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"It refers to the applications or interpretation of the moves in a kata or other technique which may be practiced without an uke."
Isn't bunkai with a partner? jmcw 14:33, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
I actually agree with the today's "extracted" edit to the definition, now that I think about it. Although most references and teachers will tell the bunkai are "encoded". In traditional dojos of my style (shito-ryu) the bunkai are taught simultaneously or, sometimes, before the kata, and appear to have been passed down with the recent (70-100 years old) kata unchanged since the kata creation, but there are quite a few ancient forms where, logically thinking, there is little chance of faithful passage and more chance of religions or spiritual movements rather than pure encoded fighting applications. On the other hand.... let's find a reference that agrees with this thought. Like, when someone actually sits down and creates the much-needed in-place citations. -- Cubbi 17:00, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
According to Shoshin Nagamine in Essences of Okinawan Karate Do, "There are as many theories concerning the origins and execution of the kata as there are schools of karate." Is this a good enough reference? It only refers to karate, it's difficult to make generalisations when we are talking across such a wide range of Japanese martial arts.-- Martinclewett 19:32, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
Also, shouldn't there be a discussion about how to extract bunkai from kata? Making up hypothetical techniques and testing them etc. I'd be happy to write this but don't think I could cite many sources. -- Martinclewett 19:32, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
There is an existing rule set which can be used to "decode" kata in a productive way to determine the original explanation for the movements in the kata. It essentially eliminates the "dead" assumptions that some teachers make when analysing them and reduces the search space. Chojun Miyagi (goju-ryu) either created the rules or more likely, published those that were passed down to him. The rule set is called "kaisai no genri". They were published in "The Way of Kata" and "Bunkai Jutsu" has an expanded and more understandable set. There are some references to this in the Seikichi_Toguchi page.
They are split into basic and advanced rules which go approximately:
Basic:
Advanced:
131.228.216.128 ( talk) 17:33, 19 March 2015 (UTC) Note: these rules were used to decode White Crane kung-fu forms which were brought over from China to Okinawa and integrated into Goju-ryu. Therefore they should be applicable to kung-fu forms. They should be applicable to any Asian martial art which makes use of Chinese kung-fu forms, such as TaeKwonDo, TangSooDo, Karate and Kung-Fu. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.228.216.128 ( talk) 17:44, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Bunkai article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||
|
"It refers to the applications or interpretation of the moves in a kata or other technique which may be practiced without an uke."
Isn't bunkai with a partner? jmcw 14:33, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
I actually agree with the today's "extracted" edit to the definition, now that I think about it. Although most references and teachers will tell the bunkai are "encoded". In traditional dojos of my style (shito-ryu) the bunkai are taught simultaneously or, sometimes, before the kata, and appear to have been passed down with the recent (70-100 years old) kata unchanged since the kata creation, but there are quite a few ancient forms where, logically thinking, there is little chance of faithful passage and more chance of religions or spiritual movements rather than pure encoded fighting applications. On the other hand.... let's find a reference that agrees with this thought. Like, when someone actually sits down and creates the much-needed in-place citations. -- Cubbi 17:00, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
According to Shoshin Nagamine in Essences of Okinawan Karate Do, "There are as many theories concerning the origins and execution of the kata as there are schools of karate." Is this a good enough reference? It only refers to karate, it's difficult to make generalisations when we are talking across such a wide range of Japanese martial arts.-- Martinclewett 19:32, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
Also, shouldn't there be a discussion about how to extract bunkai from kata? Making up hypothetical techniques and testing them etc. I'd be happy to write this but don't think I could cite many sources. -- Martinclewett 19:32, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
There is an existing rule set which can be used to "decode" kata in a productive way to determine the original explanation for the movements in the kata. It essentially eliminates the "dead" assumptions that some teachers make when analysing them and reduces the search space. Chojun Miyagi (goju-ryu) either created the rules or more likely, published those that were passed down to him. The rule set is called "kaisai no genri". They were published in "The Way of Kata" and "Bunkai Jutsu" has an expanded and more understandable set. There are some references to this in the Seikichi_Toguchi page.
They are split into basic and advanced rules which go approximately:
Basic:
Advanced:
131.228.216.128 ( talk) 17:33, 19 March 2015 (UTC) Note: these rules were used to decode White Crane kung-fu forms which were brought over from China to Okinawa and integrated into Goju-ryu. Therefore they should be applicable to kung-fu forms. They should be applicable to any Asian martial art which makes use of Chinese kung-fu forms, such as TaeKwonDo, TangSooDo, Karate and Kung-Fu. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.228.216.128 ( talk) 17:44, 19 March 2015 (UTC)