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"The Senior Patrol Leader (SPL), and then his Assistant Senior Patrol Leader(s) (ASPL's), are the highest ranking boys in the troop. PL's and the SPL are elective positions. APL's are appointed by PL's; ASPL's are appointed by the SPL with the advice of the Scoutmaster. "
From my experience in scouting, SPL and APL are not nessecarily the highest ranking scouts, and ASPL's can be elected, as can APL's, depending on the troop. There is some leeway in that, it seems.
Lyellin 05:12, Dec 31, 2003 (UTC)
There are also Junior Assistant Scoutmasters, which are usually reserved for those with Eagle rank. These may be considered higher ranking.
The official publications, such as Junior Leadership Training Handbook state that. I'll dig mine out and confirm... -- Jia ng 06:05, 31 Dec 2003 (UTC)
I'll search for mine as well... *laughs*. JASMs are normally use (again, in my experience), for those kids who are Eagle, but not 18, or those who are not nessecarily around all that often, but are older, 17, 18 or so, so that they have a leadership position while not always being around. Lyellin 15:37, Dec 31, 2003 (UTC)
From the Junior Leader Handbook:
SPL - "The senior patrol leader is elected by the Scouts to represent them as the top junior leader in the troop."
ASPL - "The assistant senior patrol leader is the second-highest-ranking junior leader of the troop. He is appointed by the senior patrol leader with the approval of the Scoutmaster."
APL -"The assistant patrol leader is appointed by the patrol leader and leads the patrol in his absense."
I guess it's official... -- Jia ng 15:37, 3 Jan 2004 (UTC)
The confusion arises from the conflation of two different definitions of "rank." Perhaps a clearer wording would be "The Senior Patrol Leader (SPL), and then his Assistant Senior Patrol Leader(s) (ASPL's), are the top boy leaders of the troop." - Seth Ilys 15:45, 3 Jan 2004 (UTC)
Over at wikibooks, I have begun a project to create a guide to earning BSA merit badges, just in case anyone is interested in helping. ( Mammal Study, for example, has already been started) Tuf-Kat 00:34, Mar 2, 2004 (UTC)
Speaking as someone who's not terribly partial to the Scouts, one of the things that strongly impressed me about the Scout troops I have encountered, particularly one my son was in, is that they have really, truly appeared to be very broad cross-sections of the local population. The troop included Scouts from a really wide range of income levels, ethnicity, and religion. Planning for camping trips was truly complicated because we had to get kosher foot—not because of our several Jewish scouts, who didn't care, but because of a number of scouts—I'm afraid I don't know their exact ethnicity or religion, but I think they were from India—and their religion had some dietary requirements which were not exactly the same as kosher, but their parents accepted kosher as "close enough." Plans were complicated by the need to coordinate, not only with the familiar holidays and the Jewish holidays, but Eastern Orthodox holidays, Seventh Day Adventists, and I don't remember what-all.
Assuming this is true of Scouting in general, is there any way to document this in the article in a suitably NPOV way? [[User:Dpbsmith| Dpbsmith (talk)]] 20:01, 16 Aug 2004 (UTC)
"Since the Scout Oath includes the phrase "to do my Duty to God and Country," many people are confused why atheists would want to join the Boy Scouts."
Reading that sounds HIGHLY POV, highly judgemental. Any way to add it so that it does not have that tone? I don't personally think it needs to be in there- no quotes to back it up are in the entry, and a person can form their own ideas with the information presented. Lyellin 04:45, Jan 3, 2004 (UTC)
Online sources: Offial statement about the law of chastity | Article about church discipline by Elder M. Russell Ballard of the Quorum of the Twelve - Jobarts 06:07, Mar 31, 2005 (UTC)
To anonymous user 164.58.83.66: Please stop removing information from this page. If you continue to do so, I will ask that this page be protected. I do not object to your first couple of modifications, but the removal of useful information is unacceptable. --Smack 22:05, 28 Jan 2004 (UTC)
The Boy Scout Handshake is the traditional shake, done with the left hand instead of the right.
Does this mean "traditional handshake"? The Boy Scout handshake isn't a normal handshake... -- bdesham
Never saw you defend your edit. Words in quotes are exactly what the BSA believes.
Should there be anything added about the original boy scout "Hand Clasp" that was used by the BSA before it adopted the handshake that is used today? ScooterSES 23:53, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
The Controversy section is important, needs to be there, and is pretty good. But I honestly do not think that the controversy over gay and atheist membership is such an important defining characteristic of the BSA that it deserves to be mentioned in the introductory paragraph. I suppose one could say that the BSA has long maintained that Scouts should be "reverent," i.e. adhere to traditional American fuzzy deism; and has "clean," i.e. adhere to traditional sexual morality. But I don't think this has been a major preoccupation of most scoutmasters in most troops at most times. Dpbsmith 12:37, 22 Apr 2004 (UTC)
I think we ought to divide the controversy section into three parts - historical controversies, the atheism issue, and the homosexuality issue. crazyeddie 21:56, 20 Mar 2005 (UTC)
BSA doesn't try to keep out atheists. Some atheists want the Duty to God part of the oath taken out, but I think that if a being is non-existent, you couldn't have any duty to it, so no matter what you do you won't fail in that duty. I don't think I know any atheists personally, so if any of you see this, I'd like to know what you think. I'm not sure how to best represent that point of view in the article. Thoughts? - Jobarts 06:50, Mar 31, 2005 (UTC)
Why is the controversy section claiming that the Boy Scouts only restricts homosexual leaders, not members? 4.154.100.135 07:17, 14 August 2005 (UTC)
Why has the controversies section been moved to a different article entirely? Isn't this a violation of the no-POV-fork guideline or something? Also, I think we need more information on how exactly the chain of command works on the national level - i.e., what can individual troops and councils do to influence decisions made at the national level? crazyeddie 06:12, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
The current controversy section says this: "In order to comply with anti-discrimination laws, some localities have withdrawn Boy Scout access to public schools and facilities." I'm with Scouting For All, and I see this "factoid" all over, but never a list of what localities have actually done this. The Broward school system attempted this a few years ago, got sued by the BSA, and lost. If no other localities can be named, this sentence should be removed. What many schools and communities HAVE done is remove SPECIAL ACCESS, such as free use of facilities that other groups must pay for, and in-school recruiting. 66.77.224.249 03:08, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/7326932/
Time to start forming a new section.
I added a paragraph about some stuff that happened back in the 1980s were there was, for lack of a better term, a "wave" of incidents where scouts were getting beat up on campout trips by older scouts. I was actually at Goshen when the beating occurred, it was in 1987 at I think Olmstead Camp. I'd be interested in hearing of efforts the BSA has made in the past twenty years to prevent such occurences since I know now they take it pretty seriously (or at least should). - Husnock 21:44, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Personally, other than the organization being based in Texas and in the Dallas area, do you guys think the BSA article should have been categorized in those categories? Zscout370 (Sound Off) 17:19, 24 May 2005 (UTC)
Isn't pinewood derby primarily a Cub Scout (as opposed to a Boy Scout) activity? If I'm right (which I am, unless my Cub Scout Pack and my Boy Scout Troop both did things wrong), it should be mentioned in the Cub Scout article rather than here. -- Myles Long 21:58, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
The James E. West linked from this page is a different person. That link goes to the mayor of Spokane, Washington, who was not alive in 1911. I'm not sure what to change the link to, though. Mr2001 06:00, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
Hey guys, the Boy Scouts announced that four leaders from Alaska were killed at the National Jamboree today. See http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050726/ap_on_re_us/jamboree_deaths Zscout370 (Sound Off) 03:31, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
I think that we should not have a general list of former Scouts. Out of (I'd guess) two to three hundred million boys who have grown up in the United States in the past one hundred years, one hundred million were Scouts at one time or another. Such a list threatens to immediately become egregiously long, and to contain very little useful information whatsoever. (The list of Eagle Scouts, though, we should keep). -- Smack ( talk) 04:38, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
The UUA has specified that they prefer "acceptance" to "tolerance." They believe that "tolerance" conveys a negative message, as in "oh, i can tolerate them." Therefore I changed this. Veritos 21:50, 8 August 2005 (UTC)
Hi guys (new to wiki) I haven't noticed anything on Timberline - JL Training. I'm interested in adding some stuff. akuankka 22:54, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
Someone (it is not obvious to me from a quick scan of the page history who or when) added this insignia with the caption "most frequently used insignia of the BSA". Looking at the associated upload history for that image, its source is some random website not even affiliated with the BSA. No claim is made as to what the copyright status is, which is problematic. I am not familiar with this insignia. I don't think this is really the most frequently used insignia, is it? Can someone provide a reference for that? Can anyone come up with a better caption? Johntex\ talk 01:49, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
The new caption is much better. The image is in danger of being deleted, since it does not have a proper copyright tag. Frankly, I would just as soon see that, and reload it from the official source with the proper name and attribution. Of course, this is if we decide that it is relevant to the article. I'm a bit ambivalent on that, any other thoughts? -- Gadget850 00:25, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
I went ahead and redid it properly. Now, what about the Boyce image? -- Gadget850 10:19, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
See Talk:Girl Scouts of the USA#Discrimination against "Infidels" and Bisexual/Gay people:. -- Mistress Selina Kyle 19:26, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
Faith (a scout is reverent) is only a part of scouting, thus to note in the lead-in that it is "faith based" is rather misleading. See the creeds section for a full list of "what scouting is about". Scouting does not recognize any particular denomination or brand of faith as "official", thus it does not typify a faith based organizaion. I know that as a member of the BSA, I do have a POV here, but I do not see that non-scouts see the BSA as a orginization that is primarily religious in nature. -- Gadget850 23:07, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
"The Senior Patrol Leader (SPL), and then his Assistant Senior Patrol Leader(s) (ASPL's), are the highest ranking boys in the troop. PL's and the SPL are elective positions. APL's are appointed by PL's; ASPL's are appointed by the SPL with the advice of the Scoutmaster. "
From my experience in scouting, SPL and APL are not nessecarily the highest ranking scouts, and ASPL's can be elected, as can APL's, depending on the troop. There is some leeway in that, it seems.
Lyellin 05:12, Dec 31, 2003 (UTC)
There are also Junior Assistant Scoutmasters, which are usually reserved for those with Eagle rank. These may be considered higher ranking.
The official publications, such as Junior Leadership Training Handbook state that. I'll dig mine out and confirm... -- Jia ng 06:05, 31 Dec 2003 (UTC)
I'll search for mine as well... *laughs*. JASMs are normally use (again, in my experience), for those kids who are Eagle, but not 18, or those who are not nessecarily around all that often, but are older, 17, 18 or so, so that they have a leadership position while not always being around. Lyellin 15:37, Dec 31, 2003 (UTC)
From the Junior Leader Handbook:
SPL - "The senior patrol leader is elected by the Scouts to represent them as the top junior leader in the troop."
ASPL - "The assistant senior patrol leader is the second-highest-ranking junior leader of the troop. He is appointed by the senior patrol leader with the approval of the Scoutmaster."
APL -"The assistant patrol leader is appointed by the patrol leader and leads the patrol in his absense."
I guess it's official... -- Jia ng 15:37, 3 Jan 2004 (UTC)
The confusion arises from the conflation of two different definitions of "rank." Perhaps a clearer wording would be "The Senior Patrol Leader (SPL), and then his Assistant Senior Patrol Leader(s) (ASPL's), are the top boy leaders of the troop." - Seth Ilys 15:45, 3 Jan 2004 (UTC)
Over at wikibooks, I have begun a project to create a guide to earning BSA merit badges, just in case anyone is interested in helping. ( Mammal Study, for example, has already been started) Tuf-Kat 00:34, Mar 2, 2004 (UTC)
Speaking as someone who's not terribly partial to the Scouts, one of the things that strongly impressed me about the Scout troops I have encountered, particularly one my son was in, is that they have really, truly appeared to be very broad cross-sections of the local population. The troop included Scouts from a really wide range of income levels, ethnicity, and religion. Planning for camping trips was truly complicated because we had to get kosher foot—not because of our several Jewish scouts, who didn't care, but because of a number of scouts—I'm afraid I don't know their exact ethnicity or religion, but I think they were from India—and their religion had some dietary requirements which were not exactly the same as kosher, but their parents accepted kosher as "close enough." Plans were complicated by the need to coordinate, not only with the familiar holidays and the Jewish holidays, but Eastern Orthodox holidays, Seventh Day Adventists, and I don't remember what-all.
Assuming this is true of Scouting in general, is there any way to document this in the article in a suitably NPOV way? [[User:Dpbsmith| Dpbsmith (talk)]] 20:01, 16 Aug 2004 (UTC)
"Since the Scout Oath includes the phrase "to do my Duty to God and Country," many people are confused why atheists would want to join the Boy Scouts."
Reading that sounds HIGHLY POV, highly judgemental. Any way to add it so that it does not have that tone? I don't personally think it needs to be in there- no quotes to back it up are in the entry, and a person can form their own ideas with the information presented. Lyellin 04:45, Jan 3, 2004 (UTC)
Online sources: Offial statement about the law of chastity | Article about church discipline by Elder M. Russell Ballard of the Quorum of the Twelve - Jobarts 06:07, Mar 31, 2005 (UTC)
To anonymous user 164.58.83.66: Please stop removing information from this page. If you continue to do so, I will ask that this page be protected. I do not object to your first couple of modifications, but the removal of useful information is unacceptable. --Smack 22:05, 28 Jan 2004 (UTC)
The Boy Scout Handshake is the traditional shake, done with the left hand instead of the right.
Does this mean "traditional handshake"? The Boy Scout handshake isn't a normal handshake... -- bdesham
Never saw you defend your edit. Words in quotes are exactly what the BSA believes.
Should there be anything added about the original boy scout "Hand Clasp" that was used by the BSA before it adopted the handshake that is used today? ScooterSES 23:53, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
The Controversy section is important, needs to be there, and is pretty good. But I honestly do not think that the controversy over gay and atheist membership is such an important defining characteristic of the BSA that it deserves to be mentioned in the introductory paragraph. I suppose one could say that the BSA has long maintained that Scouts should be "reverent," i.e. adhere to traditional American fuzzy deism; and has "clean," i.e. adhere to traditional sexual morality. But I don't think this has been a major preoccupation of most scoutmasters in most troops at most times. Dpbsmith 12:37, 22 Apr 2004 (UTC)
I think we ought to divide the controversy section into three parts - historical controversies, the atheism issue, and the homosexuality issue. crazyeddie 21:56, 20 Mar 2005 (UTC)
BSA doesn't try to keep out atheists. Some atheists want the Duty to God part of the oath taken out, but I think that if a being is non-existent, you couldn't have any duty to it, so no matter what you do you won't fail in that duty. I don't think I know any atheists personally, so if any of you see this, I'd like to know what you think. I'm not sure how to best represent that point of view in the article. Thoughts? - Jobarts 06:50, Mar 31, 2005 (UTC)
Why is the controversy section claiming that the Boy Scouts only restricts homosexual leaders, not members? 4.154.100.135 07:17, 14 August 2005 (UTC)
Why has the controversies section been moved to a different article entirely? Isn't this a violation of the no-POV-fork guideline or something? Also, I think we need more information on how exactly the chain of command works on the national level - i.e., what can individual troops and councils do to influence decisions made at the national level? crazyeddie 06:12, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
The current controversy section says this: "In order to comply with anti-discrimination laws, some localities have withdrawn Boy Scout access to public schools and facilities." I'm with Scouting For All, and I see this "factoid" all over, but never a list of what localities have actually done this. The Broward school system attempted this a few years ago, got sued by the BSA, and lost. If no other localities can be named, this sentence should be removed. What many schools and communities HAVE done is remove SPECIAL ACCESS, such as free use of facilities that other groups must pay for, and in-school recruiting. 66.77.224.249 03:08, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/7326932/
Time to start forming a new section.
I added a paragraph about some stuff that happened back in the 1980s were there was, for lack of a better term, a "wave" of incidents where scouts were getting beat up on campout trips by older scouts. I was actually at Goshen when the beating occurred, it was in 1987 at I think Olmstead Camp. I'd be interested in hearing of efforts the BSA has made in the past twenty years to prevent such occurences since I know now they take it pretty seriously (or at least should). - Husnock 21:44, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Personally, other than the organization being based in Texas and in the Dallas area, do you guys think the BSA article should have been categorized in those categories? Zscout370 (Sound Off) 17:19, 24 May 2005 (UTC)
Isn't pinewood derby primarily a Cub Scout (as opposed to a Boy Scout) activity? If I'm right (which I am, unless my Cub Scout Pack and my Boy Scout Troop both did things wrong), it should be mentioned in the Cub Scout article rather than here. -- Myles Long 21:58, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
The James E. West linked from this page is a different person. That link goes to the mayor of Spokane, Washington, who was not alive in 1911. I'm not sure what to change the link to, though. Mr2001 06:00, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
Hey guys, the Boy Scouts announced that four leaders from Alaska were killed at the National Jamboree today. See http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050726/ap_on_re_us/jamboree_deaths Zscout370 (Sound Off) 03:31, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
I think that we should not have a general list of former Scouts. Out of (I'd guess) two to three hundred million boys who have grown up in the United States in the past one hundred years, one hundred million were Scouts at one time or another. Such a list threatens to immediately become egregiously long, and to contain very little useful information whatsoever. (The list of Eagle Scouts, though, we should keep). -- Smack ( talk) 04:38, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
The UUA has specified that they prefer "acceptance" to "tolerance." They believe that "tolerance" conveys a negative message, as in "oh, i can tolerate them." Therefore I changed this. Veritos 21:50, 8 August 2005 (UTC)
Hi guys (new to wiki) I haven't noticed anything on Timberline - JL Training. I'm interested in adding some stuff. akuankka 22:54, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
Someone (it is not obvious to me from a quick scan of the page history who or when) added this insignia with the caption "most frequently used insignia of the BSA". Looking at the associated upload history for that image, its source is some random website not even affiliated with the BSA. No claim is made as to what the copyright status is, which is problematic. I am not familiar with this insignia. I don't think this is really the most frequently used insignia, is it? Can someone provide a reference for that? Can anyone come up with a better caption? Johntex\ talk 01:49, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
The new caption is much better. The image is in danger of being deleted, since it does not have a proper copyright tag. Frankly, I would just as soon see that, and reload it from the official source with the proper name and attribution. Of course, this is if we decide that it is relevant to the article. I'm a bit ambivalent on that, any other thoughts? -- Gadget850 00:25, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
I went ahead and redid it properly. Now, what about the Boyce image? -- Gadget850 10:19, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
See Talk:Girl Scouts of the USA#Discrimination against "Infidels" and Bisexual/Gay people:. -- Mistress Selina Kyle 19:26, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
Faith (a scout is reverent) is only a part of scouting, thus to note in the lead-in that it is "faith based" is rather misleading. See the creeds section for a full list of "what scouting is about". Scouting does not recognize any particular denomination or brand of faith as "official", thus it does not typify a faith based organizaion. I know that as a member of the BSA, I do have a POV here, but I do not see that non-scouts see the BSA as a orginization that is primarily religious in nature. -- Gadget850 23:07, 22 December 2005 (UTC)