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The discussion wether "Rusyn" is a separate ethnicity or not does not belong to this page. Suppose it is, then what it has to do with Boykos? All of them or at least overhelming majority indentify themselves as Ukrainians. (Actually they fill themselves even more Ukrainian then "Easterners"). I understand that my personal impressions cannot be consider as a reliable source for Wikipedia article, but there are the census results. Well there was no ethnicity "Rusyn" in the list, but there was an option not to answer the question. So would do I, if my ethnicity would not be in the list. In fact, practically the whole population of the Boyko region did answered the question and the answer was "Ukrainian".
On the other hand, if somebody has a source that any considereble group of Boykos clame they were not Ukrainian but Rusysns, please add this information along with the appropriate reference.-- AndriyK 12:30, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
AndriyK, let me just make sure I understand your point because I am confused. IMO there are two questions here:
To the latter question there are clearly two opposing views that aren't reconsiled and, as such, we need to present both when discussing it. However, this is indeed an issue better left to other articles. To the former question, from what I read the answer is that Boyko, like Lemko are Rusyns. Are you saying that they aren't? Because if they are, than by adding to the article the phrase that Boyko, being Rusyns, "consider themselves Ukrainian", you answer the question 2 that has no answer yet.
Also, could you please post a link to the census page where Rusyns are metnioned as an option. I didn't find it there but the web-site is not made easy to navigate.
I am glad that you find the articles I added as references to Rusyns page so useful that you add them to other pages. Of course I don't mind that, but the particular article you picked doesn't belong here. That article is about how the Ukrainians as the nation got their current name. It has nothing to do with the question of people who are called Rusyns in the 20th century.
And why did you remove the very mention of the Austrian Empire. It is not by coinsidence, that Ukrainians who lived under the Empire became known today as Rusyns. The reason is that Austria encouraged the view that they are not the same people as other Ukrainians to further detach them from Ukrainians that where under Russia. In return for Ukrainianss (or Rusyns') loyalty, Austria was carrying the most permissive policies towards the Ukrainian culture. For example books written by Ukrainian writers could not be printed in Russian Empire where publishing in Ukrainian was banned by the Ems Ukaz. They were published in Austria-controlled parts of the Western Ukraine and smuggled to the East. -- Irpen 05:24, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
Please avoid condenscending remarks on how I should spend my time. With this recent spree of yours you should do much writing before you can be talking to others about productive time. You didn't answer the question about your exclusion of the mention of the Austrian Empire. As for the ref, the article you added has nothing to do with the issue since it is about Ukrainians in general and about the etymolgy of the term. If you want to add a ref that argues that Rusyns in general and Boykos in particular are Ukrainians, you may use a different article from the same paper [2] that says:
Talking is a good way to resolve differences. -- Irpen 19:48, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
I have ancestors with the surname Bobko and I'm 95% sure some of them lived in Dolyna. Anyone know if Bobko is essentially the same (changed spelling over the years) as Boiko/Bojko/Boyko? Could the surname mean someone from this Slavic tribe?
77.52.154.29 ( talk) 07:44, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
This discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
---|
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
With regard to the discussion, please mind that ethnicity is not only about self-identity and declaration. I can't speak Chinese and have no Chinese roots. Suppose that from tomorrow on, I start identifying myself as Chinee. Does it make me any Chinese? I agree the "declrativeness" is essential here but the issue is much more complex. Zbihniew 08:40, 18 April 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zbihniew ( talk • contribs)
77.52.154.34 ( talk) 08:24, 14 June 2013 (UTC) angried ukrainian Don't be mad mr. angry genocidal Ukrainian, the Boykos, Lemkos, Gorals, Hutsuls are not belonging to the Ukrainian, Slovak, Polish, Czech, etc. identifiers. They are strongly independent and culturally different from the populations of the countries they live in. They unanimously come from the Vlach shepherds that came to the region. StevenJac ( talk) 02:04, 30 September 2017 (UTC)
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The discussion wether "Rusyn" is a separate ethnicity or not does not belong to this page. Suppose it is, then what it has to do with Boykos? All of them or at least overhelming majority indentify themselves as Ukrainians. (Actually they fill themselves even more Ukrainian then "Easterners"). I understand that my personal impressions cannot be consider as a reliable source for Wikipedia article, but there are the census results. Well there was no ethnicity "Rusyn" in the list, but there was an option not to answer the question. So would do I, if my ethnicity would not be in the list. In fact, practically the whole population of the Boyko region did answered the question and the answer was "Ukrainian".
On the other hand, if somebody has a source that any considereble group of Boykos clame they were not Ukrainian but Rusysns, please add this information along with the appropriate reference.-- AndriyK 12:30, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
AndriyK, let me just make sure I understand your point because I am confused. IMO there are two questions here:
To the latter question there are clearly two opposing views that aren't reconsiled and, as such, we need to present both when discussing it. However, this is indeed an issue better left to other articles. To the former question, from what I read the answer is that Boyko, like Lemko are Rusyns. Are you saying that they aren't? Because if they are, than by adding to the article the phrase that Boyko, being Rusyns, "consider themselves Ukrainian", you answer the question 2 that has no answer yet.
Also, could you please post a link to the census page where Rusyns are metnioned as an option. I didn't find it there but the web-site is not made easy to navigate.
I am glad that you find the articles I added as references to Rusyns page so useful that you add them to other pages. Of course I don't mind that, but the particular article you picked doesn't belong here. That article is about how the Ukrainians as the nation got their current name. It has nothing to do with the question of people who are called Rusyns in the 20th century.
And why did you remove the very mention of the Austrian Empire. It is not by coinsidence, that Ukrainians who lived under the Empire became known today as Rusyns. The reason is that Austria encouraged the view that they are not the same people as other Ukrainians to further detach them from Ukrainians that where under Russia. In return for Ukrainianss (or Rusyns') loyalty, Austria was carrying the most permissive policies towards the Ukrainian culture. For example books written by Ukrainian writers could not be printed in Russian Empire where publishing in Ukrainian was banned by the Ems Ukaz. They were published in Austria-controlled parts of the Western Ukraine and smuggled to the East. -- Irpen 05:24, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
Please avoid condenscending remarks on how I should spend my time. With this recent spree of yours you should do much writing before you can be talking to others about productive time. You didn't answer the question about your exclusion of the mention of the Austrian Empire. As for the ref, the article you added has nothing to do with the issue since it is about Ukrainians in general and about the etymolgy of the term. If you want to add a ref that argues that Rusyns in general and Boykos in particular are Ukrainians, you may use a different article from the same paper [2] that says:
Talking is a good way to resolve differences. -- Irpen 19:48, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
I have ancestors with the surname Bobko and I'm 95% sure some of them lived in Dolyna. Anyone know if Bobko is essentially the same (changed spelling over the years) as Boiko/Bojko/Boyko? Could the surname mean someone from this Slavic tribe?
77.52.154.29 ( talk) 07:44, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
This discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
---|
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
With regard to the discussion, please mind that ethnicity is not only about self-identity and declaration. I can't speak Chinese and have no Chinese roots. Suppose that from tomorrow on, I start identifying myself as Chinee. Does it make me any Chinese? I agree the "declrativeness" is essential here but the issue is much more complex. Zbihniew 08:40, 18 April 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zbihniew ( talk • contribs)
77.52.154.34 ( talk) 08:24, 14 June 2013 (UTC) angried ukrainian Don't be mad mr. angry genocidal Ukrainian, the Boykos, Lemkos, Gorals, Hutsuls are not belonging to the Ukrainian, Slovak, Polish, Czech, etc. identifiers. They are strongly independent and culturally different from the populations of the countries they live in. They unanimously come from the Vlach shepherds that came to the region. StevenJac ( talk) 02:04, 30 September 2017 (UTC)
|
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 3 external links on Boykos. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{
Sourcecheck}}
).
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 22:58, 6 November 2016 (UTC)