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Is there any way this isn't rubbish (though from the newspapers rather than from wikipedia editors)? Descendants of an unspecified 'Jean de Bourbon', a 'nephew of Henry IV' (Henry IV of France had no nephews)? Mysteriously never mentioned until now by some crackpot cousin of Prince Philip? Supposedly the 'true heirs to the French throne' (no. Just no. There's no way any nephew of Henry IV of France could be 'true heir' without writing off Louis XIII and his line of descent, which no sane historian does)? And garbage about them being relatives of Louis XVI and Marie Antoinette (if they are descendants of Charles, Duke of Vendome, then they would be related, but very distantly, especially if isolated in India). Could someone please clarify if there is any serious merit to this nonsense? Michael Sanders 00:25, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
-- Malaiya 02:43, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
If jean Phillipe de Bourbon was the secret son of theConstable of France and his wife, Duchess Suzanne and there are historical reasons to have kept the birth a secret, he was not a nephew of Henri IV but a second uncle and he would have been King of France. WHo ever he was, the saga of this family is extraordinary and there is no doubt that the Bourbons of India achieved the unnimaginable during many centuries. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Thubten Namdrol ( talk • contribs) 21:40, 11 May 2013 (UTC)
There's an excellent source on this, van Kerrebrouck 1987, that this article is in dire need of. It explains who Salvadore de Bourbon (1917–1978) was and provides some missing context to the whole thing. Uncle G ( talk) 00:40, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
It's Seth1937 himself that says to look at page 341 of Malcolm1824. Uncle G ( talk) 14:46, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
the same subject Yopie ( talk) 14:59, 11 May 2013 (UTC)
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"Mughal records pre-dating the book say that Maria and Juliana were honoured ladies of the harem. Juliana was in charge of the Seragilo as harem physician while Maria occupied the position of Akbar’s confidante and companion. Juliana’s was married off by Akbar to the fugitive French prince, Jean Philippe de Bourbon and both died in Agra, leaving behind the Indian branch of Bourbons. In the old Agra cemetery is the grave of Juliana’s so-called niece, Bibi Ammiana while that of Maria (no longer traceable) was in the graveyard behind Akbar’s Church, a mile or so away. Imagine a Portuguese lady giving birth to the Great Moghul’s heir apparent at the wilderness abode of Sheikh Salim Chisti! Sounds implausible."
Source: New twist to a timeless riddle, 17 April 2017, The Hindu
"Bibi Juliana also known as Jodha Bai, was associated with the court of Aurangzeb in the 17th (not 16th Century as mentioned in the book) and the first decade of the 18th Century. Her namesake Juliana (Sr) was attached to the 16th Century court of Akbar, along with her sister, Maria, both Portuguese ladies rescued from pirates and sent to Agra from Hoogly. This Juliana was married to Jeane Philippe de Bourbon, cousin of King Henry IV of France who had escaped to Akbar’s court after killing a kinsman in a duel. Both he and Juliana are the ancestors of the Bourbon family of India, whose last descendant now lives in Bhopal."
Source:
Down the memory lane: Delhi’s last supper, 5 April 2015, The Hindu
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
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![]() | This article was nominated for deletion on 22 November 2010. The result of the discussion was keep. |
Is there any way this isn't rubbish (though from the newspapers rather than from wikipedia editors)? Descendants of an unspecified 'Jean de Bourbon', a 'nephew of Henry IV' (Henry IV of France had no nephews)? Mysteriously never mentioned until now by some crackpot cousin of Prince Philip? Supposedly the 'true heirs to the French throne' (no. Just no. There's no way any nephew of Henry IV of France could be 'true heir' without writing off Louis XIII and his line of descent, which no sane historian does)? And garbage about them being relatives of Louis XVI and Marie Antoinette (if they are descendants of Charles, Duke of Vendome, then they would be related, but very distantly, especially if isolated in India). Could someone please clarify if there is any serious merit to this nonsense? Michael Sanders 00:25, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
-- Malaiya 02:43, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
If jean Phillipe de Bourbon was the secret son of theConstable of France and his wife, Duchess Suzanne and there are historical reasons to have kept the birth a secret, he was not a nephew of Henri IV but a second uncle and he would have been King of France. WHo ever he was, the saga of this family is extraordinary and there is no doubt that the Bourbons of India achieved the unnimaginable during many centuries. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Thubten Namdrol ( talk • contribs) 21:40, 11 May 2013 (UTC)
There's an excellent source on this, van Kerrebrouck 1987, that this article is in dire need of. It explains who Salvadore de Bourbon (1917–1978) was and provides some missing context to the whole thing. Uncle G ( talk) 00:40, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
It's Seth1937 himself that says to look at page 341 of Malcolm1824. Uncle G ( talk) 14:46, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
the same subject Yopie ( talk) 14:59, 11 May 2013 (UTC)
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 23:21, 1 January 2017 (UTC)
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 02:21, 24 July 2017 (UTC)
"Mughal records pre-dating the book say that Maria and Juliana were honoured ladies of the harem. Juliana was in charge of the Seragilo as harem physician while Maria occupied the position of Akbar’s confidante and companion. Juliana’s was married off by Akbar to the fugitive French prince, Jean Philippe de Bourbon and both died in Agra, leaving behind the Indian branch of Bourbons. In the old Agra cemetery is the grave of Juliana’s so-called niece, Bibi Ammiana while that of Maria (no longer traceable) was in the graveyard behind Akbar’s Church, a mile or so away. Imagine a Portuguese lady giving birth to the Great Moghul’s heir apparent at the wilderness abode of Sheikh Salim Chisti! Sounds implausible."
Source: New twist to a timeless riddle, 17 April 2017, The Hindu
"Bibi Juliana also known as Jodha Bai, was associated with the court of Aurangzeb in the 17th (not 16th Century as mentioned in the book) and the first decade of the 18th Century. Her namesake Juliana (Sr) was attached to the 16th Century court of Akbar, along with her sister, Maria, both Portuguese ladies rescued from pirates and sent to Agra from Hoogly. This Juliana was married to Jeane Philippe de Bourbon, cousin of King Henry IV of France who had escaped to Akbar’s court after killing a kinsman in a duel. Both he and Juliana are the ancestors of the Bourbon family of India, whose last descendant now lives in Bhopal."
Source:
Down the memory lane: Delhi’s last supper, 5 April 2015, The Hindu