just rapid-fire delivery.
The San Diego-style of burrito has been described as "austere", "simple", and "no-frills".
In comparison to the San Francisco-style burrito the San Diego-style burrito has been described as "austere".
Also, because they have less inside, no steamer is required for the tortillas. Nor are yards of tinfoil needed for wrap up.
and is usually wrapped in butcher paper, not aluminum foil.
...and are not wrapped in aluminum foil or steamed
I again, sincerely request (as I have asked again and again) Viriditas to be civil in his/her response, as I am presently of the opinion the response left by Viriditas is at least condescending and at worse uncivil. Just because I do not agree with Viriditas' opinion on the matter does not mean the other user gets to dictate what is right and wrong on this talk page. I have addressed the concerns above point by point that were addressed, yet am accused by Viriditas of avoiding the previously raised concerns.
I have shown where content that was removed was verified by the reference provided, and where content was not verified. I will not be baited by another editor of this article to engage in incivility or to engage in an edit war. If Viriditas disagrees with the validity of a source, I have outlined the RSN route that is available, and kindly request notification on this talk page, if an RSN discussion is began. Another solution is to attribute the description of the San Diego-style burrito to the writer of the source, which is the solution I support.-- RightCowLeftCoast ( talk) 22:52, 15 January 2013 (UTC)
You are welcome to take your concerns about your sources to the RSN but I'm afraid you will be given the same response.
It's not Original Research because the editor did not go out and personally interview anybody, nor did he/she taste any burritos. All the sources seem to be WP:Reliable sources, and as for "cherry picking," that might be another issue, but nobody has shown any evidence that the sources are being misused in that way.
After more than a week, the only outside contributor to this RFC has agreed that the removed material was not WP:OR, and supported by WP:Reliable sources. I therefore have largely restored the paragraph on San Diego-style burritos. With that said, Viriditas's concerns about the usage of some of the sources is not unreasonable. So I've omitted the Newberry cite and the USD Off the Record cite. As for the others, Ellwood and Edwards really can't be much more explicit when they say that the "San Diego-style burrito can be an austere meal of meat, cheese and salsa scattered about a standard-size tortilla." I put part of that quote in the text, and made explicit the contrast with SF-style burritos being made. For Arellano, the version I have is an e-book, without page cites - if someone knows a better way to pinpoint the cite, please do so. Otherwise, you can search the book for what the text says. I changed the text to say "a significant subgenre of SD Mexican restaurants," because that at least is supported by Arellano. The Daily Aztec is a reliable source for what the text cites. It's been around since 1913, as a daily since 1960, and it has editorial standards. The paper and its writers have been cited by other publications on numerous occasions (see Exploring Media Culture: A Guide, p.295; Your Guide to College Success, p. 470; Billboard Magazine, May 21, 1994, p. 85. And just because it's a local paper doesn't mean it's not reliable to report on local issues: in fact, it's the opposite. WP's own guidelines in assessing reliable sources asks you to consider the competency of a source, with the example: If the Easton Gazette is used to reference a claim that Easton High School opened in 1989, that's one thing. If it's used to reference a claim that Hitler died in Brazil, that's probably outside their area of competence. Here, a report on the burritos found within San Diego would certainly be within the competence of the SDSU newspaper. I added a second source as to the contents of a carne asada burrito from the Del Mar Times. The only online version is posted on a restaurant's website, but I contacted the journalist and she sent me the original version, which backs up the text on the website. Let me know if anyone would like to see it, and I can email you a pdf.
I also added a new sentence, that the carne asada burrito is a regional food of San Diego. This comes directly from a Fodor's guide to the USA that contains a list of American regional foods. The suggestions were sent in by readers, but the list itself was clearly subject to the editorial staff of Fodor's. I put in a sentence about its history in SD, also backed up by the Del Mar Times and Arellano refs. I also added as a see also ref a recipe for a "Carne asada burrito, San Diego-style" from food.com, which is published by Scripps Networks, and part of the Food Network family. If that's considered too primary, we can move it to the See Also section.
As for Luoma, it's just not true that "poetry = fiction". Just like any writing, it can be fiction or non-fiction. In this case, Luoma's not creating a magical world where burritos are wrapped in paper - he's describing reality. That said, I'd be happy to let that one go. Dohn joe ( talk) 19:00, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
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You may want to consider using the AfC process to create the article if there are concerns about sourcing. -- Sue Rangell ✍ ✉ 04:32, 6 January 2013 (UTC) |
The second issue has to do with the tone of the debate. I have no idea how Viriditas meant his/her comments to be taken, but they struck me as somewhat unfriendly in tone. Viriditas, you repeatedly imputed motivation for RCLC's actions (e.g. "YOUDONTLIKEIT", "The only reason you are making this ridiculous argument is because you are trying to push 'San Diego' higher on the page, which is the most childish, immature thing I've ever seen on Wikipedia.", "We don't edit Wikipedia based on your personal preferences"). You also repeatedly accused RCLC of failing to give a reason for his/her edits, but from the conversation here, it seems that several of us understood RCLC's reason: s/he interpreted this section as a list, and applied the style guidelines for lists. If you genuinely don't understand where someone is coming from, there are nicer ways to ask for clarification (e.g. "I'm sorry, I don't understand your explanation. Can you be more specific and clear?").
— Biancles
Accusations about personal behavior that lack evidence.
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![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 |
I removed this. It's been unsourced for more than a week. Please find sources and add it back in. Viriditas ( talk) 03:38, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
It seems like the cultural reference of the band name Flying Burrito Brothers could be linked somehow as interesting, but I don't know how. Sonja Strom ( talk) 15:00, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
Wet burritos seem to be a regional food in the United States. In the places I've been to in Michigan, it's hard to find a burrito that is not "wet," whereas this is hardly the case in Ohio or Pennsylvania where many people have not heard of them, at least in personal experience. Does anyone have any more info on the regions where wet burritos are served? Wells 298 ( talk) 17:43, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
The Chicken Burrtio, which is the most popular of all Chipotle Burritos, is the best. The chicken is marinated overnight in a spicy chipotle pepper adobo. This chicken burrito can also contain the white rice which is tossed in cilantro and has a dash of citrus. Perfect for vegetarians.And then add the pinto or black beans which are both flavored up with great spices. Then add the Tomatillo Red Chili Salsa, and the Roasted Chili Corn Salsa. Top it off with the fresh guacamole made with Hass Avocados and the cream whipped sour cream.-- JazzTyne ( talk) 02:55, 15 March 2010 (UTC) [1]
It was important to the article, because it's a type of burrito that is eaten by burrito lovers everyday. Like me. The answer to your question is if Burritologists eat at Chipotle? Yes, what a silly question. If you consider yourself a burritologist, this means you study burritology right? So the study of burrtios. In order to know the most about burritos you must eat every burrito out there. So they do eat at Chipotle. Thank you. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
JazzTyne (
talk •
contribs)
06:14, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
I heard that the burrito originates in the States. I can't provide any links, but I'm sure a Wikipedia researcher can find some info to back up this claim if they took the time to look. The Mexican folk tale is a good theory but like i said, I heard it was American. I'll look for some evidence. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.60.178.30 ( talk) 14:04, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
If you wanted to make an authentic burrito, what type of flour should you use - Wheat or Maize?
How thick and how large (what diameter) should it be?
TTFN Chunner ( talk) 16:15, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
I'm from Chihuahua Mex., and here there are many sizes of burrito, since 30cm to 50cm and is wheat if the burrito would be whit maize is called taco.
victor —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.153.24.229 ( talk) 04:38, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
I've again removed this content. Please clean it up, tighten the sourcing, and place it back into the article only after that happens. Viriditas ( talk) 06:01, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
“San Diego-style burrito” refers to the style of burrito found principally in independent taco shops and local Mexican chain restaurants in San Diego County, California.
Contents of a San Diego-style burrito tend to be rather simple; for example, carne asada burritos generally consist only of chunks of carne asada meat and guacamole. Common burritos include carne asada, pollo asado, California (see below), carnitas, machaca, fish, and bean and cheese. In addition to guacamole, sour cream and salsa fresca or pico de gallo are common condiments for San Diego-style burritos.
The flour tortillas used for burritos in San Diego are generally thin, blistered, and tend to flake, especially around the blistered portion of the tortilla. [2] Tortillas are warmed on the grill immediately prior to assembly of the burrito.
The term “California burrito” can refer to three categories of burrito. In its broadest definition, a “California burrito” is any burrito from the state of California, or in imitation of one of the established styles of burrito in California. [3]
At some Mexican restaurants, especially national chains and non-Californian restaurants, a California burrito contains ingredients associated with the cuisine of California, especially avocado, but also including sprouts, black beans, and salsa fresca. [4] Often, these burritos use whole-wheat tortillas, and are billed as “healthy” burritos. [5]
At most San Diego-area Mexican restaurants, a California burrito consists of chunks of carne asada meat, French fries, cheese, and either pico de gallo, sour cream, or guacamole (or some combination of these three). [6] Pollo asado or carnitas may sometimes be substituted for carne asada. [7] It has been claimed that this burrito was invented in 1987 for the opening of Santana’s, a local San Diego chain restaurant. [8] A competing claim has been made that it was invented in 1989 at Lolita’s, another San Diego chain. [9] Regardless of its precise origins, this version of the California burrito has gained popularity in San Diego over the past two decades, so that currently it is virtually ubiquitous at local Mexican chains and independent taco shops in San Diego County. [10] The ingredients are similar to those used in the carne asada fries dish, and it is considered a staple of the local cuisine of San Diego, California. [11] It can also be found in Los Angeles, [12] southern Orange and Riverside counties, as well as in the Sacramento area, even as far west as Fairfield and Milpitas. [13]
This material is likewise unsourced, poorly sourced, or original material. Hopefully it can be cleaned up and returned. Dohn joe ( talk) 18:25, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
Those first few edits were among my first at Wikipedia, and not my finest work, I admit. I'm all for improving the content, and I'll try to get in there soon. (I actually found some discussion of burritos in an academic journal - I'll see if I can work it into the article...)
Was there consensus to support this deletion? From reviewing this discussion it appears there might not have been. Perhaps active editors should review this event? -- RightCowLeftCoast ( talk) 05:38, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
I've placed a merge tag on this article with the intent of merging the history data points into the prose section of Burrito#History. This does not mean this article should not exist, but rather it encourages editors to develop the history section in the burrito article and then redirect this article if it is no longer needed. Viriditas ( talk) 09:31, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
Those first few edits were among my first at Wikipedia, and not my finest work, I admit. I'm all for improving the content, and I'll try to get in there soon. (I actually found some discussion of burritos in an academic journal - I'll see if I can work it into the article...) Dohn joe ( talk) 06:37, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
Support. One entry on any subject is enough, & it should cover all areas. Who could object to something as obviously sensible as this? Dick Holman. User:Archolman 02:29, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
Support Article is not notable outside the scope of the main article, and this offshoot article should not exist. The article topic is far too specific to warrant a timeline.-- Jeffro77 ( talk) 10:01, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
Support put plainly its a silly topic and should be merged in prose formate into Burrito#history The Resident Anthropologist ( talk) 15:11, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
Comment - I have removed 'the worst of the worst' entries. Considering that everyone purportedly agrees to the merge, and that this article will therefore be deleted, then if any of the deleted entries are actually considered notable by anyone, then restore them to the main article, not here. The remaining entries should also be discussed and either deleted completely or moved to the main article, so that this article can be deleted once the merge is complete per the AfD.--
Jeffro77 (
talk)
04:57, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
styles of burritos
icetea8 ( talk) 03:09, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
Why is the pronunciation for US English as /bəˈridoʊ/ (with a d-sound instead of a t-sound)? I commonly hear it pronounced with an aspirated-t-sound, but also frequently with a t-flap (which isn't a d-sound, see Alveolar flap). (/th/ and /ɾ/ are allophones in US English). If your going to distinguish the specific t-sound used by some, the pronunciation should rather be given as /bəˈriɾoʊ/ (although, IPA's symbol for the sound confusingly looks rather similar to a miniscule-R). But, since US speakers are divided between using an aspirated-t or a t-flap, it is probably better just to give it as /bəˈritoʊ/. For me, I actually use the Spanish pronunciation (where I grew up in the US, that was the common way of pronouncing it). — al-Shimoni ( talk) 07:42, 1 June 2011 (UTC)
Currently, the section on US development only tells about the early development there. But Mexican cuisine generally and burritos in particular did not become ubiquitous until much later (maybe the seventies). Kdammers ( talk) 22:35, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
I am not at all clear as to why the image of a man holding a burrito was replaced with the current one. I can think of no GA or FA cuisine article that shows an image of a piece of food after someone has taken a bite out of it, and this is frankly, disgusting. Viriditas ( talk) 09:37, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
An editor added the following material to the Development in the U.S. section. I removed it from the article, and am putting it here for verification. I was unable to corroborate it or find reliable sources for it. If the editor (or anyone else) can verify it, then it's been preserved here for reintroduction to the article. Here it is:
While Alejandro Borquez may have served burritos in his Sonora cafe, it is controversial to say he was first to serve burritos to the American public. One must research and acknowledge the contributions of another Sonoran restauranteur in Los Angeles, California, one Victoria Rico, who owned and operated "Vicky's Cafe" in downtown Los Angeles, just a couple of blocks from City Hall and many business offices, where much of her clientele worked or frequented. Newly arrived in the United States, having left the Hermosillo region of Sonora due to political and personal hardship, Victoria, along with her mother Mercedes Rico and oldest brother Jose Rico researched local American food eating habits and discovered the popularity of hot dogs and hamburgers. Thus, in the mid-1920's, Victoria--with the help of her family--made her initial foray into the restaurant business serving breakfast and lunch out of a little "hole in the wall" location. Vicky's Cafe opened for breakfast and lunch only: eggs, bacon, and potatoes were the morning favorites; while hot dogs, hamburgers and french fries became lunchtime winners.
All of this changed when two customers arrived at the end of her typical lunch service and she had sold out of all her regular items. Pressing Victoria for something to eat, and asking her what she normally ate when she was in a hurry, she told them to give her a couple of minutes and she would prepare them something traditional to her Sonoran family roots. She went back to her kitchen and made each of them a "green chile verde" and a "red chile colorado" burrito, and asked them to try it and that they didn't have to pay if they didn't like it. The two men not only loved her "new specialty" they paid her and gave her a five cent tip (a lot of money back in the late 1920's). When they began bringing their friends and business associates to taste Vicky's wonderful "BEW-REE-TOES" ... she decided to not only add them to her menu, but to add favorite some of her favorite Sonoran cuisine as additional items to her standard fare. Throughout the 1930's, 40's, and 50's, Vicky's cafe expanded and became a regular Mexican dining favorite for the Los Angeles crowd. Many celebrities frequented her establishment, which was known as "The Home of the Original Burrito".
Comments welcome. Dohn joe ( talk) 20:05, 2 May 2012 (UTC)
I am reverting a bold change done by Viriditas, per WP:BRD. The section in question is not a history section, and thus it is not necessary to list the types of burritos chronologically. As the section is a list of the types of Burritos in the United States, and not a history of burritos in the United States, it falls under MOS:LIST.
Furthermore, as there is a main article about San Francisco Burritos, I could argue that there is too much content about the burrito here in this article, and only a one paragraph summary should be included in this article.-- RightCowLeftCoast ( talk) 00:06, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
Hi, one of you requested a third opinion, and I'm here to provide one. After reading through the above discussion, reading through the diffs and the MOS link, I think I would side with RCLC because, as he mentioned, this section is regarding regional varieties, not history. If it were regarding the history, then it would make sense to discuss them chronologically, but it seems that this is simply a list of various varieties, and therefore I believe it makes sense to list alphabetically. That would be my third opinion. Of course, you are welcome to carry this further in the dispute resolution process, but over something this minor, I would strongly urge you both to simply drop it and move on. It's not the end of the world. Thanks to you both for remaining relatively civil to one another, and happy belated new year to you both. Go Phightins ! 02:14, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
There appears to be a consensus for following the MOS guideline concerning the list of regional varieties of burritos that they be listed alphabetically, as is done with the list of non-regional varieties lower on the page.
The section of each variety gives background to that particular variety's development, but is not intended to be a history of burritos as a whole; there is already a section for history, and it is not the regional varieties. This article is not History of burrito development, but on burritos in general. It has a lead section, gives a history of burritos in general, list regional varieties, and list non-regional varieties, has a related food section, and so on and so forth.
Viriditas stated the above:
While there are multiple ways to present this content...
Now it is the opinion of Viriditas that:
...regional food history is best presented in terms of its place and time.
That being said, that is one opinion of the best layout of content, and there appears to be a majority (with the understanding that wikipedia is edited by consensus and not by majority) of editors who seek to follow the MOS guideline and list the regional varieties alphabetically. And any local consensus opposed otherwise to not following the MOS would in the end eventually be found in error.-- RightCowLeftCoast ( talk) 17:04, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
I just stumbled on to this discussion--I hope my comments are helpful and don't inflame things any further. It seems like the main question is whether the section "Regional variants" is a history or a list. Right now, it has a heading on the same level as the "History" heading, so it doesn't look like part of history. I can understand why RightCowLeftCoast would treat it like a list. On the other hand, it doesn't look like a true list either. More important, in this setting in the article, it might make more sense to treat it as part of the pedigree of the burrito, if you will. Maybe we can make that more clear by changing the name to "Development of Regional Varieties", or by adding an intro line at the top. The goal would be to make it clear this isn't simply a listing of all current regional varieties, but rather traces a lineage of development of different varieties over time. I'll attempt that after I finish this comment.
I changed the section heading to "Development of Regional Varieties," which is not perfect--maybe someone has a better idea? Biancles ( talk) 18:51, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
I would like to point towards a potential useable source:
-- RightCowLeftCoast ( talk) 19:38, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
In doing a search about the California Burrito, which use to have its own article, which was boldly and unilaterally changed into a redirect article, I have found 76 book mentions, multiple news mentions, and even more webhits (55.8K) of the subject. It can be argued that the subject is sufficiently notable to warrant its own article, per WP:GNG.
As for it being a "San Diego-style" burrito, there are only two book mentions, no news mentions, and about 26K mentions on the web. Therefore, per WP:COMMONNAME any new article should be named California burrito.-- RightCowLeftCoast ( talk) 01:14, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
And following is Viriditas's rewording of his comment, after I had replied below: Aside from the fact that burritos in Southern California are smaller, where does Arellano discuss actual San Diego style burritos that are not California burritos? Please cite the page numbers and quote the content to the books you've added. Arellano is discussing San Diego purveyors of burritos, not a specific style. And when he does discuss style, he talks about the California burrito. You are misusing the source. Viriditas ( talk) 22:22, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
Now to the problem. Please note how all of these sources have been poorly cobbled together to lend credence to the existence of an imaginary "San Diego style" that is somehow different than a "California style". The sources say otherwise:
I have been accused of editing content based on WP:IDONTLIKEIT, the major deletion of verified to reliable source(s) by one editor, smacks of WP:OWN. And seriously concerns me greatly. Regarding references that do no cite page numbers, the best way to handle this is to leave the content there and tag the source with Template:Verify source, and allow a non-involved third party to check the source. As for the SDSU publication, to unilaterally claim that the source is not a reliable source, and delete its information is not the best way to go about it; take the concern to WP:RSN to allow non-involved third party editors to comment whether the Student Newspaper meets the criteria set forth in WP:RS. Perhaps this edit should be reviewed, or taken to RFC?-- RightCowLeftCoast ( talk) 16:16, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
Additionally, the bold deletion unilaterally claiming that verified to reliable research content is OR could be reverted per WP:BRD. That being said as I have stated above the opinion that Viriditas had engaged in an edit war, and have asked that discussion occur, consensus reached, rather than further bold editing. I will not exacerbation the edit conflict which is being instigated by reverting the bold action, and hope that my concern(s) can be resolved civilly without the need for actions by administrators. -- RightCowLeftCoast ( talk) 16:31, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
It makes no sense to put the wet burrito and breakfast burrito sections into new L.A. and New Mexico sections, respectively. Looking at the content of what was moved shows that the content was not intended to be limited to those regions. The structure of the article had been to show early development, and then show the current state of different varieties - both by region and by style. The changes I reverted made a strange hybrid of history and the present.
A user has deleted a paragraph of the article from the article space, claiming that the content is original research. This opinion is disputed, as is the deletion.-- RightCowLeftCoast ( talk) 16:45, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
In accordence with WP:CANVASS#Appropriate notification, I will notify involved editors, and appropriate WikiProjects of this RfC.-- RightCowLeftCoast ( talk) 20:37, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
Whereas a San Diego-style burrito can be an austere meal of meat, cheese, and salsa scattered about a standard-size tortilla, the San Francisco version stuffs a jumbo tortilla with any number of grilled or barbecued meats...
I ate my first burrito in Southern California back when oranges still grew in Orange County. The simple wraps were one of the defining foods of my childhood.
Their menus feature tacos, taquitos (known in in San Diego as rolled tacos), fries buried carne asada and fistfuls of guacamole and sour cream, and burritos as sturdy as San Francisco's. No frills, no add-ons, no fancy assembly line, just rapid-fire delivery.
The San Diego-style of burrito has been described as "austere", "simple", and "no-frills".
In comparison to the San Francisco-style burrito the San Diego-style burrito has been described as "austere".
Also, because they have less inside, no steamer is required for the tortillas. Nor are yards of tinfoil needed for wrap up.
and is usually wrapped in butcher paper, not aluminum foil.
...and are not wrapped in aluminum foil or steamed
I again, sincerely request (as I have asked again and again) Viriditas to be civil in his/her response, as I am presently of the opinion the response left by Viriditas is at least condescending and at worse uncivil. Just because I do not agree with Viriditas' opinion on the matter does not mean the other user gets to dictate what is right and wrong on this talk page. I have addressed the concerns above point by point that were addressed, yet am accused by Viriditas of avoiding the previously raised concerns.
I have shown where content that was removed was verified by the reference provided, and where content was not verified. I will not be baited by another editor of this article to engage in incivility or to engage in an edit war. If Viriditas disagrees with the validity of a source, I have outlined the RSN route that is available, and kindly request notification on this talk page, if an RSN discussion is began. Another solution is to attribute the description of the San Diego-style burrito to the writer of the source, which is the solution I support.-- RightCowLeftCoast ( talk) 22:52, 15 January 2013 (UTC)
You are welcome to take your concerns about your sources to the RSN but I'm afraid you will be given the same response.
It's not Original Research because the editor did not go out and personally interview anybody, nor did he/she taste any burritos. All the sources seem to be WP:Reliable sources, and as for "cherry picking," that might be another issue, but nobody has shown any evidence that the sources are being misused in that way.
After more than a week, the only outside contributor to this RFC has agreed that the removed material was not WP:OR, and supported by WP:Reliable sources. I therefore have largely restored the paragraph on San Diego-style burritos. With that said, Viriditas's concerns about the usage of some of the sources is not unreasonable. So I've omitted the Newberry cite and the USD Off the Record cite. As for the others, Ellwood and Edwards really can't be much more explicit when they say that the "San Diego-style burrito can be an austere meal of meat, cheese and salsa scattered about a standard-size tortilla." I put part of that quote in the text, and made explicit the contrast with SF-style burritos being made. For Arellano, the version I have is an e-book, without page cites - if someone knows a better way to pinpoint the cite, please do so. Otherwise, you can search the book for what the text says. I changed the text to say "a significant subgenre of SD Mexican restaurants," because that at least is supported by Arellano. The Daily Aztec is a reliable source for what the text cites. It's been around since 1913, as a daily since 1960, and it has editorial standards. The paper and its writers have been cited by other publications on numerous occasions (see Exploring Media Culture: A Guide, p.295; Your Guide to College Success, p. 470; Billboard Magazine, May 21, 1994, p. 85. And just because it's a local paper doesn't mean it's not reliable to report on local issues: in fact, it's the opposite. WP's own guidelines in assessing reliable sources asks you to consider the competency of a source, with the example: If the Easton Gazette is used to reference a claim that Easton High School opened in 1989, that's one thing. If it's used to reference a claim that Hitler died in Brazil, that's probably outside their area of competence. Here, a report on the burritos found within San Diego would certainly be within the competence of the SDSU newspaper. I added a second source as to the contents of a carne asada burrito from the Del Mar Times. The only online version is posted on a restaurant's website, but I contacted the journalist and she sent me the original version, which backs up the text on the website. Let me know if anyone would like to see it, and I can email you a pdf.
I also added a new sentence, that the carne asada burrito is a regional food of San Diego. This comes directly from a Fodor's guide to the USA that contains a list of American regional foods. The suggestions were sent in by readers, but the list itself was clearly subject to the editorial staff of Fodor's. I put in a sentence about its history in SD, also backed up by the Del Mar Times and Arellano refs. I also added as a see also ref a recipe for a "Carne asada burrito, San Diego-style" from food.com, which is published by Scripps Networks, and part of the Food Network family. If that's considered too primary, we can move it to the See Also section.
As for Luoma, it's just not true that "poetry = fiction". Just like any writing, it can be fiction or non-fiction. In this case, Luoma's not creating a magical world where burritos are wrapped in paper - he's describing reality. That said, I'd be happy to let that one go. Dohn joe ( talk) 19:00, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
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You may want to consider using the AfC process to create the article if there are concerns about sourcing. -- Sue Rangell ✍ ✉ 04:32, 6 January 2013 (UTC) |
The second issue has to do with the tone of the debate. I have no idea how Viriditas meant his/her comments to be taken, but they struck me as somewhat unfriendly in tone. Viriditas, you repeatedly imputed motivation for RCLC's actions (e.g. "YOUDONTLIKEIT", "The only reason you are making this ridiculous argument is because you are trying to push 'San Diego' higher on the page, which is the most childish, immature thing I've ever seen on Wikipedia.", "We don't edit Wikipedia based on your personal preferences"). You also repeatedly accused RCLC of failing to give a reason for his/her edits, but from the conversation here, it seems that several of us understood RCLC's reason: s/he interpreted this section as a list, and applied the style guidelines for lists. If you genuinely don't understand where someone is coming from, there are nicer ways to ask for clarification (e.g. "I'm sorry, I don't understand your explanation. Can you be more specific and clear?").
— Biancles
Accusations about personal behavior that lack evidence.
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