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Break-up of the Beatles article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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I made a change in this article which has been (mostly) reverted to a prior state and I accept that reasons given (non-RS and brevity) have validity. HOWEVER I wish to open Talk for the substance of the changes I had made, namely: It is NOT a fact that McCartney quit or announced his departure from The Beatles on 10 April 1970. Despite having passed via newspapers into 'biographer' history, McCartney does not give notice or announcement of quit in the press-interview that accompanied his solo album. I invite thorough inspection of this and of the Apple Corps statement of the same date. Neither give a quit notification nor announcement on that date. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Michaelk xsx ( talk • contribs) 20:20, 16 December 2013 (UTC)
"Coupled with his renewed drug use and a deterioration in his marriage and family life, Lennon's personal identity and artistic role within the Beatles was a source of discontent."
I think this is very poorly phrased and somewhat ambiguous; all comments on my replacement sentence are welcomed, because I may be mistaken over who was discontented (but I don't think so). Harfarhs ( talk) 17:37, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
I was dismayed at the subtle but quite apparent anti-McCartney tone of this post. The entry is replete with example after example of bias against McCartney in which he is portrayed in a negative light. The descriptions, in the main made through the weight and connotation of descriptors, depict McCartney as narcissistic, unreasonable, selfish, arbitrary, imperious, greedy and/or callous and unkind. The same harsh and negative standard is not applied to his bandmates, particularly not to Lennon.
Which brings up the second objection: the favoritism, to a somewhat lesser degree than the boas against McCartney, in favor of Lennon/Ono. The author(s) have apparently "chosen sides" in the matter of the Beatles breakup, and produced an entry which comports with their own desires to paint McCartney as their villain and Lennon as their hero. This is both unfortunate and surprising - one would have thought, particularly in a subject of such interest, that special care would have been taken to have kept this article free of petty prejudices and unfairness. Jum1801 ( talk) 13:33, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
I urge a re-reading by prospective editors, not with a goal of protecting the product as-is, but to, as much as possible, scour the article for evidence of any bias or preference. I believe a review by parties with little or no interest in the Beatles would be instructive and enlightening, since I think an objective person will readily find the prejudice of which I write. Jum1801 ( talk) 13:33, 7 April 2020 (UTC) jum1801
Like the Beatlemaina article, this topic has several unresolved footnote references. Many of them are the same as the Beatlemania article, in fact, tho a few are different:
Is anyone able to sort these out so the article is properly and verifiably referenced? -- Mikeblas ( talk) 17:15, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 16:08, 18 September 2020 (UTC)
The title of this article should be amended to reflect the proper spelling of "breakup."
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 06:38, 30 June 2021 (UTC)
Apologies for my earlier edits. I’m new at this, and thought at first that my first edit didn’t take, so I did it again. I see now I should have messaged you beforehand.
First, thank you for maintaining this page. There’s a lot of important information on it.
I think some of it can be revised with more accuracy. For instance, Beatlemania was really finished by 1966 after they stopped touring, and therefore I believe it should be removed from the list of stress factors in paragraph 1. Or are you trying to say they were being stressed by their fans?
Also, following up on the above “anti-McCartney” comment, I think the reference to McCartney’s “domineering” role sounds biased, and could be softened. The other members may have felt he was domineering, but he probably didn’t see it that way. “Self-assertive” might be a less judgmental term.
Let me know if you are open to other suggestions. And if I have made any blunders here, I apologize in advance.
Thank you, Jk Jkjk8989 ( talk) 00:36, 12 July 2021 (UTC)
I think your suggestion works nicely; i.e., "what his bandmates considered domineering.” I'll be happy to look into making an adjustment.
Did Ringo consider Paul domineering? I know he has described Paul as “a workaholic,” which sounds like typical Ringo, not wanting to talk badly of anyone. It’s just that I’ve never heard or read about Ringo expressing that sentiment. My sense is that he had no problem taking direction, from Paul or anyone.
Jkjk8989 ( talk) 00:05, 14 July 2021 (UTC)
JG66: Is there a link to Starr’s affidavit? I can't find it online. A specific quote would be helpful, too. As we have discovered here, memories can be faulty. 😉 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jkjk8989 ( talk • contribs) 21:49, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
The use of "perceived" here suggests that the other factors were real and McCartney's "domineering role" was only "perceived". It just sounds biased.-- Jack Upland ( talk) 00:49, 15 January 2022 (UTC)
Although McCartney effectively announced the end of the band on 10 April 1970, Lennon left the Beatles (though not made public at the time) on 20 September 1969, as is stated later on in the article and is widely documented. So please don't keep changing the introduction to say that John, Paul, George and Ringo were in the group until April 1970, as this is incorrect. Thanks Mark and inwardly digest ( talk) 17:59, 22 July 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Break-up of the Beatles article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1 |
![]() | Consensus per this RfC closure and this RfM closure is to use "the Beatles" mid-sentence. |
![]() | This article is written in British English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, defence, artefact, analyse) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
![]() | This article was nominated for deletion on 17 December 2008. The result of the discussion was keep. |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
I made a change in this article which has been (mostly) reverted to a prior state and I accept that reasons given (non-RS and brevity) have validity. HOWEVER I wish to open Talk for the substance of the changes I had made, namely: It is NOT a fact that McCartney quit or announced his departure from The Beatles on 10 April 1970. Despite having passed via newspapers into 'biographer' history, McCartney does not give notice or announcement of quit in the press-interview that accompanied his solo album. I invite thorough inspection of this and of the Apple Corps statement of the same date. Neither give a quit notification nor announcement on that date. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Michaelk xsx ( talk • contribs) 20:20, 16 December 2013 (UTC)
"Coupled with his renewed drug use and a deterioration in his marriage and family life, Lennon's personal identity and artistic role within the Beatles was a source of discontent."
I think this is very poorly phrased and somewhat ambiguous; all comments on my replacement sentence are welcomed, because I may be mistaken over who was discontented (but I don't think so). Harfarhs ( talk) 17:37, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
I was dismayed at the subtle but quite apparent anti-McCartney tone of this post. The entry is replete with example after example of bias against McCartney in which he is portrayed in a negative light. The descriptions, in the main made through the weight and connotation of descriptors, depict McCartney as narcissistic, unreasonable, selfish, arbitrary, imperious, greedy and/or callous and unkind. The same harsh and negative standard is not applied to his bandmates, particularly not to Lennon.
Which brings up the second objection: the favoritism, to a somewhat lesser degree than the boas against McCartney, in favor of Lennon/Ono. The author(s) have apparently "chosen sides" in the matter of the Beatles breakup, and produced an entry which comports with their own desires to paint McCartney as their villain and Lennon as their hero. This is both unfortunate and surprising - one would have thought, particularly in a subject of such interest, that special care would have been taken to have kept this article free of petty prejudices and unfairness. Jum1801 ( talk) 13:33, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
I urge a re-reading by prospective editors, not with a goal of protecting the product as-is, but to, as much as possible, scour the article for evidence of any bias or preference. I believe a review by parties with little or no interest in the Beatles would be instructive and enlightening, since I think an objective person will readily find the prejudice of which I write. Jum1801 ( talk) 13:33, 7 April 2020 (UTC) jum1801
Like the Beatlemaina article, this topic has several unresolved footnote references. Many of them are the same as the Beatlemania article, in fact, tho a few are different:
Is anyone able to sort these out so the article is properly and verifiably referenced? -- Mikeblas ( talk) 17:15, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 16:08, 18 September 2020 (UTC)
The title of this article should be amended to reflect the proper spelling of "breakup."
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 06:38, 30 June 2021 (UTC)
Apologies for my earlier edits. I’m new at this, and thought at first that my first edit didn’t take, so I did it again. I see now I should have messaged you beforehand.
First, thank you for maintaining this page. There’s a lot of important information on it.
I think some of it can be revised with more accuracy. For instance, Beatlemania was really finished by 1966 after they stopped touring, and therefore I believe it should be removed from the list of stress factors in paragraph 1. Or are you trying to say they were being stressed by their fans?
Also, following up on the above “anti-McCartney” comment, I think the reference to McCartney’s “domineering” role sounds biased, and could be softened. The other members may have felt he was domineering, but he probably didn’t see it that way. “Self-assertive” might be a less judgmental term.
Let me know if you are open to other suggestions. And if I have made any blunders here, I apologize in advance.
Thank you, Jk Jkjk8989 ( talk) 00:36, 12 July 2021 (UTC)
I think your suggestion works nicely; i.e., "what his bandmates considered domineering.” I'll be happy to look into making an adjustment.
Did Ringo consider Paul domineering? I know he has described Paul as “a workaholic,” which sounds like typical Ringo, not wanting to talk badly of anyone. It’s just that I’ve never heard or read about Ringo expressing that sentiment. My sense is that he had no problem taking direction, from Paul or anyone.
Jkjk8989 ( talk) 00:05, 14 July 2021 (UTC)
JG66: Is there a link to Starr’s affidavit? I can't find it online. A specific quote would be helpful, too. As we have discovered here, memories can be faulty. 😉 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jkjk8989 ( talk • contribs) 21:49, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
The use of "perceived" here suggests that the other factors were real and McCartney's "domineering role" was only "perceived". It just sounds biased.-- Jack Upland ( talk) 00:49, 15 January 2022 (UTC)
Although McCartney effectively announced the end of the band on 10 April 1970, Lennon left the Beatles (though not made public at the time) on 20 September 1969, as is stated later on in the article and is widely documented. So please don't keep changing the introduction to say that John, Paul, George and Ringo were in the group until April 1970, as this is incorrect. Thanks Mark and inwardly digest ( talk) 17:59, 22 July 2023 (UTC)