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This section should be deleted:
Despite Packer saying "I am not recommending that course," Packer's comments constitute an endorsement of gay bashing, and the church itself endorses such behavior by continuing to publish Packer's speech in pamphlet form.[15][16]
Because these claims are assumptions, they must be attributed to a person as an opinion. Ejnogarb ( talk) 04:06, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
Packer's views have been recently confirmed in a sermon he gave in April 2009. This is published on the official LDS website. They are highly relevant as they indicate this stance has not altered over time. It is a matter of fact that he said what he did. Why does somebody have a problem with this? You are deleting accurate factual information. Is this because it is "true but not useful"? You demonstarte bias by removing this paragraph. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.3.22.62 ( talk) 12:44, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
Oh, WikiPedia. Home to all that is timid. Are we really supposed to pretend that there's no "controversy" over Packer's statement, just because nobody has posted it to their Blog yet? This is what's so infuriating about WikiPedia these days, and why it's become next to useless. You can find ten thousand words on fictional Light Sabre techniques, but if one of the leaders of a major American religion says something stupid and homophobic on national television, WikiPedia pretends that it couldn't possibly have caused any "controversy". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.33.202.98 ( talk) 23:10, 6 October 2010 (UTC)
I am thinking that this statement attributed to Packer should be included in the 'controversy' section, but I am willing to insert it into another part of the article if other editors believe it would be a better fit elsewhere. Cheers. Duke53 | Talk 04:14, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
"That historian or scholar who delights in pointing out the weaknesses and frailties of present or past leaders destroys faith. A destroyer of faith — particularly one within the Church, and more particularly one who is employed specifically to build faith — places himself in great spiritual jeopardy. He is serving the wrong master, and unless he repents, he will not be among the faithful in the eternities. ... Do not spread disease germs"!
It would help to know how much of the quote to include if we had a reliable source that discusses the "controversy" surrounding the speech, but right now we don't have that. But anyway, I was a little bit familiar with the speech, but the only part I had ever heard discussed as being controversial was the part Trodel is leaving in. The other part could be seen as controversial, but it's not part of the speech I ever hear quoted. Not having a source to demonstrate otherwise, I would say from my point of view the part Trodel is including is the important part of the speech and is probably the only part that needs to be included. Good Ol’factory (talk) 06:30, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
I agree partly with Trödel and Good Ol’factory. I'd go the more extreme and remove the quote entirely per WP:BLP until a reliable source is provided that calls the quote controversial or notable. Otherwise, it's our own opinion that the quote is controversial or notable, and conjectural interpretation of a source. The reliable source would then determine which parts of the quote to use. So, I'd say, per WP:BLP, remove the quote entirely to the talk page where the final form can be discussed, and once a consensus is reached the quote and secondary source can be put back. -- FyzixFighter ( talk) 14:52, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
So now some of the same quotes have been included in a new section called "Some of Packer's teachings". Now there is no mention of "controversy", but there are still no secondary sources referred to. Shouldn't we still have some reliable sources that discuss these teachings in particular, rather than just WP editors selecting what to include from the many primary sources that include Packer's teachings? Good Ol’factory (talk) 21:44, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
I just added the OR notice to this section. I still see no secondary sources, but only a synthesis of the information by Wikipedia editors along with references to the source material which is the very definition of Original Research. I'm sure that there are some secondary sources that could be quoted, as I've said from the beginning, and with COgden verifying that there are such sources (as opposed to Duke53's unreliable profers), I am just putting the notice on until addiitonal secondary sources are added to the article. -- Trödel 22:22, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
The reference to the talk "To the One" given in the References section ( http://www.lds-mormon.com/tto.shtml) seems to contain broken links to the images that are supposed to be the pages of the talk. Does anyone know if this site is still operational or if there is another location where the text/image of the talk can be found? Gandalf ( talk) 17:10, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
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It is stated in the article that Boyd K. Packer was a pilot in the Army Air Force. In the right sidebar it shows his rank as Senior Airman, with an image of the current U.S. Air Force rank of Senior Airman. This is incorrect because the rank of Senior Airman is an enlisted grade of the Air Force, and not the grade of a military pilot. Boyd was probably a Lieutenant, Captain, or Major when he was a pilot. The rank listed in the article, along with the symbol of that rank should be corrected. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.3.41.68 ( talk) 10:02, 27 April 2012 (UTC)
As Acting President of the Quorum of the Twelve, Packer dedicated the Regina Saskatchewan Temple. As President of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, he dedicated the Brigham City Utah Temple. I feel this information is pertinent enough to add, but the question is, where should it be added? Thoughts? -- Jgstokes-We can disagree without being disagreeable ( talk) 02:35, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
I noticed while rereading this article that the mention of Packer's participation in temples was not chronological. So I turned that information into its own section and made it chronological. I would be fine if it was to be edited to be worded better. I just don't want to see this section eliminated without discussion. Thoughts? -- Jgstokes ( talk) 04:27, 16 October 2013 (UTC)
Recently, in connection with Packer's call to the twelve, in referring to the new Church President, the word "ordained" replaced the word "appointed" because one editor felt it would violate WP:NPOV to imply that a Church President was appointed by God. My take on this issue: As an active member of the LDS Church, I believe that prophets truly are appointed by God. However, for WP purposes, the word "appointed" would still be accurate, as all Church Presidents since Brigham Young have been appointed by the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. So I feel it would be beneficial to employ both terms. Thoughts? -- Jgstokes-We can disagree without being disagreeable ( talk) 01:02, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
Makes sense to me. However, since they are also "appointed," I still feel both terms should be employed. A short explanation as to how that comes to pass would explain the term quite nicely. But I am just one voice, and I see your point. Any other thoughts? -- Jgstokes-We can disagree without being disagreeable ( talk) 17:23, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
Should an addition be made to the 'sexuality' section as an update? His recent talk (Spring 2013 General Conference) -- again encouraging intolerance strikes me as a necessary addition. The inclusion would support the other entries as not being occasional misstatements, but rather a recurring and favored theme. -sorry, I've forgotten my username, it's been so long since I made an entry... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 126.15.163.201 ( talk) 16:56, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
The existing version says Packer flew several bombing missions in WWII. That is not supported by any of the references. An Ensign article says this: "Young manhood came to Boyd Packer about the time World War II began. After graduation from high school, he worked for a time on construction of an army hospital in his hometown. Like many young LDS men of his generation, he was unable to serve a proselyting mission because of the war. In the spring of 1943, he enlisted in the Army Air Force, graduating as a pilot the following year, a few days before his twentieth birthday. He was then trained to fly bombers and ordered to the Pacific Theater. He was stationed in Japan for nearly a year after the end of the war." So he got his wings in September 1944, then went to bomber-training school. Another source says that he was on Okinawa when the war ended, then was stationed in Japan until 1946. I haven't found any official statement that he "flew in combat" as such. Therefore I am revising the text to agree. If someone can find certifiable details that the facts are otherwise, feel free to re-edit that section. Thanks ! -- Spray787 ( talk) 03:40, 8 July 2015 (UTC)
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Would the paragraphs on his teachings on homosexuality and history be better placed in a different section called "criticism"? Smachable ( talk) 17:48, 12 September 2019 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Boyd K. Packer article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | A news item involving Boyd K. Packer was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the In the news section on 6 July 2015. | ![]() |
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This section should be deleted:
Despite Packer saying "I am not recommending that course," Packer's comments constitute an endorsement of gay bashing, and the church itself endorses such behavior by continuing to publish Packer's speech in pamphlet form.[15][16]
Because these claims are assumptions, they must be attributed to a person as an opinion. Ejnogarb ( talk) 04:06, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
Packer's views have been recently confirmed in a sermon he gave in April 2009. This is published on the official LDS website. They are highly relevant as they indicate this stance has not altered over time. It is a matter of fact that he said what he did. Why does somebody have a problem with this? You are deleting accurate factual information. Is this because it is "true but not useful"? You demonstarte bias by removing this paragraph. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.3.22.62 ( talk) 12:44, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
Oh, WikiPedia. Home to all that is timid. Are we really supposed to pretend that there's no "controversy" over Packer's statement, just because nobody has posted it to their Blog yet? This is what's so infuriating about WikiPedia these days, and why it's become next to useless. You can find ten thousand words on fictional Light Sabre techniques, but if one of the leaders of a major American religion says something stupid and homophobic on national television, WikiPedia pretends that it couldn't possibly have caused any "controversy". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.33.202.98 ( talk) 23:10, 6 October 2010 (UTC)
I am thinking that this statement attributed to Packer should be included in the 'controversy' section, but I am willing to insert it into another part of the article if other editors believe it would be a better fit elsewhere. Cheers. Duke53 | Talk 04:14, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
"That historian or scholar who delights in pointing out the weaknesses and frailties of present or past leaders destroys faith. A destroyer of faith — particularly one within the Church, and more particularly one who is employed specifically to build faith — places himself in great spiritual jeopardy. He is serving the wrong master, and unless he repents, he will not be among the faithful in the eternities. ... Do not spread disease germs"!
It would help to know how much of the quote to include if we had a reliable source that discusses the "controversy" surrounding the speech, but right now we don't have that. But anyway, I was a little bit familiar with the speech, but the only part I had ever heard discussed as being controversial was the part Trodel is leaving in. The other part could be seen as controversial, but it's not part of the speech I ever hear quoted. Not having a source to demonstrate otherwise, I would say from my point of view the part Trodel is including is the important part of the speech and is probably the only part that needs to be included. Good Ol’factory (talk) 06:30, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
I agree partly with Trödel and Good Ol’factory. I'd go the more extreme and remove the quote entirely per WP:BLP until a reliable source is provided that calls the quote controversial or notable. Otherwise, it's our own opinion that the quote is controversial or notable, and conjectural interpretation of a source. The reliable source would then determine which parts of the quote to use. So, I'd say, per WP:BLP, remove the quote entirely to the talk page where the final form can be discussed, and once a consensus is reached the quote and secondary source can be put back. -- FyzixFighter ( talk) 14:52, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
So now some of the same quotes have been included in a new section called "Some of Packer's teachings". Now there is no mention of "controversy", but there are still no secondary sources referred to. Shouldn't we still have some reliable sources that discuss these teachings in particular, rather than just WP editors selecting what to include from the many primary sources that include Packer's teachings? Good Ol’factory (talk) 21:44, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
I just added the OR notice to this section. I still see no secondary sources, but only a synthesis of the information by Wikipedia editors along with references to the source material which is the very definition of Original Research. I'm sure that there are some secondary sources that could be quoted, as I've said from the beginning, and with COgden verifying that there are such sources (as opposed to Duke53's unreliable profers), I am just putting the notice on until addiitonal secondary sources are added to the article. -- Trödel 22:22, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
The reference to the talk "To the One" given in the References section ( http://www.lds-mormon.com/tto.shtml) seems to contain broken links to the images that are supposed to be the pages of the talk. Does anyone know if this site is still operational or if there is another location where the text/image of the talk can be found? Gandalf ( talk) 17:10, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
![]() |
An image used in this article,
File:Boyd K. Packer.JPG, has been nominated for deletion at
Wikimedia Commons in the following category: Deletion requests October 2011
Don't panic; a discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion, although please review Commons guidelines before doing so.
This notification is provided by a Bot -- CommonsNotificationBot ( talk) 14:31, 3 October 2011 (UTC) |
It is stated in the article that Boyd K. Packer was a pilot in the Army Air Force. In the right sidebar it shows his rank as Senior Airman, with an image of the current U.S. Air Force rank of Senior Airman. This is incorrect because the rank of Senior Airman is an enlisted grade of the Air Force, and not the grade of a military pilot. Boyd was probably a Lieutenant, Captain, or Major when he was a pilot. The rank listed in the article, along with the symbol of that rank should be corrected. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.3.41.68 ( talk) 10:02, 27 April 2012 (UTC)
As Acting President of the Quorum of the Twelve, Packer dedicated the Regina Saskatchewan Temple. As President of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, he dedicated the Brigham City Utah Temple. I feel this information is pertinent enough to add, but the question is, where should it be added? Thoughts? -- Jgstokes-We can disagree without being disagreeable ( talk) 02:35, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
I noticed while rereading this article that the mention of Packer's participation in temples was not chronological. So I turned that information into its own section and made it chronological. I would be fine if it was to be edited to be worded better. I just don't want to see this section eliminated without discussion. Thoughts? -- Jgstokes ( talk) 04:27, 16 October 2013 (UTC)
Recently, in connection with Packer's call to the twelve, in referring to the new Church President, the word "ordained" replaced the word "appointed" because one editor felt it would violate WP:NPOV to imply that a Church President was appointed by God. My take on this issue: As an active member of the LDS Church, I believe that prophets truly are appointed by God. However, for WP purposes, the word "appointed" would still be accurate, as all Church Presidents since Brigham Young have been appointed by the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. So I feel it would be beneficial to employ both terms. Thoughts? -- Jgstokes-We can disagree without being disagreeable ( talk) 01:02, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
Makes sense to me. However, since they are also "appointed," I still feel both terms should be employed. A short explanation as to how that comes to pass would explain the term quite nicely. But I am just one voice, and I see your point. Any other thoughts? -- Jgstokes-We can disagree without being disagreeable ( talk) 17:23, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
Should an addition be made to the 'sexuality' section as an update? His recent talk (Spring 2013 General Conference) -- again encouraging intolerance strikes me as a necessary addition. The inclusion would support the other entries as not being occasional misstatements, but rather a recurring and favored theme. -sorry, I've forgotten my username, it's been so long since I made an entry... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 126.15.163.201 ( talk) 16:56, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
The existing version says Packer flew several bombing missions in WWII. That is not supported by any of the references. An Ensign article says this: "Young manhood came to Boyd Packer about the time World War II began. After graduation from high school, he worked for a time on construction of an army hospital in his hometown. Like many young LDS men of his generation, he was unable to serve a proselyting mission because of the war. In the spring of 1943, he enlisted in the Army Air Force, graduating as a pilot the following year, a few days before his twentieth birthday. He was then trained to fly bombers and ordered to the Pacific Theater. He was stationed in Japan for nearly a year after the end of the war." So he got his wings in September 1944, then went to bomber-training school. Another source says that he was on Okinawa when the war ended, then was stationed in Japan until 1946. I haven't found any official statement that he "flew in combat" as such. Therefore I am revising the text to agree. If someone can find certifiable details that the facts are otherwise, feel free to re-edit that section. Thanks ! -- Spray787 ( talk) 03:40, 8 July 2015 (UTC)
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Would the paragraphs on his teachings on homosexuality and history be better placed in a different section called "criticism"? Smachable ( talk) 17:48, 12 September 2019 (UTC)