This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 |
When does the brain stop growing?
--- Someone else 12:02 Dec 7, 2002 (UTC)
White matter of human brains, which are the most slow to mature of all animal brians, is not fully formed until after adolescence. Until recently researchers poorly understood the role of glial networks that comprise white matter, but recent research indicates they contribute much more to cognitive and behavioral functions than previous theories, which suggested they merely provide nourishment and structural support for grey matter. Late developing white matter is associated with imature behavior of late adolescents who enjoy reasonably well developed computational abilities without the more generalized ability to form associations facilitated by the ATP and Calcium mediated networks of the glial cells. Poor white matter development, and concomitant poor judgement and impulsive behavior, often presents in young adults who may excel at academic tasks but perform poorly in functions requiring social skills or leadership. Well nourished adolescents exposed to meaningful socialization and leadership experiences often perform better at these functions than late developing young adults. RaymondByrd 02:19, 15 Apr 2004 (UTC)
Thanks - someone told me it stopped growing in size between the ages of 9-12. Is that true?
The neuroscience/brain material could do with a bit of reorganization.
In my view, some of the material in this article ought to be moved to a new one on the Human brain, with this article being kept for brains in general.
We also need some navigation resources. E.g., List of regions in the human brain (which should be hierarchical).
Washington irving 22:10, 16 Feb 2004 (UTC)
---
agreed. Descriptive problems relating to animal/vertebrate/mammal/human distinctions plague much of Wikipedia's current anatomy and physiology content. My hope is that inclusion of precise distinctions here and there will eventually inspire someone to better develop comparative anatomy/physiology in appropriate articles.
Also agreed on the need for navigation resources, both vertically as you recommend and horizontally toward functionality and systems-related articles relevant to each region at each level. Brodmann areas might provide a useful list, too.
I notice you removed brain/csf barrier. That came from a neuroanatomy text but I at least will need to review that source before I can make any intelligable comment about it.
SoCal 02:45, 17 Feb 2004 (UTC)
I'm glad somebody tried to fix it, but I don't have much confidence in the fixed list either. And I don't know what the idea is splattering those brain images all over the page. There are tasteful ways to present an image of human organs, and that's just not it.
____ fixed image Bird
I reverted images to the original placement that I selected after I located the images, changed the backrounds, toned them, uploaded them, tried several layouts and then placed them on the appropriate page. I don't know of any objective basis for the assertion that the images were placed in a "strange" manner. There are style guidelines for images, which I reviewed, but I found nothing to support a contention that anything should be one way or another. If there is discussion of style, I would encourage use of a style that allows flexibility so that each page is not identical, and that accomodates unique images.
After considering several placements and arrangements, I selected one which seemed to best use the lines of the images to both attract a reader's eye to the text and to encourage comparison of the relative shapes of the two primary images.
In this case, if the mouse brain were to be on the right side, it needs to be away from the margin by at least 20px, and it should not be the actual size mouse brain but rather one that is sized to attract appropriate interest to that far edge of the page. But at that size, the relative (though not to scale) sizes of the human brain and mouse brain are lost. Also the dangling brain stem of the smaller image above and left of the larger images best encourages appreciation of the similartities of the two organs. Bird 04:30, 8 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Im new to Wikipedia and did not wan't to try editing the page myself. However, there is a sentence in the brain article that begins, "Small vertebrates, like insects...". Im not a zoologist. But, I'm almost certain insects do not have vertebra.
Good point. You should go ahead and fix this error. Washington irving 10:01, 8 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Someone should also check the "million billion" figure quoted. I'm pretty sure I have read smaller estimates for the human brain (one of the larger ones). Google search shows 100 billion is a common figure. I don't know how many cells there are in the cetacean brains (which are even bigger). Sometimes these estimates include cerebellum, sometimes not (which may account for some of the variation). Some may include glial cells. Probably best to express large numbers as powers of ten as billion means different things to different people. Washington irving 10:37, 8 Mar 2004 (UTC)
- Lexor| Talk 15:18, 8 Mar 2004 (UTC)
whoever you are, im not your friend and I don't wnat to be. YOur platitudes nausiate me. If I were you I would bother with your own actions and quit telling other poeple what to do. If somebody wrote soemthing or contributed sometyhing and they later say it was wrong and that images were not fairly used, and they retract it, it is not your mission in life to fight for their creation. You are probably going to become some overlord boss that spends his six figure salary paying cheap service workers to follow your orders. If you wanted this person to contribute, you could have watcyhed and learned, adn ADDED when you had something to ADD. You had notyhing to contribute until you smelled an opportunity to play dictator.
Just remember not to ==Please stop changing the complete article==
I don't know if the changes you are making are accurate, but they are making the article less useful by removing the markup for links, removing images and just in general changing everything. Please incorporate your changes into the article itself (without destroying everything) or talk about it on this page before doing so (with others who know more about this subject than I do). Thank you. RadicalBender 20:13, 8 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Somebody locked this page in a version that was disavowed by the very person that wrote it. I don't know what the value is of an open source encyclopedia that freezes when somebody puts up wrong information. The brain list is all wrong, and the regions, god only knows whats up. I think the earlier version before somebody tried to change it and add all those pictures was best.
The human brain picture appears to be an edited version of an image at [2] a US government website. The site links to an official NIMH disclaimer which reads:
There is no indication that the image is copyright on the page in which it is shown. There is thus everty reason to believe it is in the public domain. Washington irving 20:58, 8 Mar 2004 (UTC)
WEll aren't you proud. You got free pictures, toned and placed to your demands, and all you had to do is sit around and bite people in the ass. And now you not only have your free article, you have a new vandal to hate, plus one less identitie with whom your ego must contend when tending your pet flock of articles. So you've locked an article written by a vandal. Bully Bully for you.
To whom it may concern: User talk:Bird/Brain and stuff holds information regarding the conduct of Wikipedia contributors (including User:Bird) and of system administrators regarding the content of this and other articles.
Shown approximately to scale That's cute. Who made that up? one of the lead science editors? It seems they quit listening to the artist earlier today and they don't know anything about the scale. Anybody who knows their stuff knows that is a right lobe, anyway. Artist probably thought nobody around here cared if it was right or not. If I recall, the artist had considered including a neccessary reference to specify that the images are not to scale. From what I know, there was developing a collection of literature on relative brain sizes to enhance accuracy of these grossly anthrocentric stubs. For my part, I wouldn't want to write about it in an environment where allegiance to group process is more important than allegiance to factual accuracy.
They are not to scale. What kind of cat is that, anyway? A lion? Panther? Is kitten? Is that a rat? Or a lab mouse? That would be one big mouse with a brain that size, compared to the human brain. Probably a rat?
I deleted this paragraph from the overview section:
Along the phylogenic scale three distinctive regions emerged in the chordate neural scheme. Sensory faculties organized around the regions. Olfactory senses were associated with the forebrain, visual senses with the midbrain, and other senses developed pathways in the hindbrain. Grey matter developed from each of the sections forming the cerebrum, the tectum, and the cerebellum.
Although the intent was good, the information here is not entirely correct. The midbrain has little to do with visual processing and the hindbrain is mostly involved in autonomic function. Grey matter can be found throughout the brain and in the spinal cord. Although a short overview of anatomy and phylogeny is important in the overview, I think it should be a bit more accessable to a general audience. Sayeth 19:32, Aug 13, 2004 (UTC)
In this edit I merged the contents of Mind Myths here, per that page's VfD result. I haven't checked the accuracy of that information. dbenbenn | talk 21:12, 23 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Ah, good... From the start of this page, i thought i'd come to the wrong place. Finally, it became clear that this could be a good place to ask my question.
I was refered to Wikipedia while looking up the word "iter." Wikipedia's only referance i could find so far is:
... "ITER is a proposed international experiment designed to show the scientific and technological feasibility of a fusion power reactor. It builds upon research conducted on devices such as TFTR, JET, JT-60 and T-15, and will be considerably larger than all of them....... "
Other sources told me it is also a medical passage in the brain.
My Question is: Where should the medical terms be put?
I would be happy to do it if someone suggests where to put it.
Hi. Um... Wikibob reverted an edit of mine without explanation. Except in cases of obvious vandalism, I think an editor should explain their reverts, either in their edit summary, or on the talk page. All that I did was:
If my explainations were incorrect, I think they should be corrected, but not removed. Thanks. func (talk) 16:28, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Is it true that people used to eat animal brains for food? I think that's disgusting! Scorpionman 18:17, 23 May 2005 (UTC)
The sentence that mental abilities do not decrease with age because our mental abilities depend (only) on how much we use brain seems like a politically correct slogan. Where did the author get it? And what does he mean "how much we use brains"? We use brains 24 hours a day, unless we are in a coma. Does he mean that brains of all people are absolutely the same? It is simply not true. Or does he mean that the differences in brain weight/structure of people has nothing to do with mental abilities? Or that they are entirely because some people "use brains more" than others?
So I reverted this.
See also following link: http://my.webmd.com/content/article/75/89828.htm
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 |
When does the brain stop growing?
--- Someone else 12:02 Dec 7, 2002 (UTC)
White matter of human brains, which are the most slow to mature of all animal brians, is not fully formed until after adolescence. Until recently researchers poorly understood the role of glial networks that comprise white matter, but recent research indicates they contribute much more to cognitive and behavioral functions than previous theories, which suggested they merely provide nourishment and structural support for grey matter. Late developing white matter is associated with imature behavior of late adolescents who enjoy reasonably well developed computational abilities without the more generalized ability to form associations facilitated by the ATP and Calcium mediated networks of the glial cells. Poor white matter development, and concomitant poor judgement and impulsive behavior, often presents in young adults who may excel at academic tasks but perform poorly in functions requiring social skills or leadership. Well nourished adolescents exposed to meaningful socialization and leadership experiences often perform better at these functions than late developing young adults. RaymondByrd 02:19, 15 Apr 2004 (UTC)
Thanks - someone told me it stopped growing in size between the ages of 9-12. Is that true?
The neuroscience/brain material could do with a bit of reorganization.
In my view, some of the material in this article ought to be moved to a new one on the Human brain, with this article being kept for brains in general.
We also need some navigation resources. E.g., List of regions in the human brain (which should be hierarchical).
Washington irving 22:10, 16 Feb 2004 (UTC)
---
agreed. Descriptive problems relating to animal/vertebrate/mammal/human distinctions plague much of Wikipedia's current anatomy and physiology content. My hope is that inclusion of precise distinctions here and there will eventually inspire someone to better develop comparative anatomy/physiology in appropriate articles.
Also agreed on the need for navigation resources, both vertically as you recommend and horizontally toward functionality and systems-related articles relevant to each region at each level. Brodmann areas might provide a useful list, too.
I notice you removed brain/csf barrier. That came from a neuroanatomy text but I at least will need to review that source before I can make any intelligable comment about it.
SoCal 02:45, 17 Feb 2004 (UTC)
I'm glad somebody tried to fix it, but I don't have much confidence in the fixed list either. And I don't know what the idea is splattering those brain images all over the page. There are tasteful ways to present an image of human organs, and that's just not it.
____ fixed image Bird
I reverted images to the original placement that I selected after I located the images, changed the backrounds, toned them, uploaded them, tried several layouts and then placed them on the appropriate page. I don't know of any objective basis for the assertion that the images were placed in a "strange" manner. There are style guidelines for images, which I reviewed, but I found nothing to support a contention that anything should be one way or another. If there is discussion of style, I would encourage use of a style that allows flexibility so that each page is not identical, and that accomodates unique images.
After considering several placements and arrangements, I selected one which seemed to best use the lines of the images to both attract a reader's eye to the text and to encourage comparison of the relative shapes of the two primary images.
In this case, if the mouse brain were to be on the right side, it needs to be away from the margin by at least 20px, and it should not be the actual size mouse brain but rather one that is sized to attract appropriate interest to that far edge of the page. But at that size, the relative (though not to scale) sizes of the human brain and mouse brain are lost. Also the dangling brain stem of the smaller image above and left of the larger images best encourages appreciation of the similartities of the two organs. Bird 04:30, 8 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Im new to Wikipedia and did not wan't to try editing the page myself. However, there is a sentence in the brain article that begins, "Small vertebrates, like insects...". Im not a zoologist. But, I'm almost certain insects do not have vertebra.
Good point. You should go ahead and fix this error. Washington irving 10:01, 8 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Someone should also check the "million billion" figure quoted. I'm pretty sure I have read smaller estimates for the human brain (one of the larger ones). Google search shows 100 billion is a common figure. I don't know how many cells there are in the cetacean brains (which are even bigger). Sometimes these estimates include cerebellum, sometimes not (which may account for some of the variation). Some may include glial cells. Probably best to express large numbers as powers of ten as billion means different things to different people. Washington irving 10:37, 8 Mar 2004 (UTC)
- Lexor| Talk 15:18, 8 Mar 2004 (UTC)
whoever you are, im not your friend and I don't wnat to be. YOur platitudes nausiate me. If I were you I would bother with your own actions and quit telling other poeple what to do. If somebody wrote soemthing or contributed sometyhing and they later say it was wrong and that images were not fairly used, and they retract it, it is not your mission in life to fight for their creation. You are probably going to become some overlord boss that spends his six figure salary paying cheap service workers to follow your orders. If you wanted this person to contribute, you could have watcyhed and learned, adn ADDED when you had something to ADD. You had notyhing to contribute until you smelled an opportunity to play dictator.
Just remember not to ==Please stop changing the complete article==
I don't know if the changes you are making are accurate, but they are making the article less useful by removing the markup for links, removing images and just in general changing everything. Please incorporate your changes into the article itself (without destroying everything) or talk about it on this page before doing so (with others who know more about this subject than I do). Thank you. RadicalBender 20:13, 8 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Somebody locked this page in a version that was disavowed by the very person that wrote it. I don't know what the value is of an open source encyclopedia that freezes when somebody puts up wrong information. The brain list is all wrong, and the regions, god only knows whats up. I think the earlier version before somebody tried to change it and add all those pictures was best.
The human brain picture appears to be an edited version of an image at [2] a US government website. The site links to an official NIMH disclaimer which reads:
There is no indication that the image is copyright on the page in which it is shown. There is thus everty reason to believe it is in the public domain. Washington irving 20:58, 8 Mar 2004 (UTC)
WEll aren't you proud. You got free pictures, toned and placed to your demands, and all you had to do is sit around and bite people in the ass. And now you not only have your free article, you have a new vandal to hate, plus one less identitie with whom your ego must contend when tending your pet flock of articles. So you've locked an article written by a vandal. Bully Bully for you.
To whom it may concern: User talk:Bird/Brain and stuff holds information regarding the conduct of Wikipedia contributors (including User:Bird) and of system administrators regarding the content of this and other articles.
Shown approximately to scale That's cute. Who made that up? one of the lead science editors? It seems they quit listening to the artist earlier today and they don't know anything about the scale. Anybody who knows their stuff knows that is a right lobe, anyway. Artist probably thought nobody around here cared if it was right or not. If I recall, the artist had considered including a neccessary reference to specify that the images are not to scale. From what I know, there was developing a collection of literature on relative brain sizes to enhance accuracy of these grossly anthrocentric stubs. For my part, I wouldn't want to write about it in an environment where allegiance to group process is more important than allegiance to factual accuracy.
They are not to scale. What kind of cat is that, anyway? A lion? Panther? Is kitten? Is that a rat? Or a lab mouse? That would be one big mouse with a brain that size, compared to the human brain. Probably a rat?
I deleted this paragraph from the overview section:
Along the phylogenic scale three distinctive regions emerged in the chordate neural scheme. Sensory faculties organized around the regions. Olfactory senses were associated with the forebrain, visual senses with the midbrain, and other senses developed pathways in the hindbrain. Grey matter developed from each of the sections forming the cerebrum, the tectum, and the cerebellum.
Although the intent was good, the information here is not entirely correct. The midbrain has little to do with visual processing and the hindbrain is mostly involved in autonomic function. Grey matter can be found throughout the brain and in the spinal cord. Although a short overview of anatomy and phylogeny is important in the overview, I think it should be a bit more accessable to a general audience. Sayeth 19:32, Aug 13, 2004 (UTC)
In this edit I merged the contents of Mind Myths here, per that page's VfD result. I haven't checked the accuracy of that information. dbenbenn | talk 21:12, 23 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Ah, good... From the start of this page, i thought i'd come to the wrong place. Finally, it became clear that this could be a good place to ask my question.
I was refered to Wikipedia while looking up the word "iter." Wikipedia's only referance i could find so far is:
... "ITER is a proposed international experiment designed to show the scientific and technological feasibility of a fusion power reactor. It builds upon research conducted on devices such as TFTR, JET, JT-60 and T-15, and will be considerably larger than all of them....... "
Other sources told me it is also a medical passage in the brain.
My Question is: Where should the medical terms be put?
I would be happy to do it if someone suggests where to put it.
Hi. Um... Wikibob reverted an edit of mine without explanation. Except in cases of obvious vandalism, I think an editor should explain their reverts, either in their edit summary, or on the talk page. All that I did was:
If my explainations were incorrect, I think they should be corrected, but not removed. Thanks. func (talk) 16:28, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Is it true that people used to eat animal brains for food? I think that's disgusting! Scorpionman 18:17, 23 May 2005 (UTC)
The sentence that mental abilities do not decrease with age because our mental abilities depend (only) on how much we use brain seems like a politically correct slogan. Where did the author get it? And what does he mean "how much we use brains"? We use brains 24 hours a day, unless we are in a coma. Does he mean that brains of all people are absolutely the same? It is simply not true. Or does he mean that the differences in brain weight/structure of people has nothing to do with mental abilities? Or that they are entirely because some people "use brains more" than others?
So I reverted this.
See also following link: http://my.webmd.com/content/article/75/89828.htm