![]() | A fact from Bridei son of Beli appeared on Wikipedia's
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Is there any evidence to support the statement that he was:
putting himself in a position to attack the Anglian possessions which existed in the far south - Lianachan 14:19, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
How do you know Bridei was born no later than the year 628? What is your source(s)? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Cruithneach ( talk • contribs) .
I was wondering about both conjectural dates (i.e. 616 and 628). The first problem is that the identification of Belin in the AC with Beli of the Harleian genealogies is unconvincing for two reasons: that it is an isolated note of a North British ruler at a time when AC has no other such entries (they start only in '722' with Beli filius Elfin), and that Bartrum (Welsh Classical Dictionary) has another reasonable candidate in Belin of Llyn (who has the advantage of having the same name; i.e. 'Beli' is not the same as 'Belin'). The second problem is that Brude III's recorded intensive military activity falls in 680x685, this would surely be more likely of a war-leader in his 30's or 40's than an elderly ruler in his 50's or 60's. The general picture suggests Brude was about ten years younger than Ecgfrith, and born perhaps around 655x660.
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Henrywgc 15:15, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
This source says his mother was the daughter of Eanfrith of Bernicia. I don't know the evidence (or if it conflicts), but the article now says his mother was probably a daughter of Edwin. Everyking 08:58, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: MOVED. Hadal ( talk) 22:13, 25 March 2023 (UTC)
Bridei III → Bridei son of Beli – Straightforward application of WP:COMMONNAME. Brocher Tam ( talk) 18:51, 18 March 2023 (UTC)
Pretty much all modern reliable sources in English on Pictish history use this form or something very close to it. Examples:
There are a few outliers, eg:
These two are relatively unusual and as well as not being WP:COMMONNAME, would also be less preferred by WP:ENGLISHTITLE
No serious contemporary historian uses the completely anachronistic, fictional and obscure system of regnal numbers for Pictish kings that seems to have become the standard on Wikipedia, such as "Bridei III" here.
This change would obviously not be in conformance with WP:CONSISTENT, as most other Pictish kings (with a few exceptions eg Nechtan mac Der-Ilei) do seem currently to be named with regnal numbers. I am implicitly arguing here that all Pictish kings articles should be renamed to this format, as the same arguments used here are true for them as well. I havn't done a mass page move proposal because:
I am going through these articles and improving them one-by-one, and would suggest moving them as part of that process Brocher Tam ( talk) 18:51, 18 March 2023 (UTC)
![]() | A fact from Bridei son of Beli appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the
Did you know column on 26 January 2006. The text of the entry was as follows:
| ![]() |
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Is there any evidence to support the statement that he was:
putting himself in a position to attack the Anglian possessions which existed in the far south - Lianachan 14:19, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
How do you know Bridei was born no later than the year 628? What is your source(s)? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Cruithneach ( talk • contribs) .
I was wondering about both conjectural dates (i.e. 616 and 628). The first problem is that the identification of Belin in the AC with Beli of the Harleian genealogies is unconvincing for two reasons: that it is an isolated note of a North British ruler at a time when AC has no other such entries (they start only in '722' with Beli filius Elfin), and that Bartrum (Welsh Classical Dictionary) has another reasonable candidate in Belin of Llyn (who has the advantage of having the same name; i.e. 'Beli' is not the same as 'Belin'). The second problem is that Brude III's recorded intensive military activity falls in 680x685, this would surely be more likely of a war-leader in his 30's or 40's than an elderly ruler in his 50's or 60's. The general picture suggests Brude was about ten years younger than Ecgfrith, and born perhaps around 655x660.
--
Henrywgc 15:15, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
This source says his mother was the daughter of Eanfrith of Bernicia. I don't know the evidence (or if it conflicts), but the article now says his mother was probably a daughter of Edwin. Everyking 08:58, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: MOVED. Hadal ( talk) 22:13, 25 March 2023 (UTC)
Bridei III → Bridei son of Beli – Straightforward application of WP:COMMONNAME. Brocher Tam ( talk) 18:51, 18 March 2023 (UTC)
Pretty much all modern reliable sources in English on Pictish history use this form or something very close to it. Examples:
There are a few outliers, eg:
These two are relatively unusual and as well as not being WP:COMMONNAME, would also be less preferred by WP:ENGLISHTITLE
No serious contemporary historian uses the completely anachronistic, fictional and obscure system of regnal numbers for Pictish kings that seems to have become the standard on Wikipedia, such as "Bridei III" here.
This change would obviously not be in conformance with WP:CONSISTENT, as most other Pictish kings (with a few exceptions eg Nechtan mac Der-Ilei) do seem currently to be named with regnal numbers. I am implicitly arguing here that all Pictish kings articles should be renamed to this format, as the same arguments used here are true for them as well. I havn't done a mass page move proposal because:
I am going through these articles and improving them one-by-one, and would suggest moving them as part of that process Brocher Tam ( talk) 18:51, 18 March 2023 (UTC)