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I know I changed it -- take a look at this Google search for examples of the official abbreviation. The full name -- British National (Overseas) -- and its abbreviation -- BN(O) -- both do have the brackets. The URL should reveal that. I've also seen it in the British High Commission, Wellington.
It would be good to have a section on giving up UK citizenship. Mark Richards 22:42, 10 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Indeed, the official abbreviation is BN(O). But most people in Hong Kong just refer the passport as BNO, for simplicity's sake.
It is written: "The law on nationality was spread across many statutes, and much of it was unwritten. "
To me, statutes implies written. This contradicts the ending phrase. [2004.12.31 - JPiper]
Seems to make sense to (the law student in) me -- the law on nationality was spread across many statutes, but it wasn't exclusively contained in statute, being augmented by precedents handed down by the courts over the years -- is what I'd take from it. It could also, I suppose, be referring to the practice and internal rules of the Home Office etc. -- Killiedaft 22:27, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I have married with a man who holder british passport and i came to England from 1998. Now i have a boy who has born in London on 29 December 1999. he has gotten Britsh Passport. and also i have indefinitely resident on my passport. but i left England Jan 2000 and i return to my country. ofcourse I back to England November 2002 and return to my country because of my family. I divorced from my husband and my son liveing with me . I have a question that how can i apply for British passport?
While descent from the Electress Sophia may give rise to a claim to British nationality, it's primarily as a British Overseas citizen. Hence information on this section of the law has been mentioned in "Other Categories of British nationality". The origin of the law is explained in full in History of British nationality law
It's currently duplicated in the British citizenship section and I don't think it belongs there. JAJ 01:05, 23 September 2005 (UTC)
In Citizenship by descent from 1983:
"In exceptional cases, the Home Secretary may register a child of British parents by descent as a British citizen under discretionary provisions, for example if the child is stateless."
I find this sentence a bit ambiguous, or at least clumsy. Would "...may register a child of parents who are British by descent as a British..." be a better way to phrase it? -- Bigbluefish 10:39, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
Does anyone have details of the citizenship test? It is based on a book called "Life in the UK", but I can't find it on the web. Seabhcán 10:39, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
I've removed the comment (at least for now) "and is at the discretion of the Lieutenant Governor".
This is in the context of an exemption from the "Life in the UK Test" before 1 May 2006. I don't think the Lt Governor has discretion over this exemption, is there any reference otherwise?
As far as the naturalisation decision itself is concerned, naturalisation in the Channel Islands and IOM is at the discretion of the respective Lt Governor, just as naturalisation in the UK is at the discretion of the Home Secretary.
However, in the UK the discretion on naturalisation must be exercised in accordance with policy and since the Lt Governor's discretion on naturalisation is delegated from the Home Secretary, the same requirements ought to apply.
In the UK proper, naturalisation will not normally be refused if the statutory requirements are met, is it the same in the Channel Islands and Isle of Man? JAJ 18:57, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
Hi there,
I have attended my Citizenship Ceremony today, and I have thus acquired British Citizenship. I have a question for you.
The sheet entitled "Some Information for British Nationals", enclosed in the pack with the Certificate of Naturalisation, reads: "You now have the nationality shown on the enclosed certificate." However, I can see no mention of my acquired nationality on said certificate. I can only see that I have acquired British Citizenship.
According to the publication "Life in the United Kingdom - A journey to Citizenship" by the Home Office (in particular I refer you to page 17), Citizenship and Nationality are technically two separate things, although that section fails to provide clear definitions, and it certainly does not answer my question: What is my acquired nationality? I understand that I am now a British citizen, but am I an English national? Or am I a Welsh national? Scottish? Do I get to choose? If not, what is this based on?
(Please note my query is not about dual citizenship, on which I am clear.)
Thank you very much.
Can you acquire British citizenship by descent from your grandparents? Let's say both of your father's parents were British citizens (and passport-holders) up until their deaths - wouldn't that make your father automatically a British citizen, and therefore you too, or does it "run out" if never taken advantage of by your father (e.g. he never applied for or held a British passport)? The article doesn't seem to answer this question, it only says from your father (but if your father got it from his father...). -- Dub8lad1 22:54, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
-- thirty-seven 15:58, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
You are quite right, the article does explain it, thank you. I think I was somehow misinterpreting "by descent" when I read it. That would probably place the father in this scenario in the interesting position of being able to claim British citizenship by descent AND British subject status by birth in the Irish Free State before 1949. I wonder, though, what would happen to the second generation born outside the UK if it was born (for argument's sake to two parents who were British citizens by descent) in a country with no jus soli. Presumably, to avoid statelessness, British citizenship would be perpetuated?-- Dub8lad1 19:23, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
Does the template on British & Commonwealth citizenship laws add any value? Most articles are linked from within the article anyway. And if the template was expanded to include all citizenship/immigration laws in all Commonwealth countries, it would likely be too big. JAJ 16:15, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
I am an American citizen, my husband is British, born and raised there. We have a son together, born after we married. I have a daughter, who my husband has adopted, here in America. We currently live in America. He was consistently employed in Britain before, and would have no trouble getting a job again. Also, all of his family is there, so we would have someplace to stay immediately upon arrival. We are having trouble making a living here, as I became disabled, and am not able to work. I am awaiting approval for Social Security right now. If, in the future, we decide to move to the UK, would I qualify for any benefits before I became a citizen there? Would our son and (adopted) daughter be eligible for health care and benefits if we were in the UK? Would they even consider letting me in, since I am disabled? I would really appreciate a reply, as due to our current situation, we cannot afford a consultation with an immigration lawyer. I am sorry if I am not doing this correctly; I am new to Wikipedia. Thank you. THopkins 08:49, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
Thank you for responding; I will try those avenues suggested for the forums. We had previously contacted the consulate, and received conflicting information each time. Their main answer seems to be "Submit your paperwork and we'll tell you yes or no," which is no help at all, and a lot of money besides. Thanks again.
THopkins
22:45, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
what are the rights of a british citizen, i just cant seem to find this information
Rights of a British citizen include:
What is technically the correct description for a citizen of the United Kingdom? I cannot get clarification on this point, and both seem to be used interchangeably, although they both cannot be technically correct. And what was the exact status under UK law of the Irish before 6 December 1922? And their status prior to the Act of Union coming into place in 1801? Thanks a million. 89.100.159.69 17:59, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
1. The correct term is "British citizen" since 1 January 1983- see the British Nationality Act 1981 2. The Irish before 6 Dec 1922 were British subjects like everywhere else in the Commonwealth. They ketp that status until 1949. But when "UK and Colonies" citizenship was created in 1949, the UK was defined based on its borders at that date. So the Irish were not in general entitled to automatic UK citizenship. See British nationality law and the Republic of Ireland 3. There was no Irish statute on nationality prior to 1801. Irish persons under common law were subjects of the King of Ireland. JAJ 02:48, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
In the above-named section of the article, it says: "Before 1983, birth in the UK was sufficient in itself to confer British nationality ..." If I understand correctly, such nationals would now be British citizens. That is, possession of a birth certificate showing birth in the UK before 1983 is sufficient proof of British citizenship (unless it was subsequently renounced), regardless of parental details. This point would be useful to state explicitly, as a large number of people fall into this category and may wonder how to prove it (e.g. without a passport). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 74.15.4.77 ( talk) 19:53, 31 March 2007 (UTC).
What was the nationality status by birth for those who were born in occupied British territories during World War II, such as Hong Kong and Singapore under Japanese occupation? Immediately prior and after the occupation, citizens of those territories would normally have British subject status by birth. If these people could not have British subject status by birth during the occupation, they would certainly be British subject by descent. The question is whether British nationality or "enemy" nationality law applied. What about those born to enemy alien? If British nationality law was recognised, would jus soli apply to them? It only says they are excluded from jus soli in Nationality Act 1948 (enacted in 1949) which was well after the war. This is one of the topics to be expanded in British nationality law and Hong Kong, any reference and pointers would be appreciated. Thanks. -- Kvasir 18:25, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
Hello, I have read over this page, but it is still unclear to me. I was born on January 12th, 1990 in Upper Haford England. At that time, it was a US military base and since it has been closed down. Now I have been living my childhood as a US military dependent. Now once I'm out the house I plan on returning to Enlgand. Do I qualify as a British citizen, could I get Dual citizenship between the US and the UK, or what?
Is the Queen considered a citizen or is she designated as a sovereign? If so what was she before she was queen? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.224.218.136 ( talk) 16:19, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
Is there an English, a Scottish, a Welsh, or a Northern Irish nationality? -- 88.77.229.232 09:33, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
I was born in Northern Ireland and My sister was born in England but on Our Passports it only says "BRITISH CITIZEN" no matter where you are Born In England ,Scotland Wales Northern Ireland, Channel islands Or the Isle of Man it says "British Citizen" inside the Passport —Preceding unsigned comment added by Scales67 ( talk • contribs) 11:34, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
Hi guys! My fiance is going about applying to Register as a British national - her mother is British, and she was born before 1983, so it's apparent that she's eligible to apply for Registration via the UK Mother form.
However, part of this Wikipedia article has stopped us in our tracks. Namely, "However those with permanent resident status in the UK, or entitled to Right of Abode, may instead prefer to seek naturalisation as a British citizen which gives transmissible British citizenship otherwise than by descent".
Now, obviously she DOES have Right of Abode, but we've not sure what the last part of this quote means - "transmissable British citizenship OTHERWISE than by descent". How is it that being Registered would be in any way different (or indeed, less desirable) than being naturalised. And would the naturalisation require the standard 5 years of living in the UK to be valid?
What we're hoping to do is get her Registered (and get a UK passport) in the next few months. We're getting married in April 2009. And around June 2009, we are hoping to move to the UK for a few years to do IT work for a 'life experience' sort of thing.
So, if anyone could clarify what would be the best method for us to get registered, and then legally, both be able to reside and work in the UK, we'd both appreciate it.
Thanks! cmdwedge —Preceding unsigned comment added by 152.91.9.9 ( talk) 05:36, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
say for example that your mother was born in Rhodesia in 1962, a British colony at the time, she left rhodesia in 1964 never becoming a citizen of the 'independent' state and went to South Africa where she had you in 1981, in this case, would she be able to apply for citizenship or is she born a citizen of th UK? What about her ofspring? would they be able to apply for citizenship through her? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.207.249.11 ( talk) 07:04, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
I was born in the UK to Ghanaian parents and sent to Ghana when i was 4.I have a british birth certificate but i lost my passport through fire.Can i still claim a Uk passport or nationality?
I think I may qualify for a citizenship under the new changes for a child born to a UK mother before 1983 - do they need to hold a current passport? also what happens if your husband is a british citizen through birth - how do we ensure we can pass this right onto our children? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.57.216.160 ( talk) 04:44, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
I have a question re IoM passports/citizenship. The IoM article currently gives this much of the story:
Citizenship is covered by UK law, and Manx people are classed as British citizens, although those without a grandparent born in the UK (or who have not lived continuously for a period of five or more years in the UK) do not have the same rights as other British citizens with regard to employment and establishment in the European Union. Citizenship is covered by UK law, and Manx people are classed as British citizens, although those without a grandparent born in the UK (or who have not lived continuously for a period of five or more years in the UK) do not have the same rights as other British citizens with regard to employment and establishment in the European Union.
I have read this separately on a "Blog" website:
...resdients of the Isle of Man receive full UK passports which inlcude an extra entry detailing their Manx nationality. Whereas residents of the 2 Channel Islands states - The Bailiwick of Guernsey and The Bailiwick of Jersey receive British Islands passports, which have the following on the front cover: "British Islands, Bailiwick of Jersey" or "British Islands, Bailiwick of Guernsey" So slightly different in that they do not have full UK citizenship like a Manx national does. BlogLink
Does any one know (A) what is the actual wording on the front cover of an IoM passport; (B) whether the description of the position on the "Blog" is correct; (C) if it is, why do IoM passports not have "British Islands" on the front cover...If there is a difference, is there also a difference in the status of the IoM vis a vis the other two Crown Dependencies?
I initially posted this on the IoM talk page but have not had a response so thought I'd ask here too. Regards. Redking7 ( talk) 20:44, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
...HOWEVER, I think the British Nationality article is a bit confused on these points. Here are some of the things it says which seem a little inconsistent:
Regards. Redking7 ( talk) 21:29, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
The image Image:Ukpassport-cover.jpg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check
This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. -- 01:01, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
The Borders, Citizenship and Immigration Act of 2009 removes the prior requirement that an applicant for registration on the basis of being born aboard to a UK mother must have been born after 7 February 1961 and before 1 January 1983. This finally removes an historical bias against British women being able to transmit citizenship to children born abroad (something that British fathers could do), regardless of when their children were born. Any child born abroad to a British mother before 1 January 1983 is now eligible to apply for citizenship by registration. Akilleen ( talk) 01:19, 28 September 2009 (UTC)
Well done on the fine work on the above article. Question - If my mother was born in Northern Ireland (UK) in say, 1943 and moved to the Republic in her youth and married and had children:
Regards. Staighre ( talk) 11:57, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
Are there any statistics on the number of British citizens? How many people in the UK are citizens, and how many citizens are living abroad? 219.73.48.124 ( talk) 09:06, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
There is nothing in the article on who performs a naturalization ceremony in the UK. Where the oath of allegance is given? Olegwiki ( talk) 11:59, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
British Nationality Act 1981 section 4C discrimination against children born abroad to British mothers Children born abroad to British mothers did not automatically acquire their mother’s British nationality until 1983. The government only recognised this injustice in February 1979, promising to legislate to abolish it but in the meantime giving British-born women the right to register their minor children born abroad as British Citizens. Children who are older ie born before 1961 have the right of abode if born in a commonwealth country and many live in the UK. Some refused the path of naturalisation out of protest that they were required to take a "life in the UK test" and "test of English" as its a bit ridiculous to suppose children of English speaking mothers would be raised speaking some other foreign language other then English. Most of these persons who live in the UK are tax payers and are very integrated in British society through blood and family ties not only through their mothers but also established by themselves. Their children and indeed grand children are all British. In the Nationality, Immigration and Asylum Act 2002 limited steps were taken to address this, but these provide a means to remedy the situation by registration under what is now s.4C of the British Nationality Act 1981 only for those born on or after 7 February 1961. As a result, sibling groups may be divided. In 2006, a good character test was introduced for many categories of registration, including for children over 10 (see section 58 of the Immigration, Asylum and Nationality Act 2006, amending the British Nationality Act 1981). The original proposal was that all children, including babies under 12 months old, should be subject to the good character test. The Baroness Ashton of Upholland, who took the Bill through the House of Lords, took heed of the representations of ILPA and others. It was her own proposal that found its way into the law – that children only be subject to the good character test above the age at which they have criminal responsibility in UK law, 10 years old. You will be aware that there has been much criticism of the UK’s age of criminal responsibility for children as too low. Further concerns are caused by its having been imported into nationality law, where it breaks down the distinction between registration by discretion and registration by entitlement.It thus imposes a very harsh sanction, that of inability to become British where otherwise one would have had the right to do so, on those to whom the UK has special obligations and to children. The good character test should not apply in cases where, prior to 2006, people registered by entitlement. One thing is clear : registration involving a good character test and/or fees, and/or bureaucratic hurdles is not registration by entitlement. In addition high fees have been introduced to discourage registration. These high fees are designed to put off from applying for registration. Registration by entitlement, giving rise to a choate right to nationality, not an inchoate right that depends upon negotiating a good character test, paying fees, and satisfying complex bureaucratic procedures, is the appropriate route those deprived of their rights as nationals without their consent and fundamental to recognising nationality as a matter separate from immigration status. Consideration could usefully be given to creating a single status for British nationals who do not wish to register as British citizens, so that they can continue to enjoy the limited rights (of consular protection) to which their historic connection with the UK has entitled them. Preferred method: All those who have another form of British nationality be given the right to register as British citizens, free of charge. There is also a further complaint:- UKBA SEHL line apparently is giving out advice not to employ persons who hold the right of abode if their passports have expired and are using Section 15 of the 2006 Act which does NOT apply to them as they are not subject to immigration control or permission. I hope you will kindly take these big inequality issues on board as this is not only an unfair discrimination based on our age (This applies to only those born between 1948-1961) but the statements that our rights have been equalised in not correct as we are subject to fees, test of character, etc unlike either our younger or older brothers and sisters or certainly unlike British males citizens who are married to foreign women who have children abroad. This issue has cut right across families and has allowed a variety of different rules applied to every one depending on which generation they are born and not withstanding it only happens to those children of female British citizens. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jmortoza26 ( talk • contribs) 15:07, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
They are not my opinions they are the result of reading what is done in practice. YOU should read more carefully in the manner in which the law has been implemented to see what has happened. Here is a link to all those know it alls to where it states very clearly the processes of application I get the feeling you are more hell bent in removing the article for your own reasons!
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/applicationforms/nationality/guide_ukm.pdf
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/applicationforms/nationality/form_ukm.pdf —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jmortoza26 ( talk • contribs) 19:27, 23 July 2010 (UTC) These are the facts which you keep trying to prevent me from publishing which makes me think you have your own agenda here! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jmortoza26 ( talk • contribs) 19:25, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
Information on what is required for citizenship is out of date and the source is a broken link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_nationality_law#British_citizenship_by_naturalisation
Here is a link to current information on the matter:
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/britishcitizenship/eligibility/naturalisation/spouseorcivilpartnerofcitizen/ http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/britishcitizenship/eligibility/naturalisation/standardrequirements/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.55.192.52 ( talk) 13:40, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
The registration process involves payment of high fees, good character checks, and attendance of citizenship ceremonies. Children born abroad to British Female citizens are not treated in the same way as children born abroad to British Male citizens. [1] Those born after 1983 however are automatically British citizens. Previously such persons held the right of abode instead however they are left out of the European union because the UK declaration of Nationals did not include these children of British female citizens. [2] In 1981 such persons also stopped being "British subjects" as a blanket removal of subject status was applied to all who held commonwealth citizenship whether or not they had the right of abode. [3] In this manner the UK does indeed discriminate against those persons who were born abroad between 1948-1983 unfairly due to their age as well as their descent from a female British citizen. This small group of persons who have close blood and family ties with the UK are left out of enjoying the benefits of the European union as they cannot compete in an open job market nor do they benefit from freedom of movement as it only restricted to EU citizens only. [4]
-- Jmortoza26 ( talk) 16:59, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
Yes I did but it was removed 3 times !!!
5.3.1 British Nationality Act 1981 section 4C discrimination against children born abroad to British mothers Children born abroad to British mothers did not automatically acquire their mother’s British nationality until 1983. The government only recognised this injustice in February 1979, promising to legislate to abolish it but in the meantime giving British-born women the right to register their minor children born abroad as British Citizens. In the Nationality, Immigration and Asylum Act 2002 limited steps were taken to address this, but these provide a means to remedy the situation by registration under what is now s.4C of the British Nationality Act 1981 only for those born on or after 7 February 1961. As a result, sibling groups may be divided. The entitlement to register under section 4C of the British Nationality Act 1981 as amended should be extended to all those still living. There is also room for exploring the present-day effects of historical discrimination and how these might be addressed.
http://www.justice.gov.uk/reviews/docs/ilpa-citizenship.pdf
The 2009 Act that came in in 2010 still discriminates against the children of British female citizens who are born before 1983. This is because the citizenship process requires registration, fees, and good character check. It is not automatic and the same for either those born to male citizens or to those born after 1983. The issue here is that the discrimination is applied as a path through registration against automatic nationality. I fear you have misunderstood my point! You may also read this petition online by another person also fighting about the same issue : http://yourfreedom.hmg.gov.uk/restoring-civil-liberties/nationality-via-british-mother -- Jmortoza26 ( talk) 18:05, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
They are not my opinions they are the result of reading what is done in practice and also looking at the forms and guides. I know you think you are experts but you have missed the point of the facts here and want to repress the information with your agenda behind it
hey are not my opinions they are the result of reading what is done in practice. YOU should read more carefully in the manner in which the law has been implemented to see what has happened. Here is a link to all those know it alls to where it states very clearly the processes of application I get the feeling you are more hell bent in removing the article for your own reasons!
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/applicationforms/nationality/guide_ukm.pdf
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/applicationforms/nationality/form_ukm.pdf These are the facts which you keep trying to prevent me from publishing which makes me think you have your own agenda here!
-- Jmortoza26 ( talk) 19:33, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/applicationforms/nationality/form_ukm.pdf
These are the facts which you keep trying to prevent me from publishing which makes me think you have your own agenda here!
-- Jmortoza26 ( talk) 19:31, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
These are a variety of sources on what is currently going on. It has not gone to court yet as its a recent issue. However I am citing articles from the Guardian as well as the guide from the Border Agencies own web site
The fact that children of only British Mothers must follow registration shows there is already a difference ie discrimination! There is no guide for those born of British fathers
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/applicationforms/nationality/guide_ukm.pdf
Please read the following article on the Gurdian http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/libertycentral/2010/jan/28/british-citizenship-discrimination
MPs site http://garyallanach.blogspot.com/2010/02/uk-citizenship-equality.html
Campaign site http://www.turberville.org/IND/campaigns/
Harriet Harmans Tweet saying the inequalties would be removed but haven't http://www.election-tweets.co.uk/election%20tweets/HarrietHarman/tweet/10933538436
Ndirect govenement site http://www.nidirect.gov.uk/index/travel-and-transport/travelling-abroad/passports/who-is-eligible-for-a-british-passport/nationality-groups-who-are-eligible-for-a-british-passport.htm
ILPA Site http://www.justice.gov.uk/reviews/docs/ilpa-citizenship.pdf
Article http://www.expatify.com/united-kingdom/misogyny-is-alive-and-well-among-british-lawmakers.html
Article http://brilliantbritain.blogspot.com/2008/08/children-of-british-mothers-proposed.html
UK Border Agency http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/britishcitizenship/applying/applicationtypes/britishmother/
Hansard/Parliament Debate http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld200910/ldhansrd/text/100308w0001.htm
There has been no court case - The point we are trying to make is that it is blatant discrimination and are trying to influence the change in law. If not there will be a court case soon to try and get this fixed. However if you read the contents of your own page then you will see that a whole group are treated in a different manner. It does not require intelligence to work out the inverse of what has been researched.
My edits have been removed/deleted on three attempts without reference to the facts. It seems an unfair attitude to not even read the contents of the rules of your own article and draw the conclusions from it even though the differences are shown on it. Evaluate the laws in terms of Age i.e. someone born between 1948-1983, then descent through male or female lines and you can easily draw your conclusions from it and that is not an opinion I am afraid like it or not. This is my last chance to make myself heard after which I will give up as it appears your attempt to stick to facts also likes to obscure the facts itself!
--
Jmortoza26 (
talk)
20:36, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
The reference needed is on the very page itself showing the difference. There are rules for 1983 and after and there are another set of rules for before 1983 on the article itself! I also added reference to the guide as published on the government agency's web site. The reference are primary to the very article itself as well as secondary materials to other sites and other wikipedia pages and those have been removed. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Jmortoza26 (
talk •
contribs)
21:05, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
Here is the section in your own article with reference to the situation.
Before 1983
Before 1983, as a general rule British nationality could only be transmitted from the father through one generation only, and parents were required to be married. See History of British nationality law. Here is the first mention of the issue! It shows that before 1983 there was a recognised issue
With effect from 20 July 2009, the Borders, Citizenship and Immigration Act 2009 provides that a person born outside the UK to a British mother may be entitled to register as a British citizen by descent if that person was born before 1 January 1983[5]. Before the 2009 changes, only persons born after 7 February 1961 and before 1 January 1983 were eligible for this provision. However those with permanent resident status in the UK or who are entitled to the right of abode may instead prefer to seek naturalisation as a British citizen which gives transmissible British citizenship otherwise than by descent. Requirements for successful registration are that the applicant be of good character and attend a citizenship ceremony.
"In the above paragraph you can see it mentions that only children of British mothers have to register if born before 1983.The link to the UKBA guide shows in following the registration route you have to pay fees and undergo good character checks"
I rest my case! Your own article is serving as the primary source material here
- http://www.byc.org.uk/asset_store/documents/resources__pbcr__parliamentary_evidence__the_unequal_equality_bill__24_february_2010.pdf
Also here is an article from Human Rights Watch on the subject which also constitutes as primary material The Government has said that it is ‘firmly committed to eradicating age discrimination wherever it arises. No-one should be treated badly just because of their age’ 5 Yet, in a recent speech, Harriet Harman, the Minister for Equality and Women claimed that ‘… older people are the last remaining group that society deems it acceptable to discriminate against.’6 We believe that such a statement undermines the legitimacy of children and young people’s experiences and reinforces the idea that they do not experience age discrimination. This is not the case and we call on the Government to amend the Equality Bill in order to extend legal protection from unfair discrimination on the grounds of age to children and young people.
http://www.hrw.org/campaigns/race/hrw-statement1.htm
Also read liberties briefing http://www.liberty-human-rights.org.uk/pdfs/policy-09/liberty-s-second-reading-briefing-on-the-borders-citizenship-immigration-bil.pdf
"4.7 The State party states that, in the mid- to late 1970s, the United Kingdom Government recognized the discriminatory impact of section 5 of the 1948 Act and, as a result, the (then) Home Secretary, Merlyn Rees, announced to the House of Commons on 7 February 1979 a transitional policy change with regard to applications by women who were born in the United Kingdom to have their minor children registered as British citizens. This general and transitional policy would apply to anyone under the age of 18 on the date that the new policy was announced (i.e., any child born to a British citizen mother after 7 February 1961)." http://www1.umn.edu/humanrts/cedaw/decisions/11-2006.html
Finally read the information section from this link
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/documents/britishcitizenship/informationleaflets/bnchapters/bn13.pdf?view=Binary
-- Jmortoza26 ( talk) 21:18, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
My trouble is that from 1983 the law was fixed for legitimate children born to either female or male British citizens. Before 1983 only male citizens children were automatically British. Also before 1983 a new section was put in for those who were children of female citizens and there was a cut off point of February 07 1961. Nobody knows why this arbitrary date was choosen. However this method still did not treat the children equally as children from males before 1983 were automatically British and those from females had to register although in those days it was a simple formality of turning up at an Embassy and a certificate of registration was given on the basis of Gratis (No fees) and there was no background checks either. This in fact was the course for my own two younger siblings. However there was still a difference in acquisition of nationality that was not fixed until 1983. Since 1983 questions arose as to the lack of any method open to those born before Feb 07 1961 and this along with the disparity from the earlier section was still in question. The new 2009 law stated that it would fix this by modifying where the word "father" was mentioned it would say "mother" also but for reasons nobody has been explained this did not happen either and section 4C was instead amended to drop the cut off date of Feb 07 1961 in order to extend it back. It still only applies towards the children of British Females. In other words there are two sections in law towards acquisition of citizenship and one of them requires registration fees now £540 and rising each year, and the other does not require registration through fathers and can have a passport directly. I guess I could do with help on how to frame this in a more correct fashion with the citations needed so would be open to anyone who would like to help out with this so that the discrimination issues can be highlighted in some way for wider public understanding. It is complex and the process has been rigged like this in order to create work for the UKBA so they can justify their jobs I suspect. Because the laws are all over the place I thought it would be more simpler to point to the UKBA leaflets online as they show the difference, however since children of fathers are automatic there is no mention of it by them only for children of mothers born abroad before 1983 under section 4c.
These two links from the same government site does show the differences
Through Mother before 1983 http://www.nidirect.gov.uk/index/travel-and-transport/travelling-abroad/passports/who-is-eligible-for-a-british-passport/eligibility-for-a-british-passport-through-your-mother-partner-or-where-you-live.htm
Northern Ireland Direct Gov Site Through Father http://www.nidirect.gov.uk/index/travel-and-transport/travelling-abroad/passports/who-is-eligible-for-a-british-passport/nationality-groups-who-are-eligible-for-a-british-passport.htm
UK Direct Gov Site Through Mother http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Passports/WhoiseligibleforaBritishpassport/DG_174146 Through Father http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Passports/WhoiseligibleforaBritishpassport/DG_174145
The issue I am showing is not only is there a Gender inequality but also an age inequality ! I hope someone will be willing to pitch and help with this.
Thanks
-- Jmortoza26 ( talk) 23:21, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
I have added a new section instead called Obtaining a British passport for children born abroad before 1983 and have simply stated there is an ongoing issue of alleged discrimination for obtaining passports, etc so hope this is going to be acceptable to the problem we have faced
-- Jmortoza26 ( talk) 00:01, 24 July 2010 (UTC)
Users who are involved in editing this article may be interested in Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Children and Maternal Parents Against Immigration & Government Nationality Situation. Cordless Larry ( talk) 07:49, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
There is a direct logical contradiction or perhaps incorrect information on this page:
"British subjects (other than British subjects by virtue of a connection with the Republic of Ireland) and British protected persons will lose their British nationality upon acquiring any other form of nationality, whether British, Commonwealth or foreign."
So: British nationals lose British citizenship upon acquiring foreign citizenship.
and a few paragraphs down: "Since the British Nationality Act of 1948, there is in general no restriction, in United Kingdom law, on a British national being a citizen of another country as well. So, if a British national acquires another nationality, they will not automatically lose British nationality. Similarly, a person does not need to give up any other nationality when they become British."
So: British nationals DO NOT lose British citizenship upon acquiring foreign citizenship.
Can someone please correct which one is the true British law?
Does a British citizen lose his citizenship by acquiring another citizenship? — talk § _Arsenic99_ 07:09, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
The article list 6 categories of British Citizenship, 2 active ('British citizen' and 'British Overseas Territories citizen') plus 4 residual category ('British Overseas citizen (BOC)', 'British subject', 'British National (Overseas) (BNO)' and 'British protected person (BPP)'). How many are in each category? It would be useful to see how significant the number is in each category. TiffaF ( talk) 10:00, 6 June 2014 (UTC)
I reverted the edit by JuandisCV ( talk) because it broke the format, losing the caption, and, in any case, was unnecessarily large - 220px is normally sufficient. Apuldram ( talk) 08:03, 22 August 2015 (UTC)
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I know I changed it -- take a look at this Google search for examples of the official abbreviation. The full name -- British National (Overseas) -- and its abbreviation -- BN(O) -- both do have the brackets. The URL should reveal that. I've also seen it in the British High Commission, Wellington.
It would be good to have a section on giving up UK citizenship. Mark Richards 22:42, 10 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Indeed, the official abbreviation is BN(O). But most people in Hong Kong just refer the passport as BNO, for simplicity's sake.
It is written: "The law on nationality was spread across many statutes, and much of it was unwritten. "
To me, statutes implies written. This contradicts the ending phrase. [2004.12.31 - JPiper]
Seems to make sense to (the law student in) me -- the law on nationality was spread across many statutes, but it wasn't exclusively contained in statute, being augmented by precedents handed down by the courts over the years -- is what I'd take from it. It could also, I suppose, be referring to the practice and internal rules of the Home Office etc. -- Killiedaft 22:27, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I have married with a man who holder british passport and i came to England from 1998. Now i have a boy who has born in London on 29 December 1999. he has gotten Britsh Passport. and also i have indefinitely resident on my passport. but i left England Jan 2000 and i return to my country. ofcourse I back to England November 2002 and return to my country because of my family. I divorced from my husband and my son liveing with me . I have a question that how can i apply for British passport?
While descent from the Electress Sophia may give rise to a claim to British nationality, it's primarily as a British Overseas citizen. Hence information on this section of the law has been mentioned in "Other Categories of British nationality". The origin of the law is explained in full in History of British nationality law
It's currently duplicated in the British citizenship section and I don't think it belongs there. JAJ 01:05, 23 September 2005 (UTC)
In Citizenship by descent from 1983:
"In exceptional cases, the Home Secretary may register a child of British parents by descent as a British citizen under discretionary provisions, for example if the child is stateless."
I find this sentence a bit ambiguous, or at least clumsy. Would "...may register a child of parents who are British by descent as a British..." be a better way to phrase it? -- Bigbluefish 10:39, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
Does anyone have details of the citizenship test? It is based on a book called "Life in the UK", but I can't find it on the web. Seabhcán 10:39, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
I've removed the comment (at least for now) "and is at the discretion of the Lieutenant Governor".
This is in the context of an exemption from the "Life in the UK Test" before 1 May 2006. I don't think the Lt Governor has discretion over this exemption, is there any reference otherwise?
As far as the naturalisation decision itself is concerned, naturalisation in the Channel Islands and IOM is at the discretion of the respective Lt Governor, just as naturalisation in the UK is at the discretion of the Home Secretary.
However, in the UK the discretion on naturalisation must be exercised in accordance with policy and since the Lt Governor's discretion on naturalisation is delegated from the Home Secretary, the same requirements ought to apply.
In the UK proper, naturalisation will not normally be refused if the statutory requirements are met, is it the same in the Channel Islands and Isle of Man? JAJ 18:57, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
Hi there,
I have attended my Citizenship Ceremony today, and I have thus acquired British Citizenship. I have a question for you.
The sheet entitled "Some Information for British Nationals", enclosed in the pack with the Certificate of Naturalisation, reads: "You now have the nationality shown on the enclosed certificate." However, I can see no mention of my acquired nationality on said certificate. I can only see that I have acquired British Citizenship.
According to the publication "Life in the United Kingdom - A journey to Citizenship" by the Home Office (in particular I refer you to page 17), Citizenship and Nationality are technically two separate things, although that section fails to provide clear definitions, and it certainly does not answer my question: What is my acquired nationality? I understand that I am now a British citizen, but am I an English national? Or am I a Welsh national? Scottish? Do I get to choose? If not, what is this based on?
(Please note my query is not about dual citizenship, on which I am clear.)
Thank you very much.
Can you acquire British citizenship by descent from your grandparents? Let's say both of your father's parents were British citizens (and passport-holders) up until their deaths - wouldn't that make your father automatically a British citizen, and therefore you too, or does it "run out" if never taken advantage of by your father (e.g. he never applied for or held a British passport)? The article doesn't seem to answer this question, it only says from your father (but if your father got it from his father...). -- Dub8lad1 22:54, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
-- thirty-seven 15:58, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
You are quite right, the article does explain it, thank you. I think I was somehow misinterpreting "by descent" when I read it. That would probably place the father in this scenario in the interesting position of being able to claim British citizenship by descent AND British subject status by birth in the Irish Free State before 1949. I wonder, though, what would happen to the second generation born outside the UK if it was born (for argument's sake to two parents who were British citizens by descent) in a country with no jus soli. Presumably, to avoid statelessness, British citizenship would be perpetuated?-- Dub8lad1 19:23, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
Does the template on British & Commonwealth citizenship laws add any value? Most articles are linked from within the article anyway. And if the template was expanded to include all citizenship/immigration laws in all Commonwealth countries, it would likely be too big. JAJ 16:15, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
I am an American citizen, my husband is British, born and raised there. We have a son together, born after we married. I have a daughter, who my husband has adopted, here in America. We currently live in America. He was consistently employed in Britain before, and would have no trouble getting a job again. Also, all of his family is there, so we would have someplace to stay immediately upon arrival. We are having trouble making a living here, as I became disabled, and am not able to work. I am awaiting approval for Social Security right now. If, in the future, we decide to move to the UK, would I qualify for any benefits before I became a citizen there? Would our son and (adopted) daughter be eligible for health care and benefits if we were in the UK? Would they even consider letting me in, since I am disabled? I would really appreciate a reply, as due to our current situation, we cannot afford a consultation with an immigration lawyer. I am sorry if I am not doing this correctly; I am new to Wikipedia. Thank you. THopkins 08:49, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
Thank you for responding; I will try those avenues suggested for the forums. We had previously contacted the consulate, and received conflicting information each time. Their main answer seems to be "Submit your paperwork and we'll tell you yes or no," which is no help at all, and a lot of money besides. Thanks again.
THopkins
22:45, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
what are the rights of a british citizen, i just cant seem to find this information
Rights of a British citizen include:
What is technically the correct description for a citizen of the United Kingdom? I cannot get clarification on this point, and both seem to be used interchangeably, although they both cannot be technically correct. And what was the exact status under UK law of the Irish before 6 December 1922? And their status prior to the Act of Union coming into place in 1801? Thanks a million. 89.100.159.69 17:59, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
1. The correct term is "British citizen" since 1 January 1983- see the British Nationality Act 1981 2. The Irish before 6 Dec 1922 were British subjects like everywhere else in the Commonwealth. They ketp that status until 1949. But when "UK and Colonies" citizenship was created in 1949, the UK was defined based on its borders at that date. So the Irish were not in general entitled to automatic UK citizenship. See British nationality law and the Republic of Ireland 3. There was no Irish statute on nationality prior to 1801. Irish persons under common law were subjects of the King of Ireland. JAJ 02:48, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
In the above-named section of the article, it says: "Before 1983, birth in the UK was sufficient in itself to confer British nationality ..." If I understand correctly, such nationals would now be British citizens. That is, possession of a birth certificate showing birth in the UK before 1983 is sufficient proof of British citizenship (unless it was subsequently renounced), regardless of parental details. This point would be useful to state explicitly, as a large number of people fall into this category and may wonder how to prove it (e.g. without a passport). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 74.15.4.77 ( talk) 19:53, 31 March 2007 (UTC).
What was the nationality status by birth for those who were born in occupied British territories during World War II, such as Hong Kong and Singapore under Japanese occupation? Immediately prior and after the occupation, citizens of those territories would normally have British subject status by birth. If these people could not have British subject status by birth during the occupation, they would certainly be British subject by descent. The question is whether British nationality or "enemy" nationality law applied. What about those born to enemy alien? If British nationality law was recognised, would jus soli apply to them? It only says they are excluded from jus soli in Nationality Act 1948 (enacted in 1949) which was well after the war. This is one of the topics to be expanded in British nationality law and Hong Kong, any reference and pointers would be appreciated. Thanks. -- Kvasir 18:25, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
Hello, I have read over this page, but it is still unclear to me. I was born on January 12th, 1990 in Upper Haford England. At that time, it was a US military base and since it has been closed down. Now I have been living my childhood as a US military dependent. Now once I'm out the house I plan on returning to Enlgand. Do I qualify as a British citizen, could I get Dual citizenship between the US and the UK, or what?
Is the Queen considered a citizen or is she designated as a sovereign? If so what was she before she was queen? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.224.218.136 ( talk) 16:19, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
Is there an English, a Scottish, a Welsh, or a Northern Irish nationality? -- 88.77.229.232 09:33, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
I was born in Northern Ireland and My sister was born in England but on Our Passports it only says "BRITISH CITIZEN" no matter where you are Born In England ,Scotland Wales Northern Ireland, Channel islands Or the Isle of Man it says "British Citizen" inside the Passport —Preceding unsigned comment added by Scales67 ( talk • contribs) 11:34, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
Hi guys! My fiance is going about applying to Register as a British national - her mother is British, and she was born before 1983, so it's apparent that she's eligible to apply for Registration via the UK Mother form.
However, part of this Wikipedia article has stopped us in our tracks. Namely, "However those with permanent resident status in the UK, or entitled to Right of Abode, may instead prefer to seek naturalisation as a British citizen which gives transmissible British citizenship otherwise than by descent".
Now, obviously she DOES have Right of Abode, but we've not sure what the last part of this quote means - "transmissable British citizenship OTHERWISE than by descent". How is it that being Registered would be in any way different (or indeed, less desirable) than being naturalised. And would the naturalisation require the standard 5 years of living in the UK to be valid?
What we're hoping to do is get her Registered (and get a UK passport) in the next few months. We're getting married in April 2009. And around June 2009, we are hoping to move to the UK for a few years to do IT work for a 'life experience' sort of thing.
So, if anyone could clarify what would be the best method for us to get registered, and then legally, both be able to reside and work in the UK, we'd both appreciate it.
Thanks! cmdwedge —Preceding unsigned comment added by 152.91.9.9 ( talk) 05:36, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
say for example that your mother was born in Rhodesia in 1962, a British colony at the time, she left rhodesia in 1964 never becoming a citizen of the 'independent' state and went to South Africa where she had you in 1981, in this case, would she be able to apply for citizenship or is she born a citizen of th UK? What about her ofspring? would they be able to apply for citizenship through her? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.207.249.11 ( talk) 07:04, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
I was born in the UK to Ghanaian parents and sent to Ghana when i was 4.I have a british birth certificate but i lost my passport through fire.Can i still claim a Uk passport or nationality?
I think I may qualify for a citizenship under the new changes for a child born to a UK mother before 1983 - do they need to hold a current passport? also what happens if your husband is a british citizen through birth - how do we ensure we can pass this right onto our children? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.57.216.160 ( talk) 04:44, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
I have a question re IoM passports/citizenship. The IoM article currently gives this much of the story:
Citizenship is covered by UK law, and Manx people are classed as British citizens, although those without a grandparent born in the UK (or who have not lived continuously for a period of five or more years in the UK) do not have the same rights as other British citizens with regard to employment and establishment in the European Union. Citizenship is covered by UK law, and Manx people are classed as British citizens, although those without a grandparent born in the UK (or who have not lived continuously for a period of five or more years in the UK) do not have the same rights as other British citizens with regard to employment and establishment in the European Union.
I have read this separately on a "Blog" website:
...resdients of the Isle of Man receive full UK passports which inlcude an extra entry detailing their Manx nationality. Whereas residents of the 2 Channel Islands states - The Bailiwick of Guernsey and The Bailiwick of Jersey receive British Islands passports, which have the following on the front cover: "British Islands, Bailiwick of Jersey" or "British Islands, Bailiwick of Guernsey" So slightly different in that they do not have full UK citizenship like a Manx national does. BlogLink
Does any one know (A) what is the actual wording on the front cover of an IoM passport; (B) whether the description of the position on the "Blog" is correct; (C) if it is, why do IoM passports not have "British Islands" on the front cover...If there is a difference, is there also a difference in the status of the IoM vis a vis the other two Crown Dependencies?
I initially posted this on the IoM talk page but have not had a response so thought I'd ask here too. Regards. Redking7 ( talk) 20:44, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
...HOWEVER, I think the British Nationality article is a bit confused on these points. Here are some of the things it says which seem a little inconsistent:
Regards. Redking7 ( talk) 21:29, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
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The Borders, Citizenship and Immigration Act of 2009 removes the prior requirement that an applicant for registration on the basis of being born aboard to a UK mother must have been born after 7 February 1961 and before 1 January 1983. This finally removes an historical bias against British women being able to transmit citizenship to children born abroad (something that British fathers could do), regardless of when their children were born. Any child born abroad to a British mother before 1 January 1983 is now eligible to apply for citizenship by registration. Akilleen ( talk) 01:19, 28 September 2009 (UTC)
Well done on the fine work on the above article. Question - If my mother was born in Northern Ireland (UK) in say, 1943 and moved to the Republic in her youth and married and had children:
Regards. Staighre ( talk) 11:57, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
Are there any statistics on the number of British citizens? How many people in the UK are citizens, and how many citizens are living abroad? 219.73.48.124 ( talk) 09:06, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
There is nothing in the article on who performs a naturalization ceremony in the UK. Where the oath of allegance is given? Olegwiki ( talk) 11:59, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
British Nationality Act 1981 section 4C discrimination against children born abroad to British mothers Children born abroad to British mothers did not automatically acquire their mother’s British nationality until 1983. The government only recognised this injustice in February 1979, promising to legislate to abolish it but in the meantime giving British-born women the right to register their minor children born abroad as British Citizens. Children who are older ie born before 1961 have the right of abode if born in a commonwealth country and many live in the UK. Some refused the path of naturalisation out of protest that they were required to take a "life in the UK test" and "test of English" as its a bit ridiculous to suppose children of English speaking mothers would be raised speaking some other foreign language other then English. Most of these persons who live in the UK are tax payers and are very integrated in British society through blood and family ties not only through their mothers but also established by themselves. Their children and indeed grand children are all British. In the Nationality, Immigration and Asylum Act 2002 limited steps were taken to address this, but these provide a means to remedy the situation by registration under what is now s.4C of the British Nationality Act 1981 only for those born on or after 7 February 1961. As a result, sibling groups may be divided. In 2006, a good character test was introduced for many categories of registration, including for children over 10 (see section 58 of the Immigration, Asylum and Nationality Act 2006, amending the British Nationality Act 1981). The original proposal was that all children, including babies under 12 months old, should be subject to the good character test. The Baroness Ashton of Upholland, who took the Bill through the House of Lords, took heed of the representations of ILPA and others. It was her own proposal that found its way into the law – that children only be subject to the good character test above the age at which they have criminal responsibility in UK law, 10 years old. You will be aware that there has been much criticism of the UK’s age of criminal responsibility for children as too low. Further concerns are caused by its having been imported into nationality law, where it breaks down the distinction between registration by discretion and registration by entitlement.It thus imposes a very harsh sanction, that of inability to become British where otherwise one would have had the right to do so, on those to whom the UK has special obligations and to children. The good character test should not apply in cases where, prior to 2006, people registered by entitlement. One thing is clear : registration involving a good character test and/or fees, and/or bureaucratic hurdles is not registration by entitlement. In addition high fees have been introduced to discourage registration. These high fees are designed to put off from applying for registration. Registration by entitlement, giving rise to a choate right to nationality, not an inchoate right that depends upon negotiating a good character test, paying fees, and satisfying complex bureaucratic procedures, is the appropriate route those deprived of their rights as nationals without their consent and fundamental to recognising nationality as a matter separate from immigration status. Consideration could usefully be given to creating a single status for British nationals who do not wish to register as British citizens, so that they can continue to enjoy the limited rights (of consular protection) to which their historic connection with the UK has entitled them. Preferred method: All those who have another form of British nationality be given the right to register as British citizens, free of charge. There is also a further complaint:- UKBA SEHL line apparently is giving out advice not to employ persons who hold the right of abode if their passports have expired and are using Section 15 of the 2006 Act which does NOT apply to them as they are not subject to immigration control or permission. I hope you will kindly take these big inequality issues on board as this is not only an unfair discrimination based on our age (This applies to only those born between 1948-1961) but the statements that our rights have been equalised in not correct as we are subject to fees, test of character, etc unlike either our younger or older brothers and sisters or certainly unlike British males citizens who are married to foreign women who have children abroad. This issue has cut right across families and has allowed a variety of different rules applied to every one depending on which generation they are born and not withstanding it only happens to those children of female British citizens. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jmortoza26 ( talk • contribs) 15:07, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
They are not my opinions they are the result of reading what is done in practice. YOU should read more carefully in the manner in which the law has been implemented to see what has happened. Here is a link to all those know it alls to where it states very clearly the processes of application I get the feeling you are more hell bent in removing the article for your own reasons!
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/applicationforms/nationality/guide_ukm.pdf
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/applicationforms/nationality/form_ukm.pdf —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jmortoza26 ( talk • contribs) 19:27, 23 July 2010 (UTC) These are the facts which you keep trying to prevent me from publishing which makes me think you have your own agenda here! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jmortoza26 ( talk • contribs) 19:25, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
Information on what is required for citizenship is out of date and the source is a broken link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_nationality_law#British_citizenship_by_naturalisation
Here is a link to current information on the matter:
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/britishcitizenship/eligibility/naturalisation/spouseorcivilpartnerofcitizen/ http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/britishcitizenship/eligibility/naturalisation/standardrequirements/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.55.192.52 ( talk) 13:40, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
The registration process involves payment of high fees, good character checks, and attendance of citizenship ceremonies. Children born abroad to British Female citizens are not treated in the same way as children born abroad to British Male citizens. [1] Those born after 1983 however are automatically British citizens. Previously such persons held the right of abode instead however they are left out of the European union because the UK declaration of Nationals did not include these children of British female citizens. [2] In 1981 such persons also stopped being "British subjects" as a blanket removal of subject status was applied to all who held commonwealth citizenship whether or not they had the right of abode. [3] In this manner the UK does indeed discriminate against those persons who were born abroad between 1948-1983 unfairly due to their age as well as their descent from a female British citizen. This small group of persons who have close blood and family ties with the UK are left out of enjoying the benefits of the European union as they cannot compete in an open job market nor do they benefit from freedom of movement as it only restricted to EU citizens only. [4]
-- Jmortoza26 ( talk) 16:59, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
Yes I did but it was removed 3 times !!!
5.3.1 British Nationality Act 1981 section 4C discrimination against children born abroad to British mothers Children born abroad to British mothers did not automatically acquire their mother’s British nationality until 1983. The government only recognised this injustice in February 1979, promising to legislate to abolish it but in the meantime giving British-born women the right to register their minor children born abroad as British Citizens. In the Nationality, Immigration and Asylum Act 2002 limited steps were taken to address this, but these provide a means to remedy the situation by registration under what is now s.4C of the British Nationality Act 1981 only for those born on or after 7 February 1961. As a result, sibling groups may be divided. The entitlement to register under section 4C of the British Nationality Act 1981 as amended should be extended to all those still living. There is also room for exploring the present-day effects of historical discrimination and how these might be addressed.
http://www.justice.gov.uk/reviews/docs/ilpa-citizenship.pdf
The 2009 Act that came in in 2010 still discriminates against the children of British female citizens who are born before 1983. This is because the citizenship process requires registration, fees, and good character check. It is not automatic and the same for either those born to male citizens or to those born after 1983. The issue here is that the discrimination is applied as a path through registration against automatic nationality. I fear you have misunderstood my point! You may also read this petition online by another person also fighting about the same issue : http://yourfreedom.hmg.gov.uk/restoring-civil-liberties/nationality-via-british-mother -- Jmortoza26 ( talk) 18:05, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
They are not my opinions they are the result of reading what is done in practice and also looking at the forms and guides. I know you think you are experts but you have missed the point of the facts here and want to repress the information with your agenda behind it
hey are not my opinions they are the result of reading what is done in practice. YOU should read more carefully in the manner in which the law has been implemented to see what has happened. Here is a link to all those know it alls to where it states very clearly the processes of application I get the feeling you are more hell bent in removing the article for your own reasons!
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/applicationforms/nationality/guide_ukm.pdf
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/applicationforms/nationality/form_ukm.pdf These are the facts which you keep trying to prevent me from publishing which makes me think you have your own agenda here!
-- Jmortoza26 ( talk) 19:33, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/applicationforms/nationality/form_ukm.pdf
These are the facts which you keep trying to prevent me from publishing which makes me think you have your own agenda here!
-- Jmortoza26 ( talk) 19:31, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
These are a variety of sources on what is currently going on. It has not gone to court yet as its a recent issue. However I am citing articles from the Guardian as well as the guide from the Border Agencies own web site
The fact that children of only British Mothers must follow registration shows there is already a difference ie discrimination! There is no guide for those born of British fathers
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/applicationforms/nationality/guide_ukm.pdf
Please read the following article on the Gurdian http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/libertycentral/2010/jan/28/british-citizenship-discrimination
MPs site http://garyallanach.blogspot.com/2010/02/uk-citizenship-equality.html
Campaign site http://www.turberville.org/IND/campaigns/
Harriet Harmans Tweet saying the inequalties would be removed but haven't http://www.election-tweets.co.uk/election%20tweets/HarrietHarman/tweet/10933538436
Ndirect govenement site http://www.nidirect.gov.uk/index/travel-and-transport/travelling-abroad/passports/who-is-eligible-for-a-british-passport/nationality-groups-who-are-eligible-for-a-british-passport.htm
ILPA Site http://www.justice.gov.uk/reviews/docs/ilpa-citizenship.pdf
Article http://www.expatify.com/united-kingdom/misogyny-is-alive-and-well-among-british-lawmakers.html
Article http://brilliantbritain.blogspot.com/2008/08/children-of-british-mothers-proposed.html
UK Border Agency http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/britishcitizenship/applying/applicationtypes/britishmother/
Hansard/Parliament Debate http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld200910/ldhansrd/text/100308w0001.htm
There has been no court case - The point we are trying to make is that it is blatant discrimination and are trying to influence the change in law. If not there will be a court case soon to try and get this fixed. However if you read the contents of your own page then you will see that a whole group are treated in a different manner. It does not require intelligence to work out the inverse of what has been researched.
My edits have been removed/deleted on three attempts without reference to the facts. It seems an unfair attitude to not even read the contents of the rules of your own article and draw the conclusions from it even though the differences are shown on it. Evaluate the laws in terms of Age i.e. someone born between 1948-1983, then descent through male or female lines and you can easily draw your conclusions from it and that is not an opinion I am afraid like it or not. This is my last chance to make myself heard after which I will give up as it appears your attempt to stick to facts also likes to obscure the facts itself!
--
Jmortoza26 (
talk)
20:36, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
The reference needed is on the very page itself showing the difference. There are rules for 1983 and after and there are another set of rules for before 1983 on the article itself! I also added reference to the guide as published on the government agency's web site. The reference are primary to the very article itself as well as secondary materials to other sites and other wikipedia pages and those have been removed. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Jmortoza26 (
talk •
contribs)
21:05, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
Here is the section in your own article with reference to the situation.
Before 1983
Before 1983, as a general rule British nationality could only be transmitted from the father through one generation only, and parents were required to be married. See History of British nationality law. Here is the first mention of the issue! It shows that before 1983 there was a recognised issue
With effect from 20 July 2009, the Borders, Citizenship and Immigration Act 2009 provides that a person born outside the UK to a British mother may be entitled to register as a British citizen by descent if that person was born before 1 January 1983[5]. Before the 2009 changes, only persons born after 7 February 1961 and before 1 January 1983 were eligible for this provision. However those with permanent resident status in the UK or who are entitled to the right of abode may instead prefer to seek naturalisation as a British citizen which gives transmissible British citizenship otherwise than by descent. Requirements for successful registration are that the applicant be of good character and attend a citizenship ceremony.
"In the above paragraph you can see it mentions that only children of British mothers have to register if born before 1983.The link to the UKBA guide shows in following the registration route you have to pay fees and undergo good character checks"
I rest my case! Your own article is serving as the primary source material here
- http://www.byc.org.uk/asset_store/documents/resources__pbcr__parliamentary_evidence__the_unequal_equality_bill__24_february_2010.pdf
Also here is an article from Human Rights Watch on the subject which also constitutes as primary material The Government has said that it is ‘firmly committed to eradicating age discrimination wherever it arises. No-one should be treated badly just because of their age’ 5 Yet, in a recent speech, Harriet Harman, the Minister for Equality and Women claimed that ‘… older people are the last remaining group that society deems it acceptable to discriminate against.’6 We believe that such a statement undermines the legitimacy of children and young people’s experiences and reinforces the idea that they do not experience age discrimination. This is not the case and we call on the Government to amend the Equality Bill in order to extend legal protection from unfair discrimination on the grounds of age to children and young people.
http://www.hrw.org/campaigns/race/hrw-statement1.htm
Also read liberties briefing http://www.liberty-human-rights.org.uk/pdfs/policy-09/liberty-s-second-reading-briefing-on-the-borders-citizenship-immigration-bil.pdf
"4.7 The State party states that, in the mid- to late 1970s, the United Kingdom Government recognized the discriminatory impact of section 5 of the 1948 Act and, as a result, the (then) Home Secretary, Merlyn Rees, announced to the House of Commons on 7 February 1979 a transitional policy change with regard to applications by women who were born in the United Kingdom to have their minor children registered as British citizens. This general and transitional policy would apply to anyone under the age of 18 on the date that the new policy was announced (i.e., any child born to a British citizen mother after 7 February 1961)." http://www1.umn.edu/humanrts/cedaw/decisions/11-2006.html
Finally read the information section from this link
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/documents/britishcitizenship/informationleaflets/bnchapters/bn13.pdf?view=Binary
-- Jmortoza26 ( talk) 21:18, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
My trouble is that from 1983 the law was fixed for legitimate children born to either female or male British citizens. Before 1983 only male citizens children were automatically British. Also before 1983 a new section was put in for those who were children of female citizens and there was a cut off point of February 07 1961. Nobody knows why this arbitrary date was choosen. However this method still did not treat the children equally as children from males before 1983 were automatically British and those from females had to register although in those days it was a simple formality of turning up at an Embassy and a certificate of registration was given on the basis of Gratis (No fees) and there was no background checks either. This in fact was the course for my own two younger siblings. However there was still a difference in acquisition of nationality that was not fixed until 1983. Since 1983 questions arose as to the lack of any method open to those born before Feb 07 1961 and this along with the disparity from the earlier section was still in question. The new 2009 law stated that it would fix this by modifying where the word "father" was mentioned it would say "mother" also but for reasons nobody has been explained this did not happen either and section 4C was instead amended to drop the cut off date of Feb 07 1961 in order to extend it back. It still only applies towards the children of British Females. In other words there are two sections in law towards acquisition of citizenship and one of them requires registration fees now £540 and rising each year, and the other does not require registration through fathers and can have a passport directly. I guess I could do with help on how to frame this in a more correct fashion with the citations needed so would be open to anyone who would like to help out with this so that the discrimination issues can be highlighted in some way for wider public understanding. It is complex and the process has been rigged like this in order to create work for the UKBA so they can justify their jobs I suspect. Because the laws are all over the place I thought it would be more simpler to point to the UKBA leaflets online as they show the difference, however since children of fathers are automatic there is no mention of it by them only for children of mothers born abroad before 1983 under section 4c.
These two links from the same government site does show the differences
Through Mother before 1983 http://www.nidirect.gov.uk/index/travel-and-transport/travelling-abroad/passports/who-is-eligible-for-a-british-passport/eligibility-for-a-british-passport-through-your-mother-partner-or-where-you-live.htm
Northern Ireland Direct Gov Site Through Father http://www.nidirect.gov.uk/index/travel-and-transport/travelling-abroad/passports/who-is-eligible-for-a-british-passport/nationality-groups-who-are-eligible-for-a-british-passport.htm
UK Direct Gov Site Through Mother http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Passports/WhoiseligibleforaBritishpassport/DG_174146 Through Father http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Passports/WhoiseligibleforaBritishpassport/DG_174145
The issue I am showing is not only is there a Gender inequality but also an age inequality ! I hope someone will be willing to pitch and help with this.
Thanks
-- Jmortoza26 ( talk) 23:21, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
I have added a new section instead called Obtaining a British passport for children born abroad before 1983 and have simply stated there is an ongoing issue of alleged discrimination for obtaining passports, etc so hope this is going to be acceptable to the problem we have faced
-- Jmortoza26 ( talk) 00:01, 24 July 2010 (UTC)
Users who are involved in editing this article may be interested in Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Children and Maternal Parents Against Immigration & Government Nationality Situation. Cordless Larry ( talk) 07:49, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
There is a direct logical contradiction or perhaps incorrect information on this page:
"British subjects (other than British subjects by virtue of a connection with the Republic of Ireland) and British protected persons will lose their British nationality upon acquiring any other form of nationality, whether British, Commonwealth or foreign."
So: British nationals lose British citizenship upon acquiring foreign citizenship.
and a few paragraphs down: "Since the British Nationality Act of 1948, there is in general no restriction, in United Kingdom law, on a British national being a citizen of another country as well. So, if a British national acquires another nationality, they will not automatically lose British nationality. Similarly, a person does not need to give up any other nationality when they become British."
So: British nationals DO NOT lose British citizenship upon acquiring foreign citizenship.
Can someone please correct which one is the true British law?
Does a British citizen lose his citizenship by acquiring another citizenship? — talk § _Arsenic99_ 07:09, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
The article list 6 categories of British Citizenship, 2 active ('British citizen' and 'British Overseas Territories citizen') plus 4 residual category ('British Overseas citizen (BOC)', 'British subject', 'British National (Overseas) (BNO)' and 'British protected person (BPP)'). How many are in each category? It would be useful to see how significant the number is in each category. TiffaF ( talk) 10:00, 6 June 2014 (UTC)
I reverted the edit by JuandisCV ( talk) because it broke the format, losing the caption, and, in any case, was unnecessarily large - 220px is normally sufficient. Apuldram ( talk) 08:03, 22 August 2015 (UTC)
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