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When did "British English" become an official title? Being from England, the language is either known as simply English or The Queen's English. "British English" just sounds like something a foreign English speaker has used here. Our language is English or if we're talking about spelling, it is The Queen's English.
"British English" is fairly nonsense anyway, considering the language is ENGLISH, the Scottish and Welsh have their own native languages, and they also make up the island of Great Britain. The Commonwealth speaks English for the same reasons Scotland and Wales do, so the term "Commonwealth English" would make more sense, although still fairly pointless. Hence why we call it English or (for spelling) The Queen's English. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.76.108.90 ( talk) 17:21, 2 April 2007 (UTC).
I'd love it if one of you Wikipedia nerds could explain the origin of this ghastly term. As far as I know it was invented by Microsoft or some other tekkie Yank company. I hardly think 'British English' has entered common parlance as yet. Do us a big favour and rename this article 'English as used in the United Kingdom', would you please?! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.9.121.26 ( talk) 00:02, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
Well said. It is a completely meaningless term.
Yes, I know the name was coined to reflect the differences in the way the language is spoken in different countries, but only the modified versions need a 'tag' to differentiate them, not the original form as well.
French is spoken in various other countries besides France, but we don't hear continental French referred to as 'French French'. Same with Spanish, Dutch, whatever other language you care to pick - the original is not defined in the idiotic manner we see with 'British English'. People defending the use of this term should stop and think about how illogical they are being.
As an English speaker from England, from whence the name is derived, I take exception to the term British English; the term should in fact be International English. This is the language used by most English speaking countries around the world, you know the ones the English taught to read and write when America was virtually unheard of. In fact I believe International English is spoken more widely than the American slant on the language.
The problem with the term is further compounded by the fact that Northern Ireland is an English (that is, non-American) speaking sovereign state of the United Kingdom, not part of Britain, which only includes England, Scotland and Wales.
Therefore there is in fact no such thing as British English, just English (or International English, if you have to use something other than the place the language originated) and American English, which personally I’d rather have termed American due to the differences in the language. But hey (Americanism), since when did the US care about getting history right if it did not benefit them.
The Americans are very proud of their Independence, that is from England, of which they are/were just a colony of English settlers, which have been joined by settlers from around the world. They have corrupted the English Language for their own independent needs, now why not name it according to the country it is the native tongue.
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.165.101.124 ( talk) 18:11, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
Is British English an official term? I have always been taught that it is called Standard English. —Preceding unsigned comment added by The cows want their milk back ( talk • contribs) 19:49, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
Given that Wikipedia has an article on the "last Cornish speaker", I have added a {{cn}} request to the statement "Cornish is also spoken by some people". While here, may I add that the phrase "I do go" for "I go" isn't restricted to Cornwall? As a Moonraker, I can attest that it is a feature of the Wiltshire dialect as well. -- Old Moonraker ( talk) 15:09, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
There has been a discussion for some time at Wikipedia:British_Isles_Terminology_task_force on the use of the phrase "British Isles".
A straw poll has now been called on the outcome of this project, please make your views known. The proposal being polled is shown below. Please vote here.
The straw poll is issued against a background of a number of editors systematically deleting all usage of "British Isles" throughout the site. The manual of style proposal attempts to set some rules to mediate this process.
WHERE TO VOTE Jamesinderbyshire ( talk) 06:27, 13 July 2010 (UTC)
Hi guys, I just got rid of that sentence, since I think it is probably based on someone's opinion rather than on facts. Usually, Canadian English is more similar to American English, and so is the English learned by most non-English speakers. Hope this does't start a "war". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 136.227.197.191 ( talk) 01:07, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
I do not agree with the deletion of that sentence. English is the language of England, not America. Nor is it a baseless international language. British English IS English. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.197.15.138 ( talk) 02:26, 28 May 2011 (UTC)
But then if we were to call our "separate" language American, you'd call foul for forgetting our roots, eh? Venku Tur'Mukan ( talk) 21:10, 20 October 2011 (UTC)
I'm not going down the route of 'American / Australian / Irish English is simply wrong', but British English? Come on...
Lots of people in the US are part Irish, do we call people from Ireland the Irish Irish? Or just the Irish? The Scottish Scots, who speak Scottish Scotch? The American Americans who speak American American?
Calling it British English is in some way implying it's a different variation on the others. The others are, by definition, a variation on English, from England. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Johnheritage ( talk • contribs) 00:47, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
So we stupid Americans know the difference. :P I don't know why it's such a big deal (maybe it's 'cause I'm not British). America has evolved (devolved to some people) in the English language. It's just different now. Venku Tur'Mukan ( talk) 21:04, 20 October 2011 (UTC)
Here is the magic question. What British accent most resembles General American accent? By General American accent it is meant the kind used by most newscasters in America. It is sometimes called "accentless" or "midwestern" because it is neither southern or extreme northern. I could not find the answer to this question. Someone told me that Geordie is the closest accent to general American...but I have my doubts. Others said Yorkshire, others said Cornwall. Can you help? Any ideas? Thanks.
Having lived in the North East for many years, I'd argue against it being closest to the 'Amercian' accent. The majority of Geordie slang and pronunciation stems from Scandinavian languages. Persoanlly I hear little similarity to 'American'.
Well, my grandmother is from Sheffield and parts of her speech are quite american, even after almost 50 years after leaving england, so id say around there would be a fairly close match. And no, i wouldnt consider US to be accentless. If anyone is it would be the poms around london, england had english before the other english speaking countries, or my personal opinion, that us aussies are accentless. Aussies can do english and american accents quite easily, but ive never heard an american or englishman do anything other than their own (We are not AUSSSSSIES), and dont bring up that goose english actor posing as an aussie that was on JAG (Name slips me, but he commited suicide shortly after he was busted as not acutally being an australian. He didnt even sound remotely australian, he sounded like a South African, so im not even sure anyone outside of aus can tell the difference. Squad'nLeedah 23:11, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
ahpook
14:03, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
The american accent isnt accentless, london area acsents are generaly the acsentless part of the english language, rember the name of the language 'english' if american was accentless it would be called american but its called english 84.70.40.32 ( talk) 01:13, 18 October 2008 (UTC) I would say a southern Irish accent is the closest, which would make sense if you think about the scale of historical migration from there to the US. Mjobling
Just so you know, I feel pretty certain that in the U.S., the "neutral" or "accentless" accent would not be called "midwestern." Georgraphically, this "neutral" accent predominates everywhere from the Rocky Mountains west (excepting Hawaii), whereas the Midwest of the U.S. ends at the eastern margin of the Rocky Mountains. Generally speaking, the American midwest has what many people consider a fairly strong accent, and the phrase "midwestern accent" would definitely refer in America to this accent. Most people would probably call "accentless" American speech the "neutral accent"; they might also perhaps go with "California accent" (not to be confused with the surfer accent or Valley girl accent) or "western accent." Ventifact 06:06, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
Back to the British accent closet to the American accent... I think Emma Watson from the Harry Potter movies sounded just like an American. I believe she said she was from Oxfordshire. Also Bono from U2 and Northern Ireland sounds very American. I don't know if their speech accurately reflects their regional accents.
-- Christian Marion 07:20, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
Why is it that when peoples of the British Isles seem to 'lose' their accent and get a more American sounding accent when they sing? Kaiser Matias 03:08 4 July 2005 (UTC)
People might be interested in checking out this reference:
FrancisTyers 15:56, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
This is terrible! I am very disappointed in all of you... I was looking for a guide on Britain's pronounciation/slang and all I got was arguments and extraneous capitalization. Really now, Wikipedia should be a more respectable medium than this. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 128.2.146.37 ( talk • contribs) .
I'm very pleased that this page has been redone, there was clearly a lot of dissatisfaction with it. It seems that in general the issue of the way English is treated on Wikipedia is still not entirely satisfactory to many British people. Neither redirections from " Aubergine" to "Eggplant" nor " Rappalling" to Abseiling seem satisfactory; one wonders whether some more equanimious solutions might be proposed, such as: machine translation, and multiple headwords. I'm currently trying to help expand the American and British English differences sections, which I wonder might be better off presented in a different way, for a variety of reasons discussed on that page. Promsan
Curious, I haven't found a definitive answer regarding whether or not Wikipedia is English (American) or English (British). Sure, wiki was founded in the US but it resides on the .org infrastructure... which could be anything. Things ranging from "color" vs 'colour" to "trousers" vs "pants", since there is no universal spelling, wording, whatever, I don't know if it is ok to RV someones British spelling or word..... what to do?... Binarypower 08:45, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
See Wikipedia:Spelling. I'd say that the mixture of spellings etc. in Wikipedia is a good thing. It's an added educational bonus (seeing the variety, and realising that the different versions are equally "correct"), and it reflects the nature and origin of the project. No straitjacket, please - but do respect the spelling conventions of each article, and keep it in the version of English in which it started. Consistency within an article is desirable, consistency across the whole encyclopaedia is not. Snalwibma 08:49, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
"If an article's subject has a strong tie to a specific region/dialect, it should use that dialect." Thats one reference from the Wikipedia:Spelling policy that I use as a discriminator when I am trying to decide between which dialect to use consistently through an article. The other one is to "If all else fails, consider following the spelling style preferred by the first major contributor (that is, not a stub) to the article." Ansell 23:17, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
English is English, American is wrong, plain and simple. 130.246.132.26 13:06, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
I second that. Im an Australian. I speak english. Colour is spelt with a U, HERBS has the H pronounced, in VEHICLES its SILENT. You cant bastardise a language to suit your own ends and then claim it as a world standard. Please, keep to proper english. Squad'nLeedah 23:17, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
I am an American and I agree with the British. Theirs should be the world standard. However, I have a question for wikipedia: Why are we using American or mixed standard in articles? The football article is unnecessarily subtitled "soccer" despite it being a hated sport in our nation. Now my love calling footy by its proper name aside, doesn't it seem we should have an American English and British English version of wikipedia? Before anyone accuses me of nitpicking, these both have accepted standards in their respective countries, and there is a wikipedia in Simple English... I recognise it would be difficult to convert all English wikipedia articles into two articles, one of each dialect, but I think it would cause a lot less bickering over spelling, word choice, national bias, etc. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dsmccohen ( talk • contribs) 05:25, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
First off this is not a soapbox so stop preaching. Second, since we are still able to communicate, I find the idea of 2 separate sections American English and British English not only unnecessary but a ridiculous waste of space (what, a reprinting of each individual article, with either American or British colloquialisms and spellings thrown in for flavor?). One notices that none of the other language groups have decided to secede from each other, despite one imagines, the fact that they all have their own regional dialects as well with an equal if not greater amount of variation (ex. Spanish spoken by Spaniards, Spanish spoken by Mexicans). Thirdly, what makes one version more correct than the other when both have changed so greatly over the years? And if you say its because the British people have been speaking English longer with an intent of almost giving them a patent to the Language, then realize that that could be turned around, and instead be used to say that "British" English is obsolete with their empire long collapsed and ours (with some rocky bumps) still flourishing (U.S. citizen, by the way). That is not the intent of my writing, to make some kind of claim for American superiority, I simply dislike elitism and detected it in your writings. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Just trying to help ( talk • contribs) 08:30, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
To the Australian Squadnleedah... It can't possibly matter that much to you. If I see "colour" in an article instead of "color," I just know that it means what it means. I might jokingly pronounce it as "cull-oor" at first, but I don't think it's despicable. "Herb" vs "'erb" is still widely varied in the US as far as I know. For the most part, people pronounce "vehicle" with a silent "h" except for some southern citizens. I know that TECHNICALLY American English is "wrong" but it's just evolved (or devolved in your perspective) from the past few centuries of having separated from Europe. I agree entirely with what Just trying to help said. American English is American English and British English is British English. Can't see why it's such a big deal. Just keep it consistent within an article and we're fine. I'm American, if you were wondering (I did have the opportunity to go to Australia as an academic trip and I would have loved to go, but unfortunately, I was unable to attend). I've never seen any attempts to standardize American English. In my opinion, proper English is just keeping it grammatically correct. Oy. People sometimes. Venku Tur'Mukan ( talk) 16:58, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
Atlant: Your revert reintroduced the POV view about Americans. I removed the sentence, as a peace-making gesture. What people think about American English is not, in fact, relevant in that paragraph, and probably not in the article as a whole. (For the record, there is plenty of evidence that many non-Americans think American English is dominant, and plenty of evidence that many non-Americans think some other form is dominant. That issue can go in a different article.) Hyperborean 14:40, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
British English IS English and therefore doesn't need to be labelled "British English. It is just English. It may be called ENGLISH. I thank you. ( 82.40.177.159 14:11, 15 February 2007 (UTC))
Someone says above "If an article's subject has a strong tie to a specific region/dialect, it should use that dialect." Well since, as can be clearly seen from this page, people from the UK do not use the term "British English", I propose this article be renamed English (British) or English (UK). What Americans and others need to understand is that Wikipedia is totally US-biased, everything ends up being writeen from a US POV. "British" can be offensive to Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish, that's something that people from the country that popularized political correctness ought to be able to understand.
British English my backside just because you yanks decided to adapt our language beens that now we don't speak English??? I SPEAK ENGLISH NOT BRITISH ENGLISH 82.36.177.31
Whilst you are right that Wikipedia is US biased (although not as bad as conservapedia) I think that the article name is fine. Although what is the "Longman book of contemporary English" I have never heard of it? ( Elephant53 00:19, 4 March 2007 (UTC))
I think Wahkeenah you are missing the point. No one in Britain speaks 'British English' they write it. All British people speak English with an accent or dialect of English, a small minority speak received pronunciation English but there is no one accent or dialect of English in the British Isles which could be described as spoken British English. Until such time as you can provide an attributable source that claims that people speak British English, please do not revert the change again. -- Philip Baird Shearer 18:25, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
I'd guess you have never been to Britain, or Australia, or New Zealand, or South Africa, because those words would not necessarily identify someone as an inhabitant of the UK and Ireland. If you had been to Britain you would realise that as the article says there are probably larger differences in the way English is spoken in Britain than in any other monoglot English speaking region. -- Philip Baird Shearer 00:35, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
Note the the OED footnote #2 also inculdes the phrase "forms of English". Of course by definition the all the types of English spoken in Britian is British English (just as all the people in Britain are British), but it is more than one version of spoken English, and it is not just accents but dialects as well. However one would be had pressed to argue that there is more than one form of written English in Britain. -- Philip Baird Shearer 17:42, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
I find the term "British English" insulting. I understand the need for English speaking countries to define their own language as a variety of English (such as American English, which I prefer to call Americanish), but "British English" should not be classed as a term in its own right, only a description such as "German car" or "French table". It does not warrant its own page, just as "polish mirror" doesn't. English is English, any other versions of it should be defined, but in Britain we speak English, not "British English". Yevad ( talk) 15:05, 19 July 2011 (UTC)
The article states erroneously that the most common form of English is RP. I quote:
"The most common form of English used by the British ruling class is that originating from southeast England (the area around the capital, London, and the ancient English university towns of Oxford and Cambridge). This form of the language is known as the "Received Standard", and its accent is called Received Pronunciation (RP), which is improperly regarded by many people outside the UK as "the British accent"."
It is anything but common! Suggest a wild hypothesis: change it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.154.38.85 ( talk) 21:38, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
Just think it's a generalisation which needs more thought. -- 86.158.27.3 ( talk) 17:42, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
I've updated it along the lines of the above. Potahto ( talk) 07:30, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
A Request for Comment ( WP:RfC) was posted Sunday, 17 July 2011 at the Talk page of South Sudan. It concerns the use of the definite article ("the") citations in the InfoBox and elsewhere of what the long form is of the country's name. It is my hope to have responses from academically aware editors devoted to Africa, geography, coutries, and British English. Hurmata ( talk) 23:29, 17 July 2011 (UTC)
The terms being used to describe English are in fact wrong. English is a language that developed in and around the British Isles, and should always be known as English. Other countries have decided to adopt the English language and use it as its own. If however a county wants to change the name English to suit its self then it must be completely entitled to do so, such as “American English”. In American English words and meanings differ very much and many times cause much confusion. Regarding the description of original English being called “British English” there is no such language. To try and change the language called “English” to another name is wrong and no one has the right to do so. Today although most English and Americans do understand each other, it is a different language as others have changed certain words away from the original meanings. The difference between English and American English is today also confusing, as many other countries take up learning English as a second language. So it is only correct that the word “British” (in the case of British English) should be removed from this article. It should only say “English” thus referring to original English. -- Raytelford ( talk) 12:31, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
It seems like more care should be taken to differentiate different Englishes in the British Isles. For ex., do the Irish think of themselves as British? Hard to imagine that most of them would. I don't know enough about this topic to make the changes myself; just wanted to note the issue. Hyperborean 07:59, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
The map on this page is misleading see Talk:Scottish_English#Inaccurate_map.
Misleading? I can't even read it! Totnesmartin 03:24, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
Map removed: firstly, the Republic of Ireland uses a different flag to the Union Flag; also the flag is in the background and seems to be affecting the colours in parts of the map, rendering it unclear. Also there's no source for the accent names or boundaries. 109.176.225.252 ( talk) 19:53, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
NOTE: This thread continued in July 2012, down the page, as map (2)
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I have recently come across an article headed:
"July 2009 Ürümqi riots"
I have no argument with the contents, but under what rules is the title permitted? A u with an umlaut is not Chinese, and it's not British English. It seems more to pander to somebody's desire to ensure we have the right phonetics. Or is defined as wikipedia PC? Or has the world decided that foreign place names should be in German?
Perhaps you should consider a new rule that any word which cannot be typed on a standard British Keyboard is, by definition, not "British English". It might be a word in a foreign language, a word in mathematical or phonetic notation or UN speak, but English it ain't. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Drg40 ( talk • contribs) 16:40, 5 July 2010 (UTC)
It makes sense to include the Union Flag at the head of an article on British English.
However, the flag in the illustration has been hoisted upside-down. Reversing the picture will not solve the problem. 109.145.22.224 ( talk) 15:26, 2 May 2012 (UTC)
To the edit warring reverter: THE FLAG IS UPSIDE-DOWN. 109.145.22.224 ( talk) 10:24, 3 May 2012 (UTC)
This is a continuation of a thread up above, but for ease of access I'll start a new thread on it here. This >>> is the map that an IP wants to add to the article. It may or may not (I don't know) be sourced from this random blog - http://englishwithjohn.net/themed-lessons/how-to-fake-a-british-or-american-accent/. Anyway, no other source has been provided, and that source is unreliable. I'll leave it to others, better informed, to comment on its copyright status. I have no idea what scholarly sources, if any, it's based on. Apart from omitting Shetland (and including Ireland - debatable, at least), it seems to show, very roughly, the boundaries of some of the old English regions used administratively by government (which bear no direct relationship to cultural boundaries in some areas), and also some of the county boundaries, with brief lists of some of the accents and/or dialects in each region. In some cases it is grossly misleading. "Welsh" is shown covering the whole of Wales. But the Welsh language has nothing to do with British English, has dialects and accents of its own, and is in any case only spoken by the majority in some parts (not shown) of Wales. The variety of English spoken in north east Wales is very similar to that of Liverpool, for instance - again, not shown - and very different to that spoken in, say, Cardiff. There are gradations of dialect and accent across all parts of England, Scotland and Wales, not lines - again, not shown or even suggested. I'm not a linguist, but the way the dialects and/or accents are shown and listed is confused. Are there really four dialects in the south west - "Anglo-Cornish" (a literary form), "Devonshire" (?!), "Bristolian" and "West Country"? No, there aren't. If there is a map with a scholarly basis showing accents and dialects, freely available, we should use it - but this hotchpotch of inaccurate crap certainly isn't usable here. Ghmyrtle ( talk) 15:28, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
Well people, as the uploader of this map, I take your views. However, I do hope a better map (or maps) to be added. I think the one I mentioned earlier http://www.bl.uk/learning/langlit/sounds/regional-voices/phonological-variation/ is a good one as well. It is a very official and reliable information provided from the official website of the British Library. It also doesn't seperate accents by boundaries-which seems to be problemetic as many people pointed out-but rather shows the distribution of different 'a' sound. I will try to edit it and upload this one too. Anyway, it is happy to see that more peeople are trying to make this page better.. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 175.113.153.131 ( talk) 00:17, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
The article seems to start from the premise that English is the language of England. It even displays a map that shows only variation in England. Add to this a total lack of explicit comment on Scots (yes it's English too!) being (still) heavily influenced by Old West Norse.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Norse#Modern_descendants
RP is an accent an not a dialect and for that is widely regarded as mostly regionless in its nature, so why it shoudl appear in a section headed Regional is bizarre.
The section on glottal stop flies totally in the face of Scottish phonology, and I'd be somewhat surprised if that is an accurate quote of Trudgill within the context of British Isles phonology, but rather more specific to SE England varieties?
This entire article need sto be rewritten by someone who has some real understadning of the subject!
94.197.127.61 ( talk) 10:55, 12 August 2012 (UTC)
User:Lfdder, what is the problem? See Help:Infobox#What should an infobox contain.3F. I'm not going to list the obvious reasons for including an infobox. Rob ( talk) 15:33, 12 September 2013 (UTC)
Hi, I’m Andrew Clark and I work at the Office for National Statistics in the UK.
We publish lots of infographics and I wonder if these ones would be of interest for British_English
FYI, the full gallery, updated weekly, is here < https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Content_created_by_the_Office_for_National_Statistics>
All the best
Andrew Clark (smanders1982) 10 Dec 2013
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 |
When did "British English" become an official title? Being from England, the language is either known as simply English or The Queen's English. "British English" just sounds like something a foreign English speaker has used here. Our language is English or if we're talking about spelling, it is The Queen's English.
"British English" is fairly nonsense anyway, considering the language is ENGLISH, the Scottish and Welsh have their own native languages, and they also make up the island of Great Britain. The Commonwealth speaks English for the same reasons Scotland and Wales do, so the term "Commonwealth English" would make more sense, although still fairly pointless. Hence why we call it English or (for spelling) The Queen's English. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.76.108.90 ( talk) 17:21, 2 April 2007 (UTC).
I'd love it if one of you Wikipedia nerds could explain the origin of this ghastly term. As far as I know it was invented by Microsoft or some other tekkie Yank company. I hardly think 'British English' has entered common parlance as yet. Do us a big favour and rename this article 'English as used in the United Kingdom', would you please?! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.9.121.26 ( talk) 00:02, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
Well said. It is a completely meaningless term.
Yes, I know the name was coined to reflect the differences in the way the language is spoken in different countries, but only the modified versions need a 'tag' to differentiate them, not the original form as well.
French is spoken in various other countries besides France, but we don't hear continental French referred to as 'French French'. Same with Spanish, Dutch, whatever other language you care to pick - the original is not defined in the idiotic manner we see with 'British English'. People defending the use of this term should stop and think about how illogical they are being.
As an English speaker from England, from whence the name is derived, I take exception to the term British English; the term should in fact be International English. This is the language used by most English speaking countries around the world, you know the ones the English taught to read and write when America was virtually unheard of. In fact I believe International English is spoken more widely than the American slant on the language.
The problem with the term is further compounded by the fact that Northern Ireland is an English (that is, non-American) speaking sovereign state of the United Kingdom, not part of Britain, which only includes England, Scotland and Wales.
Therefore there is in fact no such thing as British English, just English (or International English, if you have to use something other than the place the language originated) and American English, which personally I’d rather have termed American due to the differences in the language. But hey (Americanism), since when did the US care about getting history right if it did not benefit them.
The Americans are very proud of their Independence, that is from England, of which they are/were just a colony of English settlers, which have been joined by settlers from around the world. They have corrupted the English Language for their own independent needs, now why not name it according to the country it is the native tongue.
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.165.101.124 ( talk) 18:11, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
Is British English an official term? I have always been taught that it is called Standard English. —Preceding unsigned comment added by The cows want their milk back ( talk • contribs) 19:49, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
Given that Wikipedia has an article on the "last Cornish speaker", I have added a {{cn}} request to the statement "Cornish is also spoken by some people". While here, may I add that the phrase "I do go" for "I go" isn't restricted to Cornwall? As a Moonraker, I can attest that it is a feature of the Wiltshire dialect as well. -- Old Moonraker ( talk) 15:09, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
There has been a discussion for some time at Wikipedia:British_Isles_Terminology_task_force on the use of the phrase "British Isles".
A straw poll has now been called on the outcome of this project, please make your views known. The proposal being polled is shown below. Please vote here.
The straw poll is issued against a background of a number of editors systematically deleting all usage of "British Isles" throughout the site. The manual of style proposal attempts to set some rules to mediate this process.
WHERE TO VOTE Jamesinderbyshire ( talk) 06:27, 13 July 2010 (UTC)
Hi guys, I just got rid of that sentence, since I think it is probably based on someone's opinion rather than on facts. Usually, Canadian English is more similar to American English, and so is the English learned by most non-English speakers. Hope this does't start a "war". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 136.227.197.191 ( talk) 01:07, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
I do not agree with the deletion of that sentence. English is the language of England, not America. Nor is it a baseless international language. British English IS English. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.197.15.138 ( talk) 02:26, 28 May 2011 (UTC)
But then if we were to call our "separate" language American, you'd call foul for forgetting our roots, eh? Venku Tur'Mukan ( talk) 21:10, 20 October 2011 (UTC)
I'm not going down the route of 'American / Australian / Irish English is simply wrong', but British English? Come on...
Lots of people in the US are part Irish, do we call people from Ireland the Irish Irish? Or just the Irish? The Scottish Scots, who speak Scottish Scotch? The American Americans who speak American American?
Calling it British English is in some way implying it's a different variation on the others. The others are, by definition, a variation on English, from England. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Johnheritage ( talk • contribs) 00:47, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
So we stupid Americans know the difference. :P I don't know why it's such a big deal (maybe it's 'cause I'm not British). America has evolved (devolved to some people) in the English language. It's just different now. Venku Tur'Mukan ( talk) 21:04, 20 October 2011 (UTC)
Here is the magic question. What British accent most resembles General American accent? By General American accent it is meant the kind used by most newscasters in America. It is sometimes called "accentless" or "midwestern" because it is neither southern or extreme northern. I could not find the answer to this question. Someone told me that Geordie is the closest accent to general American...but I have my doubts. Others said Yorkshire, others said Cornwall. Can you help? Any ideas? Thanks.
Having lived in the North East for many years, I'd argue against it being closest to the 'Amercian' accent. The majority of Geordie slang and pronunciation stems from Scandinavian languages. Persoanlly I hear little similarity to 'American'.
Well, my grandmother is from Sheffield and parts of her speech are quite american, even after almost 50 years after leaving england, so id say around there would be a fairly close match. And no, i wouldnt consider US to be accentless. If anyone is it would be the poms around london, england had english before the other english speaking countries, or my personal opinion, that us aussies are accentless. Aussies can do english and american accents quite easily, but ive never heard an american or englishman do anything other than their own (We are not AUSSSSSIES), and dont bring up that goose english actor posing as an aussie that was on JAG (Name slips me, but he commited suicide shortly after he was busted as not acutally being an australian. He didnt even sound remotely australian, he sounded like a South African, so im not even sure anyone outside of aus can tell the difference. Squad'nLeedah 23:11, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
ahpook
14:03, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
The american accent isnt accentless, london area acsents are generaly the acsentless part of the english language, rember the name of the language 'english' if american was accentless it would be called american but its called english 84.70.40.32 ( talk) 01:13, 18 October 2008 (UTC) I would say a southern Irish accent is the closest, which would make sense if you think about the scale of historical migration from there to the US. Mjobling
Just so you know, I feel pretty certain that in the U.S., the "neutral" or "accentless" accent would not be called "midwestern." Georgraphically, this "neutral" accent predominates everywhere from the Rocky Mountains west (excepting Hawaii), whereas the Midwest of the U.S. ends at the eastern margin of the Rocky Mountains. Generally speaking, the American midwest has what many people consider a fairly strong accent, and the phrase "midwestern accent" would definitely refer in America to this accent. Most people would probably call "accentless" American speech the "neutral accent"; they might also perhaps go with "California accent" (not to be confused with the surfer accent or Valley girl accent) or "western accent." Ventifact 06:06, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
Back to the British accent closet to the American accent... I think Emma Watson from the Harry Potter movies sounded just like an American. I believe she said she was from Oxfordshire. Also Bono from U2 and Northern Ireland sounds very American. I don't know if their speech accurately reflects their regional accents.
-- Christian Marion 07:20, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
Why is it that when peoples of the British Isles seem to 'lose' their accent and get a more American sounding accent when they sing? Kaiser Matias 03:08 4 July 2005 (UTC)
People might be interested in checking out this reference:
FrancisTyers 15:56, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
This is terrible! I am very disappointed in all of you... I was looking for a guide on Britain's pronounciation/slang and all I got was arguments and extraneous capitalization. Really now, Wikipedia should be a more respectable medium than this. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 128.2.146.37 ( talk • contribs) .
I'm very pleased that this page has been redone, there was clearly a lot of dissatisfaction with it. It seems that in general the issue of the way English is treated on Wikipedia is still not entirely satisfactory to many British people. Neither redirections from " Aubergine" to "Eggplant" nor " Rappalling" to Abseiling seem satisfactory; one wonders whether some more equanimious solutions might be proposed, such as: machine translation, and multiple headwords. I'm currently trying to help expand the American and British English differences sections, which I wonder might be better off presented in a different way, for a variety of reasons discussed on that page. Promsan
Curious, I haven't found a definitive answer regarding whether or not Wikipedia is English (American) or English (British). Sure, wiki was founded in the US but it resides on the .org infrastructure... which could be anything. Things ranging from "color" vs 'colour" to "trousers" vs "pants", since there is no universal spelling, wording, whatever, I don't know if it is ok to RV someones British spelling or word..... what to do?... Binarypower 08:45, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
See Wikipedia:Spelling. I'd say that the mixture of spellings etc. in Wikipedia is a good thing. It's an added educational bonus (seeing the variety, and realising that the different versions are equally "correct"), and it reflects the nature and origin of the project. No straitjacket, please - but do respect the spelling conventions of each article, and keep it in the version of English in which it started. Consistency within an article is desirable, consistency across the whole encyclopaedia is not. Snalwibma 08:49, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
"If an article's subject has a strong tie to a specific region/dialect, it should use that dialect." Thats one reference from the Wikipedia:Spelling policy that I use as a discriminator when I am trying to decide between which dialect to use consistently through an article. The other one is to "If all else fails, consider following the spelling style preferred by the first major contributor (that is, not a stub) to the article." Ansell 23:17, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
English is English, American is wrong, plain and simple. 130.246.132.26 13:06, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
I second that. Im an Australian. I speak english. Colour is spelt with a U, HERBS has the H pronounced, in VEHICLES its SILENT. You cant bastardise a language to suit your own ends and then claim it as a world standard. Please, keep to proper english. Squad'nLeedah 23:17, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
I am an American and I agree with the British. Theirs should be the world standard. However, I have a question for wikipedia: Why are we using American or mixed standard in articles? The football article is unnecessarily subtitled "soccer" despite it being a hated sport in our nation. Now my love calling footy by its proper name aside, doesn't it seem we should have an American English and British English version of wikipedia? Before anyone accuses me of nitpicking, these both have accepted standards in their respective countries, and there is a wikipedia in Simple English... I recognise it would be difficult to convert all English wikipedia articles into two articles, one of each dialect, but I think it would cause a lot less bickering over spelling, word choice, national bias, etc. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dsmccohen ( talk • contribs) 05:25, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
First off this is not a soapbox so stop preaching. Second, since we are still able to communicate, I find the idea of 2 separate sections American English and British English not only unnecessary but a ridiculous waste of space (what, a reprinting of each individual article, with either American or British colloquialisms and spellings thrown in for flavor?). One notices that none of the other language groups have decided to secede from each other, despite one imagines, the fact that they all have their own regional dialects as well with an equal if not greater amount of variation (ex. Spanish spoken by Spaniards, Spanish spoken by Mexicans). Thirdly, what makes one version more correct than the other when both have changed so greatly over the years? And if you say its because the British people have been speaking English longer with an intent of almost giving them a patent to the Language, then realize that that could be turned around, and instead be used to say that "British" English is obsolete with their empire long collapsed and ours (with some rocky bumps) still flourishing (U.S. citizen, by the way). That is not the intent of my writing, to make some kind of claim for American superiority, I simply dislike elitism and detected it in your writings. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Just trying to help ( talk • contribs) 08:30, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
To the Australian Squadnleedah... It can't possibly matter that much to you. If I see "colour" in an article instead of "color," I just know that it means what it means. I might jokingly pronounce it as "cull-oor" at first, but I don't think it's despicable. "Herb" vs "'erb" is still widely varied in the US as far as I know. For the most part, people pronounce "vehicle" with a silent "h" except for some southern citizens. I know that TECHNICALLY American English is "wrong" but it's just evolved (or devolved in your perspective) from the past few centuries of having separated from Europe. I agree entirely with what Just trying to help said. American English is American English and British English is British English. Can't see why it's such a big deal. Just keep it consistent within an article and we're fine. I'm American, if you were wondering (I did have the opportunity to go to Australia as an academic trip and I would have loved to go, but unfortunately, I was unable to attend). I've never seen any attempts to standardize American English. In my opinion, proper English is just keeping it grammatically correct. Oy. People sometimes. Venku Tur'Mukan ( talk) 16:58, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
Atlant: Your revert reintroduced the POV view about Americans. I removed the sentence, as a peace-making gesture. What people think about American English is not, in fact, relevant in that paragraph, and probably not in the article as a whole. (For the record, there is plenty of evidence that many non-Americans think American English is dominant, and plenty of evidence that many non-Americans think some other form is dominant. That issue can go in a different article.) Hyperborean 14:40, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
British English IS English and therefore doesn't need to be labelled "British English. It is just English. It may be called ENGLISH. I thank you. ( 82.40.177.159 14:11, 15 February 2007 (UTC))
Someone says above "If an article's subject has a strong tie to a specific region/dialect, it should use that dialect." Well since, as can be clearly seen from this page, people from the UK do not use the term "British English", I propose this article be renamed English (British) or English (UK). What Americans and others need to understand is that Wikipedia is totally US-biased, everything ends up being writeen from a US POV. "British" can be offensive to Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish, that's something that people from the country that popularized political correctness ought to be able to understand.
British English my backside just because you yanks decided to adapt our language beens that now we don't speak English??? I SPEAK ENGLISH NOT BRITISH ENGLISH 82.36.177.31
Whilst you are right that Wikipedia is US biased (although not as bad as conservapedia) I think that the article name is fine. Although what is the "Longman book of contemporary English" I have never heard of it? ( Elephant53 00:19, 4 March 2007 (UTC))
I think Wahkeenah you are missing the point. No one in Britain speaks 'British English' they write it. All British people speak English with an accent or dialect of English, a small minority speak received pronunciation English but there is no one accent or dialect of English in the British Isles which could be described as spoken British English. Until such time as you can provide an attributable source that claims that people speak British English, please do not revert the change again. -- Philip Baird Shearer 18:25, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
I'd guess you have never been to Britain, or Australia, or New Zealand, or South Africa, because those words would not necessarily identify someone as an inhabitant of the UK and Ireland. If you had been to Britain you would realise that as the article says there are probably larger differences in the way English is spoken in Britain than in any other monoglot English speaking region. -- Philip Baird Shearer 00:35, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
Note the the OED footnote #2 also inculdes the phrase "forms of English". Of course by definition the all the types of English spoken in Britian is British English (just as all the people in Britain are British), but it is more than one version of spoken English, and it is not just accents but dialects as well. However one would be had pressed to argue that there is more than one form of written English in Britain. -- Philip Baird Shearer 17:42, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
I find the term "British English" insulting. I understand the need for English speaking countries to define their own language as a variety of English (such as American English, which I prefer to call Americanish), but "British English" should not be classed as a term in its own right, only a description such as "German car" or "French table". It does not warrant its own page, just as "polish mirror" doesn't. English is English, any other versions of it should be defined, but in Britain we speak English, not "British English". Yevad ( talk) 15:05, 19 July 2011 (UTC)
The article states erroneously that the most common form of English is RP. I quote:
"The most common form of English used by the British ruling class is that originating from southeast England (the area around the capital, London, and the ancient English university towns of Oxford and Cambridge). This form of the language is known as the "Received Standard", and its accent is called Received Pronunciation (RP), which is improperly regarded by many people outside the UK as "the British accent"."
It is anything but common! Suggest a wild hypothesis: change it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.154.38.85 ( talk) 21:38, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
Just think it's a generalisation which needs more thought. -- 86.158.27.3 ( talk) 17:42, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
I've updated it along the lines of the above. Potahto ( talk) 07:30, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
A Request for Comment ( WP:RfC) was posted Sunday, 17 July 2011 at the Talk page of South Sudan. It concerns the use of the definite article ("the") citations in the InfoBox and elsewhere of what the long form is of the country's name. It is my hope to have responses from academically aware editors devoted to Africa, geography, coutries, and British English. Hurmata ( talk) 23:29, 17 July 2011 (UTC)
The terms being used to describe English are in fact wrong. English is a language that developed in and around the British Isles, and should always be known as English. Other countries have decided to adopt the English language and use it as its own. If however a county wants to change the name English to suit its self then it must be completely entitled to do so, such as “American English”. In American English words and meanings differ very much and many times cause much confusion. Regarding the description of original English being called “British English” there is no such language. To try and change the language called “English” to another name is wrong and no one has the right to do so. Today although most English and Americans do understand each other, it is a different language as others have changed certain words away from the original meanings. The difference between English and American English is today also confusing, as many other countries take up learning English as a second language. So it is only correct that the word “British” (in the case of British English) should be removed from this article. It should only say “English” thus referring to original English. -- Raytelford ( talk) 12:31, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
It seems like more care should be taken to differentiate different Englishes in the British Isles. For ex., do the Irish think of themselves as British? Hard to imagine that most of them would. I don't know enough about this topic to make the changes myself; just wanted to note the issue. Hyperborean 07:59, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
The map on this page is misleading see Talk:Scottish_English#Inaccurate_map.
Misleading? I can't even read it! Totnesmartin 03:24, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
Map removed: firstly, the Republic of Ireland uses a different flag to the Union Flag; also the flag is in the background and seems to be affecting the colours in parts of the map, rendering it unclear. Also there's no source for the accent names or boundaries. 109.176.225.252 ( talk) 19:53, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
NOTE: This thread continued in July 2012, down the page, as map (2)
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I have recently come across an article headed:
"July 2009 Ürümqi riots"
I have no argument with the contents, but under what rules is the title permitted? A u with an umlaut is not Chinese, and it's not British English. It seems more to pander to somebody's desire to ensure we have the right phonetics. Or is defined as wikipedia PC? Or has the world decided that foreign place names should be in German?
Perhaps you should consider a new rule that any word which cannot be typed on a standard British Keyboard is, by definition, not "British English". It might be a word in a foreign language, a word in mathematical or phonetic notation or UN speak, but English it ain't. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Drg40 ( talk • contribs) 16:40, 5 July 2010 (UTC)
It makes sense to include the Union Flag at the head of an article on British English.
However, the flag in the illustration has been hoisted upside-down. Reversing the picture will not solve the problem. 109.145.22.224 ( talk) 15:26, 2 May 2012 (UTC)
To the edit warring reverter: THE FLAG IS UPSIDE-DOWN. 109.145.22.224 ( talk) 10:24, 3 May 2012 (UTC)
This is a continuation of a thread up above, but for ease of access I'll start a new thread on it here. This >>> is the map that an IP wants to add to the article. It may or may not (I don't know) be sourced from this random blog - http://englishwithjohn.net/themed-lessons/how-to-fake-a-british-or-american-accent/. Anyway, no other source has been provided, and that source is unreliable. I'll leave it to others, better informed, to comment on its copyright status. I have no idea what scholarly sources, if any, it's based on. Apart from omitting Shetland (and including Ireland - debatable, at least), it seems to show, very roughly, the boundaries of some of the old English regions used administratively by government (which bear no direct relationship to cultural boundaries in some areas), and also some of the county boundaries, with brief lists of some of the accents and/or dialects in each region. In some cases it is grossly misleading. "Welsh" is shown covering the whole of Wales. But the Welsh language has nothing to do with British English, has dialects and accents of its own, and is in any case only spoken by the majority in some parts (not shown) of Wales. The variety of English spoken in north east Wales is very similar to that of Liverpool, for instance - again, not shown - and very different to that spoken in, say, Cardiff. There are gradations of dialect and accent across all parts of England, Scotland and Wales, not lines - again, not shown or even suggested. I'm not a linguist, but the way the dialects and/or accents are shown and listed is confused. Are there really four dialects in the south west - "Anglo-Cornish" (a literary form), "Devonshire" (?!), "Bristolian" and "West Country"? No, there aren't. If there is a map with a scholarly basis showing accents and dialects, freely available, we should use it - but this hotchpotch of inaccurate crap certainly isn't usable here. Ghmyrtle ( talk) 15:28, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
Well people, as the uploader of this map, I take your views. However, I do hope a better map (or maps) to be added. I think the one I mentioned earlier http://www.bl.uk/learning/langlit/sounds/regional-voices/phonological-variation/ is a good one as well. It is a very official and reliable information provided from the official website of the British Library. It also doesn't seperate accents by boundaries-which seems to be problemetic as many people pointed out-but rather shows the distribution of different 'a' sound. I will try to edit it and upload this one too. Anyway, it is happy to see that more peeople are trying to make this page better.. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 175.113.153.131 ( talk) 00:17, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
The article seems to start from the premise that English is the language of England. It even displays a map that shows only variation in England. Add to this a total lack of explicit comment on Scots (yes it's English too!) being (still) heavily influenced by Old West Norse.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Norse#Modern_descendants
RP is an accent an not a dialect and for that is widely regarded as mostly regionless in its nature, so why it shoudl appear in a section headed Regional is bizarre.
The section on glottal stop flies totally in the face of Scottish phonology, and I'd be somewhat surprised if that is an accurate quote of Trudgill within the context of British Isles phonology, but rather more specific to SE England varieties?
This entire article need sto be rewritten by someone who has some real understadning of the subject!
94.197.127.61 ( talk) 10:55, 12 August 2012 (UTC)
User:Lfdder, what is the problem? See Help:Infobox#What should an infobox contain.3F. I'm not going to list the obvious reasons for including an infobox. Rob ( talk) 15:33, 12 September 2013 (UTC)
Hi, I’m Andrew Clark and I work at the Office for National Statistics in the UK.
We publish lots of infographics and I wonder if these ones would be of interest for British_English
FYI, the full gallery, updated weekly, is here < https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Content_created_by_the_Office_for_National_Statistics>
All the best
Andrew Clark (smanders1982) 10 Dec 2013