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How is it that the term "British North America" was first used in 1783, but then the list of members is from 1763? - grubber 04:12, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
I propose that Loyalist Six Colonies of the Nineteen Colonies be merged into this article. 64.231.49.211 03:35, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
The article refers to Continental North America in its first sentence, but goes on to treat the Dominion of Newfoundland as part of British North America. Labrador may be on the continent, but is the island of Newfoundland? Isn't this a conflict? clariosophic 19:51, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
It's not true that "British North America" is only used to describe the British colonies after 1783. A Google Book Search suggests to me that historians use the terms "British North America" and "British America" interchangeably. A couple titles of major academic works show how "British North America" is used to describe the British colonies in North America before 1783, such as Fred Anderson's Crucible of War: The Seven Years' War and the Fate of Empire in British North America 1754–1766, or Bernard Bailyn's The Peopling of British North America. The claim made in this article that there is or was a "formal" distinction between British America and British North America has never been sourced, and may in fact be an Wikipedia invention. Can anyone confirm or deny? — Kevin Myers 19:37, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
British North America existed as a legal title only during the era when their was a position called the Governor General of British North America, however that title was very inconsistanly used. From 1765 to 1840 it was usually the same person as the Governor of Quebec or Lieutenant Governor of Lower Canada. However some GGs seem to have appointed local lieutenants for Lower Canada. James Kempt, perhaps? His article is vauge. From 1841 to 1866 the Governor General's title was changed to "of the Canadas" or "of Canada", and he was responsible for that entire colony with any deputies for the eastern or western halves ( Geroge Aurthur being a short-term exception). After 1867 no one was ever considered to be administering a place called "British North America".
The term British North America remained as a usfull descriptor, however. This is why it was used as the title of Canada's first constitution the BNA Act (1867), and the various amenments to it, which were alled called " British North America Acts". This made sense because Canada was still decidedly British legally and in cultural terms. However the name of the state they created was the Dominion of Canada. Britain also retained possetions in North America that only later joined Canada: NWT (1869), BC (1871), PEI (1873), British Arctic Territories (1880), and Newfoundland (1949), so BNA could be applied to them.
This article should probably not limit itself to the legal usage of the term because the other use (cultural/geographical) was so prevalent and so strong. I proposed re-purposing the article into a page that discussion the various uses of the term, rather than a copy or fork of Canada under British Imperial control, British colonization of the Americas, or the recently created British America (which itself seems to mostly duplicate Thirteen Colonies).-- Kevlar ( talk • contribs) 22:51, 9 February 2010 (UTC)
The definition is a little off: Bermuda is also north of Mexico, but is not listed here.-- Cúchullain t/ c 20:02, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
Does "Turnbull's Folly" count? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Smyrna,_Florida — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.69.62.232 ( talk) 02:48, 5 August 2013 (UTC)
I know this is difficult for some people to understand, but major chages to the article, even to the infobox, need to be discussed. I know the fact the that I reverted these edits at the same time that I reverted the undiscussed merge confused the merger about what I was reverting, but your confusion doesn't make me confused! I knew then, and know now, what I was reverting, and why. Over the past few months, the infobox info, particulary the scope and dates, has been changed sev, eral times without discussion by people who thought there changes were absolutely correct, only to be changed by someone else who thinks there changes are absolutely correct! WHile it's quite obvious they all can't be right, it's less obvious who actually is right. That needs to be discussed here, and settled, if possible, so there will be a consensus the next time someone who is abosulutely sure their changes are correct implements them again. - BilCat ( talk) 22:20, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
If I may interject. None of you obviously read my above comments which is way you are now arguing and talking past each other and really accomplishing nothing. We need to decide in what way we will use the term "BNA" before we can decide what the article should contain. -- Kevlar ( talk • contribs) 07:36, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
As I read this article, the part about florida being ceded to Britain by Spain, then again, by Spain to the USA, with no intervening cessation by Britain to Spain, confused me. I cleaned up the language, and sourced the information with a solid book about the "two" treaties of Paris which led to my confusion. In no way, do I consider this to be a major revision. Simply a cleanup of awkward phrasing. Incidentally the source material is also good fodder for additional citations for the article, so I removed the cite tag as well. K3vin ( talk) 23:07, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
My view:
WayeMason ( talk) 23:39, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
It might be that I'm missing something but why are the only two monarchs in the Info box George III and George V? Was there a 90 year gap when British North America Didn't exist? if no the Box should read Monarchs and Include George IV, Victoria and Edward the VII, If yes then could someone specifically state and source this near the top of the article? Also the top of the Info box says it existed from 1783 until 1907 so surely the Monarchs from 1783 until George III should be there and George V shouldn't be there at all?( Morcus ( talk) 08:35, 27 November 2010 (UTC))
the problem with this is that, if British North America included Rupert's Land and the Columbia District, then the HBC flag should definitely be shown as well...and really the RN's too, because of Esquimalt. The Red Ensign did not fly over the British Pacific Northwest, nor over British Columbia, until 1871 when it joined Canada. BC's flag was the Union Jack - which IMO should be the only flag here. Skookum1 ( talk) 20:19, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
Are the dates connected to the flags in the info-box accurate? If so, why and how did the it come to pass that the British American areas where the Empire was able to defeat the revolutuon and retain after the peace treaty, adopted a slightly altered but incredibly prescient ensign featuring in its canton the flag of Great Britain defaced with St Patricks's Cross a full 18-years before the rest of the Empire would adopt it after the founding of the United Kingdom. I am assuming this is a graphical typo, or quite possibly I maybe wrong due to my own historical ignorance and the redesigned 1783 ensign with a canton featuring a design similar to the 1801 UK Jack is historically accurate. Or perhaps the 1780s was a time when "The Great White North" was just very "fashion forward" when it came to vexillology. -- 99.207.29.228 ( talk) 20:53, 13 December 2011 (UTC)Moi
My reference to the US as a successor state was removed from the infobox with the edit summary "not consistent with the artticle". Can someone give further explanation, because the second paragraph of the article seems to directly say that it includes the thirteen colonies of the US. — Arctic Gnome ( talk • contribs) 00:18, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
I'm confused by the inclusion in the infobox of "Today part of Canada and Commonwealth of Nations". First, in most articles that section is a list of sovereign states that today control the land once occupied by the former country, not a list of intergovernmental organizations. Second, it seems redundant unless there is some part of British North America that is today not part of Canada but is part of the Commonwealth. Third, if we are going to include international organizations in that field, why only the Commonwealth: why not Organization of American States, NATO, or the Francophonie? Sure, Canada's membership in the Commonwealth is more directly a consequence of formally being British North America, but you can't say that its membership in those other organizations is completely unrelated to its 19th Century history. — Arctic Gnome ( talk • contribs) 04:16, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
" Canada under British rule (1763-1867) has grown from being about "Canada" to covering BC and Newfoundland et al........which were not part of the name "Canada" until after 1871 and 1949 respectively.....so the content/context is the same; if it's going to be about all of what's now Canada, it should have the BNA title, no? Skookum1 ( talk) 02:24, 21 May 2013 (UTC)
Historians strongly prefer to use "Britain" or "Great Britain." for example the newest history of WWI is Great Britain's Great War (2014) by Jeremy Paxman. also Matthews, A study in trade-cycle history: economic fluctuations in Great Britain 1833-1842 (Cambridge University Press, 2011); Knowles, The Industrial & Commercial Revolutions in Great Britain During the Nineteenth Century (Routledge, 2013); Long and Ferriea. "Intergenerational occupational mobility in Great Britain and the United States since 1850." The American Economic Review 103.4 (2013): 1109-1137; McQueen, A Social History of Company Law: Great Britain and the Australian Colonies 1854–1920 (Ashgate 2013); Luedtke, "As Far as the Laws of Great Britain Permit: The Effect of British Imperialism on French Canada, and Its Effect on the American Revolution." (PhD 2013); Colley, Captives: Britain, Empire and the World 1600-1850 (2010); Ferguson, Empire: How Britain made the modern world (2012). Rjensen ( talk) 14:48, 16 May 2014 (UTC)
The article states, "In 1775, on the eve of the American Revolution, the British Empire included 20 territories in the Western Hemisphere northeast of New Spain." Bermuda, not listed, was also a British territory in the Western Hemisphere northeast of New Spain, being 400 miles off the coast of North Carolina. The rebellious 13 made an overture to Bermuda to join them in the American Revolution. The Wikipedia article for Bermuda states, "The island was administered as an extension of Virginia by the [Virginia] Company until 1614. Its spin-off, the Somers Isles Company, took over in 1615 and managed the colony until 1684. At that time, the company's charter was revoked, and the English Crown took over administration. The islands became a British colony following the 1707 unification of the parliaments of Scotland and England, which created the Kingdom of Great Britain." Jeff in CA ( talk) 12:52, 13 July 2016 (UTC)
It doesn’t seem like there are many sources and references for this page. The 2 documents that are listed are good, but there could more credible sources. Deezus928 ( talk) 22:09, 28 January 2018 (UTC)
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
Deezus928.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 16:16, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
@ EdwardUK:; @ Rjensen: Following up on the recent changes to the description of London in the infobox - the reason I changed it from "England" to "United Kingdom" is that for the period of British North America covered by the article, England was not a sovereign state. It was a sub-unit of the United Kingdom. Since the name of the nation that controlled British North America was the United Kingdom, London's location should be in the UK. It was the Parliament of the UK, collectively composed of MPs from England, Ireland, Wales and Scotland which had the ultimate legislative power over British North America. London is mentioned as the capital of the UK, not just a city in England. Mr Serjeant Buzfuz ( talk) 07:58, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
Since we have this article covering the area diluting the time in question, I think it would be best if we also placed people in categories using this name, and placed sub-categories for sub-units under this entity in the category for this entity. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 11:28, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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![]() | It is requested that a map or maps be
included in this article to
improve its quality. Wikipedians in North America may be able to help! |
How is it that the term "British North America" was first used in 1783, but then the list of members is from 1763? - grubber 04:12, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
I propose that Loyalist Six Colonies of the Nineteen Colonies be merged into this article. 64.231.49.211 03:35, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
The article refers to Continental North America in its first sentence, but goes on to treat the Dominion of Newfoundland as part of British North America. Labrador may be on the continent, but is the island of Newfoundland? Isn't this a conflict? clariosophic 19:51, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
It's not true that "British North America" is only used to describe the British colonies after 1783. A Google Book Search suggests to me that historians use the terms "British North America" and "British America" interchangeably. A couple titles of major academic works show how "British North America" is used to describe the British colonies in North America before 1783, such as Fred Anderson's Crucible of War: The Seven Years' War and the Fate of Empire in British North America 1754–1766, or Bernard Bailyn's The Peopling of British North America. The claim made in this article that there is or was a "formal" distinction between British America and British North America has never been sourced, and may in fact be an Wikipedia invention. Can anyone confirm or deny? — Kevin Myers 19:37, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
British North America existed as a legal title only during the era when their was a position called the Governor General of British North America, however that title was very inconsistanly used. From 1765 to 1840 it was usually the same person as the Governor of Quebec or Lieutenant Governor of Lower Canada. However some GGs seem to have appointed local lieutenants for Lower Canada. James Kempt, perhaps? His article is vauge. From 1841 to 1866 the Governor General's title was changed to "of the Canadas" or "of Canada", and he was responsible for that entire colony with any deputies for the eastern or western halves ( Geroge Aurthur being a short-term exception). After 1867 no one was ever considered to be administering a place called "British North America".
The term British North America remained as a usfull descriptor, however. This is why it was used as the title of Canada's first constitution the BNA Act (1867), and the various amenments to it, which were alled called " British North America Acts". This made sense because Canada was still decidedly British legally and in cultural terms. However the name of the state they created was the Dominion of Canada. Britain also retained possetions in North America that only later joined Canada: NWT (1869), BC (1871), PEI (1873), British Arctic Territories (1880), and Newfoundland (1949), so BNA could be applied to them.
This article should probably not limit itself to the legal usage of the term because the other use (cultural/geographical) was so prevalent and so strong. I proposed re-purposing the article into a page that discussion the various uses of the term, rather than a copy or fork of Canada under British Imperial control, British colonization of the Americas, or the recently created British America (which itself seems to mostly duplicate Thirteen Colonies).-- Kevlar ( talk • contribs) 22:51, 9 February 2010 (UTC)
The definition is a little off: Bermuda is also north of Mexico, but is not listed here.-- Cúchullain t/ c 20:02, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
Does "Turnbull's Folly" count? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Smyrna,_Florida — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.69.62.232 ( talk) 02:48, 5 August 2013 (UTC)
I know this is difficult for some people to understand, but major chages to the article, even to the infobox, need to be discussed. I know the fact the that I reverted these edits at the same time that I reverted the undiscussed merge confused the merger about what I was reverting, but your confusion doesn't make me confused! I knew then, and know now, what I was reverting, and why. Over the past few months, the infobox info, particulary the scope and dates, has been changed sev, eral times without discussion by people who thought there changes were absolutely correct, only to be changed by someone else who thinks there changes are absolutely correct! WHile it's quite obvious they all can't be right, it's less obvious who actually is right. That needs to be discussed here, and settled, if possible, so there will be a consensus the next time someone who is abosulutely sure their changes are correct implements them again. - BilCat ( talk) 22:20, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
If I may interject. None of you obviously read my above comments which is way you are now arguing and talking past each other and really accomplishing nothing. We need to decide in what way we will use the term "BNA" before we can decide what the article should contain. -- Kevlar ( talk • contribs) 07:36, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
As I read this article, the part about florida being ceded to Britain by Spain, then again, by Spain to the USA, with no intervening cessation by Britain to Spain, confused me. I cleaned up the language, and sourced the information with a solid book about the "two" treaties of Paris which led to my confusion. In no way, do I consider this to be a major revision. Simply a cleanup of awkward phrasing. Incidentally the source material is also good fodder for additional citations for the article, so I removed the cite tag as well. K3vin ( talk) 23:07, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
My view:
WayeMason ( talk) 23:39, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
It might be that I'm missing something but why are the only two monarchs in the Info box George III and George V? Was there a 90 year gap when British North America Didn't exist? if no the Box should read Monarchs and Include George IV, Victoria and Edward the VII, If yes then could someone specifically state and source this near the top of the article? Also the top of the Info box says it existed from 1783 until 1907 so surely the Monarchs from 1783 until George III should be there and George V shouldn't be there at all?( Morcus ( talk) 08:35, 27 November 2010 (UTC))
the problem with this is that, if British North America included Rupert's Land and the Columbia District, then the HBC flag should definitely be shown as well...and really the RN's too, because of Esquimalt. The Red Ensign did not fly over the British Pacific Northwest, nor over British Columbia, until 1871 when it joined Canada. BC's flag was the Union Jack - which IMO should be the only flag here. Skookum1 ( talk) 20:19, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
Are the dates connected to the flags in the info-box accurate? If so, why and how did the it come to pass that the British American areas where the Empire was able to defeat the revolutuon and retain after the peace treaty, adopted a slightly altered but incredibly prescient ensign featuring in its canton the flag of Great Britain defaced with St Patricks's Cross a full 18-years before the rest of the Empire would adopt it after the founding of the United Kingdom. I am assuming this is a graphical typo, or quite possibly I maybe wrong due to my own historical ignorance and the redesigned 1783 ensign with a canton featuring a design similar to the 1801 UK Jack is historically accurate. Or perhaps the 1780s was a time when "The Great White North" was just very "fashion forward" when it came to vexillology. -- 99.207.29.228 ( talk) 20:53, 13 December 2011 (UTC)Moi
My reference to the US as a successor state was removed from the infobox with the edit summary "not consistent with the artticle". Can someone give further explanation, because the second paragraph of the article seems to directly say that it includes the thirteen colonies of the US. — Arctic Gnome ( talk • contribs) 00:18, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
I'm confused by the inclusion in the infobox of "Today part of Canada and Commonwealth of Nations". First, in most articles that section is a list of sovereign states that today control the land once occupied by the former country, not a list of intergovernmental organizations. Second, it seems redundant unless there is some part of British North America that is today not part of Canada but is part of the Commonwealth. Third, if we are going to include international organizations in that field, why only the Commonwealth: why not Organization of American States, NATO, or the Francophonie? Sure, Canada's membership in the Commonwealth is more directly a consequence of formally being British North America, but you can't say that its membership in those other organizations is completely unrelated to its 19th Century history. — Arctic Gnome ( talk • contribs) 04:16, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
" Canada under British rule (1763-1867) has grown from being about "Canada" to covering BC and Newfoundland et al........which were not part of the name "Canada" until after 1871 and 1949 respectively.....so the content/context is the same; if it's going to be about all of what's now Canada, it should have the BNA title, no? Skookum1 ( talk) 02:24, 21 May 2013 (UTC)
Historians strongly prefer to use "Britain" or "Great Britain." for example the newest history of WWI is Great Britain's Great War (2014) by Jeremy Paxman. also Matthews, A study in trade-cycle history: economic fluctuations in Great Britain 1833-1842 (Cambridge University Press, 2011); Knowles, The Industrial & Commercial Revolutions in Great Britain During the Nineteenth Century (Routledge, 2013); Long and Ferriea. "Intergenerational occupational mobility in Great Britain and the United States since 1850." The American Economic Review 103.4 (2013): 1109-1137; McQueen, A Social History of Company Law: Great Britain and the Australian Colonies 1854–1920 (Ashgate 2013); Luedtke, "As Far as the Laws of Great Britain Permit: The Effect of British Imperialism on French Canada, and Its Effect on the American Revolution." (PhD 2013); Colley, Captives: Britain, Empire and the World 1600-1850 (2010); Ferguson, Empire: How Britain made the modern world (2012). Rjensen ( talk) 14:48, 16 May 2014 (UTC)
The article states, "In 1775, on the eve of the American Revolution, the British Empire included 20 territories in the Western Hemisphere northeast of New Spain." Bermuda, not listed, was also a British territory in the Western Hemisphere northeast of New Spain, being 400 miles off the coast of North Carolina. The rebellious 13 made an overture to Bermuda to join them in the American Revolution. The Wikipedia article for Bermuda states, "The island was administered as an extension of Virginia by the [Virginia] Company until 1614. Its spin-off, the Somers Isles Company, took over in 1615 and managed the colony until 1684. At that time, the company's charter was revoked, and the English Crown took over administration. The islands became a British colony following the 1707 unification of the parliaments of Scotland and England, which created the Kingdom of Great Britain." Jeff in CA ( talk) 12:52, 13 July 2016 (UTC)
It doesn’t seem like there are many sources and references for this page. The 2 documents that are listed are good, but there could more credible sources. Deezus928 ( talk) 22:09, 28 January 2018 (UTC)
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
Deezus928.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 16:16, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
@ EdwardUK:; @ Rjensen: Following up on the recent changes to the description of London in the infobox - the reason I changed it from "England" to "United Kingdom" is that for the period of British North America covered by the article, England was not a sovereign state. It was a sub-unit of the United Kingdom. Since the name of the nation that controlled British North America was the United Kingdom, London's location should be in the UK. It was the Parliament of the UK, collectively composed of MPs from England, Ireland, Wales and Scotland which had the ultimate legislative power over British North America. London is mentioned as the capital of the UK, not just a city in England. Mr Serjeant Buzfuz ( talk) 07:58, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
Since we have this article covering the area diluting the time in question, I think it would be best if we also placed people in categories using this name, and placed sub-categories for sub-units under this entity in the category for this entity. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 11:28, 20 May 2024 (UTC)