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Why is this article called 'boiled leather' over cuir bouilli? And what are the sources for the methodology involving boiling?
I only have a reference refuting such a suggestion:
Nicolle, David, 'Jawshan, Cuirie and Coats-of-Plates: An Alternative Line of Development for Hardened Leather Armour', in Companion to Medieval Arms and Armour, edited by David Nicolle; UK: The Boydell Press, p 180:
David Nicolle (an established expert in medieval military subjects) points out that it is not boiled (which would destroy it) or oiled (which would soften it). It was in fact soaked in cold water, then dried (or heated) in a mould. Bouilli, he suggests, might refer to its waterproofing with molten wax.
Nicolle refers to a study by J W Waterer (Leather and the Warrior, Museum of Leathercraft, 1981). Does anyone have access to it? Or any other sources? Gwinva 17:24, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
The main premise of this article is that boiled leather was used in armor. However, none of the references provide any evidence for this. Either there should be specific citations for the use in armor, or the claim should be removed. — Sam 63.138.152.141 ( talk) 13:47, 5 June 2013 (UTC)
The article needs:
Snori ( talk) 21:10, 5 July 2017 (UTC)
In the first sentence of the "Military Use" section, there's a phrase that says plate armor is too heavy for infantry to use. This is demonstrably untrue. Any number of contemporary sources depict people fighting in full plate harness on foot. I'm going to remove that phrase unless someone objects. Johnny Wishbone ( talk) 22:32, 28 December 2017 (UTC)
Johnbod ( talk) 14:38, 12 October 2017 (UTC)
References
According to The Routledge Companion to Medieval Warfare, the opposite process was used - COLD water - as boiling makes leather permanently soft. The etymology of the "bouilli" part of the French name, cuir bouilli, is unknown, but is speculated to refer to part of the slow drying process with a low heat, and so has nothing to do with boiling.
Also the idea that armour made from stiffened leather is lighter than steel is ridiculous. Effective armour was certainly made from materials such as cloth, padding, and hardened and softened leather, but they were substantial constructions with their own cumbersome bulk. They rely on the density of tightly arranged fibres to dissipate the energy of a weapon, and so thickness and bulk are positive attributes towards their effectiveness.
Lighter layers of armour have been shown to work in combination with heavier armour, especially against missiles, where the lighter layer is used to create an initial retardant against momentum. This can be seen in the Japanese Horo, which has been shown to help against arrows; and in modern slat or standoff armour. But both are only effective in combination with normal full armour.
Nobbo69 ( talk) 00:35, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
![]() | A fact from Boiled leather appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the
Did you know column on 12 November 2017 (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
| ![]() |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Why is this article called 'boiled leather' over cuir bouilli? And what are the sources for the methodology involving boiling?
I only have a reference refuting such a suggestion:
Nicolle, David, 'Jawshan, Cuirie and Coats-of-Plates: An Alternative Line of Development for Hardened Leather Armour', in Companion to Medieval Arms and Armour, edited by David Nicolle; UK: The Boydell Press, p 180:
David Nicolle (an established expert in medieval military subjects) points out that it is not boiled (which would destroy it) or oiled (which would soften it). It was in fact soaked in cold water, then dried (or heated) in a mould. Bouilli, he suggests, might refer to its waterproofing with molten wax.
Nicolle refers to a study by J W Waterer (Leather and the Warrior, Museum of Leathercraft, 1981). Does anyone have access to it? Or any other sources? Gwinva 17:24, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
The main premise of this article is that boiled leather was used in armor. However, none of the references provide any evidence for this. Either there should be specific citations for the use in armor, or the claim should be removed. — Sam 63.138.152.141 ( talk) 13:47, 5 June 2013 (UTC)
The article needs:
Snori ( talk) 21:10, 5 July 2017 (UTC)
In the first sentence of the "Military Use" section, there's a phrase that says plate armor is too heavy for infantry to use. This is demonstrably untrue. Any number of contemporary sources depict people fighting in full plate harness on foot. I'm going to remove that phrase unless someone objects. Johnny Wishbone ( talk) 22:32, 28 December 2017 (UTC)
Johnbod ( talk) 14:38, 12 October 2017 (UTC)
References
According to The Routledge Companion to Medieval Warfare, the opposite process was used - COLD water - as boiling makes leather permanently soft. The etymology of the "bouilli" part of the French name, cuir bouilli, is unknown, but is speculated to refer to part of the slow drying process with a low heat, and so has nothing to do with boiling.
Also the idea that armour made from stiffened leather is lighter than steel is ridiculous. Effective armour was certainly made from materials such as cloth, padding, and hardened and softened leather, but they were substantial constructions with their own cumbersome bulk. They rely on the density of tightly arranged fibres to dissipate the energy of a weapon, and so thickness and bulk are positive attributes towards their effectiveness.
Lighter layers of armour have been shown to work in combination with heavier armour, especially against missiles, where the lighter layer is used to create an initial retardant against momentum. This can be seen in the Japanese Horo, which has been shown to help against arrows; and in modern slat or standoff armour. But both are only effective in combination with normal full armour.
Nobbo69 ( talk) 00:35, 6 October 2020 (UTC)