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I believe that this may not be legal in some states including in California if this young woman turns out to be a young girl and its a felnoy CALIFORNIA CODES PENAL CODE SECTION 186-186.8. Also many of these image have images of peoples breast. Did they release permission to show their breast? LOL. Just wondering if this is an issue of ownership. Like in girls gone wild they do a background check on each person and I believe they sign away their rights. Some of the girls were not even legal age. Wikipedia doesn't do background check on these images. It says on Child Protection and Obscenity Enforcement Act "2257 Regulations (C.F.R. Part 75)), part of the United States Code of Federal Regulations, require producers of sexually explicit material to attain proof of age for every model they shoot, and keep those records on hand." This information is not open with public domain images. I just think Wikipedia should just be more careful so they don't get sued or challenged legally so maybe old women or mature images maybe okay but not young woman. Getonyourfeet 03:56, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
Can someone explain in plain english what this is all about? 22:35, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
There is a big notice saying discussion of whether the picture should be allowed is available at the given link and then the first thing you do is write a heading saying breast photo not allowed.... Jesus, some people. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 217.38.111.126 ( talk) 20:42, 1 March 2007 (UTC).
I'm feeling a bit perverted even asking this...but why are all the breasts of pregnant women? 4 pictures on here, 2 pregnant, one drawing...why not go the whole nine yards? Srsly. Lulzatron 03:21, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
What's the soviet poster trying to show? I don't find any relation between it and any part of the article. -- Euyyn 07 March 24 - 14:54
It discusses breast health/disease prevention. The Russian says something like "Are you taking care of your breasts? Harden your nipples with daily washing in cold water". Atom 14:43, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
I'm wondering why the article titled Breast deals only with human female breasts? I mean, sure, they are much more interesting than goat breasts or Dave and Dan's breasts, but for NPOV purposes, could we not just give human female's their own breast page? Ideas? Rhetth 02:51, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
This already exists; this article is about humans only, because we're the only ones with this sort of mammary gland. The article on the glands talks more about them as a whole. Or, at least, it should.-- Honeymane Heghlu meH QaQ jajvam 07:08, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
I'd like to know why the first image of the allegedly "pregnant woman's breasts" have a huge breast implant scar along the bottom of the breast? how about changing that to "artificially enhanced female breast," or better yet, get an unaltered breast in there instead? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by King Mongo ( talk • contribs) 07:10, 18 April 2007 (UTC).
Yeah that's pretty much true 72.181.80.237
This article has a lot of excellent support for the functional aspects of breast but I think more could be done on the role they play in women's sexual identities, and another function as a signal to men. The "Cultural Significance" sections touches on this but seems too limited: the content focuses more on how breast are about fertility, or how some societies squelch female power. These are oft discussed themes, but there's an elephant in the room that nobody's written about. This article completely ignores how men and women fixate on breast for their sex appeal. Mattnad 21:54, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
Changed top image to refresh this article BigBoris 11:10, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
Message for administrators. Please add the scn interwiki link: scn:Minna (senu dâ fìmmina). One of the scn adminisrtators. User:Gmelfi.-- Gmelfi 17:25, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
I made some edits which were reverted, and I don't understand why. This was removed from the section on art and culture, where I thought it fitted in well with other legends:
I disambiguated ptosis to ptosis (breasts); I made subject and verb agree in number; etc. The edit summary stated that mine were questionable edits and reverted them, and I do not see why. BrainyBabe 22:51, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
(Removed discussion to sandbox page, where I should have started this thread in the first place. BrainyBabe 16:59, 17 July 2007 (UTC))
The picture of breasts got moved to the plastic surgery section and given the misleading caption "Closeup of female breast with implant and visible scar."
There are no details of plastic surgery on the original photo source's page (flickr), in fact the photographer claims they are "real" (as opposed to augmented). There is no "scar" visible on the breasts, all that can be seen is the indentation left by a bra underwire.
I would edit this shocking mistake out myself, but you don't let not-logged-in untermensch like me edit this page any more; instead, you let editors like "cruzlee" add nonsense to the page because all logged-in editors are infinitely better than not-logged-in ones. 86.131.190.225 17:34, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
There is no evidence that this breast has an implant or scar BigBoris 00:04, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
Have there been any studies into what causes some breasts to grow much larger than others?
Uh, yeah. Genetics. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 214.13.209.200 ( talk) 20:02, August 25, 2007 (UTC)
And pregnancy, and weight Mattnad 21:33, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
So, i was looking on wikipedia to remind me of the name of a certain part of the breast because i think my friend has a lump there- not cause i'm perve! it's the part of the breast that extends into the armpit and its called the "Tail of Spence." (with a c) In the wikipedia article its called "tail of Spense" (with an s) and its highlighted in red, meaning, "no link!" however, i googled it, and google was like "are you sure you didnt mean "Tail of Spence"? with a c? and then when i googled that, it led me to the wikipedia article that DOES exist, on the "Tail of Spence"! And behold! that article is tagged as an orphan, oficially sad, because there are no links to it. could somebody fix this? i think editing the "breast" entry is off limits, plus i am not web savvy enough. i think the typo needs to be fixed, and a link created to the correctly spelled "tail of spence" (with a c) entry. thats all. thanks! Warm182 18:39, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
Apparently people have been complaining about a picture of a supposedly 'underage' womans breasts... Two things.
A. Yes, Wikipedia is hosted in The United States (and 3 or 4 'technically commonwealths' :-) of America. But a picture of (I'll guess those breasts in the top picture are MAYBE from a 16 year) a 16 year olds breasts for use in medical/informative literature and information doesn't exactly constitute child pornography....
Seriously... look in a book on anatomy or one of many books. Notice the pictures of naked babies???. Yeah... it's not child pornography and not defined as 'underage' because it's used for informative and medical purposes without an intention to sexually excite. Yeah yeah yeah... that picture of breasts can excite someone (it sorta excites me). But most anything (shoes, books, people, whatever) can 'excite' and 'arouse' people.
So before we go on a OMG ZXOMG UNDERAGE CHILDPORN NO PREJUSTICE I CAN'T SPELL AND AM A LITLE FJRSGJER crusade... Note that pictures of nudity are often used (outside wikipedia) in medical, anatomical, and otherwise informative literature and media.
B. While it's questionable... seeing if that photo IS below 16. Whether the person could have given consent and/or this, that blah blah blah. Note that for EVERY picture of someone on Wikipedia the consent is not 100% guaranteed. And that really shouldn't matter anyway since it's only a picture of the mammary glands and no really identifying features (birthmarks discluded. But women don't normally go around topless and if they did these accusations of child porn wouldn't have been brought up in the first place.)
So that's my little bit of information on these supposedly 'underage' breasts. So please... unless I'm wrong (and if I am correct me with decent spelling/grammar). Then the topmost picture of t3h b00bs are fine. Nateland 22:08, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
We do not know that the picture that the picture depicts an underage breast. Given that only the breast and a bit of stomach is viewable is impossible to to tell and even then some legal women appear to be underage despite being legally adults. Also breast size and shape is no indicator of the age of a woman due to some adult woman breast remaining very small or retaining characteristics often associated with underage breasts such as puffy nipples. Even if it where indeed an underage woman who's breasts are depicted in the photo it would still be legal to display it in this article. The reason this picture is legal can be seen by looking at the relevant laws that apply directly to Wikipedia regarding child porn. Given that Wikipedia is hosted on servers located in Florida then that means both U.S. federal laws and Florida state laws apply in this case. The relevant federal law is the "TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 110 > § 2256" [1]. Under section 2, subsection B, it reads: (B) For purposes of subsection 8(B) [1] of this section, “sexually explicit conduct” means—
Take note of the bold text. Since the picture neither depicts "lascivious simulated sexual intercourse" nor does it depict "graphic or simulated lascivious exhibition of the genitals or pubic area" (breasts do not qualify as genitals under the legally accepted definition.) it is not illegal. A common misunderstanding is that depictions of mere nudity involving minors are illegal under federal law which is not true. Not as far aa Florida state law is concerned, I point you to the following AP article: [2] which explains how a state judge ruled in 2004 that video of underage girls exposing their breast is not child pornography under state law. -- Cab88 15:13, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
The caption used to read
but now it reads
I don't see the need for the addition. The poster is clearly labelled as historical, and that is its value in an encyclopedia article, to give a perspective not limited to the here and now. It shows that concepts of breast health, and preventive hygiene in its early C20th sense, existed and were promoted. Wikipedia is not a manual for how to do things now. I will delete the phrase unless I can be persuaded of its merit within a day or two. BrainyBabe 20:26, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
I think they should take those photos off. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.205.114.184 ( talk) 13:51, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
A para of summary from article Breast health needs to be written in section health. This should be written in sentences, not merely a list. You are welcome. Subb kelk ( talk) 04:50, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
Does it really need to have female in there? Doesn't pregnant already make it a female by definition? Female is redundant. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.226.105.131 ( talk) 05:34, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
Why is there only one diagran and three pics of nude breast as the eye can see them. There should be pics of breast cancer x rays, a look inside a real boob(not just a drawing), and don't use that not"censored" excuse. If there is a reason to show a pic of round horizontal breast than there is a reason for show the insides of boobs in detail. YVNP 18:20, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
This page focuses entirely on female human breast. I mentioned that it has mostly nude pics of women but I think this is a small portion of a much bigger problem. The entire article focuses on female breasts. This is going to be a hard issue to solve. It is also unacceptable when you consider that the study of male nipples is a very large one that ties into many areas of research. YVNP ( talk) 10:54, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
Very common slangs are not mentioned in article. Since wikipedia is not censored, they should be allowed. That may be offensive, and feminists object it in a high note, but in a free speech encyclopedia they are worth mentioning. Kindly justify removal. Thanks. Watch each other ( talk) 04:19, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
Lcture should be removed unless someone can get the female to verify her age in writing. So 65.34.119.91 has a point. I hope this clears matters up, and I will personally write a letter to wikipedia in regards to this article, or request ISP's banning this article. -- 78.86.117.164 17:51, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
I think this page needs to get better pictures of breasts like from porn stars —Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.161.193.61 ( talk) 04:20, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
or a type of comparing thing- normal versus plastic surgery-- 76.252.42.191 ( talk) 20:51, 4 January 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dreadstar ( talk • contribs)
You's guys are weird, a boob is a boob, whether it's real or fake. You're too far up ur own buttholes; who's gonna care who owns the breast or if it's fake or not??? Nobody, that's who!! You actually think that soemone is gonna complain or moan about the picture? If so, then, my friends, you need to get a life!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.152.249.123 ( talk) 01:11, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
Not worth arguing over —Preceding unsigned comment added by Royyuru ( talk • contribs) 22:58, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
I'm not sure that breast fetishism, mammary intercourse, and breast bondage are appropriate links for this article. These links seem to focus on prurient interests which do not serve to further understanding of the topic. They do relate to the issue of breasts, but not in a way that adds anything useful to an encyclopedic article. 71.244.215.105 ( talk) 04:14, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
Any information linking to sexual acts involving the breast other than standard intercourse is not relevant to this topic if it's truly 'clinical' in nature. This isn't a Kama Sutra, or a medical reference either: not everything has to be covered. I'd hate to say it, but what's the notability of this? It can't be a lot. 66.215.153.240 ( talk) 20:27, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
There seems me that there is absolutely nothing about the sizes of breasts. 1 wit da force ( talk) 23:26, 17 January 2008 (UTC)1 with da force
Which only matters in regard to Women's Clothing, where you can read all about bust sizes. The size of a breast doesn't alter their physiology. 66.215.153.240 ( talk) 20:28, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
A dingbat font called "Mannequin" contains all the most common breast shapes and sizes. The black-and-white vector drawings are anatomically accurate, but much less provocative than photos would be.
The images are available online for free preview, and I (as the author of the font) can give permission for their use on wikipedia pages.
http://www.feelreal.org/fonticon/poster_cups.gif http://www.feelreal.org/fonticon/poster_cups_2.gif http://www.feelreal.org/fonticon/poster_weight.gif http://www.feelreal.org/fonticon/poster_pregnancy.gif —Preceding unsigned comment added by Oligopiste ( talk • contribs) 16:32, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
I still see the "Boobies are the best!" thing at the top of the page, but according to the page history and vandal's talk page, it has been reverted. Why is this happening? 71.186.198.238 ( talk) 01:06, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
It's possible that you're looking at a previous version of the page, or that you need to reload. It's also possible that the vandalism was added again sometime between when you looked at the history and when you looked at the article again. Ketsuekigata ( talk) 03:44, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
I have been looking for the non-vulgar term for a human female breast. "Breast" is not really adequate, because it can also refer to a part of the male body. Same with "bosom." "Mammary" seems only to apply to the milk producing gland within the female breast. Does such a word exist? Are the male and female breasts are too homologous to justify a separate word? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bostoner ( talk • contribs) 23:26, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
"Teat". 66.245.252.98 ( talk) 06:43, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
This article lacks any discussion as to the fact that Europe and Africa have different views on the bare female breast then the U.S., Asia, South America, etc. Europeans allow bare breasts in mainstream TV, magazines, etc. where the U.S. for example would not as well as toplessness at public beaches. African tribal societies have a even more relaxed view of the breasts then Europeans with female toplessness common in some African tribal groups. Probably something that should be added to the article. -- Cab88 ( talk) 01:26, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
Not just that, but all the women that are shown - or the vast majority of them - are Caucasian. Some more diversity would not hurt this article. UberCryxic ( talk) 13:53, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
the caption below the russian picture ends with an exclamtion mark which should be removed. 78.148.69.70 ( talk) 20:23, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:{{{1}}}|{{{1}}}]] ([[User talk:{{{1}}}|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/{{{1}}}|contribs]])
Let's talk this over, you say that not all cultures are exicted by female breasts, but it isn't about culture but biology. The breasts evolved to that size for sexual arousal. Also not all culture allow womanto walk topless shall we get rid of the image of the topless African? Bobisbob ( talk) 02:01, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
I think Busty needs to be moved to Wiktionary rather then redirect to breasts. Busty means big breasted. Im not sure I see where this is explained in the article Im just checking. JasonHockeyGuy ( talk) 02:57, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
I disagree, it should redirect to breasts. Please do not post such dumb things on the talk pages again.-- Jimbo Wales ( talk) 23:57, 30 June 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pontorg ( talk • contribs)
I'm going to guess that Jimbo Wales signature is faked by Pontorg but in case it wasn't. I don't care if you are the founder of wikipedia you should not use such hateful wording with people, just because in your opinion it is "dumb" why not just simply say your opinion without insults and leave it at that? The argument that Busty means big busted and not breast is a valid argument, a man who is flat chested and works out to develop muscles can be busty without breasts. And the response "I disagree" is a non-satisfactory response which holds no reference or scientific reasoning. The reason I believe the Jimbo sig was faked is because it was added by Pontorg, and because Jimbo has said "Here, we are polite, thoughtful, smart, geeky people, trying only to do something which is undoubtably 'good' in the world: write and give away a free encyclopedia." and to be a smart polite person you do not use such hateful language. 71.113.75.227 ( talk) 10:38, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
There needs to be added a detailed scientific study of how or why female breasts are socially seen as a rude, improper or shameful act to be seen in public. A boy hits puberty, and by some unknown means he develops gynecomastia and now has mammary glands and large breasts.. it is legal for him to go without a shirt and people do not talk about him going without a shirt except only to tease him. Some say they find topless men sexy, so what is the scientific reason that it is legal and female breasts in public are not, why is it not talked about when a flat chested male goes topless on film or on the beach but if a female does so it is all over the news? There is nothing nasty, or immoral or weird or sexual about a female chest, or rather, there are equal portions of all that as there are with male chests weather he has gynecomastia or does not.
Basically what I am saying is that it is a natural work of art so why don't people just grow up out of their socially brainwashed mind sets and learn to think logically and for them self. It's just skin, Why the discriminative sexism? people need to open their minds, step outside the brainwashing and look at the bigger picture or at least present a scientifically evident reason for this social behavior.
no one I know can come up with logical or scientific or moral reasons why it is wrong for a female to bare their chest for fun, comfort or breastfeeding a child, and why it is right for a male to bare theirs? and why is it such a big deal that they (males) develop gynecomastia to the point that they must get teased? is it not just an insane opinion of social brainwashing which holds no substance or reason just like racism? And should those who oppose females or males who wish to go topless be charged with hate crimes? 71.113.75.227 ( talk) 09:32, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
the first image from the gallery fits the top of the article better or a illustration of breasts for the top image. Many f the other gallery images are not needed and are just miscellaneous. Yami ( talk) 04:12, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
Yami, I don't appreciate the 3RR warning you put on my talk page. YOU are the one being disruptive. Asher196 ( talk) 04:44, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
I have informed a mod about your actions and we'll see where this goes. And that is a warning so that you don't revert anymore edits and retaliating by posting on my talk page is not appropriate conduct neither is removing the warning from your talk page and calling me a troll. Yami ( talk) 05:30, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
The Gallery Needs to be cleaned up. There are many images that are not educational. The bondage image is not needed, or at least not in this article. There isn't a picture of Feet in bondage on the Foot article why should there be a breast bondage photo on this article?
The show girl with the stars is not needed, the porn star with big implants is half and half, and if we need an image of a cultural view of breast the Himba women are enough.
The nude beach photo does not have the proper public domain stuff and other things. It doesn't even say rather the user the uploaded it was given permission by the women in the photo to use it. Neither does it say rather or not that they know they were photographed.
the pictures "Normal variation in shape", "Woman in brassiere showing cleavage" and "Woman wearing pasties" is a little miscellaneous. the picture of pierced nipples should be under the modification section of the article like circumcision is on the penis article. Yami ( talk) 17:59, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
The only images we need in the gallery are: Image:95C.jpg|Front view of woman's breasts, Image:Breastfeeding-icon-med.svg|International breastfeeding symbol, Image:449px-Manual Breast Pump 2005 SeanMcClean.jpg| Breast pump, Image:Breast self exam 1.jpg|Breast self exam, Image:Mammogram.jpg|Woman undergoing mammogram, and Image:Mammo breast cancer.jpg|Mammography pictures, normal (left) and cancerous (right)
all the other images are overload. Yami ( talk) 00:58, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
Ok everyone give me an idea of what you want
Gallery removed 100% (after all there is no gallery for the penis article or related anatomy)
clean up and/or removal of some images.
No change or little change.
I could go for either removing it 100% or removing certain images. Yami ( talk) 04:30, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I returned the gallery again. Apparently someone put it under a link. We don't censor images on Wikipedia, which is one reason we don't hide them under links. I can see that some people have a perspective, different from mine, that no images, or less images are better. I can agree that too many images is not meaningful or beneficial. Hiding all of the images, or removing all of the gallery images isn't acceptable.
I've been monitoring this and a large number of other sexology and sexuality articles for several years. The Gallery has been fine, and no problem, with no controversy for all of that time. Now, all of a sudden someone wants to make a change. But a sudden change by a couple of editors harms the long standing consensus. If some editor wants to make a radical change then we have to go through a process of building a consensus. The changes need to be communicated on the talk page, discussed, and then made based on the consensus. In the mean time, I would appreciate it if people would leave the gallery alone.
My opinion, as I said before, is that the gallery full of images does no harm. As it has gathered a number of images, it is probably quite likely that it has more images than it really needs to be encylopedic. We aren't at this time anyway, working to build the article to GA or FA status. That means that we need no sudden changes, but small gradual changes that will improve tha article. The number and type of images will be only one factor omong many in improving the article to reacg GA status. The focus of attention, primarily by one editor, on removing images from sexuality articles does not, in my mind, improve the quality of the articles. The rationale for that editor was once that he did not like them, and that we did not want children to see them, and that they were not appropriate, or that they were offensive. Based on rationale to sustain the images by other editors, he has changed his tactics to be more in line with Wikipedia policies, and the stated reasons lately have been that there are too many images, and that an article only needs a few images. The end result is the same. The reason that we have a group of people on Wikipedia who fight against censorship (see Wikipedians against censorship) is because too many new editors don't understand the policies of wikipedia, and think anything involving nudity should be offensive, or other reasons.
SO, in summary, let's discuss how we can improve this article. This includes adding and editing TEXT of the article, as well as paring to make sure that each image is constructive and offers useful information in some way. If eventually we maintain a gallery, it should be of images that add useful secondary images and examples of things discussed in the article. We should, in my opinion, err on the side of too many images, over too few images. Atom ( talk) 13:31, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
If you look at my edits, I am all for editing on the basis of improving the article. Certainly this article could use improvement. My opinion is that constructive edits would be adding more material pertinent to the topic, supported by some of the images in the gallery. The focus of a few editors is on the images though, not on improving the article. Removing the gallery isn't acceptable. I don't agree that remocvng the material makes the article more encylopedic since there is useful and instructive material in the Gallery. Yes, the gallery is to big, and needs to be pared. Our focus should be one improving that as one of many improvements in the article. See the discussion in the next section on what gallery images are beneficial and which ones are not.
I am not claiming that you as an editor are trying to censor. There is another editor whose primary focus is removing images, under the guise of improving the article. Images are not secondary concerns, but incorporated as part of the article. The lede image is one of the most important pieces of GA. Yes, it suppplements the article, bnut is very important. So, it makes no difference if text should predominate. I think we agree that we need more text that constructively adds to the article. Consider some of the images I mentioned in the Gallery section below, they are interesting, but do not fit in any currently existing section in the article. This begs for someone to add a section that discusses the topic, and uses that image to support it. Editors should focus on that type of contribution, not trying to contribute by removing images. That's my opinion. Atom ( talk) 14:28, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
Hiding the Gallery is not censorship. It is a tool to use for people's convince. Who wants their browser window to just keep stretching and stretching until everything loads?
Just like if i was to put the hide code on the talk page it would be just to allow easier navigation so people can see the part they want to see without having to scroll for five minutes to get to where they need.
Use your common sense please, I don't mean to offend but come on It was already explained why the gallery was hidden. Removing it would be censorship in a way but hiding it is only meant as a tool to improve.
We did the same thing in the Kanto (pokemon) talk page because it got so long it took to long to find where the discussion left off. Please do not undo the hide, and it is not a link. Links take you from the current page. Also we only need maybe 4-6 medical images of the cell pictures. I say 2 blue ones and two red ones and/or purple ones. We don't need 18 of them. Yami ( talk) 19:47, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
Wikipedia does not allow sites to be used that are off topic, judgmental or user generated.
Here is their disclaimer.
Disclaimer: Answers to questions should not in anyway be considered as professional advice or used as an alternative to seeking qualified professional help or guidance from your parents or legal guardian. Answers to questions are strictly for educational and entertainment purposes only. If you need professional advice you should consult a qualified professional, health care provider, or doctor. If you need guidance trust the judgement of your parents.
Also many of those "answers" were judgmental
Q Matthew (15-17) asks:
I masturbate 3-4 times a day in private, and maybe once or twice with one or two of my friends. The thing is they only play with themselves once a day, am I normal or am I some kind of sicko?
A Matthew:
Well, as you can read from the other responses, masturbating a few times daily isn't necessarily bad unless it gets in the way of other activities. Now, I assume you don't mean that you masturbate with with your friends every day also? I guess that wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing, but at this point, masturbating 4-6 times per day may be taking time away from other activities. You are probably in the normal range, although most boys don't "circle jerk" that often as they reach their late teens. If you're obsessed with masturbation, or masturbating with your friends, then perhaps you should take up a sport or hobby that will give you something else to do also.
Q Brian (15-17) asks...
When I am in Gym, I take a look around at other boys undressing and I get my penis gets stiff. When we are in the shower, it gets even stiffer. I'm not gay, but why is it doing this?
A Brian:
You're getting erections because it turns you on to see other boys undressing, and it turns you on to show them your own penis. Many people (gay and straight) get turned on by sexuality itself, regardless of the subject. True, you may not be gay, but I wouldn't totally rule it out. You should explore in your head what really does turn you on. And like I mentioned to Ryan, above, perhaps you should consider avoiding putting yourself in that situation.
Those are a few examples. Yami ( talk) 04:11, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
The topic of the article is breasts. I don't see anything above related to that. Perhaps that is your point? Well, I looked at the site, and it seems to be a generalized web site on sex education for teens. There are sections on a number of topics within it, including breast size, female genitals and stages of breasts [4]. I'm not sure who added the link originally, but perhaps one of those sections was the reason. As this is an article on breasts, I suppose it is marginally related. Certainly information on sex for teens looking at the breast article because they have questions about their developing body would be constructive. However, I don't see inclusion of the link as essential.
I am confused as to why you brought up the masturbation topic though, as that doesn't seem relevant. Your stated premise was that it should not be allowed because "Wikipedia does not allow sites to be used that are off topic, judgmental or user generated." And that site does seem to be marginally on topic, if you look at the sections on breasts, rather than the section on masturbation. It doesn't appear to be "judgmental", and it isn't a user generated site. You said that the Masturbation section (unrelated to breasts) demonstrated that someplace on the site it was judgmental. However the text you gave seemed just the opposite of judgmental. The answers were open, honest and accepting. I am guessing that there is something in the asnwers that you may disagree with, and so that may be why you found it to be judgmental? As a sexuality expert, and a parent, I have to say that the answers are pretty much the kind of advice that I would give, or an counselor would give if asked by a teen.
As I said before, "Certainly information on sex for teens looking at the breast article because they have questions about their developing body would be constructive. However, I don't see inclusion of the link as essential." Atom ( talk) 08:57, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
I removed the website based on wikipedia criteria. I only used the masterbation Q&A because i was in a hurry but those were two of at least 5 examples i had listed on Asher's talk page but he kept removing them. There are other sections and the website disclaimer even aknowledges that the answerers are not professional or at least should not be considered so.
A professional would never tell a person to get a hobby and stop jerking it. they also would not say something like "You're getting erections because it turns you on to see other boys undressing, and it turns you on to show them your own penis." Yami ( talk) 14:55, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
What about the "You're getting erections because it turns you on to see other boys undressing, and it turns you on to show them your own penis." part? Yami ( talk) 16:38, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
"You're getting erections because it turns you on to see other boys undressing, and it turns you on to show them your own penis. Many people (gay and straight) get turned on by sexuality itself, regardless of the subject. True, you may not be gay, but I wouldn't totally rule it out. You should explore in your head what really does turn you on. And like I mentioned to Ryan, above, perhaps you should consider avoiding putting yourself in that situation. Credit: J. Geoff Malta, MA, EdM, NCC Adolescent Therapist "
The person answering that question is a trained professional, and explaining his opinion honestly. I think his logic is that if the teen is getting sexually excited (evidenced by getting "stiffer") then it may be because of the reaons he said. There is no impled judgement. Judgement would be if the therapist had said "You are bad for feeling that way." Atom ( talk) 17:35, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
As per the criteria, of course you have read WP:EL I am certain. There is no need for the site to be offically run by professionals. You mentioned that you used the Maturbation section as an example. Well, to meet the criteria, it should be related to the topic of the article. In your haste, you skipped over the useful informaiton on breats in the article, that would have been the appropriate comparison. Atom ( talk) 17:35, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
Anyone can say they're a doctor and the disclaimer shouldn't be there if this is answered by a professional. Doctors should not be so blunt as to say "You're getting erections because it turns you on to see other boys undressing, and it turns you on to show them your own penis." That is judgmental, and to post it for display for people to see isn't proper conduct for a professional.
The site should be 86ed based on its disclaimer alone. If it was truly professional then a disclaimer wouldn't be needed.
Especially since it says the answers are for entertainment.
Just like you need a creditable source to cite articles, you need a creditable site to send people to. I would say number three on WP:ELYES dictates that the website should not be linked to because it isn't Neutral because of the judgmental tones of the article. WP:RS (which WP:ELMAYBE tells what should be considered) dictates that "Articles should rely on reliable, third-party, published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy" Who is checking this "professional"'s accuracy and reliability?
Not to mention the illustrations on the website are crude and unprofessional. Not one internal anatomy illustration can be seen. The site is hosted on a site advertising web hosting which further makes the question on how professional the site is. They might have some true facts but in general the whole site is a prime example of how anyone can have a website.
A .Org or .Gov external site would be a much better replacement. Though there are some creditable .com sites with info on the subject in this article and other articles you have to be careful what you link.
I think we should let this site go and find a new one. I believe a site with professional, crisp clear photos and illustrations would be proper. Don't get me wrong puberty 101 is probably doing their best but a more professional and creditable place to send knowledge seekers is needed. Would you want a 11 year old girl who is suffering growth pains to come to this article and go to the site just to find a Q&A that is no more then entertainment? I don't even think the little girl would know to check the Disclaimer, and would take that quack's advice to heart. Yami ( talk) 19:40, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
Of course, I disagree. A site does not have to be run by a professional to be notable or citeable. I think what you are trying to say is that the link is not a reliable source? The comments you allude to are very objective, and not at all judgmental. Maybe you do not perceive them as professional, but consider that a therapist is going to talk to a teen in the language he understands, not technobabble.
At any rate, isn't this moot point, as no one has objected to your removal of the link? Why are you beating a dead horse? Atom ( talk) 19:44, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
The template at the top of the page says the article is semi-protected ( ), but it is fully protected. − Twas Now ( talk • contribs • e-mail ) 22:20, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
I don't see any mention of breast hair in the article, nor any mention of it on the nipple page either. It is not uncommon for female breasts to have hair on them, especially around the nipple and areola. Some women prefer to remove it. Any reason why this should not be mentioned in the article? The article seems to present a view that all female breasts are hairless, which I suppose if a very americanized and glamourized view. Any thoughts? -- 99.233.145.3 ( talk) 21:48, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
well if you do the research I'm fine with its addition. I admit that's one feature of breast i rather not think to much about no matter how natural it is. at least not on a female anyways. Yami ( talk) 03:32, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
The current main photo seems really inappropriate. It is more an artistic photograph than one which properly depicts breasts. It's shot from a side angle so as to really only show one breast; the other breast is barely seen and blurry. Overall it is not the best choice. A better photo would be directly forward, showcasing both breasts in a more clinical sense. TheGoonSquad ( talk) 04:32, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
Its really funny that this Article have an female's breast picture. Did anybody think that nobody knows how an females breast looks like?? ;D —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.76.49.26 ( talk) 21:34, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
The cat article has an image, but I'm sure that the people who added it didn't think that nobody knows what cats look like. When there is a useful, informative image pertaining to an article's subject, its inclusion is often appropriate for Wikipedia. Please remember that the talk page is an area for discussion of how to improve an article, not for general commentary. Ketsuekigata ( talk) 03:50, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
I think the new pic should be the one on this page: [5] —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hornydude ( talk • contribs) 08:49, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
I feel that this image (Closeup of female breast.jpg) should be replaced in the article. The image has a visible line, which some say is a breast augmentation scar and others say is an indentation left by a bra. I personally think that it's probably an indentation, but in either case, it's a misleading mark and I think it would be better to use a picture of a typical breast without such a visible mark. I feel that the first picture in an encyclopedia article should depict the relevant object as accurately as possible and with as few misleading features as possible. Most of the time, for the majority of the human populace, such (indentation) marks are not typical features of human breasts. 86.56.40.172 ( talk) 08:44, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
Why arent their any pictures of male breasts? This isnt an article about female breasts but breats in general right?-- 76.173.255.40 ( talk) 21:06, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
We have one image of male breasts in the article already. It is in the disease section I think. None of "normal" male breasts. I don't really care for any of the images shown for the article. Atom ( talk) 12:17, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
I am attempting to garner consensous for a change to the picture in the lead of the article. The one in there now http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Closeup_of_female_breast.jpg is blurry and only shows one side of the breasts, whereas the one that I am proposing, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Weibliche_brust_en.jpg is a clear, full frontal view which also labels the various parts. Asarelah ( talk) 18:55, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
I have no objections to a lead photo being artistic and therefore the blurryness and angle do not matter. The breast itself is not blurry and the angle is one that would be seen by a baby! The other two photos are taken for particular purposes, viz, illustrating the changes to breasts during pregnancy and thus are appropriate for such a specific purpose. The current photo is fine for the lead. There, now I have addressed your other points. Cheers! Gillyweed ( talk) 05:45, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
How about this one: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5c/95C.jpg Bobisbob ( talk) 01:36, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
So can the one I suggested be put up? Bobisbob ( talk) 16:48, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
The current photo is more juicy, that's why I like it.-- SummerWithMorons ( talk) 14:27, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
The current image has too many signs which distract from the idea of straightforwardness and neutrality. The angle of the model's body, her raised blouse, the mark on the skin, the ambiguous situation regarding her state (natural, natural and pregnant, augmented, pregnant and augmented), the ambiguous room temperature (is she cold?), the natural lighting, the yellow object, the minimal depth of field, the close proximity of the lens to the subject, the tightness of the focal point in relation to its distance from the top edge of the picture frame. The new image should reflect a general appearance, almost clinical, with a collection of average and plain signs. This image (of all the images at wikimedia) appears the most suitable to me, although the model appears to be standing in her garden, and the photographer seems slightly unaware of the breasts in the context of the body. Redblueball ( talk) 15:45, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
I've replaced the image that contained the errors (for the reasons already mentioned - the awkward angle of the model's body, the shallow depth of field ("fuzziness"), and the mark on the model's breast). The new image is matter of fact, uniformly lit, shot against a neutral background, and the breast is unambiguously natural and unmarked. I've also retitled and numbered the discussions that cover the leading image.
Redblueball (
talk) 18:11, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
I have to say, I'm trying to have an open mind about it, but the new image doesn't look very good. It looks flat and two-dimensional. I would prefer something that looks realistic, say from the front.
Atom (
talk) 18:45, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
The visual representation of things is far from trivial, some even say that a picture is worth a thousand words... I also don't need to remind you that Wikipedia encourages change and improvements to all its content, and that includes the improvement of images. While there is a degree of visual naivete and apathy among some editors of this article for images and image making, a reason exists to employ that encouragement, make edits, and argue the cases for change. So, there appears to be a consensus for changing the lead image, or no consensus for keeping the lead image, or at least a consensus for substituting the lead image on the condition that the replacement is of better quality. Unambiguously, I've uploaded three new images, and propose that we vote on which image in the array (consisting of the new images, the current image, and the images that also appeared on the article this week) is preferred for the lead. Redblueball ( talk) 16:34, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
(outdent):I was actually being facetious when I mentioned the idea of photographing myself. Anyway, I will keep an eye on the commons if anyone uploads a superior picture, and I will suggest them here if anything pops up. Asarelah ( talk) 00:40, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
the current lead image is not appropriate for the top of the article. A better image would either be an illustrated frontal view or the first image from the gallery section which is already up for the position. Yami ( talk) 04:16, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
How did you guys on this article allow the current lead image to be in the first place. Somewhere someone must have added it and that wasn't controversial yet switching it out is? You'd think with so many editors trying to keep the article pure and encyclopedic they would have kept the lead image to retain a medical kind of tone. a Girls Gone wild, or a girlfriend showing her man the goods tone is not appropriate for the article. Yami ( talk) 19:19, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
This is a discussion of the images in the gallery. WHat images in the gallery could be moved into the article, and where? Which images are useful in the gallery as additional examples supporting text in the main article, but not right for that section? Which images are useful, and offering interesting examples of the topic, and which are redundant?
Frankly, looking through the gallery images, I can see very few that are not worth keeping. I can see a number of images that we should write sections of the article for, and include one or more images. That would include Image:ImmodestyBlaizeMEW2007Topless.jpg, Image:Himba ladies.jpg, Image:Nipples after.jpg, Image:Intricate rope breast bondage.jpg, Image:449px-Manual Breast Pump 2005 SeanMcClean.jpg, Image:449px-Manual Breast Pump 2005 SeanMcClean.jpg, and Image:MaxiMounds.jpg, Image:Inflammatory breast cancer.jpg, Image:Mastectomie 02.jpg and possibly others. The histopathology sections are interesting, but there are too many for the article section, maybe choosing one good one for that section would do. Atom ( talk) 13:50, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
There have been a recent discussion here and Skeezix1000 is tending to my point of view in rightly balancing text and images. As a result, they took away the gallery in William Lyon Mackenzie King. In fr:, some admins are currently discussing of the possibility of making commons galleries attractive in designing a new template. This could be added in text sections:
— STAR TREK Man [ Space, the final frontier... 08:29, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
I'd like to discuss what improvements other editors feel can be made to the Gallery images. The consensus has been, in the past, to have a Gallery in this article. Recently a few editors feel that there are more images than necessary. At a glance, I agree that thre are lots of images there, so let's discuss the individual images. Suggestions to "Just remove the whole Gallery" are lazy in my opinion. CLearly there are a number of great images in the Gallery, some of which I mentioned earlier.
Are there images in the Gallery that do not seem to add anything unique?
Are there images that clearly cry out for having a section on the topic, yet not discussed, in the article?
Atom ( talk) 12:48, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
Hiding the Gallery is not censorship. It is a tool to use for people's convince. Who wants their browser window to just keep stretching and stretching until everything loads?
Just like if i was to put the hide code on the talk page it would be just to allow easier navigation so people can see the part they want to see without having to scroll for five minutes to get to where they need.
Use your common sense please, I don't mean to offend but come on It was already explained why the gallery was hidden. Removing it would be censorship in a way but hiding it is only meant as a tool to improve.
We did the same thing in the Kanto (pokemon) talk page because it got so long it took to long to find where the discussion left off. Please do not undo the hide, and it is not a link. Links take you from the current page. Also we only need maybe 4-6 medical images of the cell pictures. I say 2 blue ones and two red ones and/or purple ones. We don't need 18 of them. Yami ( talk) 19:48, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
What others? you're the only one to say its censorship, that is your opinion. It is not censorship like Asher said. You are taking the "Wikipedia does not censor" thing out of context.
Also many of those images are in their own articles. Anything that is in its own article should be removed.
I was for keeping those Himba women in but they are in their own article We can add text that talks about them but a image here and an image in their article is overkill.
We don't need three images to try and show the differences in breast shape. 1 is a medical tone image while the others are magazine article tone and i don't mean a pornographic magazine so don't take that out of context.
The Illustration of saggital section of a human breast image seems a little random so i say get rid of that or put it on the saggital article.
The Diagram showing inframammary fold also seems random and the only reason it shows the inframammary fold it seems is because the person that made it put the word inframammary Fold in bold. Also the arrow looks like it was drawn in MS paint.
The picture of the bra is ok i guess but could be moved into the main article.
Woman wearing pasties is just miscellaneous and doesn't really add to the article. It just seemed to be put there just for the fact it got breast in it, not really to add value to the article about breast. a link to Pasties could be put in the main article but having a picture is a little miscellaneous as i have said. Maybe we could put it in a new section that speaks about accessories or something but right now the image is yeah miscellaneous.
We need a modification or alteration section where we could put the nipple that are pierced. The penis has Circumcision in that section on that article so i'd say this article needs something like that as well.
The breast Shields are miscellaneous.
The breast bondage is in its own article so its overkill to have it in multiple articles like that. We already have a link to breast bondage so no harm no in 86ing it.
Breast feeding symbol needs to be moved to breast feeding section.
Diagram of dissected lactating breast is questionable. I see no lactation (maybe its worded wrong) and it does no good to number stuff if you don't have what the numbers indicate in the article. If it was to be utilized to its fullest then it should be moved to the lactation article or breast feeding article.
Wax cast of a lactating human breast is just miscellaneous. If it was to be utilized to its fullest then it should be moved to the lactation article or breast feeding article.
Breast pump image is 50-50 remove 100% or move to main.
the breast of a pregnant woman is ok i say keep it or if its deemed to fit the article itself more then move it to the article out of the gallery.
15th century torture instrument designed to rip off breasts image is questionable. There is no citation or article that says rather that is what it is. To me it looks like some kind of Fireplace accessory or something used to pick up stuff.
Diagrams of cross sections of breast implants, subglandular (left) and submuscular (right) for me would have to be placed under the cosmetic and alteration section out of the gallery.
The implants i don't know about. There should be a breast implant article. I mean if bondage of the breast has its own article then the artificial growing of them does as well.
The porn star is miscellaneous and she has her own article. Maube mention her but a image isn't really that educational.
The common inferior pedicle breast reduction procedure with final result (red indicates incision lines) should stay with its own article. That whole overkill thing. besides it looks like something doodled in MS paint and not a serious medical illustration. I believe i'll just go ahead and remove that image from this article for now. I'll check into the credibility and other things that makes this notable.
the male with enlarged breast are ok i guess. Hate to say it but when i think breast i think women but they're all technically breast. I think that guy has bigger breast then the chick flashing the camera in the lead image.
Mammogram things i have nothing wrong with, Breast prostheses used by some mastectomy patients though i'm 50-50 on.
Drawing of inflammatory breast cancer is A OK! Maybe i could edit it and make both sides like the unswollen side and we can use that as the lead image. If both sides were the same that would be the kind of tone appropriate for the lead image.
I'll leave you to decide which of the cell stains should go but i say 50% at least 18 is a little much. Yami ( talk) 23:10, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
The following images were recently removed the article without consensus. I am trying to be constructive in discussing the topic as it is irritating to be in the middle of working on discussing the topic, and then have someone remove them without discussion.
Anyway, the following images weere recently removed, and returned again. I can asusme that the editor who removed them did not feel that he liked those images. Let discuss those images then.
Please add your opinion on the following images.
Many of those images are in their own articles. Anything that is in its own article should be removed.
I was for keeping those Himba women in but they are in their own article We can add text that talks about them but a image here and an image in their article is overkill.
We don't need three images to try and show the differences in breast shape. 1 is a medical tone image while the others are magazine article tone and i don't mean a pornographic magazine so don't take that out of context.
The Illustration of saggital section of a human breast image seems a little random so i say get rid of that or put it on the saggital article.
The Diagram showing inframammary fold also seems random and the only reason it shows the inframammary fold it seems is because the person that made it put the word inframammary Fold in bold. Also the arrow looks like it was drawn in MS paint.
The picture of the bra is ok i guess but could be moved into the main article.
Woman wearing pasties is just miscellaneous and doesn't really add to the article. It just seemed to be put there just for the fact it got breast in it, not really to add value to the article about breast. a link to Pasties could be put in the main article but having a picture is a little miscellaneous as i have said. Maybe we could put it in a new section that speaks about accessories or something but right now the image is yeah miscellaneous.
We need a modification or alteration section where we could put the nipple that are pierced. The penis has Circumcision in that section on that article so i'd say this article needs something like that as well.
The breast Shields are miscellaneous.
The breast bondage is in its own article so its overkill to have it in multiple articles like that. We already have a link to breast bondage so no harm no in 86ing it.
Breast feeding symbol needs to be moved to breast feeding section.
Diagram of dissected lactating breast is questionable. I see no lactation (maybe its worded wrong) and it does no good to number stuff if you don't have what the numbers indicate in the article. If it was to be utilized to its fullest then it should be moved to the lactation article or breast feeding article.
Wax cast of a lactating human breast is just miscellaneous. If it was to be utilized to its fullest then it should be moved to the lactation article or breast feeding article.
Breast pump image is 50-50 remove 100% or move to main.
the breast of a pregnant woman is ok i say keep it or if its deemed to fit the article itself more then move it to the article out of the gallery.
15th century torture instrument designed to rip off breasts image is questionable. There is no citation or article that says rather that is what it is. To me it looks like some kind of Fireplace accessory or something used to pick up stuff.
Diagrams of cross sections of breast implants, subglandular (left) and submuscular (right) for me would have to be placed under the cosmetic and alteration section out of the gallery.
The implants i don't know about. There should be a breast implant article. I mean if bondage of the breast has its own article then the artificial growing of them does as well.
The porn star is miscellaneous and she has her own article. Maube mention her but a image isn't really that educational.
The common inferior pedicle breast reduction procedure with final result (red indicates incision lines) should stay with its own article. That whole overkill thing. besides it looks like something doodled in MS paint and not a serious medical illustration. I believe i'll just go ahead and remove that image from this article for now. I'll check into the credibility and other things that makes this notable.
the male with enlarged breast are ok i guess. Hate to say it but when i think breast i think women but they're all technically breast. I think that guy has bigger breast then the chick flashing the camera in the lead image.
Mammogram things i have nothing wrong with, Breast prostheses used by some mastectomy patients though i'm 50-50 on.
Drawing of inflammatory breast cancer is A OK! Maybe i could edit it and make both sides like the unswollen side and we can use that as the lead image. If both sides were the same that would be the kind of tone appropriate for the lead image.
I'll leave you to decide which of the cell stains should go but i say 50% at least 18 is a little much. Also two of the stairs are the same one but different image. Yami ( talk) 23:12, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
You can add your comments in-line with the images, as I have, and that way everyone who participates will keep their comments organizae don an image by image basis. Atom ( talk) 01:35, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
I finished reading your comments, and I see we are in agreement on a number of things. I will take a look again later, focusing on the ones that suggest changes in the article. Those would be easy to focus on right off the bat. I hope that we can get some other people to offer their opinions also. Atom ( talk) 01:38, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
I agree. And it applies for all, imo. Good luck with Atom. Here, images are more important than encyclopedic text contents. :-( I let you deal with that repository. I can't believe the kilo-octets of discussion it produced here. We are not speaking of an article here but of an image bank. What a waste of time and of energy. WP is not intended to be this way. This discussion should be on Commons. My opinion. Still. — STAR TREK Man [ Space, the final frontier... 11:34, 4 August 2008 (UTC)Many of those images are in their own articles. Anything that is in its own article should be removed.
Half of those images are Cut and paste from or to the Breast Cancer article. There is no need to have a gallery that has images in another gallery to a page that connects to the article. We can remove much of the gallery just because its already represented in an adjacent article. A Book wouldn't have a bunch of images then tell you to turn to a certain page just to show you the same images.
any and all images that are currently in use for other articles should be removed to lessen the load on this article and keep it more on topic not subtopic. Yami ( talk) 01:35, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
Well think about it this way. Many of those images are not on topic but on subtopic. Breast Cancer is a subtopic of breast and all those images are in a gallery in the breast cancer article so they are not needed. They make the article bigger then it has to be. Yami ( talk) 02:27, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
Are we going for consensus on this yet? its been 3 days since this discussion left off. I think we can afford to lose the breast cancer images because they're in that article's Gallery.
It'd be the most encyclopedic thing because save for the table of content images, no encyclopedia would just show the same images like that. Yami ( talk) 03:41, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
Click Yami ( talk) 23:28, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
Cool. Great image -- nice find. It has possibilities. The only downside I see is that, of course, we prefer an image of a real person over an illustration. We should add this image to the Gallery for future use. Do we have any existing images that are comparable??
How about this one?
It5s in the gallery and i tried that image and it got removed because it was part of the consensus but i don't remember any rule against using a image that wasn't in the original consensus ats a upgrade so i went and added this one. Its not really a find just a edit of another image where one side showed the breast swollen from cancer.
Yami (
talk) 01:59, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
I don't see where consensus on the current image being used has been made. That image is unencyclopedic Yami ( talk) 02:10, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
"Lots of articles have illustrations. Take a look at Masturbation Autofellatio anal sex al have illustrations few actually have lead images so using a illustration is fine for the time being.
That was taken care of by a admin, and they started the edit war. you are not providing any better reason to why the current lead should stay other then its there and been there for a while. time for a upgrade. and what does the gallery have to do with the lead being replaced? stop jumping between debates. Yami ( talk) 03:49, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
Also you guys stopped discussing the lead image so i say that means its free to replace since no one is discussing it in the lead image 3 section. ive found a better image then what is there so i'm being bold and upgrading the article. Yami ( talk) 03:52, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
Yami: Take a look at this old link [
[12]] There is more in
Archive 3. The point, should it be missed, is that this has all happened before.
Atom (
talk) 04:13, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
What does me indenting or not have to do with the subject being discussed? Yami ( talk) 04:23, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
if you guys won't discuss it up there i'll bring it down here
"the current lead image is not appropriate for the top of the article. A better image would either be an illustrated frontal view or the first image from the gallery section which is already up for the position. Yami (talk) 04:16, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
How did you guys on this article allow the current lead image to be in the first place. Somewhere someone must have added it and that wasn't controversial yet switching it out is? You'd think with so many editors trying to keep the article pure and encyclopedic they would have kept the lead image to retain a medical kind of tone. a Girls Gone wild, or a girlfriend showing her man the goods tone is not appropriate for the article." Yami ( talk) 04:27, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
The lead image is inappropriate for the article i don't care how many times you guys act like it's been decided you guys decided wrong. I think the problem here is to many editors reign over the article to long. How about we just get ride of the lead image and end the entire debate? Yami ( talk) 04:35, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
Yami, I'm glad you mentioned those policies, as I was about to mention one of them myself ( wp:civil). Please read them before you quote them though.
Here is the deal Yami. Honeymane is right in that there was a recent discussion about the lede image. The discussion essentially resolved to make a consensus. We began discussing a potential change in the lede image here in the past day. That is legitimate. If we want to change thye lede, we need to cmplete the discussion. Other people, such as Honeymane, may have chimed in and opposed the change in the lede image. But -- you did not give him or others a chance. You changed the image before letting others respond. If four or five others had jumped in saying that your graphic was a great idea, or that Image95 was their preference, we might have had a consensus that any one editor might have had a hard time with.
I think, perhaps, that part of the issue is that you want to make rapid changes to an article instead of having patience. It could take a number of weeks to propose a change in the lede, and then wait for dicusssion, and then make the change. If you make that change and get away with it on a small article with few interested editors, then your "being bold" works. If it is a hotly contested article, like this one, then it takes more time and patience. Consider that the circumcision article and the female genital cutting article are ten times as hot as this one when it comes to changes.
In the fermale genital cutting article, one editor wantged to change the name of the article, and proposed that on 14 July move. I opposed that change, and there was substantial discussion. Ten different editors discussed and offered their view as supporting or opposing the change. On 31 july an admin closed the survey and move request, judging it as non consensus for changing the article title. The tally was four supporting the name change and six opposing the name change. This was a fairly quick process compared to some.
If you are sincere about changing the lede image in this article, I will start a survey (for you), and we can keep it open for two weeks (or longer if you wish) and you can propose your preference for lede, discuss why you feel that it is the best choice, and try and convince others of that. In the end, we (myself, Honeymane, and everyone else that has been discussing here) will almost certainly support any consensus coming from that survey. Keep in mind it is not a vote. A Consensus is needed. Without a consensus, a number of editors will probably object to a change in the lede image. Let me know how you want to proceed. Atom ( talk) 04:38, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
Yes i want a speedy change because the longer bad info stays the longer people want it to stay. the longer bad info stays the more it hurts the article. Also the discussion was still going on when I came in and you guys wouldn't answer a simple question as to why you guys let that image on here in the first place.
A full frontal view be it real or illustrated is more encyclopedic then a side view of a woman's blurry scared breast where her shirt is lifted up with trees visible in the backdrop and a caption that says she is pregnant yet you see only the breast and not much stomach.
The image should be replaced with a crisp clear picture that is fully in focus and provides a full frontal view. if 95c is not that image then the breast image i provided should be more then enough. The lead image represents the article, what kind of representing is the current lead doing? Yami ( talk) 04:54, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
If you mean this then you sir are lying i edited the breast cancer image to make that today. Yami ( talk) 05:38, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
Do not edit my posts Yami ( talk) 05:46, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
You sir are a lier, all you do is accuse me of this and that
Yami (
talk) 21:00, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
I never seen a rule about it and i never indent and i'm not going to indent. Yami ( talk) 06:22, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
An editor has suggested a change in the lead image. For various reasons he does not find the current image, File:Closeup of female breast.jpg to be appropriate. Two possible images to replace the current Lead image is Image:95C.jpg or Image:Breast Image 289.jpg. I am starting this survey on his behalf to discuss opinions on whether the lead should be used, or another image. If you feel that another image is better, if you could give which lead image you prefer, and explain why.
*'''Support'''
or *'''Oppose'''
, then sign your comment with ~~~~
. Since
polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account
Wikipedia's naming conventions. Comment period to end
August
18
2008.(Useught's comment is on my talk page by the way) Yami ( talk) 18:02, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
upright=1.5
code to magnify it a little?
Image:95C.jpg is small and lacks of all these other great features. —
STAR TREK Man [
Space, the final frontier... 23:35, 4 August 2008 (UTC)"
Star Trek Man" wrote: "Oppose. The current image has a great resolution when you click on it (light, number of details, angle of view, artistical photographic work, the bra adds to it) and yes, it focuses on one nipple (the other blured one should be like the other!). Maybe we should add upright=1.5
code to magnify it a little?
Image:95C.jpg is small and lacks of all these other great features." Comment copied by
User:Redblueball from "Survey on lead image".
Realistic:
1. practical: seeking what is achievable or possible, based on known facts
2. simulating reality: simulating real things or imaginary things in a way that seems real
3. reasonable: not priced or valued too low or high
Encarta ® World English Dictionary © & (P) 1998-2004 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
Any thing that wouldn't be in a Encyclopedia is not suppose to be in wikipedia. A image of Larry the Cable Guy would not be the lead image in John Holmes article because it would be unencyclopedic and UNREALISTIC. People know Larry the cable guy does not have a porn career and did not die from aids.
Dictionaries (or the more expensive ones) have illustrations of the breast in them. It might be crude and no more then line art but both breast are viewed from the front or at least front and side. if you find one with real photos you won't see anything like the lead image.
Encyclopedia that do have pictures do not have Images of slanted blurry outdoors images of breast.
A Medical Journal entry on breast would not have a image of a woman showing her breast for beads at Mardi Gras.
Just because this is not a paper encyclopedia does not mean it shouldn't be treated and kept to the realistic approach of a paper encyclopedia. Yami ( talk) 05:56, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
Have glance at this article http://encarta.msn.com/media_461540234_761575604_-1_1/Human_Female_Breast.html
That's a Web Encyclopedia article with a image that might not be the best but it has the right tone for what a Encyclopedia uses as far as images go. Wikipedia can use real subjects but encyclopedias do not use images like the current lead. Yami ( talk) 07:00, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
another site
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/MEDLINEPLUS/ency/imagepages/1075.htm
Yami ( talk) 07:51, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
Hi. I can't follow anymore the discussion of the Breast article, Im in vacations now and going away from internet for a while. If I have to answer any further, this will be in early September. Cheers and good luck to all in improving the article. The gallery needs to be reduced. At least we agree all on this (?). :) —
STAR TREK Man [
Space, the final frontier... 12:29, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
Well 5.5 want it changed and 4.5 want it to stay if you count the neutral vote as half of a vote to both sides. other wise its 5 in favor of change 4 in favor of keeping the current lead. Yami ( talk) 15:13, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
My count today is four opposed, five support and one neutral. This would be a result of no consensus for changing the image, if the survey were finished. We have until the 18th. Does anyone think that we should get an RFC to draw some more opinions, or will we be satisfied with this result? Let me know, and I will start an RFC. Atom ( talk) 14:15, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
This article is full protected for 3 days due to recent edit warring. — Rlevse • Talk • 23:05, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
Many of the images in the Gallery are already in use in adjacent articles that connect to this article. Some of the images can be moved to adjacent article so that they are not removed from wikipedia entirely.
At least 50% of the images are in the Breast Cancer article in a gallery as well.
To lessen the load on this article and to keep from having replication of materials, I am starting this survey. In doing so I hope to get consensus on making the Gallery a little smaller and helping keep the gallery on topic and not subtopic.
To take part start a new line beginning with *'''Support'''
or *'''Oppose'''
sign your comment with ~~~~
.
For a pacific section of the gallery such as the Brest Cancer Section, indicate it with *'''(Section) + positon'''
:Example:
Because This is the talk page and polls/surveys are no subsitute for discussion please give a reason for your position, Thank you. Comment period to end August 20 2008.
Atom ( talk) 09:11, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
Ok should the image i provided to the gallery be higher up for now until the gallery clean up or should it remain next to the picture that it was edited from? Yami ( talk) 02:32, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
Is it ok if i remove the Breast Cancer section of the gallery since all those images are already in the Breast Cancer Article's own Gallery.
No use in showing the same info on both articles. Yes they're all informational, but they';re also already on another article in the same fashion and both articles connect to each other so its redundant. Yami ( talk) 05:13, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
I don't really think any of the stain images are needed in this article. as for the other two i have no opinion one way or another.
The image I provided which is nothing more then a edit of its twin image could go in the main article. I might even be willing to make a diagram version if and only if it would help the article. No need in providing images that just clutter the article.
I do think the self-breast exam is needed in the article. I've switched out the breast exam link to be in a better place. I also added some sentences about the importance of breast exams and mammograms. Yami ( talk) 21:38, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
So lets be clear, if i, or someone else removed the images that are in the breast cancer article it won't get reverted over and over causing a edit war? Asher is the one who wanted consensus to be made on the gallery all together. Yami ( talk) 23:02, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
you forgot one of the images. Yami ( talk) 19:28, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
Do we need the breast sheild? it seems like it illustrates the same thing as the pierced nipples. Yami ( talk) 07:21, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
Do we need the painted breasts with shield? It is not essential. It would be in the article if there was space (already two images for that section. I think it should stay. It is clearly not redundant with the piercing photo, as it is an image and example of breast painting, and also of a breast shield -- niether of which is illustrated in the article. It should stay, IMO. Atom ( talk) 12:49, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
well if you look closely it is also a peirced nipple pic which could be called redundant, i think we need to get rid of the Pastie picture it seems to be miscellaneous. The himba women i don't know about we already have a in article image talking about cultures with no or few restrictive rules on clothing. Yami ( talk) 03:00, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
Well, yes it is pierced, how else would you keep the shield on? It's benefit is the painting and shield, not the piercing. I think we should keep the Pastie and the Himba too. Again, both unique, interesting and offer something. I pretty much like the Gallery as is. Would like to figure out how to move at least one of them to the article though. Atom ( talk) 03:25, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
The only one i can see going into the article is either the breast feeding symbol or the himba under the other picture. Yami ( talk) 06:56, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
Yes, those are the ones I thought might work someplace to. See if you can find a place to add them. Atom ( talk) 13:10, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
hum? why is the external link Images of female breasts being used?
What educational value does this particular site provide. all it shows is a gallery of breast nothing really worth putting as an external link.
Just a bunch of men and women taking photos and putting them up with their life story underneath. How is this really educational. It seems to me that all it is doing is just showing breast to show breasts I see nothing sexual really to these images except the german girl with water trickling off her beasts. A lot of amateurish photography yes but how is a gallery of breast going educate?
The article need medical reports and articles not random out of nowhere sites.
Yami ( talk) 19:48, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
Oh and i think, but I'm not sure, that the third link is against policy. it seems to be just an advertisement.
I'm going remove it but the other one i'm leaving alone until we can get feedback and discuss it. Yami ( talk)
19:50, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
I believe that this may not be legal in some states including in California if this young woman turns out to be a young girl and its a felnoy CALIFORNIA CODES PENAL CODE SECTION 186-186.8. Also many of these image have images of peoples breast. Did they release permission to show their breast? LOL. Just wondering if this is an issue of ownership. Like in girls gone wild they do a background check on each person and I believe they sign away their rights. Some of the girls were not even legal age. Wikipedia doesn't do background check on these images. It says on Child Protection and Obscenity Enforcement Act "2257 Regulations (C.F.R. Part 75)), part of the United States Code of Federal Regulations, require producers of sexually explicit material to attain proof of age for every model they shoot, and keep those records on hand." This information is not open with public domain images. I just think Wikipedia should just be more careful so they don't get sued or challenged legally so maybe old women or mature images maybe okay but not young woman. Getonyourfeet 03:56, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
Can someone explain in plain english what this is all about? 22:35, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
There is a big notice saying discussion of whether the picture should be allowed is available at the given link and then the first thing you do is write a heading saying breast photo not allowed.... Jesus, some people. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 217.38.111.126 ( talk) 20:42, 1 March 2007 (UTC).
I'm feeling a bit perverted even asking this...but why are all the breasts of pregnant women? 4 pictures on here, 2 pregnant, one drawing...why not go the whole nine yards? Srsly. Lulzatron 03:21, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
What's the soviet poster trying to show? I don't find any relation between it and any part of the article. -- Euyyn 07 March 24 - 14:54
It discusses breast health/disease prevention. The Russian says something like "Are you taking care of your breasts? Harden your nipples with daily washing in cold water". Atom 14:43, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
I'm wondering why the article titled Breast deals only with human female breasts? I mean, sure, they are much more interesting than goat breasts or Dave and Dan's breasts, but for NPOV purposes, could we not just give human female's their own breast page? Ideas? Rhetth 02:51, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
This already exists; this article is about humans only, because we're the only ones with this sort of mammary gland. The article on the glands talks more about them as a whole. Or, at least, it should.-- Honeymane Heghlu meH QaQ jajvam 07:08, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
I'd like to know why the first image of the allegedly "pregnant woman's breasts" have a huge breast implant scar along the bottom of the breast? how about changing that to "artificially enhanced female breast," or better yet, get an unaltered breast in there instead? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by King Mongo ( talk • contribs) 07:10, 18 April 2007 (UTC).
Yeah that's pretty much true 72.181.80.237
This article has a lot of excellent support for the functional aspects of breast but I think more could be done on the role they play in women's sexual identities, and another function as a signal to men. The "Cultural Significance" sections touches on this but seems too limited: the content focuses more on how breast are about fertility, or how some societies squelch female power. These are oft discussed themes, but there's an elephant in the room that nobody's written about. This article completely ignores how men and women fixate on breast for their sex appeal. Mattnad 21:54, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
Changed top image to refresh this article BigBoris 11:10, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
Message for administrators. Please add the scn interwiki link: scn:Minna (senu dâ fìmmina). One of the scn adminisrtators. User:Gmelfi.-- Gmelfi 17:25, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
I made some edits which were reverted, and I don't understand why. This was removed from the section on art and culture, where I thought it fitted in well with other legends:
I disambiguated ptosis to ptosis (breasts); I made subject and verb agree in number; etc. The edit summary stated that mine were questionable edits and reverted them, and I do not see why. BrainyBabe 22:51, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
(Removed discussion to sandbox page, where I should have started this thread in the first place. BrainyBabe 16:59, 17 July 2007 (UTC))
The picture of breasts got moved to the plastic surgery section and given the misleading caption "Closeup of female breast with implant and visible scar."
There are no details of plastic surgery on the original photo source's page (flickr), in fact the photographer claims they are "real" (as opposed to augmented). There is no "scar" visible on the breasts, all that can be seen is the indentation left by a bra underwire.
I would edit this shocking mistake out myself, but you don't let not-logged-in untermensch like me edit this page any more; instead, you let editors like "cruzlee" add nonsense to the page because all logged-in editors are infinitely better than not-logged-in ones. 86.131.190.225 17:34, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
There is no evidence that this breast has an implant or scar BigBoris 00:04, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
Have there been any studies into what causes some breasts to grow much larger than others?
Uh, yeah. Genetics. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 214.13.209.200 ( talk) 20:02, August 25, 2007 (UTC)
And pregnancy, and weight Mattnad 21:33, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
So, i was looking on wikipedia to remind me of the name of a certain part of the breast because i think my friend has a lump there- not cause i'm perve! it's the part of the breast that extends into the armpit and its called the "Tail of Spence." (with a c) In the wikipedia article its called "tail of Spense" (with an s) and its highlighted in red, meaning, "no link!" however, i googled it, and google was like "are you sure you didnt mean "Tail of Spence"? with a c? and then when i googled that, it led me to the wikipedia article that DOES exist, on the "Tail of Spence"! And behold! that article is tagged as an orphan, oficially sad, because there are no links to it. could somebody fix this? i think editing the "breast" entry is off limits, plus i am not web savvy enough. i think the typo needs to be fixed, and a link created to the correctly spelled "tail of spence" (with a c) entry. thats all. thanks! Warm182 18:39, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
Apparently people have been complaining about a picture of a supposedly 'underage' womans breasts... Two things.
A. Yes, Wikipedia is hosted in The United States (and 3 or 4 'technically commonwealths' :-) of America. But a picture of (I'll guess those breasts in the top picture are MAYBE from a 16 year) a 16 year olds breasts for use in medical/informative literature and information doesn't exactly constitute child pornography....
Seriously... look in a book on anatomy or one of many books. Notice the pictures of naked babies???. Yeah... it's not child pornography and not defined as 'underage' because it's used for informative and medical purposes without an intention to sexually excite. Yeah yeah yeah... that picture of breasts can excite someone (it sorta excites me). But most anything (shoes, books, people, whatever) can 'excite' and 'arouse' people.
So before we go on a OMG ZXOMG UNDERAGE CHILDPORN NO PREJUSTICE I CAN'T SPELL AND AM A LITLE FJRSGJER crusade... Note that pictures of nudity are often used (outside wikipedia) in medical, anatomical, and otherwise informative literature and media.
B. While it's questionable... seeing if that photo IS below 16. Whether the person could have given consent and/or this, that blah blah blah. Note that for EVERY picture of someone on Wikipedia the consent is not 100% guaranteed. And that really shouldn't matter anyway since it's only a picture of the mammary glands and no really identifying features (birthmarks discluded. But women don't normally go around topless and if they did these accusations of child porn wouldn't have been brought up in the first place.)
So that's my little bit of information on these supposedly 'underage' breasts. So please... unless I'm wrong (and if I am correct me with decent spelling/grammar). Then the topmost picture of t3h b00bs are fine. Nateland 22:08, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
We do not know that the picture that the picture depicts an underage breast. Given that only the breast and a bit of stomach is viewable is impossible to to tell and even then some legal women appear to be underage despite being legally adults. Also breast size and shape is no indicator of the age of a woman due to some adult woman breast remaining very small or retaining characteristics often associated with underage breasts such as puffy nipples. Even if it where indeed an underage woman who's breasts are depicted in the photo it would still be legal to display it in this article. The reason this picture is legal can be seen by looking at the relevant laws that apply directly to Wikipedia regarding child porn. Given that Wikipedia is hosted on servers located in Florida then that means both U.S. federal laws and Florida state laws apply in this case. The relevant federal law is the "TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 110 > § 2256" [1]. Under section 2, subsection B, it reads: (B) For purposes of subsection 8(B) [1] of this section, “sexually explicit conduct” means—
Take note of the bold text. Since the picture neither depicts "lascivious simulated sexual intercourse" nor does it depict "graphic or simulated lascivious exhibition of the genitals or pubic area" (breasts do not qualify as genitals under the legally accepted definition.) it is not illegal. A common misunderstanding is that depictions of mere nudity involving minors are illegal under federal law which is not true. Not as far aa Florida state law is concerned, I point you to the following AP article: [2] which explains how a state judge ruled in 2004 that video of underage girls exposing their breast is not child pornography under state law. -- Cab88 15:13, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
The caption used to read
but now it reads
I don't see the need for the addition. The poster is clearly labelled as historical, and that is its value in an encyclopedia article, to give a perspective not limited to the here and now. It shows that concepts of breast health, and preventive hygiene in its early C20th sense, existed and were promoted. Wikipedia is not a manual for how to do things now. I will delete the phrase unless I can be persuaded of its merit within a day or two. BrainyBabe 20:26, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
I think they should take those photos off. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.205.114.184 ( talk) 13:51, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
A para of summary from article Breast health needs to be written in section health. This should be written in sentences, not merely a list. You are welcome. Subb kelk ( talk) 04:50, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
Does it really need to have female in there? Doesn't pregnant already make it a female by definition? Female is redundant. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.226.105.131 ( talk) 05:34, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
Why is there only one diagran and three pics of nude breast as the eye can see them. There should be pics of breast cancer x rays, a look inside a real boob(not just a drawing), and don't use that not"censored" excuse. If there is a reason to show a pic of round horizontal breast than there is a reason for show the insides of boobs in detail. YVNP 18:20, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
This page focuses entirely on female human breast. I mentioned that it has mostly nude pics of women but I think this is a small portion of a much bigger problem. The entire article focuses on female breasts. This is going to be a hard issue to solve. It is also unacceptable when you consider that the study of male nipples is a very large one that ties into many areas of research. YVNP ( talk) 10:54, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
Very common slangs are not mentioned in article. Since wikipedia is not censored, they should be allowed. That may be offensive, and feminists object it in a high note, but in a free speech encyclopedia they are worth mentioning. Kindly justify removal. Thanks. Watch each other ( talk) 04:19, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
Lcture should be removed unless someone can get the female to verify her age in writing. So 65.34.119.91 has a point. I hope this clears matters up, and I will personally write a letter to wikipedia in regards to this article, or request ISP's banning this article. -- 78.86.117.164 17:51, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
I think this page needs to get better pictures of breasts like from porn stars —Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.161.193.61 ( talk) 04:20, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
or a type of comparing thing- normal versus plastic surgery-- 76.252.42.191 ( talk) 20:51, 4 January 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dreadstar ( talk • contribs)
You's guys are weird, a boob is a boob, whether it's real or fake. You're too far up ur own buttholes; who's gonna care who owns the breast or if it's fake or not??? Nobody, that's who!! You actually think that soemone is gonna complain or moan about the picture? If so, then, my friends, you need to get a life!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.152.249.123 ( talk) 01:11, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
Not worth arguing over —Preceding unsigned comment added by Royyuru ( talk • contribs) 22:58, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
I'm not sure that breast fetishism, mammary intercourse, and breast bondage are appropriate links for this article. These links seem to focus on prurient interests which do not serve to further understanding of the topic. They do relate to the issue of breasts, but not in a way that adds anything useful to an encyclopedic article. 71.244.215.105 ( talk) 04:14, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
Any information linking to sexual acts involving the breast other than standard intercourse is not relevant to this topic if it's truly 'clinical' in nature. This isn't a Kama Sutra, or a medical reference either: not everything has to be covered. I'd hate to say it, but what's the notability of this? It can't be a lot. 66.215.153.240 ( talk) 20:27, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
There seems me that there is absolutely nothing about the sizes of breasts. 1 wit da force ( talk) 23:26, 17 January 2008 (UTC)1 with da force
Which only matters in regard to Women's Clothing, where you can read all about bust sizes. The size of a breast doesn't alter their physiology. 66.215.153.240 ( talk) 20:28, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
A dingbat font called "Mannequin" contains all the most common breast shapes and sizes. The black-and-white vector drawings are anatomically accurate, but much less provocative than photos would be.
The images are available online for free preview, and I (as the author of the font) can give permission for their use on wikipedia pages.
http://www.feelreal.org/fonticon/poster_cups.gif http://www.feelreal.org/fonticon/poster_cups_2.gif http://www.feelreal.org/fonticon/poster_weight.gif http://www.feelreal.org/fonticon/poster_pregnancy.gif —Preceding unsigned comment added by Oligopiste ( talk • contribs) 16:32, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
I still see the "Boobies are the best!" thing at the top of the page, but according to the page history and vandal's talk page, it has been reverted. Why is this happening? 71.186.198.238 ( talk) 01:06, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
It's possible that you're looking at a previous version of the page, or that you need to reload. It's also possible that the vandalism was added again sometime between when you looked at the history and when you looked at the article again. Ketsuekigata ( talk) 03:44, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
I have been looking for the non-vulgar term for a human female breast. "Breast" is not really adequate, because it can also refer to a part of the male body. Same with "bosom." "Mammary" seems only to apply to the milk producing gland within the female breast. Does such a word exist? Are the male and female breasts are too homologous to justify a separate word? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bostoner ( talk • contribs) 23:26, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
"Teat". 66.245.252.98 ( talk) 06:43, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
This article lacks any discussion as to the fact that Europe and Africa have different views on the bare female breast then the U.S., Asia, South America, etc. Europeans allow bare breasts in mainstream TV, magazines, etc. where the U.S. for example would not as well as toplessness at public beaches. African tribal societies have a even more relaxed view of the breasts then Europeans with female toplessness common in some African tribal groups. Probably something that should be added to the article. -- Cab88 ( talk) 01:26, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
Not just that, but all the women that are shown - or the vast majority of them - are Caucasian. Some more diversity would not hurt this article. UberCryxic ( talk) 13:53, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
the caption below the russian picture ends with an exclamtion mark which should be removed. 78.148.69.70 ( talk) 20:23, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:{{{1}}}|{{{1}}}]] ([[User talk:{{{1}}}|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/{{{1}}}|contribs]])
Let's talk this over, you say that not all cultures are exicted by female breasts, but it isn't about culture but biology. The breasts evolved to that size for sexual arousal. Also not all culture allow womanto walk topless shall we get rid of the image of the topless African? Bobisbob ( talk) 02:01, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
I think Busty needs to be moved to Wiktionary rather then redirect to breasts. Busty means big breasted. Im not sure I see where this is explained in the article Im just checking. JasonHockeyGuy ( talk) 02:57, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
I disagree, it should redirect to breasts. Please do not post such dumb things on the talk pages again.-- Jimbo Wales ( talk) 23:57, 30 June 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pontorg ( talk • contribs)
I'm going to guess that Jimbo Wales signature is faked by Pontorg but in case it wasn't. I don't care if you are the founder of wikipedia you should not use such hateful wording with people, just because in your opinion it is "dumb" why not just simply say your opinion without insults and leave it at that? The argument that Busty means big busted and not breast is a valid argument, a man who is flat chested and works out to develop muscles can be busty without breasts. And the response "I disagree" is a non-satisfactory response which holds no reference or scientific reasoning. The reason I believe the Jimbo sig was faked is because it was added by Pontorg, and because Jimbo has said "Here, we are polite, thoughtful, smart, geeky people, trying only to do something which is undoubtably 'good' in the world: write and give away a free encyclopedia." and to be a smart polite person you do not use such hateful language. 71.113.75.227 ( talk) 10:38, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
There needs to be added a detailed scientific study of how or why female breasts are socially seen as a rude, improper or shameful act to be seen in public. A boy hits puberty, and by some unknown means he develops gynecomastia and now has mammary glands and large breasts.. it is legal for him to go without a shirt and people do not talk about him going without a shirt except only to tease him. Some say they find topless men sexy, so what is the scientific reason that it is legal and female breasts in public are not, why is it not talked about when a flat chested male goes topless on film or on the beach but if a female does so it is all over the news? There is nothing nasty, or immoral or weird or sexual about a female chest, or rather, there are equal portions of all that as there are with male chests weather he has gynecomastia or does not.
Basically what I am saying is that it is a natural work of art so why don't people just grow up out of their socially brainwashed mind sets and learn to think logically and for them self. It's just skin, Why the discriminative sexism? people need to open their minds, step outside the brainwashing and look at the bigger picture or at least present a scientifically evident reason for this social behavior.
no one I know can come up with logical or scientific or moral reasons why it is wrong for a female to bare their chest for fun, comfort or breastfeeding a child, and why it is right for a male to bare theirs? and why is it such a big deal that they (males) develop gynecomastia to the point that they must get teased? is it not just an insane opinion of social brainwashing which holds no substance or reason just like racism? And should those who oppose females or males who wish to go topless be charged with hate crimes? 71.113.75.227 ( talk) 09:32, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
the first image from the gallery fits the top of the article better or a illustration of breasts for the top image. Many f the other gallery images are not needed and are just miscellaneous. Yami ( talk) 04:12, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
Yami, I don't appreciate the 3RR warning you put on my talk page. YOU are the one being disruptive. Asher196 ( talk) 04:44, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
I have informed a mod about your actions and we'll see where this goes. And that is a warning so that you don't revert anymore edits and retaliating by posting on my talk page is not appropriate conduct neither is removing the warning from your talk page and calling me a troll. Yami ( talk) 05:30, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
The Gallery Needs to be cleaned up. There are many images that are not educational. The bondage image is not needed, or at least not in this article. There isn't a picture of Feet in bondage on the Foot article why should there be a breast bondage photo on this article?
The show girl with the stars is not needed, the porn star with big implants is half and half, and if we need an image of a cultural view of breast the Himba women are enough.
The nude beach photo does not have the proper public domain stuff and other things. It doesn't even say rather the user the uploaded it was given permission by the women in the photo to use it. Neither does it say rather or not that they know they were photographed.
the pictures "Normal variation in shape", "Woman in brassiere showing cleavage" and "Woman wearing pasties" is a little miscellaneous. the picture of pierced nipples should be under the modification section of the article like circumcision is on the penis article. Yami ( talk) 17:59, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
The only images we need in the gallery are: Image:95C.jpg|Front view of woman's breasts, Image:Breastfeeding-icon-med.svg|International breastfeeding symbol, Image:449px-Manual Breast Pump 2005 SeanMcClean.jpg| Breast pump, Image:Breast self exam 1.jpg|Breast self exam, Image:Mammogram.jpg|Woman undergoing mammogram, and Image:Mammo breast cancer.jpg|Mammography pictures, normal (left) and cancerous (right)
all the other images are overload. Yami ( talk) 00:58, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
Ok everyone give me an idea of what you want
Gallery removed 100% (after all there is no gallery for the penis article or related anatomy)
clean up and/or removal of some images.
No change or little change.
I could go for either removing it 100% or removing certain images. Yami ( talk) 04:30, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I returned the gallery again. Apparently someone put it under a link. We don't censor images on Wikipedia, which is one reason we don't hide them under links. I can see that some people have a perspective, different from mine, that no images, or less images are better. I can agree that too many images is not meaningful or beneficial. Hiding all of the images, or removing all of the gallery images isn't acceptable.
I've been monitoring this and a large number of other sexology and sexuality articles for several years. The Gallery has been fine, and no problem, with no controversy for all of that time. Now, all of a sudden someone wants to make a change. But a sudden change by a couple of editors harms the long standing consensus. If some editor wants to make a radical change then we have to go through a process of building a consensus. The changes need to be communicated on the talk page, discussed, and then made based on the consensus. In the mean time, I would appreciate it if people would leave the gallery alone.
My opinion, as I said before, is that the gallery full of images does no harm. As it has gathered a number of images, it is probably quite likely that it has more images than it really needs to be encylopedic. We aren't at this time anyway, working to build the article to GA or FA status. That means that we need no sudden changes, but small gradual changes that will improve tha article. The number and type of images will be only one factor omong many in improving the article to reacg GA status. The focus of attention, primarily by one editor, on removing images from sexuality articles does not, in my mind, improve the quality of the articles. The rationale for that editor was once that he did not like them, and that we did not want children to see them, and that they were not appropriate, or that they were offensive. Based on rationale to sustain the images by other editors, he has changed his tactics to be more in line with Wikipedia policies, and the stated reasons lately have been that there are too many images, and that an article only needs a few images. The end result is the same. The reason that we have a group of people on Wikipedia who fight against censorship (see Wikipedians against censorship) is because too many new editors don't understand the policies of wikipedia, and think anything involving nudity should be offensive, or other reasons.
SO, in summary, let's discuss how we can improve this article. This includes adding and editing TEXT of the article, as well as paring to make sure that each image is constructive and offers useful information in some way. If eventually we maintain a gallery, it should be of images that add useful secondary images and examples of things discussed in the article. We should, in my opinion, err on the side of too many images, over too few images. Atom ( talk) 13:31, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
If you look at my edits, I am all for editing on the basis of improving the article. Certainly this article could use improvement. My opinion is that constructive edits would be adding more material pertinent to the topic, supported by some of the images in the gallery. The focus of a few editors is on the images though, not on improving the article. Removing the gallery isn't acceptable. I don't agree that remocvng the material makes the article more encylopedic since there is useful and instructive material in the Gallery. Yes, the gallery is to big, and needs to be pared. Our focus should be one improving that as one of many improvements in the article. See the discussion in the next section on what gallery images are beneficial and which ones are not.
I am not claiming that you as an editor are trying to censor. There is another editor whose primary focus is removing images, under the guise of improving the article. Images are not secondary concerns, but incorporated as part of the article. The lede image is one of the most important pieces of GA. Yes, it suppplements the article, bnut is very important. So, it makes no difference if text should predominate. I think we agree that we need more text that constructively adds to the article. Consider some of the images I mentioned in the Gallery section below, they are interesting, but do not fit in any currently existing section in the article. This begs for someone to add a section that discusses the topic, and uses that image to support it. Editors should focus on that type of contribution, not trying to contribute by removing images. That's my opinion. Atom ( talk) 14:28, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
Hiding the Gallery is not censorship. It is a tool to use for people's convince. Who wants their browser window to just keep stretching and stretching until everything loads?
Just like if i was to put the hide code on the talk page it would be just to allow easier navigation so people can see the part they want to see without having to scroll for five minutes to get to where they need.
Use your common sense please, I don't mean to offend but come on It was already explained why the gallery was hidden. Removing it would be censorship in a way but hiding it is only meant as a tool to improve.
We did the same thing in the Kanto (pokemon) talk page because it got so long it took to long to find where the discussion left off. Please do not undo the hide, and it is not a link. Links take you from the current page. Also we only need maybe 4-6 medical images of the cell pictures. I say 2 blue ones and two red ones and/or purple ones. We don't need 18 of them. Yami ( talk) 19:47, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
Wikipedia does not allow sites to be used that are off topic, judgmental or user generated.
Here is their disclaimer.
Disclaimer: Answers to questions should not in anyway be considered as professional advice or used as an alternative to seeking qualified professional help or guidance from your parents or legal guardian. Answers to questions are strictly for educational and entertainment purposes only. If you need professional advice you should consult a qualified professional, health care provider, or doctor. If you need guidance trust the judgement of your parents.
Also many of those "answers" were judgmental
Q Matthew (15-17) asks:
I masturbate 3-4 times a day in private, and maybe once or twice with one or two of my friends. The thing is they only play with themselves once a day, am I normal or am I some kind of sicko?
A Matthew:
Well, as you can read from the other responses, masturbating a few times daily isn't necessarily bad unless it gets in the way of other activities. Now, I assume you don't mean that you masturbate with with your friends every day also? I guess that wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing, but at this point, masturbating 4-6 times per day may be taking time away from other activities. You are probably in the normal range, although most boys don't "circle jerk" that often as they reach their late teens. If you're obsessed with masturbation, or masturbating with your friends, then perhaps you should take up a sport or hobby that will give you something else to do also.
Q Brian (15-17) asks...
When I am in Gym, I take a look around at other boys undressing and I get my penis gets stiff. When we are in the shower, it gets even stiffer. I'm not gay, but why is it doing this?
A Brian:
You're getting erections because it turns you on to see other boys undressing, and it turns you on to show them your own penis. Many people (gay and straight) get turned on by sexuality itself, regardless of the subject. True, you may not be gay, but I wouldn't totally rule it out. You should explore in your head what really does turn you on. And like I mentioned to Ryan, above, perhaps you should consider avoiding putting yourself in that situation.
Those are a few examples. Yami ( talk) 04:11, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
The topic of the article is breasts. I don't see anything above related to that. Perhaps that is your point? Well, I looked at the site, and it seems to be a generalized web site on sex education for teens. There are sections on a number of topics within it, including breast size, female genitals and stages of breasts [4]. I'm not sure who added the link originally, but perhaps one of those sections was the reason. As this is an article on breasts, I suppose it is marginally related. Certainly information on sex for teens looking at the breast article because they have questions about their developing body would be constructive. However, I don't see inclusion of the link as essential.
I am confused as to why you brought up the masturbation topic though, as that doesn't seem relevant. Your stated premise was that it should not be allowed because "Wikipedia does not allow sites to be used that are off topic, judgmental or user generated." And that site does seem to be marginally on topic, if you look at the sections on breasts, rather than the section on masturbation. It doesn't appear to be "judgmental", and it isn't a user generated site. You said that the Masturbation section (unrelated to breasts) demonstrated that someplace on the site it was judgmental. However the text you gave seemed just the opposite of judgmental. The answers were open, honest and accepting. I am guessing that there is something in the asnwers that you may disagree with, and so that may be why you found it to be judgmental? As a sexuality expert, and a parent, I have to say that the answers are pretty much the kind of advice that I would give, or an counselor would give if asked by a teen.
As I said before, "Certainly information on sex for teens looking at the breast article because they have questions about their developing body would be constructive. However, I don't see inclusion of the link as essential." Atom ( talk) 08:57, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
I removed the website based on wikipedia criteria. I only used the masterbation Q&A because i was in a hurry but those were two of at least 5 examples i had listed on Asher's talk page but he kept removing them. There are other sections and the website disclaimer even aknowledges that the answerers are not professional or at least should not be considered so.
A professional would never tell a person to get a hobby and stop jerking it. they also would not say something like "You're getting erections because it turns you on to see other boys undressing, and it turns you on to show them your own penis." Yami ( talk) 14:55, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
What about the "You're getting erections because it turns you on to see other boys undressing, and it turns you on to show them your own penis." part? Yami ( talk) 16:38, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
"You're getting erections because it turns you on to see other boys undressing, and it turns you on to show them your own penis. Many people (gay and straight) get turned on by sexuality itself, regardless of the subject. True, you may not be gay, but I wouldn't totally rule it out. You should explore in your head what really does turn you on. And like I mentioned to Ryan, above, perhaps you should consider avoiding putting yourself in that situation. Credit: J. Geoff Malta, MA, EdM, NCC Adolescent Therapist "
The person answering that question is a trained professional, and explaining his opinion honestly. I think his logic is that if the teen is getting sexually excited (evidenced by getting "stiffer") then it may be because of the reaons he said. There is no impled judgement. Judgement would be if the therapist had said "You are bad for feeling that way." Atom ( talk) 17:35, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
As per the criteria, of course you have read WP:EL I am certain. There is no need for the site to be offically run by professionals. You mentioned that you used the Maturbation section as an example. Well, to meet the criteria, it should be related to the topic of the article. In your haste, you skipped over the useful informaiton on breats in the article, that would have been the appropriate comparison. Atom ( talk) 17:35, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
Anyone can say they're a doctor and the disclaimer shouldn't be there if this is answered by a professional. Doctors should not be so blunt as to say "You're getting erections because it turns you on to see other boys undressing, and it turns you on to show them your own penis." That is judgmental, and to post it for display for people to see isn't proper conduct for a professional.
The site should be 86ed based on its disclaimer alone. If it was truly professional then a disclaimer wouldn't be needed.
Especially since it says the answers are for entertainment.
Just like you need a creditable source to cite articles, you need a creditable site to send people to. I would say number three on WP:ELYES dictates that the website should not be linked to because it isn't Neutral because of the judgmental tones of the article. WP:RS (which WP:ELMAYBE tells what should be considered) dictates that "Articles should rely on reliable, third-party, published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy" Who is checking this "professional"'s accuracy and reliability?
Not to mention the illustrations on the website are crude and unprofessional. Not one internal anatomy illustration can be seen. The site is hosted on a site advertising web hosting which further makes the question on how professional the site is. They might have some true facts but in general the whole site is a prime example of how anyone can have a website.
A .Org or .Gov external site would be a much better replacement. Though there are some creditable .com sites with info on the subject in this article and other articles you have to be careful what you link.
I think we should let this site go and find a new one. I believe a site with professional, crisp clear photos and illustrations would be proper. Don't get me wrong puberty 101 is probably doing their best but a more professional and creditable place to send knowledge seekers is needed. Would you want a 11 year old girl who is suffering growth pains to come to this article and go to the site just to find a Q&A that is no more then entertainment? I don't even think the little girl would know to check the Disclaimer, and would take that quack's advice to heart. Yami ( talk) 19:40, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
Of course, I disagree. A site does not have to be run by a professional to be notable or citeable. I think what you are trying to say is that the link is not a reliable source? The comments you allude to are very objective, and not at all judgmental. Maybe you do not perceive them as professional, but consider that a therapist is going to talk to a teen in the language he understands, not technobabble.
At any rate, isn't this moot point, as no one has objected to your removal of the link? Why are you beating a dead horse? Atom ( talk) 19:44, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
The template at the top of the page says the article is semi-protected ( ), but it is fully protected. − Twas Now ( talk • contribs • e-mail ) 22:20, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
I don't see any mention of breast hair in the article, nor any mention of it on the nipple page either. It is not uncommon for female breasts to have hair on them, especially around the nipple and areola. Some women prefer to remove it. Any reason why this should not be mentioned in the article? The article seems to present a view that all female breasts are hairless, which I suppose if a very americanized and glamourized view. Any thoughts? -- 99.233.145.3 ( talk) 21:48, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
well if you do the research I'm fine with its addition. I admit that's one feature of breast i rather not think to much about no matter how natural it is. at least not on a female anyways. Yami ( talk) 03:32, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
The current main photo seems really inappropriate. It is more an artistic photograph than one which properly depicts breasts. It's shot from a side angle so as to really only show one breast; the other breast is barely seen and blurry. Overall it is not the best choice. A better photo would be directly forward, showcasing both breasts in a more clinical sense. TheGoonSquad ( talk) 04:32, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
Its really funny that this Article have an female's breast picture. Did anybody think that nobody knows how an females breast looks like?? ;D —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.76.49.26 ( talk) 21:34, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
The cat article has an image, but I'm sure that the people who added it didn't think that nobody knows what cats look like. When there is a useful, informative image pertaining to an article's subject, its inclusion is often appropriate for Wikipedia. Please remember that the talk page is an area for discussion of how to improve an article, not for general commentary. Ketsuekigata ( talk) 03:50, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
I think the new pic should be the one on this page: [5] —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hornydude ( talk • contribs) 08:49, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
I feel that this image (Closeup of female breast.jpg) should be replaced in the article. The image has a visible line, which some say is a breast augmentation scar and others say is an indentation left by a bra. I personally think that it's probably an indentation, but in either case, it's a misleading mark and I think it would be better to use a picture of a typical breast without such a visible mark. I feel that the first picture in an encyclopedia article should depict the relevant object as accurately as possible and with as few misleading features as possible. Most of the time, for the majority of the human populace, such (indentation) marks are not typical features of human breasts. 86.56.40.172 ( talk) 08:44, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
Why arent their any pictures of male breasts? This isnt an article about female breasts but breats in general right?-- 76.173.255.40 ( talk) 21:06, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
We have one image of male breasts in the article already. It is in the disease section I think. None of "normal" male breasts. I don't really care for any of the images shown for the article. Atom ( talk) 12:17, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
I am attempting to garner consensous for a change to the picture in the lead of the article. The one in there now http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Closeup_of_female_breast.jpg is blurry and only shows one side of the breasts, whereas the one that I am proposing, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Weibliche_brust_en.jpg is a clear, full frontal view which also labels the various parts. Asarelah ( talk) 18:55, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
I have no objections to a lead photo being artistic and therefore the blurryness and angle do not matter. The breast itself is not blurry and the angle is one that would be seen by a baby! The other two photos are taken for particular purposes, viz, illustrating the changes to breasts during pregnancy and thus are appropriate for such a specific purpose. The current photo is fine for the lead. There, now I have addressed your other points. Cheers! Gillyweed ( talk) 05:45, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
How about this one: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5c/95C.jpg Bobisbob ( talk) 01:36, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
So can the one I suggested be put up? Bobisbob ( talk) 16:48, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
The current photo is more juicy, that's why I like it.-- SummerWithMorons ( talk) 14:27, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
The current image has too many signs which distract from the idea of straightforwardness and neutrality. The angle of the model's body, her raised blouse, the mark on the skin, the ambiguous situation regarding her state (natural, natural and pregnant, augmented, pregnant and augmented), the ambiguous room temperature (is she cold?), the natural lighting, the yellow object, the minimal depth of field, the close proximity of the lens to the subject, the tightness of the focal point in relation to its distance from the top edge of the picture frame. The new image should reflect a general appearance, almost clinical, with a collection of average and plain signs. This image (of all the images at wikimedia) appears the most suitable to me, although the model appears to be standing in her garden, and the photographer seems slightly unaware of the breasts in the context of the body. Redblueball ( talk) 15:45, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
I've replaced the image that contained the errors (for the reasons already mentioned - the awkward angle of the model's body, the shallow depth of field ("fuzziness"), and the mark on the model's breast). The new image is matter of fact, uniformly lit, shot against a neutral background, and the breast is unambiguously natural and unmarked. I've also retitled and numbered the discussions that cover the leading image.
Redblueball (
talk) 18:11, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
I have to say, I'm trying to have an open mind about it, but the new image doesn't look very good. It looks flat and two-dimensional. I would prefer something that looks realistic, say from the front.
Atom (
talk) 18:45, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
The visual representation of things is far from trivial, some even say that a picture is worth a thousand words... I also don't need to remind you that Wikipedia encourages change and improvements to all its content, and that includes the improvement of images. While there is a degree of visual naivete and apathy among some editors of this article for images and image making, a reason exists to employ that encouragement, make edits, and argue the cases for change. So, there appears to be a consensus for changing the lead image, or no consensus for keeping the lead image, or at least a consensus for substituting the lead image on the condition that the replacement is of better quality. Unambiguously, I've uploaded three new images, and propose that we vote on which image in the array (consisting of the new images, the current image, and the images that also appeared on the article this week) is preferred for the lead. Redblueball ( talk) 16:34, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
(outdent):I was actually being facetious when I mentioned the idea of photographing myself. Anyway, I will keep an eye on the commons if anyone uploads a superior picture, and I will suggest them here if anything pops up. Asarelah ( talk) 00:40, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
the current lead image is not appropriate for the top of the article. A better image would either be an illustrated frontal view or the first image from the gallery section which is already up for the position. Yami ( talk) 04:16, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
How did you guys on this article allow the current lead image to be in the first place. Somewhere someone must have added it and that wasn't controversial yet switching it out is? You'd think with so many editors trying to keep the article pure and encyclopedic they would have kept the lead image to retain a medical kind of tone. a Girls Gone wild, or a girlfriend showing her man the goods tone is not appropriate for the article. Yami ( talk) 19:19, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
This is a discussion of the images in the gallery. WHat images in the gallery could be moved into the article, and where? Which images are useful in the gallery as additional examples supporting text in the main article, but not right for that section? Which images are useful, and offering interesting examples of the topic, and which are redundant?
Frankly, looking through the gallery images, I can see very few that are not worth keeping. I can see a number of images that we should write sections of the article for, and include one or more images. That would include Image:ImmodestyBlaizeMEW2007Topless.jpg, Image:Himba ladies.jpg, Image:Nipples after.jpg, Image:Intricate rope breast bondage.jpg, Image:449px-Manual Breast Pump 2005 SeanMcClean.jpg, Image:449px-Manual Breast Pump 2005 SeanMcClean.jpg, and Image:MaxiMounds.jpg, Image:Inflammatory breast cancer.jpg, Image:Mastectomie 02.jpg and possibly others. The histopathology sections are interesting, but there are too many for the article section, maybe choosing one good one for that section would do. Atom ( talk) 13:50, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
There have been a recent discussion here and Skeezix1000 is tending to my point of view in rightly balancing text and images. As a result, they took away the gallery in William Lyon Mackenzie King. In fr:, some admins are currently discussing of the possibility of making commons galleries attractive in designing a new template. This could be added in text sections:
— STAR TREK Man [ Space, the final frontier... 08:29, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
I'd like to discuss what improvements other editors feel can be made to the Gallery images. The consensus has been, in the past, to have a Gallery in this article. Recently a few editors feel that there are more images than necessary. At a glance, I agree that thre are lots of images there, so let's discuss the individual images. Suggestions to "Just remove the whole Gallery" are lazy in my opinion. CLearly there are a number of great images in the Gallery, some of which I mentioned earlier.
Are there images in the Gallery that do not seem to add anything unique?
Are there images that clearly cry out for having a section on the topic, yet not discussed, in the article?
Atom ( talk) 12:48, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
Hiding the Gallery is not censorship. It is a tool to use for people's convince. Who wants their browser window to just keep stretching and stretching until everything loads?
Just like if i was to put the hide code on the talk page it would be just to allow easier navigation so people can see the part they want to see without having to scroll for five minutes to get to where they need.
Use your common sense please, I don't mean to offend but come on It was already explained why the gallery was hidden. Removing it would be censorship in a way but hiding it is only meant as a tool to improve.
We did the same thing in the Kanto (pokemon) talk page because it got so long it took to long to find where the discussion left off. Please do not undo the hide, and it is not a link. Links take you from the current page. Also we only need maybe 4-6 medical images of the cell pictures. I say 2 blue ones and two red ones and/or purple ones. We don't need 18 of them. Yami ( talk) 19:48, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
What others? you're the only one to say its censorship, that is your opinion. It is not censorship like Asher said. You are taking the "Wikipedia does not censor" thing out of context.
Also many of those images are in their own articles. Anything that is in its own article should be removed.
I was for keeping those Himba women in but they are in their own article We can add text that talks about them but a image here and an image in their article is overkill.
We don't need three images to try and show the differences in breast shape. 1 is a medical tone image while the others are magazine article tone and i don't mean a pornographic magazine so don't take that out of context.
The Illustration of saggital section of a human breast image seems a little random so i say get rid of that or put it on the saggital article.
The Diagram showing inframammary fold also seems random and the only reason it shows the inframammary fold it seems is because the person that made it put the word inframammary Fold in bold. Also the arrow looks like it was drawn in MS paint.
The picture of the bra is ok i guess but could be moved into the main article.
Woman wearing pasties is just miscellaneous and doesn't really add to the article. It just seemed to be put there just for the fact it got breast in it, not really to add value to the article about breast. a link to Pasties could be put in the main article but having a picture is a little miscellaneous as i have said. Maybe we could put it in a new section that speaks about accessories or something but right now the image is yeah miscellaneous.
We need a modification or alteration section where we could put the nipple that are pierced. The penis has Circumcision in that section on that article so i'd say this article needs something like that as well.
The breast Shields are miscellaneous.
The breast bondage is in its own article so its overkill to have it in multiple articles like that. We already have a link to breast bondage so no harm no in 86ing it.
Breast feeding symbol needs to be moved to breast feeding section.
Diagram of dissected lactating breast is questionable. I see no lactation (maybe its worded wrong) and it does no good to number stuff if you don't have what the numbers indicate in the article. If it was to be utilized to its fullest then it should be moved to the lactation article or breast feeding article.
Wax cast of a lactating human breast is just miscellaneous. If it was to be utilized to its fullest then it should be moved to the lactation article or breast feeding article.
Breast pump image is 50-50 remove 100% or move to main.
the breast of a pregnant woman is ok i say keep it or if its deemed to fit the article itself more then move it to the article out of the gallery.
15th century torture instrument designed to rip off breasts image is questionable. There is no citation or article that says rather that is what it is. To me it looks like some kind of Fireplace accessory or something used to pick up stuff.
Diagrams of cross sections of breast implants, subglandular (left) and submuscular (right) for me would have to be placed under the cosmetic and alteration section out of the gallery.
The implants i don't know about. There should be a breast implant article. I mean if bondage of the breast has its own article then the artificial growing of them does as well.
The porn star is miscellaneous and she has her own article. Maube mention her but a image isn't really that educational.
The common inferior pedicle breast reduction procedure with final result (red indicates incision lines) should stay with its own article. That whole overkill thing. besides it looks like something doodled in MS paint and not a serious medical illustration. I believe i'll just go ahead and remove that image from this article for now. I'll check into the credibility and other things that makes this notable.
the male with enlarged breast are ok i guess. Hate to say it but when i think breast i think women but they're all technically breast. I think that guy has bigger breast then the chick flashing the camera in the lead image.
Mammogram things i have nothing wrong with, Breast prostheses used by some mastectomy patients though i'm 50-50 on.
Drawing of inflammatory breast cancer is A OK! Maybe i could edit it and make both sides like the unswollen side and we can use that as the lead image. If both sides were the same that would be the kind of tone appropriate for the lead image.
I'll leave you to decide which of the cell stains should go but i say 50% at least 18 is a little much. Yami ( talk) 23:10, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
The following images were recently removed the article without consensus. I am trying to be constructive in discussing the topic as it is irritating to be in the middle of working on discussing the topic, and then have someone remove them without discussion.
Anyway, the following images weere recently removed, and returned again. I can asusme that the editor who removed them did not feel that he liked those images. Let discuss those images then.
Please add your opinion on the following images.
Many of those images are in their own articles. Anything that is in its own article should be removed.
I was for keeping those Himba women in but they are in their own article We can add text that talks about them but a image here and an image in their article is overkill.
We don't need three images to try and show the differences in breast shape. 1 is a medical tone image while the others are magazine article tone and i don't mean a pornographic magazine so don't take that out of context.
The Illustration of saggital section of a human breast image seems a little random so i say get rid of that or put it on the saggital article.
The Diagram showing inframammary fold also seems random and the only reason it shows the inframammary fold it seems is because the person that made it put the word inframammary Fold in bold. Also the arrow looks like it was drawn in MS paint.
The picture of the bra is ok i guess but could be moved into the main article.
Woman wearing pasties is just miscellaneous and doesn't really add to the article. It just seemed to be put there just for the fact it got breast in it, not really to add value to the article about breast. a link to Pasties could be put in the main article but having a picture is a little miscellaneous as i have said. Maybe we could put it in a new section that speaks about accessories or something but right now the image is yeah miscellaneous.
We need a modification or alteration section where we could put the nipple that are pierced. The penis has Circumcision in that section on that article so i'd say this article needs something like that as well.
The breast Shields are miscellaneous.
The breast bondage is in its own article so its overkill to have it in multiple articles like that. We already have a link to breast bondage so no harm no in 86ing it.
Breast feeding symbol needs to be moved to breast feeding section.
Diagram of dissected lactating breast is questionable. I see no lactation (maybe its worded wrong) and it does no good to number stuff if you don't have what the numbers indicate in the article. If it was to be utilized to its fullest then it should be moved to the lactation article or breast feeding article.
Wax cast of a lactating human breast is just miscellaneous. If it was to be utilized to its fullest then it should be moved to the lactation article or breast feeding article.
Breast pump image is 50-50 remove 100% or move to main.
the breast of a pregnant woman is ok i say keep it or if its deemed to fit the article itself more then move it to the article out of the gallery.
15th century torture instrument designed to rip off breasts image is questionable. There is no citation or article that says rather that is what it is. To me it looks like some kind of Fireplace accessory or something used to pick up stuff.
Diagrams of cross sections of breast implants, subglandular (left) and submuscular (right) for me would have to be placed under the cosmetic and alteration section out of the gallery.
The implants i don't know about. There should be a breast implant article. I mean if bondage of the breast has its own article then the artificial growing of them does as well.
The porn star is miscellaneous and she has her own article. Maube mention her but a image isn't really that educational.
The common inferior pedicle breast reduction procedure with final result (red indicates incision lines) should stay with its own article. That whole overkill thing. besides it looks like something doodled in MS paint and not a serious medical illustration. I believe i'll just go ahead and remove that image from this article for now. I'll check into the credibility and other things that makes this notable.
the male with enlarged breast are ok i guess. Hate to say it but when i think breast i think women but they're all technically breast. I think that guy has bigger breast then the chick flashing the camera in the lead image.
Mammogram things i have nothing wrong with, Breast prostheses used by some mastectomy patients though i'm 50-50 on.
Drawing of inflammatory breast cancer is A OK! Maybe i could edit it and make both sides like the unswollen side and we can use that as the lead image. If both sides were the same that would be the kind of tone appropriate for the lead image.
I'll leave you to decide which of the cell stains should go but i say 50% at least 18 is a little much. Also two of the stairs are the same one but different image. Yami ( talk) 23:12, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
You can add your comments in-line with the images, as I have, and that way everyone who participates will keep their comments organizae don an image by image basis. Atom ( talk) 01:35, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
I finished reading your comments, and I see we are in agreement on a number of things. I will take a look again later, focusing on the ones that suggest changes in the article. Those would be easy to focus on right off the bat. I hope that we can get some other people to offer their opinions also. Atom ( talk) 01:38, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
I agree. And it applies for all, imo. Good luck with Atom. Here, images are more important than encyclopedic text contents. :-( I let you deal with that repository. I can't believe the kilo-octets of discussion it produced here. We are not speaking of an article here but of an image bank. What a waste of time and of energy. WP is not intended to be this way. This discussion should be on Commons. My opinion. Still. — STAR TREK Man [ Space, the final frontier... 11:34, 4 August 2008 (UTC)Many of those images are in their own articles. Anything that is in its own article should be removed.
Half of those images are Cut and paste from or to the Breast Cancer article. There is no need to have a gallery that has images in another gallery to a page that connects to the article. We can remove much of the gallery just because its already represented in an adjacent article. A Book wouldn't have a bunch of images then tell you to turn to a certain page just to show you the same images.
any and all images that are currently in use for other articles should be removed to lessen the load on this article and keep it more on topic not subtopic. Yami ( talk) 01:35, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
Well think about it this way. Many of those images are not on topic but on subtopic. Breast Cancer is a subtopic of breast and all those images are in a gallery in the breast cancer article so they are not needed. They make the article bigger then it has to be. Yami ( talk) 02:27, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
Are we going for consensus on this yet? its been 3 days since this discussion left off. I think we can afford to lose the breast cancer images because they're in that article's Gallery.
It'd be the most encyclopedic thing because save for the table of content images, no encyclopedia would just show the same images like that. Yami ( talk) 03:41, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
Click Yami ( talk) 23:28, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
Cool. Great image -- nice find. It has possibilities. The only downside I see is that, of course, we prefer an image of a real person over an illustration. We should add this image to the Gallery for future use. Do we have any existing images that are comparable??
How about this one?
It5s in the gallery and i tried that image and it got removed because it was part of the consensus but i don't remember any rule against using a image that wasn't in the original consensus ats a upgrade so i went and added this one. Its not really a find just a edit of another image where one side showed the breast swollen from cancer.
Yami (
talk) 01:59, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
I don't see where consensus on the current image being used has been made. That image is unencyclopedic Yami ( talk) 02:10, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
"Lots of articles have illustrations. Take a look at Masturbation Autofellatio anal sex al have illustrations few actually have lead images so using a illustration is fine for the time being.
That was taken care of by a admin, and they started the edit war. you are not providing any better reason to why the current lead should stay other then its there and been there for a while. time for a upgrade. and what does the gallery have to do with the lead being replaced? stop jumping between debates. Yami ( talk) 03:49, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
Also you guys stopped discussing the lead image so i say that means its free to replace since no one is discussing it in the lead image 3 section. ive found a better image then what is there so i'm being bold and upgrading the article. Yami ( talk) 03:52, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
Yami: Take a look at this old link [
[12]] There is more in
Archive 3. The point, should it be missed, is that this has all happened before.
Atom (
talk) 04:13, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
What does me indenting or not have to do with the subject being discussed? Yami ( talk) 04:23, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
if you guys won't discuss it up there i'll bring it down here
"the current lead image is not appropriate for the top of the article. A better image would either be an illustrated frontal view or the first image from the gallery section which is already up for the position. Yami (talk) 04:16, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
How did you guys on this article allow the current lead image to be in the first place. Somewhere someone must have added it and that wasn't controversial yet switching it out is? You'd think with so many editors trying to keep the article pure and encyclopedic they would have kept the lead image to retain a medical kind of tone. a Girls Gone wild, or a girlfriend showing her man the goods tone is not appropriate for the article." Yami ( talk) 04:27, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
The lead image is inappropriate for the article i don't care how many times you guys act like it's been decided you guys decided wrong. I think the problem here is to many editors reign over the article to long. How about we just get ride of the lead image and end the entire debate? Yami ( talk) 04:35, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
Yami, I'm glad you mentioned those policies, as I was about to mention one of them myself ( wp:civil). Please read them before you quote them though.
Here is the deal Yami. Honeymane is right in that there was a recent discussion about the lede image. The discussion essentially resolved to make a consensus. We began discussing a potential change in the lede image here in the past day. That is legitimate. If we want to change thye lede, we need to cmplete the discussion. Other people, such as Honeymane, may have chimed in and opposed the change in the lede image. But -- you did not give him or others a chance. You changed the image before letting others respond. If four or five others had jumped in saying that your graphic was a great idea, or that Image95 was their preference, we might have had a consensus that any one editor might have had a hard time with.
I think, perhaps, that part of the issue is that you want to make rapid changes to an article instead of having patience. It could take a number of weeks to propose a change in the lede, and then wait for dicusssion, and then make the change. If you make that change and get away with it on a small article with few interested editors, then your "being bold" works. If it is a hotly contested article, like this one, then it takes more time and patience. Consider that the circumcision article and the female genital cutting article are ten times as hot as this one when it comes to changes.
In the fermale genital cutting article, one editor wantged to change the name of the article, and proposed that on 14 July move. I opposed that change, and there was substantial discussion. Ten different editors discussed and offered their view as supporting or opposing the change. On 31 july an admin closed the survey and move request, judging it as non consensus for changing the article title. The tally was four supporting the name change and six opposing the name change. This was a fairly quick process compared to some.
If you are sincere about changing the lede image in this article, I will start a survey (for you), and we can keep it open for two weeks (or longer if you wish) and you can propose your preference for lede, discuss why you feel that it is the best choice, and try and convince others of that. In the end, we (myself, Honeymane, and everyone else that has been discussing here) will almost certainly support any consensus coming from that survey. Keep in mind it is not a vote. A Consensus is needed. Without a consensus, a number of editors will probably object to a change in the lede image. Let me know how you want to proceed. Atom ( talk) 04:38, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
Yes i want a speedy change because the longer bad info stays the longer people want it to stay. the longer bad info stays the more it hurts the article. Also the discussion was still going on when I came in and you guys wouldn't answer a simple question as to why you guys let that image on here in the first place.
A full frontal view be it real or illustrated is more encyclopedic then a side view of a woman's blurry scared breast where her shirt is lifted up with trees visible in the backdrop and a caption that says she is pregnant yet you see only the breast and not much stomach.
The image should be replaced with a crisp clear picture that is fully in focus and provides a full frontal view. if 95c is not that image then the breast image i provided should be more then enough. The lead image represents the article, what kind of representing is the current lead doing? Yami ( talk) 04:54, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
If you mean this then you sir are lying i edited the breast cancer image to make that today. Yami ( talk) 05:38, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
Do not edit my posts Yami ( talk) 05:46, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
You sir are a lier, all you do is accuse me of this and that
Yami (
talk) 21:00, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
I never seen a rule about it and i never indent and i'm not going to indent. Yami ( talk) 06:22, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
An editor has suggested a change in the lead image. For various reasons he does not find the current image, File:Closeup of female breast.jpg to be appropriate. Two possible images to replace the current Lead image is Image:95C.jpg or Image:Breast Image 289.jpg. I am starting this survey on his behalf to discuss opinions on whether the lead should be used, or another image. If you feel that another image is better, if you could give which lead image you prefer, and explain why.
*'''Support'''
or *'''Oppose'''
, then sign your comment with ~~~~
. Since
polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account
Wikipedia's naming conventions. Comment period to end
August
18
2008.(Useught's comment is on my talk page by the way) Yami ( talk) 18:02, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
upright=1.5
code to magnify it a little?
Image:95C.jpg is small and lacks of all these other great features. —
STAR TREK Man [
Space, the final frontier... 23:35, 4 August 2008 (UTC)"
Star Trek Man" wrote: "Oppose. The current image has a great resolution when you click on it (light, number of details, angle of view, artistical photographic work, the bra adds to it) and yes, it focuses on one nipple (the other blured one should be like the other!). Maybe we should add upright=1.5
code to magnify it a little?
Image:95C.jpg is small and lacks of all these other great features." Comment copied by
User:Redblueball from "Survey on lead image".
Realistic:
1. practical: seeking what is achievable or possible, based on known facts
2. simulating reality: simulating real things or imaginary things in a way that seems real
3. reasonable: not priced or valued too low or high
Encarta ® World English Dictionary © & (P) 1998-2004 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
Any thing that wouldn't be in a Encyclopedia is not suppose to be in wikipedia. A image of Larry the Cable Guy would not be the lead image in John Holmes article because it would be unencyclopedic and UNREALISTIC. People know Larry the cable guy does not have a porn career and did not die from aids.
Dictionaries (or the more expensive ones) have illustrations of the breast in them. It might be crude and no more then line art but both breast are viewed from the front or at least front and side. if you find one with real photos you won't see anything like the lead image.
Encyclopedia that do have pictures do not have Images of slanted blurry outdoors images of breast.
A Medical Journal entry on breast would not have a image of a woman showing her breast for beads at Mardi Gras.
Just because this is not a paper encyclopedia does not mean it shouldn't be treated and kept to the realistic approach of a paper encyclopedia. Yami ( talk) 05:56, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
Have glance at this article http://encarta.msn.com/media_461540234_761575604_-1_1/Human_Female_Breast.html
That's a Web Encyclopedia article with a image that might not be the best but it has the right tone for what a Encyclopedia uses as far as images go. Wikipedia can use real subjects but encyclopedias do not use images like the current lead. Yami ( talk) 07:00, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
another site
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/MEDLINEPLUS/ency/imagepages/1075.htm
Yami ( talk) 07:51, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
Hi. I can't follow anymore the discussion of the Breast article, Im in vacations now and going away from internet for a while. If I have to answer any further, this will be in early September. Cheers and good luck to all in improving the article. The gallery needs to be reduced. At least we agree all on this (?). :) —
STAR TREK Man [
Space, the final frontier... 12:29, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
Well 5.5 want it changed and 4.5 want it to stay if you count the neutral vote as half of a vote to both sides. other wise its 5 in favor of change 4 in favor of keeping the current lead. Yami ( talk) 15:13, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
My count today is four opposed, five support and one neutral. This would be a result of no consensus for changing the image, if the survey were finished. We have until the 18th. Does anyone think that we should get an RFC to draw some more opinions, or will we be satisfied with this result? Let me know, and I will start an RFC. Atom ( talk) 14:15, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
This article is full protected for 3 days due to recent edit warring. — Rlevse • Talk • 23:05, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
Many of the images in the Gallery are already in use in adjacent articles that connect to this article. Some of the images can be moved to adjacent article so that they are not removed from wikipedia entirely.
At least 50% of the images are in the Breast Cancer article in a gallery as well.
To lessen the load on this article and to keep from having replication of materials, I am starting this survey. In doing so I hope to get consensus on making the Gallery a little smaller and helping keep the gallery on topic and not subtopic.
To take part start a new line beginning with *'''Support'''
or *'''Oppose'''
sign your comment with ~~~~
.
For a pacific section of the gallery such as the Brest Cancer Section, indicate it with *'''(Section) + positon'''
:Example:
Because This is the talk page and polls/surveys are no subsitute for discussion please give a reason for your position, Thank you. Comment period to end August 20 2008.
Atom ( talk) 09:11, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
Ok should the image i provided to the gallery be higher up for now until the gallery clean up or should it remain next to the picture that it was edited from? Yami ( talk) 02:32, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
Is it ok if i remove the Breast Cancer section of the gallery since all those images are already in the Breast Cancer Article's own Gallery.
No use in showing the same info on both articles. Yes they're all informational, but they';re also already on another article in the same fashion and both articles connect to each other so its redundant. Yami ( talk) 05:13, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
I don't really think any of the stain images are needed in this article. as for the other two i have no opinion one way or another.
The image I provided which is nothing more then a edit of its twin image could go in the main article. I might even be willing to make a diagram version if and only if it would help the article. No need in providing images that just clutter the article.
I do think the self-breast exam is needed in the article. I've switched out the breast exam link to be in a better place. I also added some sentences about the importance of breast exams and mammograms. Yami ( talk) 21:38, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
So lets be clear, if i, or someone else removed the images that are in the breast cancer article it won't get reverted over and over causing a edit war? Asher is the one who wanted consensus to be made on the gallery all together. Yami ( talk) 23:02, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
you forgot one of the images. Yami ( talk) 19:28, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
Do we need the breast sheild? it seems like it illustrates the same thing as the pierced nipples. Yami ( talk) 07:21, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
Do we need the painted breasts with shield? It is not essential. It would be in the article if there was space (already two images for that section. I think it should stay. It is clearly not redundant with the piercing photo, as it is an image and example of breast painting, and also of a breast shield -- niether of which is illustrated in the article. It should stay, IMO. Atom ( talk) 12:49, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
well if you look closely it is also a peirced nipple pic which could be called redundant, i think we need to get rid of the Pastie picture it seems to be miscellaneous. The himba women i don't know about we already have a in article image talking about cultures with no or few restrictive rules on clothing. Yami ( talk) 03:00, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
Well, yes it is pierced, how else would you keep the shield on? It's benefit is the painting and shield, not the piercing. I think we should keep the Pastie and the Himba too. Again, both unique, interesting and offer something. I pretty much like the Gallery as is. Would like to figure out how to move at least one of them to the article though. Atom ( talk) 03:25, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
The only one i can see going into the article is either the breast feeding symbol or the himba under the other picture. Yami ( talk) 06:56, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
Yes, those are the ones I thought might work someplace to. See if you can find a place to add them. Atom ( talk) 13:10, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
hum? why is the external link Images of female breasts being used?
What educational value does this particular site provide. all it shows is a gallery of breast nothing really worth putting as an external link.
Just a bunch of men and women taking photos and putting them up with their life story underneath. How is this really educational. It seems to me that all it is doing is just showing breast to show breasts I see nothing sexual really to these images except the german girl with water trickling off her beasts. A lot of amateurish photography yes but how is a gallery of breast going educate?
The article need medical reports and articles not random out of nowhere sites.
Yami ( talk) 19:48, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
Oh and i think, but I'm not sure, that the third link is against policy. it seems to be just an advertisement.
I'm going remove it but the other one i'm leaving alone until we can get feedback and discuss it. Yami ( talk)
19:50, 10 August 2008 (UTC)