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Zionists love to say that anti-zionists (a political idea) are anti-semitic (a racist idea). But the concept is completely false. Bobby Fisher was anti-zionist, and despised US and Israels terrorist policies against the Palestinians and the Arab countries. But that is a political position. I would rather say a very respectful political position. But that has nothing to do with the fact of being Jewish, like Bobby's own mother and part of his family was. Bobby Fischer was not a racist at all, whatsoever. So please, Wikipedia editors, STOP denigrating Bobby Fisher because of your Zionist ideas, and start respecting him for what he was; the greatest chess player that ever was.
Ralphcook ( talk) 05:08, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
I didn't choose to be born a Anglican, and I no longer regard myself as being an Anglican as I do not attend church nor subscribe to Christian dogma. If Anglicans were dropping bombs on Palestinian people, without good reason, I'd be against the Anglicans, I'd be saying "Those damned @#$% Anglicans!", and the fact that I was born and baptized as an Anglican would have absolutely no relevance to my political views on Anglicans, as I am no longer one of them. So why is Fischer's genetic heritage always mentioned in connection with his political views? Was he seen in any synagogue within the last few decades? It is illogical and irrelevant. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.169.42.216 ( talk) 17:42, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
Bobby Fisher was a great champion and a hero to many. It is unfortunate bordering on sadistic to have this picture of him as a very old man when he was deeply lost to his mental illness. Like other greats who have succumbed to disease we don't remember them in the downward spiral, but at their triumphant moment. Michael Jordan slam dunking, JFK or MLK giving a great speech. No one would put the isolated frame of the Zapruder film where his head snaps back as the basic photo for a Kennedy biography.
Therefore I respectfully request that someone who knows all the ins an outs of Wikipedia please find a nice picture of the handsome young Bobby Fisher in his prime and affix it to this otherwise reasonable bio.
Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.42.220.203 ( talk) 21:08, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
Much, much better! Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.20.177.193 ( talk • contribs) 21:35, 21 January 2008
To be fair, this picture is not much better - he is now a grinning little kid which does not do justice to the seriousness of his life and his expertise. I know of a suitable alternative. It is at www.chessgames.com on his profile page and shows him a little older, maybe early twenties, completely absorbed in the thinking of a chess game. It would be perfect here. Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.176.197.190 ( talk) 08:04, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
Could he have had Asperger's? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 143.117.23.221 ( talk) 15:07, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
Prof. Roy Grinker speculated that Bobby Fischer and Vincent van Gogh may have both been on the autistic spectrum (giving reasons for this speculation) in his recently published book "Unstrange minds: remapping the world of autism".
I couldn't help noticing that in the media coverage screened tonight Fischer was shown complaining about the brightness of the lighting in some kind of press conference; I'd say that was due to sensory hypersensitivity that is a common feature of autism. I believe Fischer was known to have complained about sensory issues throughout his life. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.169.42.216 ( talk) 11:32, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
He certainly was not insane, but there must be some reason for his difference. I believe it's AS, since he was obsessive, reclusive but yet brilliant at his main interest. I've also seen people who knew him come on TV and say that he used to enjoy lining up yoghurt pots, and grouping them according to their colour. This to me is a sign of an autistic spectrum disorder, together with his social difficulties and obsessive, brilliant mind. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 143.117.23.221 ( talk) 15:11, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
The Wikipedia has an entire article about dead famous people diagnosed posthumously (not medically) with AS, by AS and autism experts, but someone has asserted that in Fischer's specific case, speculation from autism experts does not merit a mention. So why should we treat Fischer differently than Newton, Einstein, Cavendish, Glenn Gould etc and all those other dead famous people speculated about by AS experts?
I could go on to mention that the Wikipedia describes one well-known "autistic" autism advocate as being diagnosed with autism, while the article makes no mention anywhere that this person's formal official diagnosis was called into question in way back in 1996 in a detailed investigation by a journalist which was broadcast by the government-owned broadcaster in that person's home-country. One could argue that well-argued diagnostic speculation by a genuine expert can be more credible than a questionable official diagnosis, with regard to the autistic spectrum. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.169.42.216 ( talk) 18:04, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
After reading chapters 2 and 3 of the book "Bobby Ficher goes to war" by Edmonds and Eidinow, I don't have the slightest doubt that Fischer was autistic. There is much interesting information about Fischer's childhood in chapter 2, including why his mother took him to a child psychiatric division of a hospital (nothing resembling schizophrenia or psychosis or paranoia, but what appears to have been very typical Asperger behaviour). One important difference between autism/Asperger syndrome and other conditions such as schizophrenia and personality disorders is that all autists behave in the way that is characteristic of the condition right from early childhood. Another characteristic of autism that is different from some other conditions is that typically it is inherited and autistic characteristics can be found in one or more family members. "Bobby Fisher goes to war" describes Fischer's mother as an exceptional mind and a strong, socially jarring personality who was clearly a lot like her son. There's no way in the world that anyone can argue that Fisher was a normal person who went mad at some point during adulthood. It appears that he was very different from childhood. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.59.252.79 ( talk) 11:11, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
Sorry if this seems too trivial a matter at this time, but I'd like to know if this rumour is true. Many geniuses were left-handed, which I think is interesting.
...to have 9 separate sources to tell us that he died on January 17th 2008 from kidney failure at the age of 64? It's pretty much undisputed fact so it can be argued that no sources are really needed, 1 is probably good enough to satisfy guidelines, 2 if we really want to get pedantic over verifiability. Given that all the cites appear to be reliable sources I don't think that including them all for cross checking is really that vital... 124.183.180.198 ( talk) 13:34, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
Revise - since someone protected the page, I can't make the edit and don't want to log in right now. Anyone else want to take the "Trivia" out? 74.134.100.173 ( talk) 15:58, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
From the Philadelphia Inquirer: We redirected links from archive.org copies of our stories to our own hosted Philly.com copies, 21 January 2008. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ckrewson ( talk • contribs) 16:54, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
We can't use Bill Wall's geocities pages as reliable sources. They aren't solid enough to serve as the sole source for any statement, and we must also be careful not to cite someone else who is relying solely on Wall's pages as a source. His pages can be a good source of possibilities to research, or to put in External links as long as they are not relied upon as a source. Quale ( talk) 16:22, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
The treatment of his life in Iceland is short (as was his time there) - I wondered if he learned the Icelandic language. I probably wondered this because of the note that he called the radio station for the interview while he lived there. If anybody knows, please add. (BTW, thanks to whoever improved the line in the intro by changing the statement he was "Icelandic", which was jarring.) Tempshill ( talk) 19:19, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
According to an interview with a second hand bookseller he used to hang out with he did not try to learn Icelandic (didn't really need to since most Icelanders speak English) but read a lot of russian chess books. Unfortunately this was on Icelandic television and can't really be used as a source but hopefully it helps. When he called the radio station he almost certainly spoke English.
Óli Gneisti (
talk)
21:08, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
An interesting story about Fischer involves the Icelandic language and is found in Profile of a Prodigy. He spoke on the phone with the Icelandic-speaking child of a friend and was able to repeat what she said well enough for it to be translated -- this is certainly an unusual ability, consistent with his remarkable memory. He also did very well in Spanish in high school. I would guess that he managed to pick up a lot of Icelandic.-- Jrm2007 ( talk) 07:12, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSL1870892220080119
Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.238.243.14 ( talk) 19:40, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
The article needs a serious section of why Fischer became disturbed. In a forum I've written a bit on the subject [4] but we need some published RS for this article.
Are there any? The fact that he suffered the same mental fate of the other American champion,
Paul Charles Morphy, picks my interest piques my interest of why literature on the subject is so scant, if there is any at all.
— Cesar Tort 20:20, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
"Top board" as used in this article and in Paul Keres, for instance, would have a different meaning I think to when used in the article Graveyard chess. It's not used in the Chess article at all and as I'm no chess aficionado I'd like its meaning to come through in this article at least. OR, is it for Wiktionary to cover?<?br> -- User:Brenont ( talk) 22:32, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
According to this article, Magnús Skúlason was with Fischer at the end and reported that his last words were that nothing helps as much against suffering as the human touch. Haukur ( talk) 22:33, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
I can say with certainty that his last words were, exactly: "Nothing eases pain like a human touch." There was a English speaking friend with him when he died who reported these exact words. Hope this helps. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.176.197.190 ( talk) 08:12, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
I know some of the posters to this page continued to claim that the 2006 match I had arranged between Karpov and Fischer was "unsourced" and therefore never really fully underway. Grandmaster Susan Polgar said the match was real, with the $15,000,000 purse having been secured, in her quote in the Saturday, January 19, 2007 issue of the Philadelphia Inquirer:
http://www.philly.com/philly/hp/news_update/20080119_Fischer_started_reign_with_a_win_in_Phila_.html
This was compiled by no fewer than 3 reporters that exhaustively researched this article within the 36 hours of Fischer's death.
FYI.
GothicChessInventor ( talk) 03:24, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
It is interesting that he died at 64, and there are 64 squared on a chess board.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/19/crosswords/chess/19fischer.html This article mentions that he has a daughter born in 2000, now living in the Philippines. Does anyone know more about this? I think it would make an interesting addition to the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.180.172.167 ( talk) 05:18, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
Anyone else feel the above section is misleading? It isn't mentioned in any of the other articles about this match. And although the Soviets dominated chess prior to Fischer the match was between two people, not Fischer vs the Soviets. It's not as if Boris Spassky was cheating ang getting help from this subsidised Soviet chess hegemony (at least as far as I'm aware). Besides that, even the subsidised part seems unnecessarily POV. The Soviet Union was a coimmunist country yes and they had various programmes where they supported people in various fields to try and make them the best in the world. But it's not as if Fischer was (as far as I'm aware) the son of a struggling immigrant who worked his butt off while Fischer himself worked as well meanwhile finding just enough time in his incredibly busy live to play chess and just enough money to make it. He took part in champsionships, won prize money, presumuably got sponsorship from various people etc. I don't think there is any need to go into details about capitalism vs communisim here. How about we just settle on what most other articles (e.g. World Chess Championship 1972) say perhaps something like "an American player against a Soviet player, with Soviet players having dominated world chess prior to Fischer". If people really want to make this about American vs Soviet chess development, then it shouldn't refer to Fischer as simply a single individual either. Nil Einne ( talk) 09:26, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
Fischer's win was a momentous victory for the United States during the time of the Cold War: the iconoclastic American almost single-handedly defeating the mighty Soviet chess establishment that had dominated world chess for the past quarter-century.
Re "Bobby Fischer attended Erasmus Hall High School together with Barbra Streisand, and they were good friends there."
I checked Factiva and Lexis-Nexis for all languages and all dates. I found dozens of reliable newspaper and magazine sources linking Fischer and Streisand with Erasmus Hall High School. As for citing the fact that they were both friends, well, that's more tricky. I found this article (my emphasis in bold), but it's an op-ed column. I suspect that most editors here will object to using it as a citation:
"Streisand spent so much time in the Clinton White House, in fact, that even The New York Times was once moved to write: “On a clear day in Washington you can see Barbra Streisand forever.” Streisand was born into a modest family in Brooklyn, and almost from the get-go saw show business as a way to escape her background. At Erasmus Hall High School, she sang in the school choir with Neil Diamond and also made friends with the future chess champion Bobby Fischer. Rather than go to college, she took work as a nightclub singer, took the second “a” out of birth name, Barbara, to make herself more distinctive, and quickly made her mark at a gay bar in Greenwich Village. She has been something of a gay icon ever since – as lampooned in the 1996 Kevin Kline movie In& Out, where the protagonist’s homosexuality is betrayed by his love of all things Barbra. ---Andrew Gumbel, "The way she is," The Independent, EDITORIAL & OPINION, 5 May 2007.
Hope that helps, J Readings ( talk) 04:38, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
"They used to swap MAD comics, and, it is reported, Barbra had a crush on the future champion. Friends said they looked good together: even their noses matched."
p263 The Even More Complete Chess Addict, Mike Fox & Richard James (1993) Faber & Faber. (Book dedicated 'To Bobby - May he never cease to amaze us')
Ewen ( talk) 06:43, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
Source: Radio interview with Grandmaster Andrew Soltis and International Master John Watson:
http://webcast.chessclub.com/Watson/01_22_08/Watson_ChessTalk.html
Andrew said something to the effect of: "Fischer recollects some 'mousy girl' that he thinks he remembers was Barbara Streisand..." so I take it from that remark they were clearly not as close as is being supposed.
GothicChessInventor ( talk) 01:28, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
Well, ask yourself who has what to gain by the reference. Fischer is not discredited in the least if he was a friend of Streisand, and it would not make sense to conceal a friendship. Another question to ask, is if the biographers are more of "groupies" writing something the person that is the subject of the study wants to see in print anyway. If so, even to a small extent, then it's no longer a question of which source has "undue weight", but which source is "most reliable." Lastly, since Fischer cannot be consulted directly, it makes sense to confer with a source as close to Fischer as possible. Clearly Andy Soltis fits this description perfectly. Also, bear in mind, Andy has no idea this question was being debated here, and he clearly has no alterior motive of any kind.
GothicChessInventor ( talk) 02:14, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
The statement that he had a high IQ is unsupported. IQ is a test measurement that is unrelated to chess. Parts of the test reflect vocabulary level, visual imagination, and other areas. Lestrade ( talk) 11:03, 21 January 2008 (UTC)Lestrade
I've never seen any studies in depth about the relation between IQ and chess. I took an IQ test in which the definitions of "syzygy" and "orrery" were assumed to be known. A chessplayer can be very good without having such knowledge. GMs aren't stupid with regard to chess. Their intelligence with regard to other matters, however, cannot be assumed. Lestrade ( talk) 12:00, 21 January 2008 (UTC)Lestrade
Fischer's iq was around 180. Googling it gives you a bunch of sites supporting it. It was also in most of Fischer's video documentaries. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.95.20.39 ( talk) 20:36, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
The following link may be of use to glean some additional information that could be used in this article: Fischer’s Roots in City Tangle With His Legacy.
In addition, I have known Joe Virovatz (referenced in the article) for some years, and would be willing to interview him, if the information gotten from that interview could be used to help the article. Not sure if such an interview would be allowed in this article, however. Maybe Wikinews? Petrosian2 ( talk) 17:58, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
What needs to be done to get this article to the "Featured Article" level? I think it must be fairly close right now. Clerks. ( talk) 20:42, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
There are more interesting anecdotes/memories of Fischer here, courtesy of Stewart Reuben - http://www.englishchess.org.uk/national/2008/fischer_jan08.htm . Brittle heaven ( talk) 01:09, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
I don't think it's necessary to name every player Fischer defeated in his winning streak, and it broke up the flow of the article too much for my liking. I think it should be cleaned up a bit if it's put back in:
1970 Palma de Mallorca Interzonal Tournament
1 : Rubinetti,Jorge Albano ; 2 : Ulhmann,Wolfgang ; 3 : Taimanov,Mark ; 4 : Suttles, Duncan ; 5 : Meching, Henrique ; 6 : Gligoric, Svettozar ; 7 : Oscar, Panno.
1971 Candidates matches
8.-13 : Taimanov, Mark ; 14.-19 : Larsen, Bent ; 20 : Petrosian, Tigran.
Pawnkingthree ( talk) 13:05, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
Hi! A) The maybe most important point about the actions in Japan is without proper reference! In the part about Japan in this wikipedia-article it says: "The passport, issued in 1997, had been revoked in 2003, although Fischer incorrectly asserted that it was still valid.[108]" The reference 108 that is given leads to the website http://www.bobby-fischer.net/embassy_of_the_united_states_revoves_passport.htm On that site Fischer's view on the events is given. The letter that is shown is there to prove that the revocation of the passport was not valid! Fischer himself stated in handwritten letters why: In regards to USA-law the person whose passport is being to be revoked must been given 4 weeks to answer first. (4 if I remember right.) The letter never reached Fischer! That's why the letter is shown on that website: 1. There is no address on the letter! 2. When the letter was provided to the Japanese court, it was provided as the original, but without envelope. I have never heard about a final decision about this matter. And you shouldn't forget the third thing Fischer wrote about that alleged revocation: Though given by the dates from the USA his passport was already revocated, he went to the USA-embassy when being in Switzerland to have added more blank pages to his passport: It was given to him! There were no assertions or discussion back then that his passport was revoked. As far as I remember Fischer wrote that his passport was for some time in the embassy, until they finished the adding of the pages. Then he returned another day and fetched it. B) In the part about Japan in this wikipedia-article it also says: "Fischer unsuccessfully requested German citizenship on the grounds that his late father, ..." Beside the fact that there is no source given in the article, the only thing that I heard back when Fischer was in Japanese jail, was a German official of the Innenministerium saying that 'no such request has been received so far'. (Wasn't it the Bundesminister himself saying that? As far as I remember it was him.) CONCLUSION: To A) "... incorrectly ..." has no source given and is even wrong as there was no final decision about this topic at all! B) No source is given.
(I wouldn'T wonder if he tried to request a German passport but wasn't given any, taking into regard the person being in charge of the Bundesinnenminsterium back then, who is widely known of misuse of his administrative powers. Going along the laws here in Germany there is no way a direct descendant form a German father wouldn't be given a passport: It's ex sanguis here. =) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.23.103.21 ( talk) 00:47, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
Hi!
Is this the mentioned ebay-auction?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8736084948
By the way, it was cancelled: "The seller ended the listing early and cancelled all bids." http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=8736084948
Sadly today there are no more picture on the ebay-servers. 2 days ago they were still there when I first visited the webpage. You could even read some cardbox-cards with moves, though of course it wasn't stated if they it were really written by Bobby Fischer himself.
I really should add some extension to my Firefox for proper automatic caging of all visited websites. It just happens to often that sites or pictures vanish from the net. ): *Sigh* (Firefox's caching really sucks, sadly. Presumably on purpose.)
212.23.103.21 ( talk) 01:01, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
Any objections if I organised the materials from late 1950s to 1970 chronologically? There are sections on the US Championship and Olympiads which are out of place.
I'd put the summary of his US Championship results when the story reaches 1958 ('Fischer would go on to win the Championship in...') and briefly mention each event as it occurs in the chronological story. Similarly the Olympiads.
As it stands, the biography looks like the biographical chapters in Wade & O'Connell's book which successfully drew together key strands of his story, but made his development as a player and as a person difficult to follow.
Ewen ( talk) 09:06, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
In this edit, someone with a known history of being very sympathetic to Gothic chess added a link to Gothic chess to this article. Not only was the information inaccurate (the references sources did not, in any way shape or form state that Ed Trice had really secured that money, only that he claimed to have the money), but was not a relevant part of Fischer's life.
If Fischer himself made public statements about this tournament, I would include it here. But Fischer never said anything public about Gothic Chess. This article should reflect Fischer's life, not be used to promote an obscure chess variant. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Just to clarify ( talk • contribs) 17:06, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
There's no reason to keep removing this material. It's reliably sourced, and as long as it's just a passing mention, it's not WP:UNDUE weight. -- Kendrick7 talk 16:00, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
OK, I just talked with Kendrick. We appear to have consensus that we don't want the Gothic Chess material in this article, and that any attempt to add the material again is to be reverted on sight. Just to clarify ( talk) 17:07, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
The section about "forfeiting the title to Karpov" and the mention of "the Karpov negotiations" is somewhat misleading. Fischer resigned his championship title on June 27, 1974, which happened before his potential opponent was determined; the Karpov-Korchnoi Candidates final match was played in late 1974.
- Fisher didn't resign/forfeit his title to Karpov, or any other specific person, he resigned it to FIDE.
- Arnold Denker didn't represent Fischer in "the Karpov negotiations", he represented him in the negotiations with FIDE. Karpov wasn't a party in those negotiations.
206.186.10.101 (
talk)
16:27, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
The article states: "Fischer got the Grandmaster title in the first tournament where he had the opportunity to do so, a feat which is believed to be unique since the title system was first formalized in 1950 by FIDE." This is a problem, since the system wasn't formalized in 1950. In 1950, titles were awarded by nomination and committee vote. Formalized rules weren't adopted until 1953 when problems with the politicized voting process became apparent. Fischer won his GM title under revised rules adopted in 1957. See Grandmaster for the gory details. This claim needs a direct cite, and probably at minimum an update from 1950 to 1953 or 1957. Or it could be removed. Quale ( talk) 20:48, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
Now that consensus has firmly established that no Gothic Chess promotional material belongs here, the next question is this: What should we do about the IPs and Single-purpose accounts (SPAs) vandalizing performing disruptive edits on this page by trying to add this spam again and again? Here are diffs from just this week showing the spammer at work:
[13]
[14]
[15]
[16]. In one case, the spam was on the page for about 30 minutes before someone caught it and reverted it. So, how should we handle it?
Should we, for the time being, not allow IPs to edit this page? Or should we just leave things the way they are? Hopefully enough people have this page on their watch list and are keeping an eye on the changes that it will be reverted within five minutes of the spam being added (such as what happened the last two times the spam was added).
Thoughts? Just to clarify ( talk) 19:13, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
The disruptive edits are continuing: [17] [18] [19]. Quite frankly, I don't think they will stop until we IP-protect the page. Just to clarify ( talk) 16:05, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
Although I am a frequent user and editor of Wikipedia, I have just read through this article for the first time and in particular some of Fischer's alleged comments about America and Jews. Not even in Mein Kampf have I read anything so inflammatory. Many sources are given, but some of the more outrageous quotes are not supported at all, and the majority are supported by only off-line sources which are hard to verify. I really think that this material needs to made more verifiable or toned down. Viewfinder ( talk) 20:26, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
I am new to the article and I am not going to go through all the archives or go to the public library, so I will assume that consensus was reached. But I would still like to see more on-line sources. Viewfinder ( talk) 12:22, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
This section is way too long. It lists about 20 books (and at least one twice), and one not even in English!! What is this, an Amazon search of every book about Bobby Fischer? Can we just cull it to a couple of respected ones? Perhaps Brady's (because it is personal recollections), Kasparov's (because presumably his annotations would be of a high standard) and one or two others? Peter Ballard ( talk) 23:46, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
I made the following changes:
Changed from: Fischer, whose mother and probable biological father were both Jewish, [1] [2] made occasional hostile comments toward Jews from at least the early 1960s.
To: Fischer made occasional hostile comments toward Jews from at least the early 1960s.
Changed from: In his later years, Fischer lived in Hungary, Germany, the Philippines and Japan. During this time he made increasingly anti-American and antisemitic statements, despite the fact that his mother and likely biological father were both Jewish.
To: In his later years, Fischer lived in Hungary, Germany, the Philippines and Japan. During this time he made increasingly anti-American and antisemitic statements.
I made earlier attempts at simply maintaining it at mentioning the fact that his mother was Jewish but two individuals felt that it was proper to judge it as probable and likely that Fischers father was also Jewish and that those judgements had to be mentioned. Now they ofcourse could have judged it as possible instead but certain motives hindered them from doing so. I made some attempts at discussing the matter with one of them but eventually he stopped replying to me and decided instead only to engage me in some sort of a revert war.
It is mentioned elsewhere in the article that fischers mother is jewish and that it is possible that fischers biological father also was and there is no need to repeat it, furthermore Fischer asked that he be removed from the encyclopedia judica so he was not in favour of himself being called Jewish, by mentioning the fact that his mother and his possible biological father were jewish one is ofcourse only circumventing saying "Fischer was Jewish" and that is something he would not have approved of so it is best to be rid of the sentance all together. Another option is saying something along the line of "Fischer who himself was of Jewish ancestry...." and if anyone wants to edit the article in that manner then be my guest but for now please do not revert the article since the current version now is obviously better than the previous one. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.144.90.118 ( talk) 19:30, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
Just to clarify (wink wink) there is no consensus forming or "learning", there are two opinions for not mentioning these facts along with his antisemitism and with your so called vote there are three against, hardly a consensus also you did not revert any attempt at anything. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.144.90.118 ( talk) 19:37, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
Good faith can no longer be assumed from your part "Just to clarify", first you miscount and disregard an earlier count and now you're making wild assumptions regarding Billabrocks position which are contrary to what he himself said. Also if you truely had been looking for a compromise then you would have rephrased that sentance in the bottom part and used "Possible" instead of "Probable". Seeing your inability to count against and for opinions and your self given freedom to interprete what others write into something it clearly is not I ask that you make no more edits or reverts to this article by yourself. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.144.90.118 ( talk) 20:26, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
It is obviously you that has problems with working with others. Miscounting and misinterpreting things all over the place like some sort of a madman.
OK, it's a cheesy title but I like it...so there! I did a little research on this question, hoping to put to rest all of this back-and-forth. Using LexisNexis I found 299 articles. Granted, some of them are false positives so I needed to read through them. Here is a small sample:
There are actually dozens more along similar lines. I haven't read through all of them. Of the ones I have read through, I can safely say that journalists appear to be always harking back to the Edmonds and Eidinow claim made in an appendix of their book. Is it enough for an encyclopedia article? Hmmm...I'm not sure, to be honest. If all of the journalists continue to repeat the Edmonds and Eidinow claim without checking out the facts themselves, does it make it an established fact that Fischer's biological father was Jewish? I don't know. What we probably could do is simply attribute the claim to Edmonds and Eidinow and be done with it. What do others think? J Readings ( talk) 15:12, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
This guy Justtoclarify Deserves alot of credit for his annoying and childish bullshit that much is for sure my sincere advice would be for him to spend a little more time listening, reading and learning and such but hell. As for those articles you dug up they don't tell much regarding Fischers biological father and they give a distorted image of his anti semitism as can be seen from among other things the very article that we're talking about and I'll quote under " Life as an émigré " it says " He visited with the Polgár family in Budapest and analyzed many games with Judit, Zsuzsa, and Zsófia Polgár.[94][95] " Now if he was so damn anti semetic what the hell was he doing visiting and making friends with those jewish people? I also recall something from his personal homepage it was an email written from a young Israeli male and he told fischer about how he was a fan of his and such and then told him that he was an Israeli Jew and asked if Fischer really had that much against Jews and why? Fischer answered that he really wasn't that much against Jews but more against certain traditions, politics and actions taken by certain Jewish people. People are always focusing on his anti semitism trying to make the nice man (The one occasion I had the privilege to speak with the man he was very nice and friendly) into some sort of a neo nazi and it's just simply absurd if he really hated jews so so so much then he of course would have attacked himself with a weapon and reduced the population of jews on earth by 1.
(Unsigned comment by 194.144.90.118)
The program signs my comments for me, why would I bother?
Being nice to some Jewish people does not excuse his comments cause there is no excuse needed, Fischer was a free man who could say whatever he wanted. You may feel that you deserve some kind of an apology from him and any other person who says something bad about the holy Jews but that is not how the world works and by implying that you're owed such excuses you are actually only proving Fischer and others who would have something negative to say about people such as yourself right.
Do you really for one second believe that a bunch of "people" on the internet "know" that Fischers father was Jewish while Fischer himself was just completely in the dark? He probably actually knew the truth to the matter, something we never will. Adolf Hitler was anti-semitic, the KKK is anti-semitic, it is unfair to call Fischer anti-semitic, call him anti-zionist and anti-jewish if you want but calling him anti-semitic isn't fair. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.144.90.118 ( talk) 04:45, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
Who *exactly* has been saying that the image used all along is not a free image? It's important to be very clear about this. A anon IP suddenly changed it without warning or justification a few days ago. I'm unconvinced that it's suddenly a problem. If no real explanation can be given, it should be changed back to the old (and much better) photo. J Readings ( talk) 17:55, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
Completely off topic and against the rules of this talk page since it's not a forum but here goes: Fischer arrived in Iceland on the 27th of march looking like this : http://mbl.is/mm/myndasafn/detail.html?id=138049;leit_id=bobbyfisch-1207100556;leit=bobby%20fischer;booltype=and;wordtype=exact;start=;end=;;offset=28 Less than three years later he died from old age, I for one sorta disliked how we Icelanders took this man in and felt that it was just another attempt by our government to display some sort of power but just think if the Japanees and the Americans had gotten their way Fischer would have spent atleast another year in and out of jails and courtrooms if not a whole lot longer or shorter but such a badly worn man could have died alot sooner than he did free in bad circumstances in captivity.
And for what exactly? Playing Chess —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.144.90.118 ( talk) 01:54, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
This section has recently been expanded, which is welcome, but I wonder if the stuff on the Batsford controversy is a bit too detailed for this article and would be better off in the My 60 Memorable Games article? (Declaration of interest: I wrote the My 60 Memorable Games article). Pawnkingthree ( talk) 10:12, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
I find the first sentence very unusual for 3 reasons. First of all, I do not see the significance that Bobby Fischer was an Icelandic citizen at the time of his death. Numerous celebrities have lived in and obtained citizenship in a country different from his/her place of birth, and none of these have the unusual clause "at the time of his death" in their Wikipedia pages. He had been living in Iceland for several years, it is not as if he just moved there. It is also clear that he was not born in Iceland as I kept the "American-born" in my change. Next, the first line of any article should naturally contain the most important information. Winning the World Championship is far more significant than being a chess grandmaster and merits inclusion. Finally, grandmaster is never capitalised in the chess world. It is universally customary to use the lower-case of grandmaster in chess books, publications, chess websites, et cetera. I do not see why Bobby Fischer's article is exceptional among chess articles for capitalisation of this word; it is just highly unusual. I am restoring it to my changed version, and if it is changed back to the inferior version, I would like to see an explanation here for discussion. Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.221.162.77 ( talk) 03:42, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
"In 1975, Fischer refused to defend his title when FIDE, the international chess federation, would not accept all his conditions." Sounds a bit POV to me. SunCreator ( talk) 15:45, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
What's the deal with photos of Fischer? The one at the top (1) is a duplicate of the one farther down, and (2) he is almost unrecognizable there. He is deceased, so there is no problem with using photos of him. Let's use one where he looked like he was in hus prime playing years, perferably 1970-72, but could be a little earler. Bubba73 (talk), 05:59, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
With the claim filed before deadline, Jinky, 7 years, old, is set to get her share, and end the estate legal suit.Lawyers Sammy Estimo and Rudy Tacorda, counsels for Marilyn Young, 29-year-old mother of 7-year-old Jinky, announced on June 4, 2008, that the child was set to receive her share of the 140 million ISK Fischer estate (excluding gold deposits and royalty from the movie, "Bobby Fischer Goes to War)." Estimo stated that they learned from Reykjavik, Iceland, that the Probate Court had received the claim folder of Jinky Young before the May 17 legal deadline. gmanews.tv, Pinay child of late Bobby Fischer soon to be a millionaire sports.inquirer.net, Fischer heiress to get share of P140-M estate soon-- Florentino floro ( talk) 07:57, 5 June 2008 (UTC) -- Florentino floro ( talk) 07:57, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
I've reverted the additon of Roman Catholic categories. I note the article says he was buried in a Catholic church but I'm not sure that's enough evidence to put him in such a category. I'd like to see a bit more evidence of this conversion as it's not really addressed in the article itself. Pawnkingthree ( talk) 11:29, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
Would it not be more appropriate to list Fischer under 'Americans of Jewish descent' category? Fischer was not religiously or ethnically Jewish. He was part-Jewish by descent, so it seems incorrect to categorize him as a Jew, which implies that the person is religiously or ethnically Jewish. Karpouzi ( talk) 07:22, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
In the last revision I edited, I found duplicate named references, i.e. references sharing the same name, but not having the same content. Please check them, as I am not able to fix them automatically :)
DumZiBoT ( talk) 17:48, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
There's some inconsistency in the Bobby_Fischer#Young_champion section. It claims he became an Grandmaster following his 1958 victory at the U.S. Chess Championship but later in the article it claims he got this after Yugoslovia. The references cited aren't related to the 1958 victory. One of them says he became a USCF Master in 1957. Would someone like to clean this up? Thanks. - SpuriousQ ( talk) 08:10, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Before I start, just wanted to say that I think this is an excellent article - reading through it has left me in awe again about some of Fischer's achievements. I do have some comments / questions that I hope could improve the article, but don't want to make the changes without getting others' opinions.
Hope this is useful. Fletch79 ( talk) 22:26, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
Fischer-Harper
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | Archive 6 | → | Archive 10 |
Zionists love to say that anti-zionists (a political idea) are anti-semitic (a racist idea). But the concept is completely false. Bobby Fisher was anti-zionist, and despised US and Israels terrorist policies against the Palestinians and the Arab countries. But that is a political position. I would rather say a very respectful political position. But that has nothing to do with the fact of being Jewish, like Bobby's own mother and part of his family was. Bobby Fischer was not a racist at all, whatsoever. So please, Wikipedia editors, STOP denigrating Bobby Fisher because of your Zionist ideas, and start respecting him for what he was; the greatest chess player that ever was.
Ralphcook ( talk) 05:08, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
I didn't choose to be born a Anglican, and I no longer regard myself as being an Anglican as I do not attend church nor subscribe to Christian dogma. If Anglicans were dropping bombs on Palestinian people, without good reason, I'd be against the Anglicans, I'd be saying "Those damned @#$% Anglicans!", and the fact that I was born and baptized as an Anglican would have absolutely no relevance to my political views on Anglicans, as I am no longer one of them. So why is Fischer's genetic heritage always mentioned in connection with his political views? Was he seen in any synagogue within the last few decades? It is illogical and irrelevant. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.169.42.216 ( talk) 17:42, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
Bobby Fisher was a great champion and a hero to many. It is unfortunate bordering on sadistic to have this picture of him as a very old man when he was deeply lost to his mental illness. Like other greats who have succumbed to disease we don't remember them in the downward spiral, but at their triumphant moment. Michael Jordan slam dunking, JFK or MLK giving a great speech. No one would put the isolated frame of the Zapruder film where his head snaps back as the basic photo for a Kennedy biography.
Therefore I respectfully request that someone who knows all the ins an outs of Wikipedia please find a nice picture of the handsome young Bobby Fisher in his prime and affix it to this otherwise reasonable bio.
Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.42.220.203 ( talk) 21:08, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
Much, much better! Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.20.177.193 ( talk • contribs) 21:35, 21 January 2008
To be fair, this picture is not much better - he is now a grinning little kid which does not do justice to the seriousness of his life and his expertise. I know of a suitable alternative. It is at www.chessgames.com on his profile page and shows him a little older, maybe early twenties, completely absorbed in the thinking of a chess game. It would be perfect here. Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.176.197.190 ( talk) 08:04, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
Could he have had Asperger's? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 143.117.23.221 ( talk) 15:07, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
Prof. Roy Grinker speculated that Bobby Fischer and Vincent van Gogh may have both been on the autistic spectrum (giving reasons for this speculation) in his recently published book "Unstrange minds: remapping the world of autism".
I couldn't help noticing that in the media coverage screened tonight Fischer was shown complaining about the brightness of the lighting in some kind of press conference; I'd say that was due to sensory hypersensitivity that is a common feature of autism. I believe Fischer was known to have complained about sensory issues throughout his life. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.169.42.216 ( talk) 11:32, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
He certainly was not insane, but there must be some reason for his difference. I believe it's AS, since he was obsessive, reclusive but yet brilliant at his main interest. I've also seen people who knew him come on TV and say that he used to enjoy lining up yoghurt pots, and grouping them according to their colour. This to me is a sign of an autistic spectrum disorder, together with his social difficulties and obsessive, brilliant mind. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 143.117.23.221 ( talk) 15:11, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
The Wikipedia has an entire article about dead famous people diagnosed posthumously (not medically) with AS, by AS and autism experts, but someone has asserted that in Fischer's specific case, speculation from autism experts does not merit a mention. So why should we treat Fischer differently than Newton, Einstein, Cavendish, Glenn Gould etc and all those other dead famous people speculated about by AS experts?
I could go on to mention that the Wikipedia describes one well-known "autistic" autism advocate as being diagnosed with autism, while the article makes no mention anywhere that this person's formal official diagnosis was called into question in way back in 1996 in a detailed investigation by a journalist which was broadcast by the government-owned broadcaster in that person's home-country. One could argue that well-argued diagnostic speculation by a genuine expert can be more credible than a questionable official diagnosis, with regard to the autistic spectrum. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.169.42.216 ( talk) 18:04, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
After reading chapters 2 and 3 of the book "Bobby Ficher goes to war" by Edmonds and Eidinow, I don't have the slightest doubt that Fischer was autistic. There is much interesting information about Fischer's childhood in chapter 2, including why his mother took him to a child psychiatric division of a hospital (nothing resembling schizophrenia or psychosis or paranoia, but what appears to have been very typical Asperger behaviour). One important difference between autism/Asperger syndrome and other conditions such as schizophrenia and personality disorders is that all autists behave in the way that is characteristic of the condition right from early childhood. Another characteristic of autism that is different from some other conditions is that typically it is inherited and autistic characteristics can be found in one or more family members. "Bobby Fisher goes to war" describes Fischer's mother as an exceptional mind and a strong, socially jarring personality who was clearly a lot like her son. There's no way in the world that anyone can argue that Fisher was a normal person who went mad at some point during adulthood. It appears that he was very different from childhood. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.59.252.79 ( talk) 11:11, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
Sorry if this seems too trivial a matter at this time, but I'd like to know if this rumour is true. Many geniuses were left-handed, which I think is interesting.
...to have 9 separate sources to tell us that he died on January 17th 2008 from kidney failure at the age of 64? It's pretty much undisputed fact so it can be argued that no sources are really needed, 1 is probably good enough to satisfy guidelines, 2 if we really want to get pedantic over verifiability. Given that all the cites appear to be reliable sources I don't think that including them all for cross checking is really that vital... 124.183.180.198 ( talk) 13:34, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
Revise - since someone protected the page, I can't make the edit and don't want to log in right now. Anyone else want to take the "Trivia" out? 74.134.100.173 ( talk) 15:58, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
From the Philadelphia Inquirer: We redirected links from archive.org copies of our stories to our own hosted Philly.com copies, 21 January 2008. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ckrewson ( talk • contribs) 16:54, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
We can't use Bill Wall's geocities pages as reliable sources. They aren't solid enough to serve as the sole source for any statement, and we must also be careful not to cite someone else who is relying solely on Wall's pages as a source. His pages can be a good source of possibilities to research, or to put in External links as long as they are not relied upon as a source. Quale ( talk) 16:22, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
The treatment of his life in Iceland is short (as was his time there) - I wondered if he learned the Icelandic language. I probably wondered this because of the note that he called the radio station for the interview while he lived there. If anybody knows, please add. (BTW, thanks to whoever improved the line in the intro by changing the statement he was "Icelandic", which was jarring.) Tempshill ( talk) 19:19, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
According to an interview with a second hand bookseller he used to hang out with he did not try to learn Icelandic (didn't really need to since most Icelanders speak English) but read a lot of russian chess books. Unfortunately this was on Icelandic television and can't really be used as a source but hopefully it helps. When he called the radio station he almost certainly spoke English.
Óli Gneisti (
talk)
21:08, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
An interesting story about Fischer involves the Icelandic language and is found in Profile of a Prodigy. He spoke on the phone with the Icelandic-speaking child of a friend and was able to repeat what she said well enough for it to be translated -- this is certainly an unusual ability, consistent with his remarkable memory. He also did very well in Spanish in high school. I would guess that he managed to pick up a lot of Icelandic.-- Jrm2007 ( talk) 07:12, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSL1870892220080119
Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.238.243.14 ( talk) 19:40, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
The article needs a serious section of why Fischer became disturbed. In a forum I've written a bit on the subject [4] but we need some published RS for this article.
Are there any? The fact that he suffered the same mental fate of the other American champion,
Paul Charles Morphy, picks my interest piques my interest of why literature on the subject is so scant, if there is any at all.
— Cesar Tort 20:20, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
"Top board" as used in this article and in Paul Keres, for instance, would have a different meaning I think to when used in the article Graveyard chess. It's not used in the Chess article at all and as I'm no chess aficionado I'd like its meaning to come through in this article at least. OR, is it for Wiktionary to cover?<?br> -- User:Brenont ( talk) 22:32, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
According to this article, Magnús Skúlason was with Fischer at the end and reported that his last words were that nothing helps as much against suffering as the human touch. Haukur ( talk) 22:33, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
I can say with certainty that his last words were, exactly: "Nothing eases pain like a human touch." There was a English speaking friend with him when he died who reported these exact words. Hope this helps. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.176.197.190 ( talk) 08:12, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
I know some of the posters to this page continued to claim that the 2006 match I had arranged between Karpov and Fischer was "unsourced" and therefore never really fully underway. Grandmaster Susan Polgar said the match was real, with the $15,000,000 purse having been secured, in her quote in the Saturday, January 19, 2007 issue of the Philadelphia Inquirer:
http://www.philly.com/philly/hp/news_update/20080119_Fischer_started_reign_with_a_win_in_Phila_.html
This was compiled by no fewer than 3 reporters that exhaustively researched this article within the 36 hours of Fischer's death.
FYI.
GothicChessInventor ( talk) 03:24, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
It is interesting that he died at 64, and there are 64 squared on a chess board.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/19/crosswords/chess/19fischer.html This article mentions that he has a daughter born in 2000, now living in the Philippines. Does anyone know more about this? I think it would make an interesting addition to the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.180.172.167 ( talk) 05:18, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
Anyone else feel the above section is misleading? It isn't mentioned in any of the other articles about this match. And although the Soviets dominated chess prior to Fischer the match was between two people, not Fischer vs the Soviets. It's not as if Boris Spassky was cheating ang getting help from this subsidised Soviet chess hegemony (at least as far as I'm aware). Besides that, even the subsidised part seems unnecessarily POV. The Soviet Union was a coimmunist country yes and they had various programmes where they supported people in various fields to try and make them the best in the world. But it's not as if Fischer was (as far as I'm aware) the son of a struggling immigrant who worked his butt off while Fischer himself worked as well meanwhile finding just enough time in his incredibly busy live to play chess and just enough money to make it. He took part in champsionships, won prize money, presumuably got sponsorship from various people etc. I don't think there is any need to go into details about capitalism vs communisim here. How about we just settle on what most other articles (e.g. World Chess Championship 1972) say perhaps something like "an American player against a Soviet player, with Soviet players having dominated world chess prior to Fischer". If people really want to make this about American vs Soviet chess development, then it shouldn't refer to Fischer as simply a single individual either. Nil Einne ( talk) 09:26, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
Fischer's win was a momentous victory for the United States during the time of the Cold War: the iconoclastic American almost single-handedly defeating the mighty Soviet chess establishment that had dominated world chess for the past quarter-century.
Re "Bobby Fischer attended Erasmus Hall High School together with Barbra Streisand, and they were good friends there."
I checked Factiva and Lexis-Nexis for all languages and all dates. I found dozens of reliable newspaper and magazine sources linking Fischer and Streisand with Erasmus Hall High School. As for citing the fact that they were both friends, well, that's more tricky. I found this article (my emphasis in bold), but it's an op-ed column. I suspect that most editors here will object to using it as a citation:
"Streisand spent so much time in the Clinton White House, in fact, that even The New York Times was once moved to write: “On a clear day in Washington you can see Barbra Streisand forever.” Streisand was born into a modest family in Brooklyn, and almost from the get-go saw show business as a way to escape her background. At Erasmus Hall High School, she sang in the school choir with Neil Diamond and also made friends with the future chess champion Bobby Fischer. Rather than go to college, she took work as a nightclub singer, took the second “a” out of birth name, Barbara, to make herself more distinctive, and quickly made her mark at a gay bar in Greenwich Village. She has been something of a gay icon ever since – as lampooned in the 1996 Kevin Kline movie In& Out, where the protagonist’s homosexuality is betrayed by his love of all things Barbra. ---Andrew Gumbel, "The way she is," The Independent, EDITORIAL & OPINION, 5 May 2007.
Hope that helps, J Readings ( talk) 04:38, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
"They used to swap MAD comics, and, it is reported, Barbra had a crush on the future champion. Friends said they looked good together: even their noses matched."
p263 The Even More Complete Chess Addict, Mike Fox & Richard James (1993) Faber & Faber. (Book dedicated 'To Bobby - May he never cease to amaze us')
Ewen ( talk) 06:43, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
Source: Radio interview with Grandmaster Andrew Soltis and International Master John Watson:
http://webcast.chessclub.com/Watson/01_22_08/Watson_ChessTalk.html
Andrew said something to the effect of: "Fischer recollects some 'mousy girl' that he thinks he remembers was Barbara Streisand..." so I take it from that remark they were clearly not as close as is being supposed.
GothicChessInventor ( talk) 01:28, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
Well, ask yourself who has what to gain by the reference. Fischer is not discredited in the least if he was a friend of Streisand, and it would not make sense to conceal a friendship. Another question to ask, is if the biographers are more of "groupies" writing something the person that is the subject of the study wants to see in print anyway. If so, even to a small extent, then it's no longer a question of which source has "undue weight", but which source is "most reliable." Lastly, since Fischer cannot be consulted directly, it makes sense to confer with a source as close to Fischer as possible. Clearly Andy Soltis fits this description perfectly. Also, bear in mind, Andy has no idea this question was being debated here, and he clearly has no alterior motive of any kind.
GothicChessInventor ( talk) 02:14, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
The statement that he had a high IQ is unsupported. IQ is a test measurement that is unrelated to chess. Parts of the test reflect vocabulary level, visual imagination, and other areas. Lestrade ( talk) 11:03, 21 January 2008 (UTC)Lestrade
I've never seen any studies in depth about the relation between IQ and chess. I took an IQ test in which the definitions of "syzygy" and "orrery" were assumed to be known. A chessplayer can be very good without having such knowledge. GMs aren't stupid with regard to chess. Their intelligence with regard to other matters, however, cannot be assumed. Lestrade ( talk) 12:00, 21 January 2008 (UTC)Lestrade
Fischer's iq was around 180. Googling it gives you a bunch of sites supporting it. It was also in most of Fischer's video documentaries. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.95.20.39 ( talk) 20:36, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
The following link may be of use to glean some additional information that could be used in this article: Fischer’s Roots in City Tangle With His Legacy.
In addition, I have known Joe Virovatz (referenced in the article) for some years, and would be willing to interview him, if the information gotten from that interview could be used to help the article. Not sure if such an interview would be allowed in this article, however. Maybe Wikinews? Petrosian2 ( talk) 17:58, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
What needs to be done to get this article to the "Featured Article" level? I think it must be fairly close right now. Clerks. ( talk) 20:42, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
There are more interesting anecdotes/memories of Fischer here, courtesy of Stewart Reuben - http://www.englishchess.org.uk/national/2008/fischer_jan08.htm . Brittle heaven ( talk) 01:09, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
I don't think it's necessary to name every player Fischer defeated in his winning streak, and it broke up the flow of the article too much for my liking. I think it should be cleaned up a bit if it's put back in:
1970 Palma de Mallorca Interzonal Tournament
1 : Rubinetti,Jorge Albano ; 2 : Ulhmann,Wolfgang ; 3 : Taimanov,Mark ; 4 : Suttles, Duncan ; 5 : Meching, Henrique ; 6 : Gligoric, Svettozar ; 7 : Oscar, Panno.
1971 Candidates matches
8.-13 : Taimanov, Mark ; 14.-19 : Larsen, Bent ; 20 : Petrosian, Tigran.
Pawnkingthree ( talk) 13:05, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
Hi! A) The maybe most important point about the actions in Japan is without proper reference! In the part about Japan in this wikipedia-article it says: "The passport, issued in 1997, had been revoked in 2003, although Fischer incorrectly asserted that it was still valid.[108]" The reference 108 that is given leads to the website http://www.bobby-fischer.net/embassy_of_the_united_states_revoves_passport.htm On that site Fischer's view on the events is given. The letter that is shown is there to prove that the revocation of the passport was not valid! Fischer himself stated in handwritten letters why: In regards to USA-law the person whose passport is being to be revoked must been given 4 weeks to answer first. (4 if I remember right.) The letter never reached Fischer! That's why the letter is shown on that website: 1. There is no address on the letter! 2. When the letter was provided to the Japanese court, it was provided as the original, but without envelope. I have never heard about a final decision about this matter. And you shouldn't forget the third thing Fischer wrote about that alleged revocation: Though given by the dates from the USA his passport was already revocated, he went to the USA-embassy when being in Switzerland to have added more blank pages to his passport: It was given to him! There were no assertions or discussion back then that his passport was revoked. As far as I remember Fischer wrote that his passport was for some time in the embassy, until they finished the adding of the pages. Then he returned another day and fetched it. B) In the part about Japan in this wikipedia-article it also says: "Fischer unsuccessfully requested German citizenship on the grounds that his late father, ..." Beside the fact that there is no source given in the article, the only thing that I heard back when Fischer was in Japanese jail, was a German official of the Innenministerium saying that 'no such request has been received so far'. (Wasn't it the Bundesminister himself saying that? As far as I remember it was him.) CONCLUSION: To A) "... incorrectly ..." has no source given and is even wrong as there was no final decision about this topic at all! B) No source is given.
(I wouldn'T wonder if he tried to request a German passport but wasn't given any, taking into regard the person being in charge of the Bundesinnenminsterium back then, who is widely known of misuse of his administrative powers. Going along the laws here in Germany there is no way a direct descendant form a German father wouldn't be given a passport: It's ex sanguis here. =) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.23.103.21 ( talk) 00:47, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
Hi!
Is this the mentioned ebay-auction?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8736084948
By the way, it was cancelled: "The seller ended the listing early and cancelled all bids." http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=8736084948
Sadly today there are no more picture on the ebay-servers. 2 days ago they were still there when I first visited the webpage. You could even read some cardbox-cards with moves, though of course it wasn't stated if they it were really written by Bobby Fischer himself.
I really should add some extension to my Firefox for proper automatic caging of all visited websites. It just happens to often that sites or pictures vanish from the net. ): *Sigh* (Firefox's caching really sucks, sadly. Presumably on purpose.)
212.23.103.21 ( talk) 01:01, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
Any objections if I organised the materials from late 1950s to 1970 chronologically? There are sections on the US Championship and Olympiads which are out of place.
I'd put the summary of his US Championship results when the story reaches 1958 ('Fischer would go on to win the Championship in...') and briefly mention each event as it occurs in the chronological story. Similarly the Olympiads.
As it stands, the biography looks like the biographical chapters in Wade & O'Connell's book which successfully drew together key strands of his story, but made his development as a player and as a person difficult to follow.
Ewen ( talk) 09:06, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
In this edit, someone with a known history of being very sympathetic to Gothic chess added a link to Gothic chess to this article. Not only was the information inaccurate (the references sources did not, in any way shape or form state that Ed Trice had really secured that money, only that he claimed to have the money), but was not a relevant part of Fischer's life.
If Fischer himself made public statements about this tournament, I would include it here. But Fischer never said anything public about Gothic Chess. This article should reflect Fischer's life, not be used to promote an obscure chess variant. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Just to clarify ( talk • contribs) 17:06, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
There's no reason to keep removing this material. It's reliably sourced, and as long as it's just a passing mention, it's not WP:UNDUE weight. -- Kendrick7 talk 16:00, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
OK, I just talked with Kendrick. We appear to have consensus that we don't want the Gothic Chess material in this article, and that any attempt to add the material again is to be reverted on sight. Just to clarify ( talk) 17:07, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
The section about "forfeiting the title to Karpov" and the mention of "the Karpov negotiations" is somewhat misleading. Fischer resigned his championship title on June 27, 1974, which happened before his potential opponent was determined; the Karpov-Korchnoi Candidates final match was played in late 1974.
- Fisher didn't resign/forfeit his title to Karpov, or any other specific person, he resigned it to FIDE.
- Arnold Denker didn't represent Fischer in "the Karpov negotiations", he represented him in the negotiations with FIDE. Karpov wasn't a party in those negotiations.
206.186.10.101 (
talk)
16:27, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
The article states: "Fischer got the Grandmaster title in the first tournament where he had the opportunity to do so, a feat which is believed to be unique since the title system was first formalized in 1950 by FIDE." This is a problem, since the system wasn't formalized in 1950. In 1950, titles were awarded by nomination and committee vote. Formalized rules weren't adopted until 1953 when problems with the politicized voting process became apparent. Fischer won his GM title under revised rules adopted in 1957. See Grandmaster for the gory details. This claim needs a direct cite, and probably at minimum an update from 1950 to 1953 or 1957. Or it could be removed. Quale ( talk) 20:48, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
Now that consensus has firmly established that no Gothic Chess promotional material belongs here, the next question is this: What should we do about the IPs and Single-purpose accounts (SPAs) vandalizing performing disruptive edits on this page by trying to add this spam again and again? Here are diffs from just this week showing the spammer at work:
[13]
[14]
[15]
[16]. In one case, the spam was on the page for about 30 minutes before someone caught it and reverted it. So, how should we handle it?
Should we, for the time being, not allow IPs to edit this page? Or should we just leave things the way they are? Hopefully enough people have this page on their watch list and are keeping an eye on the changes that it will be reverted within five minutes of the spam being added (such as what happened the last two times the spam was added).
Thoughts? Just to clarify ( talk) 19:13, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
The disruptive edits are continuing: [17] [18] [19]. Quite frankly, I don't think they will stop until we IP-protect the page. Just to clarify ( talk) 16:05, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
Although I am a frequent user and editor of Wikipedia, I have just read through this article for the first time and in particular some of Fischer's alleged comments about America and Jews. Not even in Mein Kampf have I read anything so inflammatory. Many sources are given, but some of the more outrageous quotes are not supported at all, and the majority are supported by only off-line sources which are hard to verify. I really think that this material needs to made more verifiable or toned down. Viewfinder ( talk) 20:26, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
I am new to the article and I am not going to go through all the archives or go to the public library, so I will assume that consensus was reached. But I would still like to see more on-line sources. Viewfinder ( talk) 12:22, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
This section is way too long. It lists about 20 books (and at least one twice), and one not even in English!! What is this, an Amazon search of every book about Bobby Fischer? Can we just cull it to a couple of respected ones? Perhaps Brady's (because it is personal recollections), Kasparov's (because presumably his annotations would be of a high standard) and one or two others? Peter Ballard ( talk) 23:46, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
I made the following changes:
Changed from: Fischer, whose mother and probable biological father were both Jewish, [1] [2] made occasional hostile comments toward Jews from at least the early 1960s.
To: Fischer made occasional hostile comments toward Jews from at least the early 1960s.
Changed from: In his later years, Fischer lived in Hungary, Germany, the Philippines and Japan. During this time he made increasingly anti-American and antisemitic statements, despite the fact that his mother and likely biological father were both Jewish.
To: In his later years, Fischer lived in Hungary, Germany, the Philippines and Japan. During this time he made increasingly anti-American and antisemitic statements.
I made earlier attempts at simply maintaining it at mentioning the fact that his mother was Jewish but two individuals felt that it was proper to judge it as probable and likely that Fischers father was also Jewish and that those judgements had to be mentioned. Now they ofcourse could have judged it as possible instead but certain motives hindered them from doing so. I made some attempts at discussing the matter with one of them but eventually he stopped replying to me and decided instead only to engage me in some sort of a revert war.
It is mentioned elsewhere in the article that fischers mother is jewish and that it is possible that fischers biological father also was and there is no need to repeat it, furthermore Fischer asked that he be removed from the encyclopedia judica so he was not in favour of himself being called Jewish, by mentioning the fact that his mother and his possible biological father were jewish one is ofcourse only circumventing saying "Fischer was Jewish" and that is something he would not have approved of so it is best to be rid of the sentance all together. Another option is saying something along the line of "Fischer who himself was of Jewish ancestry...." and if anyone wants to edit the article in that manner then be my guest but for now please do not revert the article since the current version now is obviously better than the previous one. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.144.90.118 ( talk) 19:30, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
Just to clarify (wink wink) there is no consensus forming or "learning", there are two opinions for not mentioning these facts along with his antisemitism and with your so called vote there are three against, hardly a consensus also you did not revert any attempt at anything. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.144.90.118 ( talk) 19:37, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
Good faith can no longer be assumed from your part "Just to clarify", first you miscount and disregard an earlier count and now you're making wild assumptions regarding Billabrocks position which are contrary to what he himself said. Also if you truely had been looking for a compromise then you would have rephrased that sentance in the bottom part and used "Possible" instead of "Probable". Seeing your inability to count against and for opinions and your self given freedom to interprete what others write into something it clearly is not I ask that you make no more edits or reverts to this article by yourself. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.144.90.118 ( talk) 20:26, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
It is obviously you that has problems with working with others. Miscounting and misinterpreting things all over the place like some sort of a madman.
OK, it's a cheesy title but I like it...so there! I did a little research on this question, hoping to put to rest all of this back-and-forth. Using LexisNexis I found 299 articles. Granted, some of them are false positives so I needed to read through them. Here is a small sample:
There are actually dozens more along similar lines. I haven't read through all of them. Of the ones I have read through, I can safely say that journalists appear to be always harking back to the Edmonds and Eidinow claim made in an appendix of their book. Is it enough for an encyclopedia article? Hmmm...I'm not sure, to be honest. If all of the journalists continue to repeat the Edmonds and Eidinow claim without checking out the facts themselves, does it make it an established fact that Fischer's biological father was Jewish? I don't know. What we probably could do is simply attribute the claim to Edmonds and Eidinow and be done with it. What do others think? J Readings ( talk) 15:12, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
This guy Justtoclarify Deserves alot of credit for his annoying and childish bullshit that much is for sure my sincere advice would be for him to spend a little more time listening, reading and learning and such but hell. As for those articles you dug up they don't tell much regarding Fischers biological father and they give a distorted image of his anti semitism as can be seen from among other things the very article that we're talking about and I'll quote under " Life as an émigré " it says " He visited with the Polgár family in Budapest and analyzed many games with Judit, Zsuzsa, and Zsófia Polgár.[94][95] " Now if he was so damn anti semetic what the hell was he doing visiting and making friends with those jewish people? I also recall something from his personal homepage it was an email written from a young Israeli male and he told fischer about how he was a fan of his and such and then told him that he was an Israeli Jew and asked if Fischer really had that much against Jews and why? Fischer answered that he really wasn't that much against Jews but more against certain traditions, politics and actions taken by certain Jewish people. People are always focusing on his anti semitism trying to make the nice man (The one occasion I had the privilege to speak with the man he was very nice and friendly) into some sort of a neo nazi and it's just simply absurd if he really hated jews so so so much then he of course would have attacked himself with a weapon and reduced the population of jews on earth by 1.
(Unsigned comment by 194.144.90.118)
The program signs my comments for me, why would I bother?
Being nice to some Jewish people does not excuse his comments cause there is no excuse needed, Fischer was a free man who could say whatever he wanted. You may feel that you deserve some kind of an apology from him and any other person who says something bad about the holy Jews but that is not how the world works and by implying that you're owed such excuses you are actually only proving Fischer and others who would have something negative to say about people such as yourself right.
Do you really for one second believe that a bunch of "people" on the internet "know" that Fischers father was Jewish while Fischer himself was just completely in the dark? He probably actually knew the truth to the matter, something we never will. Adolf Hitler was anti-semitic, the KKK is anti-semitic, it is unfair to call Fischer anti-semitic, call him anti-zionist and anti-jewish if you want but calling him anti-semitic isn't fair. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.144.90.118 ( talk) 04:45, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
Who *exactly* has been saying that the image used all along is not a free image? It's important to be very clear about this. A anon IP suddenly changed it without warning or justification a few days ago. I'm unconvinced that it's suddenly a problem. If no real explanation can be given, it should be changed back to the old (and much better) photo. J Readings ( talk) 17:55, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
Completely off topic and against the rules of this talk page since it's not a forum but here goes: Fischer arrived in Iceland on the 27th of march looking like this : http://mbl.is/mm/myndasafn/detail.html?id=138049;leit_id=bobbyfisch-1207100556;leit=bobby%20fischer;booltype=and;wordtype=exact;start=;end=;;offset=28 Less than three years later he died from old age, I for one sorta disliked how we Icelanders took this man in and felt that it was just another attempt by our government to display some sort of power but just think if the Japanees and the Americans had gotten their way Fischer would have spent atleast another year in and out of jails and courtrooms if not a whole lot longer or shorter but such a badly worn man could have died alot sooner than he did free in bad circumstances in captivity.
And for what exactly? Playing Chess —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.144.90.118 ( talk) 01:54, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
This section has recently been expanded, which is welcome, but I wonder if the stuff on the Batsford controversy is a bit too detailed for this article and would be better off in the My 60 Memorable Games article? (Declaration of interest: I wrote the My 60 Memorable Games article). Pawnkingthree ( talk) 10:12, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
I find the first sentence very unusual for 3 reasons. First of all, I do not see the significance that Bobby Fischer was an Icelandic citizen at the time of his death. Numerous celebrities have lived in and obtained citizenship in a country different from his/her place of birth, and none of these have the unusual clause "at the time of his death" in their Wikipedia pages. He had been living in Iceland for several years, it is not as if he just moved there. It is also clear that he was not born in Iceland as I kept the "American-born" in my change. Next, the first line of any article should naturally contain the most important information. Winning the World Championship is far more significant than being a chess grandmaster and merits inclusion. Finally, grandmaster is never capitalised in the chess world. It is universally customary to use the lower-case of grandmaster in chess books, publications, chess websites, et cetera. I do not see why Bobby Fischer's article is exceptional among chess articles for capitalisation of this word; it is just highly unusual. I am restoring it to my changed version, and if it is changed back to the inferior version, I would like to see an explanation here for discussion. Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.221.162.77 ( talk) 03:42, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
"In 1975, Fischer refused to defend his title when FIDE, the international chess federation, would not accept all his conditions." Sounds a bit POV to me. SunCreator ( talk) 15:45, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
What's the deal with photos of Fischer? The one at the top (1) is a duplicate of the one farther down, and (2) he is almost unrecognizable there. He is deceased, so there is no problem with using photos of him. Let's use one where he looked like he was in hus prime playing years, perferably 1970-72, but could be a little earler. Bubba73 (talk), 05:59, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
With the claim filed before deadline, Jinky, 7 years, old, is set to get her share, and end the estate legal suit.Lawyers Sammy Estimo and Rudy Tacorda, counsels for Marilyn Young, 29-year-old mother of 7-year-old Jinky, announced on June 4, 2008, that the child was set to receive her share of the 140 million ISK Fischer estate (excluding gold deposits and royalty from the movie, "Bobby Fischer Goes to War)." Estimo stated that they learned from Reykjavik, Iceland, that the Probate Court had received the claim folder of Jinky Young before the May 17 legal deadline. gmanews.tv, Pinay child of late Bobby Fischer soon to be a millionaire sports.inquirer.net, Fischer heiress to get share of P140-M estate soon-- Florentino floro ( talk) 07:57, 5 June 2008 (UTC) -- Florentino floro ( talk) 07:57, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
I've reverted the additon of Roman Catholic categories. I note the article says he was buried in a Catholic church but I'm not sure that's enough evidence to put him in such a category. I'd like to see a bit more evidence of this conversion as it's not really addressed in the article itself. Pawnkingthree ( talk) 11:29, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
Would it not be more appropriate to list Fischer under 'Americans of Jewish descent' category? Fischer was not religiously or ethnically Jewish. He was part-Jewish by descent, so it seems incorrect to categorize him as a Jew, which implies that the person is religiously or ethnically Jewish. Karpouzi ( talk) 07:22, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
In the last revision I edited, I found duplicate named references, i.e. references sharing the same name, but not having the same content. Please check them, as I am not able to fix them automatically :)
DumZiBoT ( talk) 17:48, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
There's some inconsistency in the Bobby_Fischer#Young_champion section. It claims he became an Grandmaster following his 1958 victory at the U.S. Chess Championship but later in the article it claims he got this after Yugoslovia. The references cited aren't related to the 1958 victory. One of them says he became a USCF Master in 1957. Would someone like to clean this up? Thanks. - SpuriousQ ( talk) 08:10, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
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Before I start, just wanted to say that I think this is an excellent article - reading through it has left me in awe again about some of Fischer's achievements. I do have some comments / questions that I hope could improve the article, but don't want to make the changes without getting others' opinions.
Hope this is useful. Fletch79 ( talk) 22:26, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
Fischer-Harper
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).