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Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | → | Archive 7 |
I would like to respectfully point out that the article cites this BBC article as support that Brandon was transsexual. The article refers to her as "she" and as a "girl." I don't agree with the usage of pronouns in the Wikipedia article. However, as I've said previously I have no wish to edit war over it and will not, but only would like to remind that pronoun usage in no way defines trollish or vandalistic behaviour in the context of this article. Thanks for listening. Gwen Gale 11:01, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
Ok, so I tried cleaning up the referances a little bit because they were hard to accsess and understand... at least for me. Could someone work on them? I just made in worse >.< Eirra 18:24, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
Indeed, with regards to content, caution should be exhibited. When content/context is added, we need to be careful to use encyclopedic language. The article is tending to read like a novelette. Zue Jay ( talk) 22:53, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
Is simply not notable enough to be encyclopedic on an article about Brandon Teena, and I've reverted the inclusion of the link by anon. Sorry, but it's my opinion (pretty strong opinion after a bit of research) that Gage's essay (posted on an unverifiable web site, no less) simply does not meet the standards to be cited as a valid source on WP, in terms of notability, undue weight, verifiability, etc. for starters. -- User:RyanFreisling @ 23:09, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
The article drops random names as if we are supposed to know who they are. Editing for proper introductions to people requested.
-- unsigned at 10:23, 28 March 2007 by
An anon keeps reverting the section stating that Brandon Teena had dated Lisa Lambert prior to the murders, citing personal experience. Needless to say, that's not sufficient for WP. The anon then put a link in to what appears to be a Dutch site, without apparent attribution or verifiability that did not appear to back up the assertion. In a few minutes of searching I found this:
If there is indeed a source to substantiate they were not dating, please provide it. I frankly don't care about this issue either way, but we need to reflect the verifiable facts of this case in the article, not anonymous accounts. Thoughts? -- User:RyanFreisling @ 14:31, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
I am the anon you talk of and I am at a loss of how to provide proof of what is in my head. My ex is the former Carrie Gross, Lisa Lamberts roommate at the time of the murders. This is substantiated in both a book "All She Wanted", thru numerous articles on line, and several TV shows including A&E American Justice "The Life and Death of Teena Brandon" plus the doc "The Brandon Teena Story". If anyone would know the actual facts it would be Lisa Lamberts former roommate. She has stated that Brandon and Lisa were never an item and never dated. I have yet to see any truly verifiable source that says they were actually dating. As for me, I have a site on Yahoo: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Brandon93/ It is a member only site to keep out porn bots, so just ask and I will be more than happy to open the door for you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12:04, 31 March 2007 ( talk • contribs) 63.215.29.115
I am trying to understand your point. How is it GLAAD has information that is correct, when I knew the victim on a personal basis and mine is hearsay? My ex not only knew all 3 victims, she was living in the same house as all 3. How is it GLAAD knows more than any of us who were there? I am trying to understand what makes them a verifiable source of information over someone they never knew, and not a spinner of tall tails to advance their own agenda.
No. No more questions. I am done with wiki. Thanks for checking out my web site to verify who I am. Good day.
personal attack deleted—The preceding
unsigned comment was added by
63.215.29.119 (
talk)
20:33, 14 April 2007 (UTC).
I see this user is back and reverting to a version eliminating the mention of Lisa Lambert as Brandon's girlfriend at the time of his move to Falls City. Note that when Brandon was killed, he was killed in Lambert's bed. In light of the mention of this fact in the article and the three sources that establish that they were dating when Brandon moved in, I consider it more informative to include the 'girlfriend' information in the 'Living in Falls City' section. If there is evidence other than an anon claiming personal knowledge (as discussed earlier in this section), please cite it. -- User:RyanFreisling @ 23:08, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
In this part of Nebraska if you move in with a girlfriend and start dating her friends you won't wake up one morning. This entire sentence makes Lisa and Brandon sound like a couple of freaks. They were neither. And Brandon was found dead on top of her bed at the foot, not in her bed. Lisa was covered up, Brandon was not. As for calling this vandalism, it was not. There are more than a few people who disagree with this statement. You encourage people to make chages as long as they agree with your view? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 63.215.29.115 ( talk • contribs).
I am well aware the fate Teena Brandon suffered. We all are and is one of the reason's we came in here. And yet Lisa is not only lumped into being the girlfriend of someone she was only good friends with, she evidently didn't mind him messing around behind her back with her friends. This is all so wrong. She helped out someone in need and now she gets labeled as a cheap loser who's supposed boyfriend likes to cheat on her with her supposed friends. That just isn't right. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 63.215.29.115 ( talk • contribs).
Perhaps this should stand as a lesson for us all. Lisa opened her home and risk (and lost) her life to help a very troubled soul. And now she and her son get to pay for it. Clearing her name won't be possible, so perhaps this will serve as a lesson to the rest of us who would have tried to help someone like this in the past. Maybe this will actually save some other innocent life. Lesson learned. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 63.215.29.115 ( talk • contribs).
Hope so. Thanks for your views on the matter and I'm sorry you feel that way. Now, will you please agree to stop making uncited edits and to provide valid citations to validate your future edits? Again, thanks. -- User:RyanFreisling @ 00:07, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
As I see it, you found one source stating that Lisa and Brandon dated. I don't see how that one source can block out others that do not support you view. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Faytay2002 ( talk • contribs).
Funny. I find it disruptive that you continue be so set on providing inaccurate information. Those sources you used sound exactly the same. Like they were taken word for word and used as a source for each other. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Faytay2002 ( talk • contribs).
I never said they were in collusion. Calling this an encyclopedia article is an insult to encyclopedias. Is it not well known that it was in fact Lana Tisdale who was Brandon's girlfriend? While Lisa may have had feelings for Brandon, and I don't know that she did, it does not in fact mean they were dating.
I will not give you a 'no' since I am not done with this yet.
Lisa has often been linked, mistakenly, with Teena Brandon as a romantic partnership. Lisa's only true love was her son Tanner. "Brandon" was seeking refuge from her attackers and she gladly gave comfort and shelter to a bruised and battered human being. For this she gave her life.
www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page_gr&GRid=17993044
I just gave you evidence. I did not say I have first hand knowledge. I do not. Earlier you stated you don't care either way if they dated or not. So why do you continue to change what I and others have been taking out? I think you have me confussed with another user. We are not the same person. Faytay2002 01:16, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
According to SOAPBOX propaganda and advocacy is not allowed. And yet many of the cites being listed here are from GLAAD or liked to them, which clearly has an agenda to advance their own cause (as do most groups). Isn't allowing such cites a violation of the spirit of your own rules in wiki?
Then please explain how such a source, that you know will not be unjaded, is notable?
Marvin Thomas Nissen, 22, also of Falls City, has been convicted of one count of first degree murder in the death of Brandon Teena and two counts of second degree murder in the deaths of Lisa Lambert, whom Brandon was living with at the time, and Phillip DeVine, a friend who http://drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu/~julie/text/teenrage.html
No mention of girlfriend. Just the person Brandon was living with at the time. And to your above comment, it is also debated whether Brandon was truly transgendered or not. Her greatest fear, according to acquaintances, was to be touched sexually by a man, and she was especially afraid of being raped. In fact, one male relative had exposed her to repeated sexual abuse, so her male appearance was as much a disguise as a guise. taken from www.crimelibrary.com
Faytay2002 01:46, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
How is it anything I give you you argue with? What is illogical is how set you are on fighting about this. I have to ask again, if you don't care as you stated before, why do you insist on putting it back in? Faytay2002 01:53, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
www.cnn.com/2003/us/central/12/28/brandon.death.transgender.ap/index.html
John Lotter and Marvin Nissen were convicted of murdering Teena, who had dated a female friend of the two men. They also killed Lisa Lambert, 24, and Philip DeVine, 22, who had witnessed Teena's death in a farmhouse. Faytay2002 02:01, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
Just because a group is named Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation does not mean they do not posses an agenda. What makes this group scholarly and quotable? If a group has an agenda what makes anything they publish reliable, verifiable, or neutral as required by wiki guidlines? I think this is crossing the line and this entire project is tainted.
So you are saying that they must have been dating just because they lived together for awhile? I'd say that is a fallacy on your part. And again, I am NOT the person who posted about my ex knowing the victim. I have found several sources for you now that mention Lisa as only the person he was living with, not a girlfriend. The fact that these sources have omitted this fact is because it is not true. If in fact he had been dating, doesn't it seem reasonable that the cnn article would have stated that? But they didn't. It was stated that he had been dating a friend of the killers. That was in the article because that is the truth. Faytay2002 02:15, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
Also, using the very wiki sourses you refer to, the cites provided are invalid as well. It clearly states a source must be neutral. How can you justify otherwise?
Yet again, you are confussing me with another. I have no personal claims, as I did not know any of these victims. But I fail to see your point that these articles would leave out an important fact such as any kind of romantic relationship they may have had. If it had been true, it would have been stated. But it was not. It was stated he was dating another woman, but living with Lisa. Faytay2002 02:31, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
By reinforcing the importance of including verifiable research produced by others….How does GLAAD fit into verifiable research?. “There is no firm definition of reliable, although most of us have a good intuition about the meaning of the word. In general, the most reliable sources are books and journals published by university presses; mainstream newspapers; and magazines and journals published by known publishing houses. Again, explain to me how anything from GLAAD fits this criteria.
Link to that text, please? Here's mine (with a link):
I have to agree with the other poster Ryan. I don't see how GLAAD can be called reliable when it is neither "books and journals published by university presses; mainstream newspapers; and magazines and journals published by known publishing houses". Seems CNN would be a more reliable source than anything from GLAAD. Faytay2002 03:02, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
Thanks. Using the above statement, how is it GLAAD is a book or journal published by a university press; mainstream newspaper; a magazine or journal published by a known publishing house? I can't see how they can be used as a source and still meet any of the criteria. That is like allowing the American National Socialist Party to write the story of Adolf Hitler. I am not trying to link them to NAZI's, it is just an easy example of how someone with an agenda towards its members will not provide as a source you can count upon. (Can NAZI's read or write, anyway? I never met one.)
Hello Alison. I am far from running out of arguments. There are dozens more to come, just using the links inside wiki that RF gave me to read. I can get some reading done on what is legal and allowed and I will be back within a few days. Thanks for all the help tonight. I think we shall be in for an interesting few days. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.215.29.115 ( talk • contribs)
Legal threats? Against wiki? That would be a huge waste of time and money. No, this is more of a challenge. To know the truth and fight for it. Even if someone else will eventually come along and change it back to something wrong again. I like a good challenge. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.215.29.115 ( talk • contribs)
Taken from All She Wanted by Aphrodite Jones
"When Reanna got back outside, Daphne had just pulled up with Carrie Gross, her buddy from Humbolt." p. 115 fyi- Reanna and Daphne were girlfriends of Brandon's while still in Lincoln. I am only posting this to bring up Carrie Gross, who was Lisa Lambert's roommate.
"When Brandon and Daphne arrived, they didn't even see Humbolt. It was one of the coldest autumns in Nebraska on record, so they saw nothing but bleak winter farmland. Carrie brought them directly to Lisa Lambert's farmhouse, a tiny gray one-story shack with three small bedrooms just two miles south of town. Lisa rented the place for $125 a month, so she could afford to be gracious, and let friends stay there for little or no charge. Carrie Gross and her boyfriend Mike Lang were already living there off and on, so hosting Carrie's friends wasn't a big deal." p. 118
Here is the proof you have been asking for that shows Brandon did not move in with his "girlfriend" Lisa Lambert. Faytay2002 15:10, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
Actually, Jones book, which is published by a note worthy author and by a well known publishing house, meeting all of wiki's criteria, is the only true source meeting the strict rule of wikipedia for verifiability and NPOV. Her book is in direct conflict of much of this article, and many of the other sources being used to back up claims within this article. The name Brandon Teena in relation to Brandon in this book. The author, who used both family and friends, uses the name Brandon or Teena to refer to this person. Also, how is note 6 a valid not? It uses IMDB. IS this any more acceptable than the FIND A GRAVE that was shown earlier. Both of these are web site, not verifiable and certainly not legal by wiki standards. Either allow both to be cited or remove IMDB and note 6 as a cite.
Sure, now you have agreed we can start using Jones book to remove some of these other cites. For instance, number 6 that you ignored me post on. It is invalid by using your own criteria. It is a web site and not a true wiki notable source. Thanks Ryan, I think we can do bussiness together now.
That is fine. I notice you have added a cite for FindAGrave for Teena Brandon. Please add this one as well for Lisa Lambert http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=17993044. If Find a Grave is a valid source then let us use it all of it as such.
If one cite on Find A Grave is allowed, then all must be allowed. You can't use one page and not another on the same web site. Either allow Lisa Lamberts page or exclude the Brandon page. Speaking of names, I am still looking thru Jones book and at no point is the term Brandon Teena used. Not from the mother, any family member, none of the frineds, or even from Brandon himself. This appears to be a term rather than a name.
All I could find in the cite was this reference: ""Brandon" came into Humboldt, about eighty miles south of Lincoln, and stayed with a girl named Lisa Lambert. Lisa fell in love with him, but he soon had his eye on someone else. That's what got him into more trouble than he'd bargained for." Can someone show me where it says Lisa was a girlfriend?
-- User:RyanFreisling @ 00:42, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
why do they keep saying that shes a guy hes a girl its as simple as that she tried to make her self look like a guy and lied to everyone but she still was a girl by saying that shes a guy and referring to her as he are they who wrote the article trying to respect what would be her dieing wishes or something? i mean come on
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | → | Archive 7 |
I would like to respectfully point out that the article cites this BBC article as support that Brandon was transsexual. The article refers to her as "she" and as a "girl." I don't agree with the usage of pronouns in the Wikipedia article. However, as I've said previously I have no wish to edit war over it and will not, but only would like to remind that pronoun usage in no way defines trollish or vandalistic behaviour in the context of this article. Thanks for listening. Gwen Gale 11:01, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
Ok, so I tried cleaning up the referances a little bit because they were hard to accsess and understand... at least for me. Could someone work on them? I just made in worse >.< Eirra 18:24, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
Indeed, with regards to content, caution should be exhibited. When content/context is added, we need to be careful to use encyclopedic language. The article is tending to read like a novelette. Zue Jay ( talk) 22:53, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
Is simply not notable enough to be encyclopedic on an article about Brandon Teena, and I've reverted the inclusion of the link by anon. Sorry, but it's my opinion (pretty strong opinion after a bit of research) that Gage's essay (posted on an unverifiable web site, no less) simply does not meet the standards to be cited as a valid source on WP, in terms of notability, undue weight, verifiability, etc. for starters. -- User:RyanFreisling @ 23:09, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
The article drops random names as if we are supposed to know who they are. Editing for proper introductions to people requested.
-- unsigned at 10:23, 28 March 2007 by
An anon keeps reverting the section stating that Brandon Teena had dated Lisa Lambert prior to the murders, citing personal experience. Needless to say, that's not sufficient for WP. The anon then put a link in to what appears to be a Dutch site, without apparent attribution or verifiability that did not appear to back up the assertion. In a few minutes of searching I found this:
If there is indeed a source to substantiate they were not dating, please provide it. I frankly don't care about this issue either way, but we need to reflect the verifiable facts of this case in the article, not anonymous accounts. Thoughts? -- User:RyanFreisling @ 14:31, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
I am the anon you talk of and I am at a loss of how to provide proof of what is in my head. My ex is the former Carrie Gross, Lisa Lamberts roommate at the time of the murders. This is substantiated in both a book "All She Wanted", thru numerous articles on line, and several TV shows including A&E American Justice "The Life and Death of Teena Brandon" plus the doc "The Brandon Teena Story". If anyone would know the actual facts it would be Lisa Lamberts former roommate. She has stated that Brandon and Lisa were never an item and never dated. I have yet to see any truly verifiable source that says they were actually dating. As for me, I have a site on Yahoo: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Brandon93/ It is a member only site to keep out porn bots, so just ask and I will be more than happy to open the door for you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12:04, 31 March 2007 ( talk • contribs) 63.215.29.115
I am trying to understand your point. How is it GLAAD has information that is correct, when I knew the victim on a personal basis and mine is hearsay? My ex not only knew all 3 victims, she was living in the same house as all 3. How is it GLAAD knows more than any of us who were there? I am trying to understand what makes them a verifiable source of information over someone they never knew, and not a spinner of tall tails to advance their own agenda.
No. No more questions. I am done with wiki. Thanks for checking out my web site to verify who I am. Good day.
personal attack deleted—The preceding
unsigned comment was added by
63.215.29.119 (
talk)
20:33, 14 April 2007 (UTC).
I see this user is back and reverting to a version eliminating the mention of Lisa Lambert as Brandon's girlfriend at the time of his move to Falls City. Note that when Brandon was killed, he was killed in Lambert's bed. In light of the mention of this fact in the article and the three sources that establish that they were dating when Brandon moved in, I consider it more informative to include the 'girlfriend' information in the 'Living in Falls City' section. If there is evidence other than an anon claiming personal knowledge (as discussed earlier in this section), please cite it. -- User:RyanFreisling @ 23:08, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
In this part of Nebraska if you move in with a girlfriend and start dating her friends you won't wake up one morning. This entire sentence makes Lisa and Brandon sound like a couple of freaks. They were neither. And Brandon was found dead on top of her bed at the foot, not in her bed. Lisa was covered up, Brandon was not. As for calling this vandalism, it was not. There are more than a few people who disagree with this statement. You encourage people to make chages as long as they agree with your view? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 63.215.29.115 ( talk • contribs).
I am well aware the fate Teena Brandon suffered. We all are and is one of the reason's we came in here. And yet Lisa is not only lumped into being the girlfriend of someone she was only good friends with, she evidently didn't mind him messing around behind her back with her friends. This is all so wrong. She helped out someone in need and now she gets labeled as a cheap loser who's supposed boyfriend likes to cheat on her with her supposed friends. That just isn't right. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 63.215.29.115 ( talk • contribs).
Perhaps this should stand as a lesson for us all. Lisa opened her home and risk (and lost) her life to help a very troubled soul. And now she and her son get to pay for it. Clearing her name won't be possible, so perhaps this will serve as a lesson to the rest of us who would have tried to help someone like this in the past. Maybe this will actually save some other innocent life. Lesson learned. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 63.215.29.115 ( talk • contribs).
Hope so. Thanks for your views on the matter and I'm sorry you feel that way. Now, will you please agree to stop making uncited edits and to provide valid citations to validate your future edits? Again, thanks. -- User:RyanFreisling @ 00:07, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
As I see it, you found one source stating that Lisa and Brandon dated. I don't see how that one source can block out others that do not support you view. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Faytay2002 ( talk • contribs).
Funny. I find it disruptive that you continue be so set on providing inaccurate information. Those sources you used sound exactly the same. Like they were taken word for word and used as a source for each other. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Faytay2002 ( talk • contribs).
I never said they were in collusion. Calling this an encyclopedia article is an insult to encyclopedias. Is it not well known that it was in fact Lana Tisdale who was Brandon's girlfriend? While Lisa may have had feelings for Brandon, and I don't know that she did, it does not in fact mean they were dating.
I will not give you a 'no' since I am not done with this yet.
Lisa has often been linked, mistakenly, with Teena Brandon as a romantic partnership. Lisa's only true love was her son Tanner. "Brandon" was seeking refuge from her attackers and she gladly gave comfort and shelter to a bruised and battered human being. For this she gave her life.
www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page_gr&GRid=17993044
I just gave you evidence. I did not say I have first hand knowledge. I do not. Earlier you stated you don't care either way if they dated or not. So why do you continue to change what I and others have been taking out? I think you have me confussed with another user. We are not the same person. Faytay2002 01:16, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
According to SOAPBOX propaganda and advocacy is not allowed. And yet many of the cites being listed here are from GLAAD or liked to them, which clearly has an agenda to advance their own cause (as do most groups). Isn't allowing such cites a violation of the spirit of your own rules in wiki?
Then please explain how such a source, that you know will not be unjaded, is notable?
Marvin Thomas Nissen, 22, also of Falls City, has been convicted of one count of first degree murder in the death of Brandon Teena and two counts of second degree murder in the deaths of Lisa Lambert, whom Brandon was living with at the time, and Phillip DeVine, a friend who http://drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu/~julie/text/teenrage.html
No mention of girlfriend. Just the person Brandon was living with at the time. And to your above comment, it is also debated whether Brandon was truly transgendered or not. Her greatest fear, according to acquaintances, was to be touched sexually by a man, and she was especially afraid of being raped. In fact, one male relative had exposed her to repeated sexual abuse, so her male appearance was as much a disguise as a guise. taken from www.crimelibrary.com
Faytay2002 01:46, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
How is it anything I give you you argue with? What is illogical is how set you are on fighting about this. I have to ask again, if you don't care as you stated before, why do you insist on putting it back in? Faytay2002 01:53, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
www.cnn.com/2003/us/central/12/28/brandon.death.transgender.ap/index.html
John Lotter and Marvin Nissen were convicted of murdering Teena, who had dated a female friend of the two men. They also killed Lisa Lambert, 24, and Philip DeVine, 22, who had witnessed Teena's death in a farmhouse. Faytay2002 02:01, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
Just because a group is named Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation does not mean they do not posses an agenda. What makes this group scholarly and quotable? If a group has an agenda what makes anything they publish reliable, verifiable, or neutral as required by wiki guidlines? I think this is crossing the line and this entire project is tainted.
So you are saying that they must have been dating just because they lived together for awhile? I'd say that is a fallacy on your part. And again, I am NOT the person who posted about my ex knowing the victim. I have found several sources for you now that mention Lisa as only the person he was living with, not a girlfriend. The fact that these sources have omitted this fact is because it is not true. If in fact he had been dating, doesn't it seem reasonable that the cnn article would have stated that? But they didn't. It was stated that he had been dating a friend of the killers. That was in the article because that is the truth. Faytay2002 02:15, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
Also, using the very wiki sourses you refer to, the cites provided are invalid as well. It clearly states a source must be neutral. How can you justify otherwise?
Yet again, you are confussing me with another. I have no personal claims, as I did not know any of these victims. But I fail to see your point that these articles would leave out an important fact such as any kind of romantic relationship they may have had. If it had been true, it would have been stated. But it was not. It was stated he was dating another woman, but living with Lisa. Faytay2002 02:31, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
By reinforcing the importance of including verifiable research produced by others….How does GLAAD fit into verifiable research?. “There is no firm definition of reliable, although most of us have a good intuition about the meaning of the word. In general, the most reliable sources are books and journals published by university presses; mainstream newspapers; and magazines and journals published by known publishing houses. Again, explain to me how anything from GLAAD fits this criteria.
Link to that text, please? Here's mine (with a link):
I have to agree with the other poster Ryan. I don't see how GLAAD can be called reliable when it is neither "books and journals published by university presses; mainstream newspapers; and magazines and journals published by known publishing houses". Seems CNN would be a more reliable source than anything from GLAAD. Faytay2002 03:02, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
Thanks. Using the above statement, how is it GLAAD is a book or journal published by a university press; mainstream newspaper; a magazine or journal published by a known publishing house? I can't see how they can be used as a source and still meet any of the criteria. That is like allowing the American National Socialist Party to write the story of Adolf Hitler. I am not trying to link them to NAZI's, it is just an easy example of how someone with an agenda towards its members will not provide as a source you can count upon. (Can NAZI's read or write, anyway? I never met one.)
Hello Alison. I am far from running out of arguments. There are dozens more to come, just using the links inside wiki that RF gave me to read. I can get some reading done on what is legal and allowed and I will be back within a few days. Thanks for all the help tonight. I think we shall be in for an interesting few days. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.215.29.115 ( talk • contribs)
Legal threats? Against wiki? That would be a huge waste of time and money. No, this is more of a challenge. To know the truth and fight for it. Even if someone else will eventually come along and change it back to something wrong again. I like a good challenge. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.215.29.115 ( talk • contribs)
Taken from All She Wanted by Aphrodite Jones
"When Reanna got back outside, Daphne had just pulled up with Carrie Gross, her buddy from Humbolt." p. 115 fyi- Reanna and Daphne were girlfriends of Brandon's while still in Lincoln. I am only posting this to bring up Carrie Gross, who was Lisa Lambert's roommate.
"When Brandon and Daphne arrived, they didn't even see Humbolt. It was one of the coldest autumns in Nebraska on record, so they saw nothing but bleak winter farmland. Carrie brought them directly to Lisa Lambert's farmhouse, a tiny gray one-story shack with three small bedrooms just two miles south of town. Lisa rented the place for $125 a month, so she could afford to be gracious, and let friends stay there for little or no charge. Carrie Gross and her boyfriend Mike Lang were already living there off and on, so hosting Carrie's friends wasn't a big deal." p. 118
Here is the proof you have been asking for that shows Brandon did not move in with his "girlfriend" Lisa Lambert. Faytay2002 15:10, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
Actually, Jones book, which is published by a note worthy author and by a well known publishing house, meeting all of wiki's criteria, is the only true source meeting the strict rule of wikipedia for verifiability and NPOV. Her book is in direct conflict of much of this article, and many of the other sources being used to back up claims within this article. The name Brandon Teena in relation to Brandon in this book. The author, who used both family and friends, uses the name Brandon or Teena to refer to this person. Also, how is note 6 a valid not? It uses IMDB. IS this any more acceptable than the FIND A GRAVE that was shown earlier. Both of these are web site, not verifiable and certainly not legal by wiki standards. Either allow both to be cited or remove IMDB and note 6 as a cite.
Sure, now you have agreed we can start using Jones book to remove some of these other cites. For instance, number 6 that you ignored me post on. It is invalid by using your own criteria. It is a web site and not a true wiki notable source. Thanks Ryan, I think we can do bussiness together now.
That is fine. I notice you have added a cite for FindAGrave for Teena Brandon. Please add this one as well for Lisa Lambert http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=17993044. If Find a Grave is a valid source then let us use it all of it as such.
If one cite on Find A Grave is allowed, then all must be allowed. You can't use one page and not another on the same web site. Either allow Lisa Lamberts page or exclude the Brandon page. Speaking of names, I am still looking thru Jones book and at no point is the term Brandon Teena used. Not from the mother, any family member, none of the frineds, or even from Brandon himself. This appears to be a term rather than a name.
All I could find in the cite was this reference: ""Brandon" came into Humboldt, about eighty miles south of Lincoln, and stayed with a girl named Lisa Lambert. Lisa fell in love with him, but he soon had his eye on someone else. That's what got him into more trouble than he'd bargained for." Can someone show me where it says Lisa was a girlfriend?
-- User:RyanFreisling @ 00:42, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
why do they keep saying that shes a guy hes a girl its as simple as that she tried to make her self look like a guy and lied to everyone but she still was a girl by saying that shes a guy and referring to her as he are they who wrote the article trying to respect what would be her dieing wishes or something? i mean come on