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Oppose, a rough Google check indicates that the Czech name may be used more frequently in English than the somewhat confusing name "Bohemian forest". And even when I type "Bohemian forest" into Google the first hit I get uses Šumava
[1]. I have no knowledge of Czech geography but it seems to me that the terms Bohemian forest and Šumava are not strictly synonymous. In any case I think we should defer to the actual editors of the article. -
Haukur Þorgeirsson21:30, 28 October 2005 (UTC)reply
I'm sorry I didn't noticed the previous move request. As pointed out by Haukurth, Sumava is more common name in English (and the trend is it will become more and more common). --
Wikimol23:42, 2 December 2005 (UTC)reply
Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one sentence explanation, then sign your vote with ~~~~
Support. Unless someone presents a compelling case for another option I think we should defer to the person who wrote the article
[2]. Also see my comments in the previous move request. -
Haukur Þorgeirsson00:45, 3 December 2005 (UTC)reply
Oppose but with reservations. This was just changed from Šumava a month ago. Not that it's an adequate way of deciding encyclopedia article titles but today the #1 Google hit for "Bohemian Forest" is Infoplease.com's entry "Bohemian Forest." I'm not sure how Šumava, which can't even be written with the normal English character set, is more English than Bohemian Forest. However, the "Český les" problem throws a wrench in things. Maybe if there were Český les entry AND a Šumava one, Bohemian Forest could be a kind of disambiguation page.
LuiKhuntek08:01, 3 December 2005 (UTC)reply
Oppose. As a native English speaker I don't see how "Šumava" is more English than "Bohemian Forest". The latter is what I and many English language references (such as Britannica) refer to this region. So leave this article at the English version, we do have a name for this region in English, which is "Bohemian Forest".
Marco7917:03, 3 December 2005 (UTC)reply
Soory, but I don't understand this explanation. Should the article be under ambigous and less frequent name just because 6 months is a standard set by some regulation? Did Wikipedia lost its wiki status and some "legal" terms become more important than the content?
WP:IAR. -
Wikimol15:37, 4 December 2005 (UTC)reply
The article after my extension was mostly dealing with the whole mountain range, not only with the part on Czech side of the border. I apologize if it wasn't clear from the introduction. I don't know what it is supposed to be about now - every other statement lost sense / is wrong.
Ironically, the "English name" was included by a Czech wikipedian, almost a year after the creation of the article
[3]. (Unfortunately I didn't noticed, it was marked as a minor edit.) Isn't it interesting none of the English speaking readers corrected the proper English name...? For reasons unknown to me, many Czechs believe the correct English name for the whole Sumava is Bohemian Forest. As was my case, when I noticed the article founded by
The Singing Badger - but than I did some research on the actual usage and become convinced native English speakers use Sumava more often tahn Bohemian Forest. Bohemian Forest is usually translation of "something".
The problem is that "something". The name Bohemian Forest literally translates to Český les in Czech (and vice versa). But Český les are different mountains in SW bohemia, neighbouring Sumava. Bohemian Forest literally translates to Böhmerwald in German (and vice versa), which means approximately "Czech part of Sumava" in German. The last possibility is it is used for the whole mountain range.
The nominator really should have waited 6 months rather than a month, before bringing this up. I believe 6 months is the standard waiting period in Wikipedia, before a requested move is attempted again.
Marco7917:17, 3 December 2005 (UTC)reply
It is not "attempted again". I want to reverse previous decision based IMO on poor information.
The "more English" argument... Well - in eastern Tureky is a mountain group called Altiparmak. The name can be translated as Six fingers. While "Six fingers" is "more English", it is probably never used. I'd say the correct name for Wikipedia article would be Altiparmak, even if it is not as English as "Six fingers". --
Wikimol15:37, 4 December 2005 (UTC)reply
I would like to ask those voting oppose to explain what do they propose the article should be about. If I take #1 Google reference on Bohemian Forest
[4] I can learn
Bohemian Forest, Czech Český Les, Ger. Böhmerwald, mountain range, extending c.150 mi (240 km) along the S Czech-German border and extending into Austria. The Czech name for its southern section is Sumava.
Czech Český les is Böhmischer wald in German, not Böhmerwald.
Šumava isn't southern part of Český les. It's a different range.
Šumava isn't southern part of Böhmerwald in normal meaning. Böhmerwald is used exactly for Šumava or for it's Czech part. (The Bayerische part beeing called Bayerischer Wald)
Fortunately whatever meaning of the name, the fact it is a low mountain range along the S Czech-German border holds true, so why bother, after all?
IMO suitable content for
Bohemian Forest would be kind of disambiguation page containing a map describing the nomenclature. Now I realize I could have created the disambiguation and moved the content back to Sumava withou asking for move on RFM... but I guess now it's too late, as if I do it now, it would be seen as an attempt to circumvent the important bureaucratic/democratic procedure :-( --
Wikimol15:37, 4 December 2005 (UTC)reply
I think you should still be able to split out the part of the content that only concerns the Czech side to
Šumava, but keep the page about geography and terminology at
Bohemian Forest. Your argument about German usage is only about recent usage, BTW. de:Böhmerwald says it seems to have been the term for the whole mountain range (including what is now Bayrischer Wald) until the early 20th century. (Seems to be similar in English).
Kusma(talk)17:01, 4 December 2005 (UTC)reply
Good idea. Make Bohemian Forest a disamb page with the terminology mess explained and links to three articles; one for "Šumava," one for "Český les," and one for "Bayerischer Wald" under whatever names deemed best.
LuiKhuntek20:20, 7 December 2005 (UTC)reply
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Czech Republic, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the
Czech Republic on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Czech RepublicWikipedia:WikiProject Czech RepublicTemplate:WikiProject Czech RepublicCzech Republic articles
Oppose, a rough Google check indicates that the Czech name may be used more frequently in English than the somewhat confusing name "Bohemian forest". And even when I type "Bohemian forest" into Google the first hit I get uses Šumava
[1]. I have no knowledge of Czech geography but it seems to me that the terms Bohemian forest and Šumava are not strictly synonymous. In any case I think we should defer to the actual editors of the article. -
Haukur Þorgeirsson21:30, 28 October 2005 (UTC)reply
I'm sorry I didn't noticed the previous move request. As pointed out by Haukurth, Sumava is more common name in English (and the trend is it will become more and more common). --
Wikimol23:42, 2 December 2005 (UTC)reply
Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one sentence explanation, then sign your vote with ~~~~
Support. Unless someone presents a compelling case for another option I think we should defer to the person who wrote the article
[2]. Also see my comments in the previous move request. -
Haukur Þorgeirsson00:45, 3 December 2005 (UTC)reply
Oppose but with reservations. This was just changed from Šumava a month ago. Not that it's an adequate way of deciding encyclopedia article titles but today the #1 Google hit for "Bohemian Forest" is Infoplease.com's entry "Bohemian Forest." I'm not sure how Šumava, which can't even be written with the normal English character set, is more English than Bohemian Forest. However, the "Český les" problem throws a wrench in things. Maybe if there were Český les entry AND a Šumava one, Bohemian Forest could be a kind of disambiguation page.
LuiKhuntek08:01, 3 December 2005 (UTC)reply
Oppose. As a native English speaker I don't see how "Šumava" is more English than "Bohemian Forest". The latter is what I and many English language references (such as Britannica) refer to this region. So leave this article at the English version, we do have a name for this region in English, which is "Bohemian Forest".
Marco7917:03, 3 December 2005 (UTC)reply
Soory, but I don't understand this explanation. Should the article be under ambigous and less frequent name just because 6 months is a standard set by some regulation? Did Wikipedia lost its wiki status and some "legal" terms become more important than the content?
WP:IAR. -
Wikimol15:37, 4 December 2005 (UTC)reply
The article after my extension was mostly dealing with the whole mountain range, not only with the part on Czech side of the border. I apologize if it wasn't clear from the introduction. I don't know what it is supposed to be about now - every other statement lost sense / is wrong.
Ironically, the "English name" was included by a Czech wikipedian, almost a year after the creation of the article
[3]. (Unfortunately I didn't noticed, it was marked as a minor edit.) Isn't it interesting none of the English speaking readers corrected the proper English name...? For reasons unknown to me, many Czechs believe the correct English name for the whole Sumava is Bohemian Forest. As was my case, when I noticed the article founded by
The Singing Badger - but than I did some research on the actual usage and become convinced native English speakers use Sumava more often tahn Bohemian Forest. Bohemian Forest is usually translation of "something".
The problem is that "something". The name Bohemian Forest literally translates to Český les in Czech (and vice versa). But Český les are different mountains in SW bohemia, neighbouring Sumava. Bohemian Forest literally translates to Böhmerwald in German (and vice versa), which means approximately "Czech part of Sumava" in German. The last possibility is it is used for the whole mountain range.
The nominator really should have waited 6 months rather than a month, before bringing this up. I believe 6 months is the standard waiting period in Wikipedia, before a requested move is attempted again.
Marco7917:17, 3 December 2005 (UTC)reply
It is not "attempted again". I want to reverse previous decision based IMO on poor information.
The "more English" argument... Well - in eastern Tureky is a mountain group called Altiparmak. The name can be translated as Six fingers. While "Six fingers" is "more English", it is probably never used. I'd say the correct name for Wikipedia article would be Altiparmak, even if it is not as English as "Six fingers". --
Wikimol15:37, 4 December 2005 (UTC)reply
I would like to ask those voting oppose to explain what do they propose the article should be about. If I take #1 Google reference on Bohemian Forest
[4] I can learn
Bohemian Forest, Czech Český Les, Ger. Böhmerwald, mountain range, extending c.150 mi (240 km) along the S Czech-German border and extending into Austria. The Czech name for its southern section is Sumava.
Czech Český les is Böhmischer wald in German, not Böhmerwald.
Šumava isn't southern part of Český les. It's a different range.
Šumava isn't southern part of Böhmerwald in normal meaning. Böhmerwald is used exactly for Šumava or for it's Czech part. (The Bayerische part beeing called Bayerischer Wald)
Fortunately whatever meaning of the name, the fact it is a low mountain range along the S Czech-German border holds true, so why bother, after all?
IMO suitable content for
Bohemian Forest would be kind of disambiguation page containing a map describing the nomenclature. Now I realize I could have created the disambiguation and moved the content back to Sumava withou asking for move on RFM... but I guess now it's too late, as if I do it now, it would be seen as an attempt to circumvent the important bureaucratic/democratic procedure :-( --
Wikimol15:37, 4 December 2005 (UTC)reply
I think you should still be able to split out the part of the content that only concerns the Czech side to
Šumava, but keep the page about geography and terminology at
Bohemian Forest. Your argument about German usage is only about recent usage, BTW. de:Böhmerwald says it seems to have been the term for the whole mountain range (including what is now Bayrischer Wald) until the early 20th century. (Seems to be similar in English).
Kusma(talk)17:01, 4 December 2005 (UTC)reply
Good idea. Make Bohemian Forest a disamb page with the terminology mess explained and links to three articles; one for "Šumava," one for "Český les," and one for "Bayerischer Wald" under whatever names deemed best.
LuiKhuntek20:20, 7 December 2005 (UTC)reply