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Somebody put an opinion piece across very incorrectly here. The BBC claims that Chicken tikka masala is "Britain's true national dish". So the BBC's name needs to be there, there is no evidence that this is majority British opinion and it is clearly bias to present the dish as if it were. Focusing on "take-away culture" is really offensive and is patronising attempt to sell "multiculturalism".
Also Chicken tikka masala was developed in India with the British, when India was an Imperial territory of the British Empire, nothing to do with later Indian settlers in Britain. Again this seems politically motivated, and very left wing in slant. Britain's connection to such cuisine is through the Old Empire. - Arthur Wicket ( talk) 19:31, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
After a quick browse around the web, this is indeed a left-wing stance bias in favour of the political ideology multiculturalism, as it was purportrated by one Robin Cook a high profile politician of the New Labour-period. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2001/apr/19/race.britishidentity
I mean this force feeding a highly politicised statement like that down the throats of millions of Britons and claiming their national dish is Indian take-away, throwing aside fish & chips, sunday roast which are considered by the natives as British cuisine, is a bit much. In Britain, curry houses are marketed as simply "Indian", and people go to "order an Indian" note the majority of people do not think of it as just "British". Just the same as they do when going for a "Chinese", "Mexican" or "Italian". - Arthur Wicket ( talk) 20:12, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
Sure:
http://www.squaremeal.co.uk/restaurants/london/selection/96/Best_Indian http://www.tandoori.co.uk/ http://bits.wikimedia.org/skins-1.5/common/images/button_extlink.png See how it says "Indian" rather than "British-Indian" so your multiculturalist Robin Cook propaganda fails? Now, can you verify that the racist anti-British sentiment of claiming some tacky take-away is the nation dish, isn't a politically charged left-wing bias statement from a left-wing politcian promoting multiculturalism? Why are you trying to stur up hatred and resentment of Indian people by attacking the native cuisine of Britain? - Arthur Wicket ( talk) 11:17, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
Just because you don't agree with a statement doesn't mean it is representative of bias, and I've got to be honest, who is a more reliable source- a large national media organisation or you and your mate Terry down the pub?
Don't use wikipedia to spout your insane ramblings about a "leftist conspiracy" unless you have a verifiable source; you can do that on the Daily Mail website. 92.16.42.207 ( talk) 11:56, 9 January 2011 (UTC)
This is nuts. It's not a political issue, it's really quite straightforward. When the British media picked up on the apparent fact that "Indian" food had become the most popular takeaway food in the country it took the oppportunity for some sensationalist journalism and for a while there was a bit of a debate on whether or not the most popular "Indian" dish should be made the national dish (not that Britain has an official national dish) all very nice attention grabbing headline making stuff but not encyclopaedic on the subject of British cuisine. What is encyclopaedic is the fact that Chicken Tikka masala was actually invented by an Indian immigrant in a curry house in Glasgow, and is therefore British-Inidan cuisine. This is the fact that should be mentioned here, not that the British media like to write about it... If anything that should be a journalism article. Furthermore, if any curry dish deverves a mention in the first paragraph of this article it is Coronation Chicken - the original, notable, Anglo-Indian dish with unquestionably Imperial roots. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.177.170.197 ( talk) 08:16, 28 March 2011 (UTC)
Interesting as it certainly is, I'm not sure the cite provided really goes to show that the arrival of Protestantism/Puritanism had a strong influence on food, for a couple of reasons:
(a) It states "Cromwell's tastes were those of a gentleman farmer of the Fens - plain, but robust" - implying that such tastes were already common at least among certain strata of society, before the Puritans came to power.
(b) It's really just about his personal tastes - it doesn't delve into the issue of whether the Puritans influenced the broader population's tastes.
I'll see what I can find in Dorothy Hartley etc., but it does need a better cite, or rephrasing, I think. Barnabypage ( talk) 19:37, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
The puritan ethic originated in the Elizabethan period (See Arthur Dent (Puritan) and a further American reference [ [3]] on wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.35.115.3 ( talk) 20:57, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
In the British cuisine linkbox this goes straight to Balti (food). Are these really synonyms describing the same thing?-- Felix Folio Secundus ( talk) 18:20, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
I am, well, let's say, um - surprised - at this article.
We, the "British" (and for f*ck's sake, why is this linked to "English food"; England <= Britain) have many foods which have originated in 'England': - Cornish Pastie; -Yorkshire thingy; - Something else.
Well, I'm off to have some proper Cheddar cheese (Extra mature. You have no idea what you are missing.)
=Ivor Dudeneay
Nuff said —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.141.29.128 ( talk) 18:48, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
It's just a minor adjustment but I put Cornish cuisine next to Welsh rather than English as traditional Cornish cuisine and culture are much more similar to Welsh than English. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.104.92.224 ( talk) 23:08, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
The first bit of this article, while basically factual, reads terribly. Firstly it seems to be written from a very North American perspective in terms of the myths it proports to debunk, or the stereotypes it remarks on. Shouldn't these be left until later on, once these concepts are introduced? Do you define a culinary culture by how well - or not - it fits one part of the world's traditional view of it? If I compare this article to those written about German cuisine, Czech cuisine, Argentinian cuisine, etc. it becomes strikingly apparant that this article is written for a different audience, one with preconceptions. Facts appear to be chosen more for their curiosity value, or their connection with said preconceptions than with any intention of being encyclopaedic. This reads like a section from an American cookbook on world cuisine.
I've replaced Cheshire cheese with Cornish pasties as an example of regional food. Cheese per se isn't regional and it is typical to name cheeses according to their point of origin - Cheddar, Cheshire, Lancashire, etc, so naming Cheshire here doesn't illustrate the point. Madgenberyl ( talk) 04:27, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
I totally agree with you!! CHH
OK, it's true that the BBC website says that Robin Cook called chicken tikka masala "Britain's true national dish". But the Guardian's transcript of his speech shows that he actually said that it is "a true British national dish". This is not one and the same, since the first seems to imply that chicken tikka masala is the single most typical British national dish rather than one of many. Shouldn't this be amended?-- 91.148.159.4 ( talk) 20:18, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
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The "Modern British Cuisine" section could do with some grounding in reality. I accept that it might be a real thing, but the current description sounds almost meaningless with statements such as "It uses high-quality local ingredients" which sound aspirational rather than factual. And is the section talking about the celebrity chefs mentioned, or British home cooking, or British restaurant food...? -- mcld ( talk) 18:29, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
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Virtually unreadable. Wow, this is a poorly written article. 98.194.39.86 ( talk) 02:15, 10 December 2016 (UTC)
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Reading category is standard in many thousands of Wikipedia historical article. And you are especially useful for people – especially secondary in university students – required to write papers on these topics. They won't get a good grade if they limit themselves to the short Wikipedia article – they need access to a wide range of suitable sources. People not interested can skip it easily enough. The guideline is An optional bulleted list, usually alphabetized, of a reasonable number of publications that would help interested readers learn more about the article subject. Editors may include brief annotations. MOS:FURTHER Rjensen ( talk) 10:48, 4 May 2018 (UTC)
But... where is the Stargazy pie everyone loves to make a fun of? AXONOV (talk) ⚑ 18:35, 8 September 2021 (UTC)
![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Somebody put an opinion piece across very incorrectly here. The BBC claims that Chicken tikka masala is "Britain's true national dish". So the BBC's name needs to be there, there is no evidence that this is majority British opinion and it is clearly bias to present the dish as if it were. Focusing on "take-away culture" is really offensive and is patronising attempt to sell "multiculturalism".
Also Chicken tikka masala was developed in India with the British, when India was an Imperial territory of the British Empire, nothing to do with later Indian settlers in Britain. Again this seems politically motivated, and very left wing in slant. Britain's connection to such cuisine is through the Old Empire. - Arthur Wicket ( talk) 19:31, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
After a quick browse around the web, this is indeed a left-wing stance bias in favour of the political ideology multiculturalism, as it was purportrated by one Robin Cook a high profile politician of the New Labour-period. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2001/apr/19/race.britishidentity
I mean this force feeding a highly politicised statement like that down the throats of millions of Britons and claiming their national dish is Indian take-away, throwing aside fish & chips, sunday roast which are considered by the natives as British cuisine, is a bit much. In Britain, curry houses are marketed as simply "Indian", and people go to "order an Indian" note the majority of people do not think of it as just "British". Just the same as they do when going for a "Chinese", "Mexican" or "Italian". - Arthur Wicket ( talk) 20:12, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
Sure:
http://www.squaremeal.co.uk/restaurants/london/selection/96/Best_Indian http://www.tandoori.co.uk/ http://bits.wikimedia.org/skins-1.5/common/images/button_extlink.png See how it says "Indian" rather than "British-Indian" so your multiculturalist Robin Cook propaganda fails? Now, can you verify that the racist anti-British sentiment of claiming some tacky take-away is the nation dish, isn't a politically charged left-wing bias statement from a left-wing politcian promoting multiculturalism? Why are you trying to stur up hatred and resentment of Indian people by attacking the native cuisine of Britain? - Arthur Wicket ( talk) 11:17, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
Just because you don't agree with a statement doesn't mean it is representative of bias, and I've got to be honest, who is a more reliable source- a large national media organisation or you and your mate Terry down the pub?
Don't use wikipedia to spout your insane ramblings about a "leftist conspiracy" unless you have a verifiable source; you can do that on the Daily Mail website. 92.16.42.207 ( talk) 11:56, 9 January 2011 (UTC)
This is nuts. It's not a political issue, it's really quite straightforward. When the British media picked up on the apparent fact that "Indian" food had become the most popular takeaway food in the country it took the oppportunity for some sensationalist journalism and for a while there was a bit of a debate on whether or not the most popular "Indian" dish should be made the national dish (not that Britain has an official national dish) all very nice attention grabbing headline making stuff but not encyclopaedic on the subject of British cuisine. What is encyclopaedic is the fact that Chicken Tikka masala was actually invented by an Indian immigrant in a curry house in Glasgow, and is therefore British-Inidan cuisine. This is the fact that should be mentioned here, not that the British media like to write about it... If anything that should be a journalism article. Furthermore, if any curry dish deverves a mention in the first paragraph of this article it is Coronation Chicken - the original, notable, Anglo-Indian dish with unquestionably Imperial roots. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.177.170.197 ( talk) 08:16, 28 March 2011 (UTC)
Interesting as it certainly is, I'm not sure the cite provided really goes to show that the arrival of Protestantism/Puritanism had a strong influence on food, for a couple of reasons:
(a) It states "Cromwell's tastes were those of a gentleman farmer of the Fens - plain, but robust" - implying that such tastes were already common at least among certain strata of society, before the Puritans came to power.
(b) It's really just about his personal tastes - it doesn't delve into the issue of whether the Puritans influenced the broader population's tastes.
I'll see what I can find in Dorothy Hartley etc., but it does need a better cite, or rephrasing, I think. Barnabypage ( talk) 19:37, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
The puritan ethic originated in the Elizabethan period (See Arthur Dent (Puritan) and a further American reference [ [3]] on wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.35.115.3 ( talk) 20:57, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
In the British cuisine linkbox this goes straight to Balti (food). Are these really synonyms describing the same thing?-- Felix Folio Secundus ( talk) 18:20, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
I am, well, let's say, um - surprised - at this article.
We, the "British" (and for f*ck's sake, why is this linked to "English food"; England <= Britain) have many foods which have originated in 'England': - Cornish Pastie; -Yorkshire thingy; - Something else.
Well, I'm off to have some proper Cheddar cheese (Extra mature. You have no idea what you are missing.)
=Ivor Dudeneay
Nuff said —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.141.29.128 ( talk) 18:48, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
It's just a minor adjustment but I put Cornish cuisine next to Welsh rather than English as traditional Cornish cuisine and culture are much more similar to Welsh than English. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.104.92.224 ( talk) 23:08, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
The first bit of this article, while basically factual, reads terribly. Firstly it seems to be written from a very North American perspective in terms of the myths it proports to debunk, or the stereotypes it remarks on. Shouldn't these be left until later on, once these concepts are introduced? Do you define a culinary culture by how well - or not - it fits one part of the world's traditional view of it? If I compare this article to those written about German cuisine, Czech cuisine, Argentinian cuisine, etc. it becomes strikingly apparant that this article is written for a different audience, one with preconceptions. Facts appear to be chosen more for their curiosity value, or their connection with said preconceptions than with any intention of being encyclopaedic. This reads like a section from an American cookbook on world cuisine.
I've replaced Cheshire cheese with Cornish pasties as an example of regional food. Cheese per se isn't regional and it is typical to name cheeses according to their point of origin - Cheddar, Cheshire, Lancashire, etc, so naming Cheshire here doesn't illustrate the point. Madgenberyl ( talk) 04:27, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
I totally agree with you!! CHH
OK, it's true that the BBC website says that Robin Cook called chicken tikka masala "Britain's true national dish". But the Guardian's transcript of his speech shows that he actually said that it is "a true British national dish". This is not one and the same, since the first seems to imply that chicken tikka masala is the single most typical British national dish rather than one of many. Shouldn't this be amended?-- 91.148.159.4 ( talk) 20:18, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
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The "Modern British Cuisine" section could do with some grounding in reality. I accept that it might be a real thing, but the current description sounds almost meaningless with statements such as "It uses high-quality local ingredients" which sound aspirational rather than factual. And is the section talking about the celebrity chefs mentioned, or British home cooking, or British restaurant food...? -- mcld ( talk) 18:29, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
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Virtually unreadable. Wow, this is a poorly written article. 98.194.39.86 ( talk) 02:15, 10 December 2016 (UTC)
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Reading category is standard in many thousands of Wikipedia historical article. And you are especially useful for people – especially secondary in university students – required to write papers on these topics. They won't get a good grade if they limit themselves to the short Wikipedia article – they need access to a wide range of suitable sources. People not interested can skip it easily enough. The guideline is An optional bulleted list, usually alphabetized, of a reasonable number of publications that would help interested readers learn more about the article subject. Editors may include brief annotations. MOS:FURTHER Rjensen ( talk) 10:48, 4 May 2018 (UTC)
But... where is the Stargazy pie everyone loves to make a fun of? AXONOV (talk) ⚑ 18:35, 8 September 2021 (UTC)