Bodhrán was a good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. | ||||||||||
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This section does not seem to make any sense. There is no evidence that it was a war drum but this is what leads people to believe ti was? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.224.61.9 ( talk) 23:41, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
Could somone put a page for crowdy crawn linked from the mentioning here... I could fill it out then with some info rather than putting a mini article in this one (theres a fair few nice stories about 'crowdy crawn') , ie if you search the internet you won't actually get any relevent sites because 'crowdy crawn' is also used in dialect to mean something like 'micallanious', the reason being that people used their crowdy crawns like a drawer to store misc stuff in... etc. I don't want to stick all this on the bodhran page. cheers (NM) 131.111.8.103
modern bodhráns are usually tuneable.
there are different tuning systems and the amount of tuning mechanisms is somewhere between 4-12 in a normal tuneable drum.
however there are also some bodhranmaker that put even more mechanisms into their drum
famous bodhranmakers where these tunable drums can be seen are e.g christian hedwitschak (www.bodhranmaker.de) from germany ; seamus o'kane and darius bartlett - both from ireland ; norbert eckermann from austria
Pronuciation. This page says "bow-rahn", but bow can rhyme with "go" and with "how", so this is no help. I reckon "Rahn" rhymes with "darn". The ceilidh page says "Bough-Rawn" - here Bough could rhyme with any of rough, cough, though, through etc - hopeless. And "Rawn" rhymes with dawn not darn. CONFUSED! -- SGBailey 22:08, 2005 Feb 6 (UTC)
This had to go (although I agree with the sentiment)! Christy Moore may deserve a mention in the earlier list. The other two have not recorded, as far as I can tell SiGarb 18:53, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
Some of the great irish traditional players of modern ireland include such names as christy moore Christy Moore, Conchubhair Ó Tiarnaigh, Oisín Ó Cualáin and many more, such talent shall never be forgotten.
This is from Josh Mittleman's Bodhrán website [1], specifically [2]:
"The earliest extant use of the word bodhrán (v. Dictionary of the Irish Language) comes from an Early Modern Irish (ca. 17th century) translation of a medical manual entitled Rosa Anglica (Irish Texts Society, vol.25). There the word is found glossed as "tabur (i.e. tabor), timpan (i.e. drum)". We have no idea, however, whether it referred to a particular type of drum, or if it did, what sort of drum. The tabor was a particular type of drum in certain times and places. The Irish word timpan does not describe a particular drum; it can even refer to a type of stringed instrument.) Nor do we have any particularly Irish evidence for styles of performance. Frame drums with a bodhrán-type shape appear in continental representations from the 15th century onward, but no one has produced an example showing the double-ended-stick style which defines modern bodhrán technique. [My thanks to Heather Rose Jones for this research.] "
This is at least some evidence that the word existed pre-20th century? -- Fire Star 19:28, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
Coming from a cornish music background... The word 'crowdy crawn' which describes essentially the same instrument as a bodhran is a dialect mutation of a cornish language name. (I don't actually know what the original words were), and as the cornish language had effectively died out by the late 1700's this would give an origin of the word somewhere before this time. However it could have been refering to some other object before that, i know that a crowdy crawn was also used as a draw and grain measure and then emptied out if anyone wanted to play. Hence the phrase is also used to mean 'misculanious'. Don't know if this is any help.will look it up when i get home ina few weeks. 131.111.8.97
I didn't pass this one. Needs more references and the seciton on playing is confusing. savidan (talk) (e@) 04:00, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
The bodhran is an Irish frame drum ranging anywhere from 10" to 26" in diameter, with most drums measuring from 14" to 18". The sides of the drum are 3 1/2" to 8" deep. A goat skin head is tacked to one side (although today, synthetic heads, or new materials like kangaroo skin, are sometimes used). The other side is open ended for one hand to be placed against the inside of the drum head to control the pitch.
Hello, friends. – I'm restoring that image, as it's very good at illustrating how the tipper is held. I read the comments when removing the name (privacy concern), and see that Vincent restored the image, but wanted his name there, or didn't want his likeness displayed at all. I think that's fair, and the privacy concern was resolved when he restored his name by direct editing action. The photo was removed again, asserting that it's "advertising". I don't think it's advertising (as per
WP:NOT for advertising, article 3., but really article 2. Self-promotion is more relevant I think) just to have his name present. Referring to
Conflict of Interest: Self-Promotion, I don't think his picture or the band
Harmony Glen's page on WP fail the NPOV requirements.
... Since the photographer and subject have both indicated that they don't object to the photo's use on WP, I don't think we have an issue. Let's not get into an edit war over one silly picture. --
David Spalding |
Talk 16:47, 14 November 2006 (UTC) (bodhran player since
1975)
One often hears about the bodhran that before the Chieftains the instrument was used primarily in only one county of Ireland. Which county was that? Badagnani 08:35, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
The list of "notable players include" is getting out of hand. I'd like to limit it to, oh, 20 of the most notable, but I'm sure someone's toes will be scrunched by removing a fav. Problem is, some notable players (Ringo McDonagh, for one) don't have articles (you can create one, I hear someone saying), and some obscure players have article links, so that's not a good rule of thumb. I'm open to votes from previous editors of this page for 5 of their favoritest players to leave on the list. Consensus rule, not voting, FWIW. TIA! David Spalding ( ☎ ✉ ✍) 17:26, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
I see that once again anonymouse editors and registered editors are adding listings to the Players section. Be prepared to defend teh notability of the players as I or other editors remove them. Relevant policies which discourage listing yourself include WP:NOT#SOAP, WP:COI, WP:EL. David Spalding ( ☎ ✉ ✍) 15:51, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
I'm surprised Sean O'Riada isn't highlighted in this article. I was under the impression he was very influential in bringing the bodhran to some kind of prominence in ensembles, replacing the drum kit of ceilidh dance bands. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Trevek ( talk • contribs) 17:35, March 12, 2007
This article failed good article nomination. This is how the article, as of July 15, 2007, compares against the six good article criteria:
When these issues are addressed, the article can be resubmitted for consideration. If you feel that this review is in error, feel free to take it to a GA review. Thank you for your work so far. — Giggy U C P 04:44, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
The writer was obviously trying to undermine the Irish drum and it’s origin and clearly had this agenda. Which often happens when the word Celtic and Scottish start replacing word Irish. The drum is Irish and not war drum but used in celebration. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.154.140.57 ( talk) 00:16, 1 June 2018 (UTC)
I'm puzzled that Christy Moore doesn't receive more (moore) attention due to him being one of the most notable players who doesn't use a tipper and who uses the instrument for solo accompaniment. ( 83.13.39.98 ( talk) 12:54, 12 March 2008 (UTC))
Is it worth considering a short section about the image the instrument has within trad music circles. The old image of a session with one fiddle player and six bodhrans spawned many jokes which are part of the bodhran culture, including the damned 'penknife' comment which every clown in the pub thinks you've never heard before.( 83.13.39.98 ( talk) 12:54, 12 March 2008 (UTC))
Commonly mis-pronounced /'bɒdrʉm/ (i.e. bodrumb) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.171.75.158 ( talk) 15:44, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
I've seen this painting (Snap-Apple Night) used in a couple of places (including at the moment here) along with the claim that is is a depiction of a Bodhran.
It's quite clear if you examine the painting that it is a tamourine. You can see the tambourine jingles and it is being held in the manner of a tambourine not a Bodhran.
Here's a link to a jpg of the painting. http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b66/StephenChambers/Maclise_snap_apple_night.jpg
There is another version of this scene that shows clearly that this is a tambourine: http://www.pipers.ie/images/gallery/BG/Shaughraun.jpg
I don't know who did this version.
Basically, the Comhaltas article seems to be wishful thinking and the claim ought to be removed from the Wikipedia article. Ecadre ( talk) 01:08, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
Here's a closer look at the tamourine in the Maclise painting: http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b66/StephenChambers/maclise_snap_apple_night3.jpg Ecadre ( talk) 01:11, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
Bodhrán was a good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. | ||||||||||
|
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This section does not seem to make any sense. There is no evidence that it was a war drum but this is what leads people to believe ti was? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.224.61.9 ( talk) 23:41, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
Could somone put a page for crowdy crawn linked from the mentioning here... I could fill it out then with some info rather than putting a mini article in this one (theres a fair few nice stories about 'crowdy crawn') , ie if you search the internet you won't actually get any relevent sites because 'crowdy crawn' is also used in dialect to mean something like 'micallanious', the reason being that people used their crowdy crawns like a drawer to store misc stuff in... etc. I don't want to stick all this on the bodhran page. cheers (NM) 131.111.8.103
modern bodhráns are usually tuneable.
there are different tuning systems and the amount of tuning mechanisms is somewhere between 4-12 in a normal tuneable drum.
however there are also some bodhranmaker that put even more mechanisms into their drum
famous bodhranmakers where these tunable drums can be seen are e.g christian hedwitschak (www.bodhranmaker.de) from germany ; seamus o'kane and darius bartlett - both from ireland ; norbert eckermann from austria
Pronuciation. This page says "bow-rahn", but bow can rhyme with "go" and with "how", so this is no help. I reckon "Rahn" rhymes with "darn". The ceilidh page says "Bough-Rawn" - here Bough could rhyme with any of rough, cough, though, through etc - hopeless. And "Rawn" rhymes with dawn not darn. CONFUSED! -- SGBailey 22:08, 2005 Feb 6 (UTC)
This had to go (although I agree with the sentiment)! Christy Moore may deserve a mention in the earlier list. The other two have not recorded, as far as I can tell SiGarb 18:53, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
Some of the great irish traditional players of modern ireland include such names as christy moore Christy Moore, Conchubhair Ó Tiarnaigh, Oisín Ó Cualáin and many more, such talent shall never be forgotten.
This is from Josh Mittleman's Bodhrán website [1], specifically [2]:
"The earliest extant use of the word bodhrán (v. Dictionary of the Irish Language) comes from an Early Modern Irish (ca. 17th century) translation of a medical manual entitled Rosa Anglica (Irish Texts Society, vol.25). There the word is found glossed as "tabur (i.e. tabor), timpan (i.e. drum)". We have no idea, however, whether it referred to a particular type of drum, or if it did, what sort of drum. The tabor was a particular type of drum in certain times and places. The Irish word timpan does not describe a particular drum; it can even refer to a type of stringed instrument.) Nor do we have any particularly Irish evidence for styles of performance. Frame drums with a bodhrán-type shape appear in continental representations from the 15th century onward, but no one has produced an example showing the double-ended-stick style which defines modern bodhrán technique. [My thanks to Heather Rose Jones for this research.] "
This is at least some evidence that the word existed pre-20th century? -- Fire Star 19:28, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
Coming from a cornish music background... The word 'crowdy crawn' which describes essentially the same instrument as a bodhran is a dialect mutation of a cornish language name. (I don't actually know what the original words were), and as the cornish language had effectively died out by the late 1700's this would give an origin of the word somewhere before this time. However it could have been refering to some other object before that, i know that a crowdy crawn was also used as a draw and grain measure and then emptied out if anyone wanted to play. Hence the phrase is also used to mean 'misculanious'. Don't know if this is any help.will look it up when i get home ina few weeks. 131.111.8.97
I didn't pass this one. Needs more references and the seciton on playing is confusing. savidan (talk) (e@) 04:00, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
The bodhran is an Irish frame drum ranging anywhere from 10" to 26" in diameter, with most drums measuring from 14" to 18". The sides of the drum are 3 1/2" to 8" deep. A goat skin head is tacked to one side (although today, synthetic heads, or new materials like kangaroo skin, are sometimes used). The other side is open ended for one hand to be placed against the inside of the drum head to control the pitch.
Hello, friends. – I'm restoring that image, as it's very good at illustrating how the tipper is held. I read the comments when removing the name (privacy concern), and see that Vincent restored the image, but wanted his name there, or didn't want his likeness displayed at all. I think that's fair, and the privacy concern was resolved when he restored his name by direct editing action. The photo was removed again, asserting that it's "advertising". I don't think it's advertising (as per
WP:NOT for advertising, article 3., but really article 2. Self-promotion is more relevant I think) just to have his name present. Referring to
Conflict of Interest: Self-Promotion, I don't think his picture or the band
Harmony Glen's page on WP fail the NPOV requirements.
... Since the photographer and subject have both indicated that they don't object to the photo's use on WP, I don't think we have an issue. Let's not get into an edit war over one silly picture. --
David Spalding |
Talk 16:47, 14 November 2006 (UTC) (bodhran player since
1975)
One often hears about the bodhran that before the Chieftains the instrument was used primarily in only one county of Ireland. Which county was that? Badagnani 08:35, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
The list of "notable players include" is getting out of hand. I'd like to limit it to, oh, 20 of the most notable, but I'm sure someone's toes will be scrunched by removing a fav. Problem is, some notable players (Ringo McDonagh, for one) don't have articles (you can create one, I hear someone saying), and some obscure players have article links, so that's not a good rule of thumb. I'm open to votes from previous editors of this page for 5 of their favoritest players to leave on the list. Consensus rule, not voting, FWIW. TIA! David Spalding ( ☎ ✉ ✍) 17:26, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
I see that once again anonymouse editors and registered editors are adding listings to the Players section. Be prepared to defend teh notability of the players as I or other editors remove them. Relevant policies which discourage listing yourself include WP:NOT#SOAP, WP:COI, WP:EL. David Spalding ( ☎ ✉ ✍) 15:51, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
I'm surprised Sean O'Riada isn't highlighted in this article. I was under the impression he was very influential in bringing the bodhran to some kind of prominence in ensembles, replacing the drum kit of ceilidh dance bands. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Trevek ( talk • contribs) 17:35, March 12, 2007
This article failed good article nomination. This is how the article, as of July 15, 2007, compares against the six good article criteria:
When these issues are addressed, the article can be resubmitted for consideration. If you feel that this review is in error, feel free to take it to a GA review. Thank you for your work so far. — Giggy U C P 04:44, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
The writer was obviously trying to undermine the Irish drum and it’s origin and clearly had this agenda. Which often happens when the word Celtic and Scottish start replacing word Irish. The drum is Irish and not war drum but used in celebration. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.154.140.57 ( talk) 00:16, 1 June 2018 (UTC)
I'm puzzled that Christy Moore doesn't receive more (moore) attention due to him being one of the most notable players who doesn't use a tipper and who uses the instrument for solo accompaniment. ( 83.13.39.98 ( talk) 12:54, 12 March 2008 (UTC))
Is it worth considering a short section about the image the instrument has within trad music circles. The old image of a session with one fiddle player and six bodhrans spawned many jokes which are part of the bodhran culture, including the damned 'penknife' comment which every clown in the pub thinks you've never heard before.( 83.13.39.98 ( talk) 12:54, 12 March 2008 (UTC))
Commonly mis-pronounced /'bɒdrʉm/ (i.e. bodrumb) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.171.75.158 ( talk) 15:44, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
I've seen this painting (Snap-Apple Night) used in a couple of places (including at the moment here) along with the claim that is is a depiction of a Bodhran.
It's quite clear if you examine the painting that it is a tamourine. You can see the tambourine jingles and it is being held in the manner of a tambourine not a Bodhran.
Here's a link to a jpg of the painting. http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b66/StephenChambers/Maclise_snap_apple_night.jpg
There is another version of this scene that shows clearly that this is a tambourine: http://www.pipers.ie/images/gallery/BG/Shaughraun.jpg
I don't know who did this version.
Basically, the Comhaltas article seems to be wishful thinking and the claim ought to be removed from the Wikipedia article. Ecadre ( talk) 01:08, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
Here's a closer look at the tamourine in the Maclise painting: http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b66/StephenChambers/maclise_snap_apple_night3.jpg Ecadre ( talk) 01:11, 20 February 2013 (UTC)