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Fischer's play in game 4 of the Taimanov match was masterful & influenced a generation; one could say the same of thirty or forty other Fischer games. For other famous Fischer endings, see Game 1 of Larsen 1971 match, Game 7 of Petrosian 1971 match, Games 10 and 13 of Spassky 1972 match (off the top of my head). Kasparov cites the influence of Fischer's play in the pure B v. N ending (see Spassky's win against Fischer at 2nd Piat Cup 1967, Fischer's win against Unzicker, Siegen 1970). I am sure the editor of this section is aware of how Fischer horribly botched (by his high standards) the win in the 2nd game of the Taimanov match, only winning because of Taimanov's counter-blunder. Billbrock 23:38, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
The article says that USCF membership "peaked in 1974". It surpassed that mark in 1992. Should that be mentioned? Bubba73 (talk), 03:59, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
I think the point is, that rate of change in membership enrollments in the USCF in 1972 dramatically increased, the momentumm carrying it through until 1974. And in 1992, Fischer was again involved in a highly publicized match. Are both of these items coincidence?
ChessHistorian 18:14, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
Long overdue. Billbrock 07:05, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
Fischer's friend and childhood mentor, former U.S. Champion Arnold Denker, was in contact with the reclusive Fischer during the match negotiations. Denker, writing with his co-author, the respected chess journalist Larry Parr, in the book The Bobby Fischer I Knew And Other Stories (Hypermodern Press 1995), explained that Fischer knew he hadn't been playing for three years, and hence he wanted a long match to be able to play himself into shape.
Karpov, writing nearly 20 years later in his autobiography Karpov on Karpov (Atheneum 1991), expressed profound regret that the match did not take place. He views the cancelled match as the most disappointing episode in his own life, and stated that the lack of the opportunity to challenge Fischer held back his own chess development from what he might have achieved. Karpov, who had prepared hard for several months in anticipation, became World Champion by default in April, 1975, and went on to dominate chess in Fischer's absence for the next decade. Karpov has a high regard for Fischer's chess, and met with Fischer several times after 1975. Karpov wrote that the two champions got along well on a personal level, as they tried to reach agreement to play the match, without success.
Garry Kasparov, who succeeded Karpov as World Champion in 1985 and dominated top-flight chess for nearly 20 years, has written a five-volume series of books My Great Predecessors on the great champions who came before him. He writes that Karpov would have had a good chance against Fischer in 1975.
These three paragraphs should be condensed into one. Billbrock 02:38, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
O come on guys, what's up with that picture? Are you trying to make him/this article look bad? Can't a younger one be uploaded, as that one is even hard to look at. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.95.76.70 ( talk) 02:47, 3 May 2007 (UTC).
Image:Bobby-fischer-early.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot 04:52, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
Image:TorturedinPasadena.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot 04:36, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
I think the main photo of Fischer should be a more typical one. Bubba73 (talk), 01:42, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
The "to do" list has "Replace fair use images with free images, or obtain free licenses for existing images", but I don't know how to find free images. I think that having the only photo of him being taken as he was arrested might even be POV. Bubba73 (talk), 02:10, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
This sentence in the lead violates so many Wikipedia policies it is laughable. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.23.42.170 ( talk • contribs) 17:49, 15 August 2007
Not every antisemite expresses his beliefs in a way that makes said beliefs constitutive of his identity. I had earlier posted numerous examples from Fischer's home page. Upon reflection, I decided that the hate speech didn't deserve further promulgation. You can read the unredacted passages by reverting this edit or going to the source. Billbrock 01:16, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
I don't think that Google hits are a worthy judge of whether he is anti-Semitic (because someone denying they are would also rank highly in such a search) and frankly, Abe Foxman has been accused of calling people ant-Semitic when that actually does not seem to be the case (see his article for reference), so those arguments don't convince me. However, he has been called anti-Semitic in many articles appearing in the press, so in this case it's appropriate to say that. I also think it's appropriate to say: "However, Fischer's inflammatory statements have done little to diminish the professional and popular recognition of his singular achievements on the chessboard." In another similar example, William Shockley's scientific achievements were looked at in a different way after he got into eugenics. A reader coming across the first sentence would wonder if Fischer still has respect for his chess playing, and the second sentence answers the question. -- Gloriamarie 22:24, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
I believe Bobby Fischer is best known for taking on a group of Soviets by himself in a sport, and for beating them in a famous match in Iceland, and that is why he now lives in Iceland today, rather than in an Arab country at war with Israel. He is similar to the U.S. hockey team that beat the Soviets in the 1980 Olympics. The allegations of anti-Semitism belong in the article, but not in the lede. Mpublius 19:30, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
Is a call for the destruction of the United States really anti-Americanism? Some might deem it tough love. Billbrock 00:46, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
Well, they did turn him into the universe's only chess fugitive. GuesssWho
What's the point of claiming Fischer is "anti-imperialistic"? Anti-imperialism is a philosophy associated with the political left, originating in Marxist theories of imperialism. Fischer's anti-American and anti-semitic rants hardly qualify as advocating the collapse of imperialism. True, he would like to see America destroyed, but this desire doesn't extend to the rest of the developed world (as far as we know) in favor of the third world. I would suggest that the person who added anti-imperialism is wishfully couching Fisher's hatreds into a philosophy which historically had some currency among left-wing intellectuals, in order to make them and Fischer seem rational and less bad. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.125.133.177 ( talk) 21:47, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
I think the Gothic chess rumors should be removed from the Fischer article. Are there any good sources confirming any of this? Link 38. http://www.chessclub.com/chessfm is worthless as it merely links to the front page -- nothing can be confirmed by it. The rest are all links to a site associated with the Gothic Chess patent owner, so they are not independent. Ed Trice and partners are engaged in multiple edit wars right now and will certainly revert removal of the Gothic Chess stuff here as has happened at least twice before, so I wanted to see what other editors think. Even if the rumors have some validity, it isn't clear to me that they are notable. I don't know anyone who doesn't have a financial interest in Gothic Chess who cares about this. If anyone did, I would expect that third party sources confirming it could be found. Quale 00:56, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
They were not rumors at all. Anatoly Karpov signed the playing contract which is shown here:
http://www.gothicchess.com/images/Karpov_Signature.jpg
The signature of Karpov was confirmed by Lawrence Totaro who is a renowned autograph collector, see http://www.chessville.com/links/Site%20Reviews/UltimateChessCollecting.htm for example. He also wrote the book "Fisching For Forgeries" which can be seen at http://www.fischingforforgeries.com/home.html
The discussion of the Dan Heisman radio program was blogged around the world, including the reputable source on Susan Polgar's site:
http://susanpolgar.blogspot.com/2006/10/fischer-vs-karpov-it-could-finally.html
Another site mentions this too:
http://chess-training.blogspot.com/2006/10/fischer-karpov-20067.html
And even a low traffic blog has an entry on this:
http://rookvanwinkle.blogspot.com/2006/10/next-big-match-fischer-vs-karpov.html
So if was just a rumor, how come it was so easy to find so much information on it?
And look at this page, down at the bottom:
http://www.gothicchess.com/iceland_news.html
That is Grandmaster Fridrik Olafsson, Fischer's lifelong friend. He is holding Gothic Chess pieces in his hand. Also present was Frank Camaratta of the House of Staunton. He was contracted to make the wooden Gothic Chess pieces. From the other pictures, it is clear that they are in Iceland.
What would Frank Camaratta being doing with the inventor of Gothic Chess in Iceland, meeting with a friend of Fischer's who is studying the design of one of the two new chess pieces?
If you want the complete recording of the on-air article, here it is:
http://www.gothicchess.com/radio.wma
You need to listen to it with an older version of Media Player or with QuickTime or an exectuable of this sort.
And, finally, a complette description of how this match began can be found here:
http://gothicchess.blogspot.com/
I know all of this because I am a reporter for the Baltimore Sun and I actually interviewed one of the match financiers and the inventor of the game of Gothic Chess.
ChessHistorian 18:02, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
You want short, no problem. How can you say that photographs of a team visiting Iceland with Karpov's signature already on a contract means that the whole thing about Fischer is a rumor. Care to explain?
ChessHistorian
18:32, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
Excuse me, but the newpaper paid for my flight to Las Vegas to meet one of the billionaires who put up half of the $15,000,000 for the prize fund. The newspaper paid for my Amtrak ticket to Philadelphia to meet the game's inventor. I wrote the article myself. I verified all of the above after having called people like Dan Heisman and Susan Polgar. Another follow up article was published here:
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/nationworld/bal-te.checkers20jul20,0,5286891.story
but this was for something different, involving the same person. I will need to find the link for the original story from 2006. —Preceding unsigned comment added by ChessHistorian ( talk • contribs) 19:37, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
Quale 06:22, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
Well I see a local televsion interview about Bobby Fischer, Gothic Chess, and Trice is now on YouTube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54I8wqm2NeE
Perhaps this is as close as we can get to sourcing the events of Iceland. The contract signed by Karpov is shown in this video. Are there any autograph experts who can tell if that is Karpov's signature?
ChessHistorian 22:28, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
I don't think I agree with "(chess writer - not notable enough to put in lead)"... isn't Bobby Fischer Teaches Chess one of the best selling chess books ever? Way back when that's where I learned what a pin was and how to put together combinations and all the basics... I'm just one of millions... Dlabtot 03:28, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
Should the American flag be removed, and replaced with Iceland? Or perhaps both flags. He did renounce his citizenship. He cannot return to the USA without being arrested. Like it or not he is best described as a former American. This is the best edit of the info box I could come up with.
Bobby Fischer/Archive 3 | |
---|---|
Full name | Robert James Fischer |
Country | ![]() |
Title | Grandmaster |
World Champion | 1972-1975 (FIDE) |
Peak rating | 2785 (July 1972) |
Bobby Fischer/Archive 3 | |
---|---|
Full name | Robert James Fischer |
Country | ![]() |
Title | Grandmaster |
World Champion | 1972-1975 (FIDE) |
Peak rating | 2785 (July 1972) |
Geo8rge 16:16, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
Can someone perhaps stick in a photo of King Bobby on his Wikipedia page? (or instruct me how i can do this)- it's quite a big omission for such a notable figure. Thanks cogsyp Cogsyp 11:11, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
Since these discussion pages tend to only be read from the very bottom, I'll place this on here and let others decide if this sourced video material should appear anywhere in the article. I was not the interviewer for this so direct questions to the YouTube account who uploaded it and not myself.
ChessHistorian 22:31, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
ChessHistorian 20:44, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
I would like to call to the attention of the editors on here that two people are expressing their own personal opinion regarding a factual matter, and their opinion is incorrect regarding sourced material.
Oli Filth continues to say the sources of the material I most recently submitted is from Ed Trice who invented the game of Gothic Chess, when this is clearly not the case.
Quale continues to say the information submitted is a "rumor", implying that it is unsourced, when, in fact, it is not.
I direct the readership to first download this file, which is the audio from an online Interview that was on the chess.fm radio broadcast in October 1996:
http://www.GothicChess.com/radio.wma.zip
Decompress the file, and listen to it with Windows Media Player, or some other audio player that supports the stream format. The fact that you can download this file from a website owned by Ed Trice has no bearing on its true source, namely, the ICC chess.fm internet radio channel. They only archive their broadcasts for one calendar year, and Trice requested a copy of it in exchange for being on the program. Clearly that is the voice of Dan Heisman, who does the broadcast. His ICC handle is "PhillyTutor" and he can confirm that Trice was on the show to discuss the sourced material that is being cited here.
There is no way this was a "rumor" if so many people were involved.
Next, take a look at this YouTube video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54I8wqm2NeE
Note that it is from a company that supplies interviews with individuals from a variety of backgrounds. There is no link between Ed Trice, Gothic Chess, and the news agency that performed this interview. Their YouTube account is:
http://www.youtube.com/user/TheInterviewpoint
It is clear that this is 3rd party sourced material.
Also, take a look at the interview itself. Karpov's signature on the contract to play Fischer is right there. No rumor. Properly sourced.
This material belongs.
Clearly Trice was in Iceland, if you looked at the images that are linked from the blog:
http://www.gothicchess.com/images/iceland/alexis_ed_streetsign.jpg
And here is Grandmaster Fridrik Olafsson, longtime friend of Fischer's examining the new Gothic Chess pieces:
http://www.gothicchess.com/images/iceland/Fridrik_pieces.jpg
The plastic pieces are from the set Ed Trice sells online, the wooden pieces are designed by the House of Staunton:
http://www.houseofstaunton.com/gothicchess.html
Frank Camaratta, owner of the HouseOfStaunton.com, was on the Iceland trip to showcase his wooden pieces for Fischer's approval. Here is a photo showing Olafsson, Alexis Skye, Frank Camaratta, and Ed Trice all together in Iceland in a meeeting:
http://www.gothicchess.com/images/iceland/news_meeting.jpg
His phone number is listed on his website as (256) 858-8070 and their email address is sales@houseofstaunton.com
You can contact them to confirm that Frank was there, and the purpose was for Fischer to approve his Gothic Chess set for use in the match with Karpov.
There is plenty of 3rd party sourced material that supports the fact that the match was well underway, and Fischer was just being Fischer and backed out. This was not a rumor. This is fact. And Wikipedia was founded on the premise that factual, sourced material can be included in articles. —Preceding unsigned comment added by ChessHistorian ( talk • contribs) 18:30, 3 November 2007
What is proven that both of you are wrong. You change the definition of "source" to suit your own case-by-case instances and you don't apply the same standard to all articles.
There is 3rd party references that are proof:
1) The chess.fm broadcast - Last time I checked, Trice doesn't own ICC.
2) The trip to Iceland with Camaratta - Last time I checked, Trice didn't own HouseOfStaunton.com
3) The YouTube video - Last time I checked, Trice didn't own an online news reporting agency
These are all sources other than Trice.
There is no way your premises are correct when there is overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
And your point doesn't make sense: The 1975 Karpov-Fischer match was a "non event", so why is it reported and included in every Fischer bio I have seen?
The fact of the matter is: A match with Karpov was again underway, everything was in place, and Fischer backed out of the deal.
Plain and simple.
These facts are undeniable, and your attempts to dismiss them have failed. Many different people were a part of this. As a reporter by trade, I've seen the first hand documents. They exist. The online sources that have been furnished are more than adequate to include them as another indication of Fischer's personality: allowing a huge event to fizzle due to his own bizarre temperment.
ChessHistorian 20:38, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
ChessHistorian 00:35, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
Please folks; calm down, have a nice cup of WP:TEA. Obviously, there have been past problems with self-promotion around the topic of Gothic Chess, so of course there's going to be a heightened sensitivity and latent distrust for any editor who brings the topic up. It's probably not the end of the world to have a mere sentence on the attempt at creating this match in the article, even if it's purely the result of Trice's tireless self-promotion. We can frown upon that behavior, and editors who seem to be doing his bidding , but he managed to get this topic mentioned in the NY Post, and I'm willing to throw Trice a bone here. Whether User:ChessHistorian is actually a reporter who found the story interesting or a member of the Gothic Chess booster-club isn't particularly material, but let's try to WP:Assume good faith. -- Kendrick7 talk 17:33, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
This blog item is of interest, but doesn't yet merit inclusion in the article, IMO. Billbrock ( talk) 02:02, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
He may suffer from Asperger syndrome. Many sufferers show brilliant logical skills, in mathematics, computing or even in games like chess. The 'paranoia' he's suffering from could be part of Asperger's. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 143.117.23.221 ( talk) 10:48, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
I know this topic has been discussed in depth, particularly in the talk archives, but what is the exact evidence for the Jewish heritage of Fischer's mother? There are, from what I can tell, three sources in the main article. The first is merely an AP article that states it with no support. The second is Bobby Fischer's own declaration in a 1962 interview. The third is just a rehash of the second (so really not an independent source and should be deleted in my view). Given the fact that he later denied being Jewish (confirmed by the Encyclopedia Judaica), it seems that Fischer's own word on this matter is unreliable, and sources 2 and 3 are therefore also unreliable. Therefore the only evidence we have confirming his Jewish heritage is an unsourced AP article. Wouldn't the reply from EJ be considered stronger evidence? It appears that Fischer's Jewish heritage is far from certain, and, if not completely stricken from the article, should at least be accompanied by, "a fact that Fischer himself now vigorously denies." Does any anyone have real, independent, evidence that Fischer's mom is Jewish? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tubbyty ( talk • contribs) 17:24, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
Thank you very much for the information Billbrock. You gave me the idea to plug the information in ancestry.com and see what I could dig up. Using the family info from the wiki article, I found the 1930 United States Federal Census > Missouri > St Louis (Independent City) > St Louis (Districts 1-250) > District 189. On page 37 of 51, Jacob, his second wife Ethel, and their children Sylvia, Max and Regina are clearly listed. Regina's birthplace is listed as Switzerland. Included, under language (?), is "Jewish." I think this is the strongest independent evidence yet for Regina's, and therefore Bobby's, heritage. Interestingly enough, Jacob's occupation is listed as, "Salesman: Real Estate." Now, if only I can figure out how to reference this. Any ideas? Tubbyty ( talk) 03:11, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
Billbrock, are you meaning to say that the 1930 US Census is not considered a "reliable source"? Ok, I don't know if I agree with you, but if "numerous verifiable sources already exist" then let's get them in the article. Right now, as far as I can tell, there is not a single verifiable source cited in the article that supports the often-claimed matrilineal Jewish ancestry of RJF. Unless, of course, you are considering RJF's own word as verifiable even though he has contradicted himself on numerous occassions. Just because his statements are published doesn't mean that the truth of his statements are verifiable, but instead only the fact that he made the statements. In the absence of a single verifiable primary source, we should eliminate any claim of matrilineal Jewishness and merely note that on occassion RJF has both confirmed and denied Jewish heritage. Tubbyty ( talk) 02:52, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
Peter, I haven't seen any references updated yet. Any luck? Quale, I do not have access to a hardcopy of "Profile of a Prodigy" but I was able to find a preview on Google Books. I saw the page you mentioned, but as far as I can tell, the book is entirely unsourced. Is this true? If so, are publications without references/sources still considered reliable enough for Wikipedia standards? Either way, reference 2 in the article has to go. It is a radio excerpt that may or may not be Mr. Fischer and, as far as I can tell, does not mention his heritage in any way. It's still a little unclear to me what is considered a reliable reference on here, but I highly doubt unverified audio from "Radio Bomba" on Geocities constitutes one. Also, reference 3 is very weak as well. In the science world an unsourced news article is definitely not a primary source, are things a little more forgiving here? I don't mean to be a pain in the a** about all of this, but I just want to get it cleaned up. Doesn't matter to me one way or the other what the truth is, it just should be cited correctly. Thanks.
Tubbyty (
talk)
04:55, 23 December 2007 (UTC)
Do these quotations (all unsourced) belong in the article or in Wikiquote? I tend to think the latter. Billbrock ( talk) 21:49, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
Why can't we have a photo of Fischer as we was in his prime playing days, about age 27-29 (1970-72)? They have been put up and taken down. Surely there must be a photo available that doesn't violate copyrights. Bubba73 (talk), 03:30, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
It has been said according to the cnn homepage that bobby fischer is dead... www.cnn.com c_falco 11:46 GMT
In the Marca website it says he died in Iceland at 11:23 GMT. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.36.131.144 ( talk) 11:51, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
it is astonishing to consider that bobby fischer a chess prodigy and on-edge personality extrordinaire would die at the age of 64, the same number of squares on a chessboard, fischer who's whole entire life from the age of 10 revolved around the chessboard would live to the same number of chessboard squares and be limited in this life to that number, chess fans around the world are going to reverberate in their minds for some time to kind on this interesting seeming oddity —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.181.108.25 ( talk) 12:32, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
Someone should really add some of Fischer's best games to this article, all the other World Champions have some.
RIP Bobby SmokeyTheCat •TALK• 11:54, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
Fischer did not consider himself Jewish and his father was not Jewish as well. I do not consider it appropriate to put the tag "Jewsish Chess Players" on his article. For if Judaism is a religion, Fischer did definitely not belong to it. After all, what do you do with a Jew who becomes, say, a Christian or a Muslim? Still "Jewish etc."? Or what if someone has a Jewish mother and a muslim father? No, my friends, that's not the way to go. If someone is Jewish, he must CONSIDER himself jewish, but Fischer wasn't even circumcised. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.217.181.93 ( talk) 12:25, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
Again, this is wholly religious. Jewish law does not determine BIOLOGY. DNA does. DNA says that if your mom is black and your dad is probably black, then people who are so inclined can call you black, (since black is just a way to identify people who's great great great great great grandfathers had dna consistent with people who have historically lived in Africa. Same goes for Jewish. If your mom is Jewish and your dad is probably Jewish, then it doesn't matter if your a Christian or an agnostic...you're Jewish because your great great great great great great grandfather had dna consistent with people who lived in various Jewish communities. Let's just face it. The guy was Jewish. Also...antisemitism has nothing to do with religion. Antisemites hate agnostic Jews and Christian Jews because they hate Jews. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.35.204.153 ( talk) 20:25, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
Bobby Fischer is Dead. He died in his home in Iceland. Here is an Icelandic web coverage of it
http://mbl.is/mm/frettir/innlent/2008/01/18/bobby_fischer_latinn/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.148.70.130 ( talk) 13:54, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
Actually the article doesn't mention that he died at home just that he had spent some time in the hospital but the last two months at home. Both the Icelandic State Television and the webnewsservice Vísir say that he died at the hospital. I know that initially some Icelandic news services said he died at home but I believe that this was just a misunderstanding. Not that this is an important point but it would be better to get it right. [7]
We'll miss him and his crazy idiosyncrasies. Somebody write this section.--
Jondel (
talk)
14:37, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
It is highly improper, inconsiderate and rude for editors to continue to work over an "inuse" tag, which is placed in order to allow an edit to be completed. There is no justification for removing it and not allow other editors time to complete the work that is being done. Wildhartlivie ( talk) 15:02, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
If you become a naturalised Icelandic citizen in the ordinary way, you are required to take an Icelandic name. Did Fischer ever do so, since his citizenship was a specific act of the Althing which didn't mention a new name? Marnanel ( talk) 16:20, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
The article doesn't mention the child Fischer had during his years in the Philippines. Maybe it should? For some reason I thought it was a daughter, but Ljubojevic mentions a son here. Anybody know more? Skarioffszky ( talk) 20:45, 18 January 2008 (UTC) P.S.: The Atlantic claimed that "Fischer is now a parent: Justine gave birth to a baby girl in 2000. Fischer's fatherhood has until now been a well-kept secret, shared by his Philippine friends, who hope that this child will fill the void in Fischer's life that chess once occupied."
"Fischer, whose mother and probable biological father were both Jewish,"
Fischers mother was Jewish there is no doubt about that or well the little doubt that exists is minimum but to say that Fishcers biological father was probably Jewish or "Fischer, whose mother and probable biological father were both Jewish" that's just simply wrong. This theory that his father was infact Jewish is alright and maybe it's even correct but say that his father was probably Jewish is stating an opinion which is not backed by facts, it is most probable that Fischers father was his registered birthfather and nobody else so if one would like to use the written text in a changed correct form then it should say "Fischer, whose mother was Jewish and whose probable biological father was not,"...
I don't feel like rewriting that line to look right so I ask that someone else changes it, if not done soon however I'll simply delete it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.144.90.118 ( talk) 20:45, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
{{ protected}} Was it? If so how widely? Not in the Soviet Union surely? "pitting a single American against the Soviet system" should be deleted. Bias and stuff, innit? 86.42.111.78 ( talk) 22:43, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
Do you think the pictures in the article look silly? I know I've seen much better pictures of Fischer. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.59.85.233 ( talk) 23:52, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
It has been a long time policy of the editos of wikipedia to: 1. Stress to anoyance that Bobby Fischer was jewish, while Bobby Ficher himself did non want anybody to consider him jewish. 2. That he was Icelander instead of American, while he has been only 3 years from that nationality, and only as a result of political asilum offered by Iceland, after the politicaal persecution of the U.S. against Bobby Fisher. The resut is that editing of this page is blocked, under the excuse of vandalism. Wikipedia is becoming to know as a dictatorship of its core editors. Truly, no wonder. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.17.85.163 ( talk) 20:36, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
Please, can you explain, why you have removed the Category:Icelandic people from the article. The discription was that this category is controversal. For me, this breaks the NPOV. I am noting again, that the facts that he has got the Icelandic citizenship makes him an Icelandic. This is written in the introduction and in the infobox. It should be added in the categories. This doesn't mean that he was Icelandic chess player.-- Kiril Simeonovski ( talk) 14:01, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
Could you name me some Icelandic people?-- 194x144x90x118 ( talk) 08:36, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
Of course, Fischer would not be classified as famous Icelandic, because he has all done as American. And, the fact that there aren't enough notable and popular Icelandic people is not decisive to give away this category from the article. It' s more a technical addition. Mohandas Gandhi spent 21 year living in South Africa, but I bet that 50% of the contestants in this discussion knew it, and consider Gandhi as South African. He was also ranked 3rd greatest South African of all time. I think that the citizenship does not influence on the national consideration. It is also obvious that many people know about Bobby Fischer as one of the greates American chess players of all time, but don't know about his late years.-- Kiril Simeonovski ( talk) 00:01, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
Gandhi wasn't South African, although he spent 21 year in South Africa, but is regarded as South African, according to the South African votes for person of all times. For me it's enough for Bobby Fischer to say that he was in the group of "Icelandic people". Ok, then. The same question above for all:
"Can you tell me, then what is the definition for "American people". Are Americans people from the indigenous tribes, that populated today's territory of the USA, or Americans are English, French, Russian, German, Italian, and other immigrants?"
As American citizens become "American people", it is same with other nationalities. Don't make discrimination. -- Kiril Simeonovski ( talk) 11:21, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
In the US and Canada you are strongly encouraged to speak English (in Canada, either English or French) but whether you do, or not, if you are a citizen you are equal to any other citizen...period. In the US: American citizen=American people in Canada: Canadian citizen=Canadian people. BashBrannigan ( talk) 16:20, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
Would it not be more appropriate to list Fischer under 'Americans of Jewish descent' category? Fischer was not religiously or ethnically Jewish. He was part-Jewish by descent, so it seems incorrect to categorize him as a Jew, which implies that the person is religiously or ethnically Jewish. Karpouzi ( talk) 07:22, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
There are certain elements that are extremely prejudice and intolerant namely bigots they dislike the poor dead great man Fischer and wish to portray him in the most humiliating light possible so therefor they like to boldly state that Fischer's father was Jewish like they themselves were present when he was conceived and saw a circumcised dick entering his mother or something similarly idiotic. Well I say to you idiots FUCK you, that's right, Fischer was a Great man and a great guy and those that think negatively of him should simply be ashamed of themselves for they are the ones that are flawed and filthy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.144.74.14 ( talk) 01:28, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
And so it goes. When I met him in the 80's he was a complete prick, and it looks like little had changed as he got older. No surprise someone as foul-mouthed as the above would be calling him a "great man". It's hilarious how these types insist Jews are a "race" and then say that it's a lie that anti-semites had Jewish parents. Heads up, Fischer had a Jewish parent, and so did Adolf Hitler. By their own standards, they were both subhuman scum because of it. SoheiFox ( talk) 06:31, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
Firstly, a person is only considered Jewish is their mother is, irrespective of the father being one or not. While Fischer's mother was of Polish-Jewish descent, I have found no source confirming she was Jewish and ethnicity depends on what else was in the mix. Suffice to say he had Jewish ancestry but it's not all that relevant. Secondly, tose who claim the term antisemitic includes hatred of Arabs are deluded as those who hang on to the archaic meaning of decimated to mean reducing by one tenth. Sure it is true that the word semitic refers to both Arabs and Jews, as the the prefix Homo refers to men, but one wouldn't be stupid enought to confuse "homoophobic" as meaning fear or hatred of all men. Dainamo ( talk) 00:37, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E1%BD%8D%CE%BC%CE%BF-#.CE.9F, however semitic is quite clear.
Did I miss a mention of some of Bobby Fischer's sexist remarks in the article? Surely these are noteworthy...-- ZincBelief ( talk) 14:08, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
There is almost no support for the entire section of the article Bobby_Fischer#Involvement_with_the_Worldwide_Church_of_God. Apart from the first sentence which I put in, concerning the skepticism Fischer about religion that Fischer had previously expressed to Ralph Ginzburg, almost everything in the section is unsupported. Moreover, the only sources cited for anything are two Internet articles critical of Garner Ted Armstrong and the Church by the "Ambassador Report", whatever that is. I question whether these are reliable sources. If, as I have suggested on the WikiProject Chess talk page, we try to get this article to Good Article status, this section will be an obvious target. We should either furnish reliable sources for this section, or delete it. Krakatoa ( talk) 11:10, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | → | Archive 10 |
Fischer's play in game 4 of the Taimanov match was masterful & influenced a generation; one could say the same of thirty or forty other Fischer games. For other famous Fischer endings, see Game 1 of Larsen 1971 match, Game 7 of Petrosian 1971 match, Games 10 and 13 of Spassky 1972 match (off the top of my head). Kasparov cites the influence of Fischer's play in the pure B v. N ending (see Spassky's win against Fischer at 2nd Piat Cup 1967, Fischer's win against Unzicker, Siegen 1970). I am sure the editor of this section is aware of how Fischer horribly botched (by his high standards) the win in the 2nd game of the Taimanov match, only winning because of Taimanov's counter-blunder. Billbrock 23:38, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
The article says that USCF membership "peaked in 1974". It surpassed that mark in 1992. Should that be mentioned? Bubba73 (talk), 03:59, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
I think the point is, that rate of change in membership enrollments in the USCF in 1972 dramatically increased, the momentumm carrying it through until 1974. And in 1992, Fischer was again involved in a highly publicized match. Are both of these items coincidence?
ChessHistorian 18:14, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
Long overdue. Billbrock 07:05, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
Fischer's friend and childhood mentor, former U.S. Champion Arnold Denker, was in contact with the reclusive Fischer during the match negotiations. Denker, writing with his co-author, the respected chess journalist Larry Parr, in the book The Bobby Fischer I Knew And Other Stories (Hypermodern Press 1995), explained that Fischer knew he hadn't been playing for three years, and hence he wanted a long match to be able to play himself into shape.
Karpov, writing nearly 20 years later in his autobiography Karpov on Karpov (Atheneum 1991), expressed profound regret that the match did not take place. He views the cancelled match as the most disappointing episode in his own life, and stated that the lack of the opportunity to challenge Fischer held back his own chess development from what he might have achieved. Karpov, who had prepared hard for several months in anticipation, became World Champion by default in April, 1975, and went on to dominate chess in Fischer's absence for the next decade. Karpov has a high regard for Fischer's chess, and met with Fischer several times after 1975. Karpov wrote that the two champions got along well on a personal level, as they tried to reach agreement to play the match, without success.
Garry Kasparov, who succeeded Karpov as World Champion in 1985 and dominated top-flight chess for nearly 20 years, has written a five-volume series of books My Great Predecessors on the great champions who came before him. He writes that Karpov would have had a good chance against Fischer in 1975.
These three paragraphs should be condensed into one. Billbrock 02:38, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
O come on guys, what's up with that picture? Are you trying to make him/this article look bad? Can't a younger one be uploaded, as that one is even hard to look at. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.95.76.70 ( talk) 02:47, 3 May 2007 (UTC).
Image:Bobby-fischer-early.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot 04:52, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
Image:TorturedinPasadena.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot 04:36, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
I think the main photo of Fischer should be a more typical one. Bubba73 (talk), 01:42, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
The "to do" list has "Replace fair use images with free images, or obtain free licenses for existing images", but I don't know how to find free images. I think that having the only photo of him being taken as he was arrested might even be POV. Bubba73 (talk), 02:10, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
This sentence in the lead violates so many Wikipedia policies it is laughable. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.23.42.170 ( talk • contribs) 17:49, 15 August 2007
Not every antisemite expresses his beliefs in a way that makes said beliefs constitutive of his identity. I had earlier posted numerous examples from Fischer's home page. Upon reflection, I decided that the hate speech didn't deserve further promulgation. You can read the unredacted passages by reverting this edit or going to the source. Billbrock 01:16, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
I don't think that Google hits are a worthy judge of whether he is anti-Semitic (because someone denying they are would also rank highly in such a search) and frankly, Abe Foxman has been accused of calling people ant-Semitic when that actually does not seem to be the case (see his article for reference), so those arguments don't convince me. However, he has been called anti-Semitic in many articles appearing in the press, so in this case it's appropriate to say that. I also think it's appropriate to say: "However, Fischer's inflammatory statements have done little to diminish the professional and popular recognition of his singular achievements on the chessboard." In another similar example, William Shockley's scientific achievements were looked at in a different way after he got into eugenics. A reader coming across the first sentence would wonder if Fischer still has respect for his chess playing, and the second sentence answers the question. -- Gloriamarie 22:24, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
I believe Bobby Fischer is best known for taking on a group of Soviets by himself in a sport, and for beating them in a famous match in Iceland, and that is why he now lives in Iceland today, rather than in an Arab country at war with Israel. He is similar to the U.S. hockey team that beat the Soviets in the 1980 Olympics. The allegations of anti-Semitism belong in the article, but not in the lede. Mpublius 19:30, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
Is a call for the destruction of the United States really anti-Americanism? Some might deem it tough love. Billbrock 00:46, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
Well, they did turn him into the universe's only chess fugitive. GuesssWho
What's the point of claiming Fischer is "anti-imperialistic"? Anti-imperialism is a philosophy associated with the political left, originating in Marxist theories of imperialism. Fischer's anti-American and anti-semitic rants hardly qualify as advocating the collapse of imperialism. True, he would like to see America destroyed, but this desire doesn't extend to the rest of the developed world (as far as we know) in favor of the third world. I would suggest that the person who added anti-imperialism is wishfully couching Fisher's hatreds into a philosophy which historically had some currency among left-wing intellectuals, in order to make them and Fischer seem rational and less bad. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.125.133.177 ( talk) 21:47, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
I think the Gothic chess rumors should be removed from the Fischer article. Are there any good sources confirming any of this? Link 38. http://www.chessclub.com/chessfm is worthless as it merely links to the front page -- nothing can be confirmed by it. The rest are all links to a site associated with the Gothic Chess patent owner, so they are not independent. Ed Trice and partners are engaged in multiple edit wars right now and will certainly revert removal of the Gothic Chess stuff here as has happened at least twice before, so I wanted to see what other editors think. Even if the rumors have some validity, it isn't clear to me that they are notable. I don't know anyone who doesn't have a financial interest in Gothic Chess who cares about this. If anyone did, I would expect that third party sources confirming it could be found. Quale 00:56, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
They were not rumors at all. Anatoly Karpov signed the playing contract which is shown here:
http://www.gothicchess.com/images/Karpov_Signature.jpg
The signature of Karpov was confirmed by Lawrence Totaro who is a renowned autograph collector, see http://www.chessville.com/links/Site%20Reviews/UltimateChessCollecting.htm for example. He also wrote the book "Fisching For Forgeries" which can be seen at http://www.fischingforforgeries.com/home.html
The discussion of the Dan Heisman radio program was blogged around the world, including the reputable source on Susan Polgar's site:
http://susanpolgar.blogspot.com/2006/10/fischer-vs-karpov-it-could-finally.html
Another site mentions this too:
http://chess-training.blogspot.com/2006/10/fischer-karpov-20067.html
And even a low traffic blog has an entry on this:
http://rookvanwinkle.blogspot.com/2006/10/next-big-match-fischer-vs-karpov.html
So if was just a rumor, how come it was so easy to find so much information on it?
And look at this page, down at the bottom:
http://www.gothicchess.com/iceland_news.html
That is Grandmaster Fridrik Olafsson, Fischer's lifelong friend. He is holding Gothic Chess pieces in his hand. Also present was Frank Camaratta of the House of Staunton. He was contracted to make the wooden Gothic Chess pieces. From the other pictures, it is clear that they are in Iceland.
What would Frank Camaratta being doing with the inventor of Gothic Chess in Iceland, meeting with a friend of Fischer's who is studying the design of one of the two new chess pieces?
If you want the complete recording of the on-air article, here it is:
http://www.gothicchess.com/radio.wma
You need to listen to it with an older version of Media Player or with QuickTime or an exectuable of this sort.
And, finally, a complette description of how this match began can be found here:
http://gothicchess.blogspot.com/
I know all of this because I am a reporter for the Baltimore Sun and I actually interviewed one of the match financiers and the inventor of the game of Gothic Chess.
ChessHistorian 18:02, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
You want short, no problem. How can you say that photographs of a team visiting Iceland with Karpov's signature already on a contract means that the whole thing about Fischer is a rumor. Care to explain?
ChessHistorian
18:32, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
Excuse me, but the newpaper paid for my flight to Las Vegas to meet one of the billionaires who put up half of the $15,000,000 for the prize fund. The newspaper paid for my Amtrak ticket to Philadelphia to meet the game's inventor. I wrote the article myself. I verified all of the above after having called people like Dan Heisman and Susan Polgar. Another follow up article was published here:
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/nationworld/bal-te.checkers20jul20,0,5286891.story
but this was for something different, involving the same person. I will need to find the link for the original story from 2006. —Preceding unsigned comment added by ChessHistorian ( talk • contribs) 19:37, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
Quale 06:22, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
Well I see a local televsion interview about Bobby Fischer, Gothic Chess, and Trice is now on YouTube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54I8wqm2NeE
Perhaps this is as close as we can get to sourcing the events of Iceland. The contract signed by Karpov is shown in this video. Are there any autograph experts who can tell if that is Karpov's signature?
ChessHistorian 22:28, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
I don't think I agree with "(chess writer - not notable enough to put in lead)"... isn't Bobby Fischer Teaches Chess one of the best selling chess books ever? Way back when that's where I learned what a pin was and how to put together combinations and all the basics... I'm just one of millions... Dlabtot 03:28, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
Should the American flag be removed, and replaced with Iceland? Or perhaps both flags. He did renounce his citizenship. He cannot return to the USA without being arrested. Like it or not he is best described as a former American. This is the best edit of the info box I could come up with.
Bobby Fischer/Archive 3 | |
---|---|
Full name | Robert James Fischer |
Country | ![]() |
Title | Grandmaster |
World Champion | 1972-1975 (FIDE) |
Peak rating | 2785 (July 1972) |
Bobby Fischer/Archive 3 | |
---|---|
Full name | Robert James Fischer |
Country | ![]() |
Title | Grandmaster |
World Champion | 1972-1975 (FIDE) |
Peak rating | 2785 (July 1972) |
Geo8rge 16:16, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
Can someone perhaps stick in a photo of King Bobby on his Wikipedia page? (or instruct me how i can do this)- it's quite a big omission for such a notable figure. Thanks cogsyp Cogsyp 11:11, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
Since these discussion pages tend to only be read from the very bottom, I'll place this on here and let others decide if this sourced video material should appear anywhere in the article. I was not the interviewer for this so direct questions to the YouTube account who uploaded it and not myself.
ChessHistorian 22:31, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
ChessHistorian 20:44, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
I would like to call to the attention of the editors on here that two people are expressing their own personal opinion regarding a factual matter, and their opinion is incorrect regarding sourced material.
Oli Filth continues to say the sources of the material I most recently submitted is from Ed Trice who invented the game of Gothic Chess, when this is clearly not the case.
Quale continues to say the information submitted is a "rumor", implying that it is unsourced, when, in fact, it is not.
I direct the readership to first download this file, which is the audio from an online Interview that was on the chess.fm radio broadcast in October 1996:
http://www.GothicChess.com/radio.wma.zip
Decompress the file, and listen to it with Windows Media Player, or some other audio player that supports the stream format. The fact that you can download this file from a website owned by Ed Trice has no bearing on its true source, namely, the ICC chess.fm internet radio channel. They only archive their broadcasts for one calendar year, and Trice requested a copy of it in exchange for being on the program. Clearly that is the voice of Dan Heisman, who does the broadcast. His ICC handle is "PhillyTutor" and he can confirm that Trice was on the show to discuss the sourced material that is being cited here.
There is no way this was a "rumor" if so many people were involved.
Next, take a look at this YouTube video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54I8wqm2NeE
Note that it is from a company that supplies interviews with individuals from a variety of backgrounds. There is no link between Ed Trice, Gothic Chess, and the news agency that performed this interview. Their YouTube account is:
http://www.youtube.com/user/TheInterviewpoint
It is clear that this is 3rd party sourced material.
Also, take a look at the interview itself. Karpov's signature on the contract to play Fischer is right there. No rumor. Properly sourced.
This material belongs.
Clearly Trice was in Iceland, if you looked at the images that are linked from the blog:
http://www.gothicchess.com/images/iceland/alexis_ed_streetsign.jpg
And here is Grandmaster Fridrik Olafsson, longtime friend of Fischer's examining the new Gothic Chess pieces:
http://www.gothicchess.com/images/iceland/Fridrik_pieces.jpg
The plastic pieces are from the set Ed Trice sells online, the wooden pieces are designed by the House of Staunton:
http://www.houseofstaunton.com/gothicchess.html
Frank Camaratta, owner of the HouseOfStaunton.com, was on the Iceland trip to showcase his wooden pieces for Fischer's approval. Here is a photo showing Olafsson, Alexis Skye, Frank Camaratta, and Ed Trice all together in Iceland in a meeeting:
http://www.gothicchess.com/images/iceland/news_meeting.jpg
His phone number is listed on his website as (256) 858-8070 and their email address is sales@houseofstaunton.com
You can contact them to confirm that Frank was there, and the purpose was for Fischer to approve his Gothic Chess set for use in the match with Karpov.
There is plenty of 3rd party sourced material that supports the fact that the match was well underway, and Fischer was just being Fischer and backed out. This was not a rumor. This is fact. And Wikipedia was founded on the premise that factual, sourced material can be included in articles. —Preceding unsigned comment added by ChessHistorian ( talk • contribs) 18:30, 3 November 2007
What is proven that both of you are wrong. You change the definition of "source" to suit your own case-by-case instances and you don't apply the same standard to all articles.
There is 3rd party references that are proof:
1) The chess.fm broadcast - Last time I checked, Trice doesn't own ICC.
2) The trip to Iceland with Camaratta - Last time I checked, Trice didn't own HouseOfStaunton.com
3) The YouTube video - Last time I checked, Trice didn't own an online news reporting agency
These are all sources other than Trice.
There is no way your premises are correct when there is overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
And your point doesn't make sense: The 1975 Karpov-Fischer match was a "non event", so why is it reported and included in every Fischer bio I have seen?
The fact of the matter is: A match with Karpov was again underway, everything was in place, and Fischer backed out of the deal.
Plain and simple.
These facts are undeniable, and your attempts to dismiss them have failed. Many different people were a part of this. As a reporter by trade, I've seen the first hand documents. They exist. The online sources that have been furnished are more than adequate to include them as another indication of Fischer's personality: allowing a huge event to fizzle due to his own bizarre temperment.
ChessHistorian 20:38, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
ChessHistorian 00:35, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
Please folks; calm down, have a nice cup of WP:TEA. Obviously, there have been past problems with self-promotion around the topic of Gothic Chess, so of course there's going to be a heightened sensitivity and latent distrust for any editor who brings the topic up. It's probably not the end of the world to have a mere sentence on the attempt at creating this match in the article, even if it's purely the result of Trice's tireless self-promotion. We can frown upon that behavior, and editors who seem to be doing his bidding , but he managed to get this topic mentioned in the NY Post, and I'm willing to throw Trice a bone here. Whether User:ChessHistorian is actually a reporter who found the story interesting or a member of the Gothic Chess booster-club isn't particularly material, but let's try to WP:Assume good faith. -- Kendrick7 talk 17:33, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
This blog item is of interest, but doesn't yet merit inclusion in the article, IMO. Billbrock ( talk) 02:02, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
He may suffer from Asperger syndrome. Many sufferers show brilliant logical skills, in mathematics, computing or even in games like chess. The 'paranoia' he's suffering from could be part of Asperger's. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 143.117.23.221 ( talk) 10:48, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
I know this topic has been discussed in depth, particularly in the talk archives, but what is the exact evidence for the Jewish heritage of Fischer's mother? There are, from what I can tell, three sources in the main article. The first is merely an AP article that states it with no support. The second is Bobby Fischer's own declaration in a 1962 interview. The third is just a rehash of the second (so really not an independent source and should be deleted in my view). Given the fact that he later denied being Jewish (confirmed by the Encyclopedia Judaica), it seems that Fischer's own word on this matter is unreliable, and sources 2 and 3 are therefore also unreliable. Therefore the only evidence we have confirming his Jewish heritage is an unsourced AP article. Wouldn't the reply from EJ be considered stronger evidence? It appears that Fischer's Jewish heritage is far from certain, and, if not completely stricken from the article, should at least be accompanied by, "a fact that Fischer himself now vigorously denies." Does any anyone have real, independent, evidence that Fischer's mom is Jewish? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tubbyty ( talk • contribs) 17:24, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
Thank you very much for the information Billbrock. You gave me the idea to plug the information in ancestry.com and see what I could dig up. Using the family info from the wiki article, I found the 1930 United States Federal Census > Missouri > St Louis (Independent City) > St Louis (Districts 1-250) > District 189. On page 37 of 51, Jacob, his second wife Ethel, and their children Sylvia, Max and Regina are clearly listed. Regina's birthplace is listed as Switzerland. Included, under language (?), is "Jewish." I think this is the strongest independent evidence yet for Regina's, and therefore Bobby's, heritage. Interestingly enough, Jacob's occupation is listed as, "Salesman: Real Estate." Now, if only I can figure out how to reference this. Any ideas? Tubbyty ( talk) 03:11, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
Billbrock, are you meaning to say that the 1930 US Census is not considered a "reliable source"? Ok, I don't know if I agree with you, but if "numerous verifiable sources already exist" then let's get them in the article. Right now, as far as I can tell, there is not a single verifiable source cited in the article that supports the often-claimed matrilineal Jewish ancestry of RJF. Unless, of course, you are considering RJF's own word as verifiable even though he has contradicted himself on numerous occassions. Just because his statements are published doesn't mean that the truth of his statements are verifiable, but instead only the fact that he made the statements. In the absence of a single verifiable primary source, we should eliminate any claim of matrilineal Jewishness and merely note that on occassion RJF has both confirmed and denied Jewish heritage. Tubbyty ( talk) 02:52, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
Peter, I haven't seen any references updated yet. Any luck? Quale, I do not have access to a hardcopy of "Profile of a Prodigy" but I was able to find a preview on Google Books. I saw the page you mentioned, but as far as I can tell, the book is entirely unsourced. Is this true? If so, are publications without references/sources still considered reliable enough for Wikipedia standards? Either way, reference 2 in the article has to go. It is a radio excerpt that may or may not be Mr. Fischer and, as far as I can tell, does not mention his heritage in any way. It's still a little unclear to me what is considered a reliable reference on here, but I highly doubt unverified audio from "Radio Bomba" on Geocities constitutes one. Also, reference 3 is very weak as well. In the science world an unsourced news article is definitely not a primary source, are things a little more forgiving here? I don't mean to be a pain in the a** about all of this, but I just want to get it cleaned up. Doesn't matter to me one way or the other what the truth is, it just should be cited correctly. Thanks.
Tubbyty (
talk)
04:55, 23 December 2007 (UTC)
Do these quotations (all unsourced) belong in the article or in Wikiquote? I tend to think the latter. Billbrock ( talk) 21:49, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
Why can't we have a photo of Fischer as we was in his prime playing days, about age 27-29 (1970-72)? They have been put up and taken down. Surely there must be a photo available that doesn't violate copyrights. Bubba73 (talk), 03:30, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
It has been said according to the cnn homepage that bobby fischer is dead... www.cnn.com c_falco 11:46 GMT
In the Marca website it says he died in Iceland at 11:23 GMT. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.36.131.144 ( talk) 11:51, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
it is astonishing to consider that bobby fischer a chess prodigy and on-edge personality extrordinaire would die at the age of 64, the same number of squares on a chessboard, fischer who's whole entire life from the age of 10 revolved around the chessboard would live to the same number of chessboard squares and be limited in this life to that number, chess fans around the world are going to reverberate in their minds for some time to kind on this interesting seeming oddity —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.181.108.25 ( talk) 12:32, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
Someone should really add some of Fischer's best games to this article, all the other World Champions have some.
RIP Bobby SmokeyTheCat •TALK• 11:54, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
Fischer did not consider himself Jewish and his father was not Jewish as well. I do not consider it appropriate to put the tag "Jewsish Chess Players" on his article. For if Judaism is a religion, Fischer did definitely not belong to it. After all, what do you do with a Jew who becomes, say, a Christian or a Muslim? Still "Jewish etc."? Or what if someone has a Jewish mother and a muslim father? No, my friends, that's not the way to go. If someone is Jewish, he must CONSIDER himself jewish, but Fischer wasn't even circumcised. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.217.181.93 ( talk) 12:25, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
Again, this is wholly religious. Jewish law does not determine BIOLOGY. DNA does. DNA says that if your mom is black and your dad is probably black, then people who are so inclined can call you black, (since black is just a way to identify people who's great great great great great grandfathers had dna consistent with people who have historically lived in Africa. Same goes for Jewish. If your mom is Jewish and your dad is probably Jewish, then it doesn't matter if your a Christian or an agnostic...you're Jewish because your great great great great great great grandfather had dna consistent with people who lived in various Jewish communities. Let's just face it. The guy was Jewish. Also...antisemitism has nothing to do with religion. Antisemites hate agnostic Jews and Christian Jews because they hate Jews. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.35.204.153 ( talk) 20:25, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
Bobby Fischer is Dead. He died in his home in Iceland. Here is an Icelandic web coverage of it
http://mbl.is/mm/frettir/innlent/2008/01/18/bobby_fischer_latinn/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.148.70.130 ( talk) 13:54, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
Actually the article doesn't mention that he died at home just that he had spent some time in the hospital but the last two months at home. Both the Icelandic State Television and the webnewsservice Vísir say that he died at the hospital. I know that initially some Icelandic news services said he died at home but I believe that this was just a misunderstanding. Not that this is an important point but it would be better to get it right. [7]
We'll miss him and his crazy idiosyncrasies. Somebody write this section.--
Jondel (
talk)
14:37, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
It is highly improper, inconsiderate and rude for editors to continue to work over an "inuse" tag, which is placed in order to allow an edit to be completed. There is no justification for removing it and not allow other editors time to complete the work that is being done. Wildhartlivie ( talk) 15:02, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
If you become a naturalised Icelandic citizen in the ordinary way, you are required to take an Icelandic name. Did Fischer ever do so, since his citizenship was a specific act of the Althing which didn't mention a new name? Marnanel ( talk) 16:20, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
The article doesn't mention the child Fischer had during his years in the Philippines. Maybe it should? For some reason I thought it was a daughter, but Ljubojevic mentions a son here. Anybody know more? Skarioffszky ( talk) 20:45, 18 January 2008 (UTC) P.S.: The Atlantic claimed that "Fischer is now a parent: Justine gave birth to a baby girl in 2000. Fischer's fatherhood has until now been a well-kept secret, shared by his Philippine friends, who hope that this child will fill the void in Fischer's life that chess once occupied."
"Fischer, whose mother and probable biological father were both Jewish,"
Fischers mother was Jewish there is no doubt about that or well the little doubt that exists is minimum but to say that Fishcers biological father was probably Jewish or "Fischer, whose mother and probable biological father were both Jewish" that's just simply wrong. This theory that his father was infact Jewish is alright and maybe it's even correct but say that his father was probably Jewish is stating an opinion which is not backed by facts, it is most probable that Fischers father was his registered birthfather and nobody else so if one would like to use the written text in a changed correct form then it should say "Fischer, whose mother was Jewish and whose probable biological father was not,"...
I don't feel like rewriting that line to look right so I ask that someone else changes it, if not done soon however I'll simply delete it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.144.90.118 ( talk) 20:45, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
{{ protected}} Was it? If so how widely? Not in the Soviet Union surely? "pitting a single American against the Soviet system" should be deleted. Bias and stuff, innit? 86.42.111.78 ( talk) 22:43, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
Do you think the pictures in the article look silly? I know I've seen much better pictures of Fischer. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.59.85.233 ( talk) 23:52, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
It has been a long time policy of the editos of wikipedia to: 1. Stress to anoyance that Bobby Fischer was jewish, while Bobby Ficher himself did non want anybody to consider him jewish. 2. That he was Icelander instead of American, while he has been only 3 years from that nationality, and only as a result of political asilum offered by Iceland, after the politicaal persecution of the U.S. against Bobby Fisher. The resut is that editing of this page is blocked, under the excuse of vandalism. Wikipedia is becoming to know as a dictatorship of its core editors. Truly, no wonder. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.17.85.163 ( talk) 20:36, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
Please, can you explain, why you have removed the Category:Icelandic people from the article. The discription was that this category is controversal. For me, this breaks the NPOV. I am noting again, that the facts that he has got the Icelandic citizenship makes him an Icelandic. This is written in the introduction and in the infobox. It should be added in the categories. This doesn't mean that he was Icelandic chess player.-- Kiril Simeonovski ( talk) 14:01, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
Could you name me some Icelandic people?-- 194x144x90x118 ( talk) 08:36, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
Of course, Fischer would not be classified as famous Icelandic, because he has all done as American. And, the fact that there aren't enough notable and popular Icelandic people is not decisive to give away this category from the article. It' s more a technical addition. Mohandas Gandhi spent 21 year living in South Africa, but I bet that 50% of the contestants in this discussion knew it, and consider Gandhi as South African. He was also ranked 3rd greatest South African of all time. I think that the citizenship does not influence on the national consideration. It is also obvious that many people know about Bobby Fischer as one of the greates American chess players of all time, but don't know about his late years.-- Kiril Simeonovski ( talk) 00:01, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
Gandhi wasn't South African, although he spent 21 year in South Africa, but is regarded as South African, according to the South African votes for person of all times. For me it's enough for Bobby Fischer to say that he was in the group of "Icelandic people". Ok, then. The same question above for all:
"Can you tell me, then what is the definition for "American people". Are Americans people from the indigenous tribes, that populated today's territory of the USA, or Americans are English, French, Russian, German, Italian, and other immigrants?"
As American citizens become "American people", it is same with other nationalities. Don't make discrimination. -- Kiril Simeonovski ( talk) 11:21, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
In the US and Canada you are strongly encouraged to speak English (in Canada, either English or French) but whether you do, or not, if you are a citizen you are equal to any other citizen...period. In the US: American citizen=American people in Canada: Canadian citizen=Canadian people. BashBrannigan ( talk) 16:20, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
Would it not be more appropriate to list Fischer under 'Americans of Jewish descent' category? Fischer was not religiously or ethnically Jewish. He was part-Jewish by descent, so it seems incorrect to categorize him as a Jew, which implies that the person is religiously or ethnically Jewish. Karpouzi ( talk) 07:22, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
There are certain elements that are extremely prejudice and intolerant namely bigots they dislike the poor dead great man Fischer and wish to portray him in the most humiliating light possible so therefor they like to boldly state that Fischer's father was Jewish like they themselves were present when he was conceived and saw a circumcised dick entering his mother or something similarly idiotic. Well I say to you idiots FUCK you, that's right, Fischer was a Great man and a great guy and those that think negatively of him should simply be ashamed of themselves for they are the ones that are flawed and filthy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.144.74.14 ( talk) 01:28, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
And so it goes. When I met him in the 80's he was a complete prick, and it looks like little had changed as he got older. No surprise someone as foul-mouthed as the above would be calling him a "great man". It's hilarious how these types insist Jews are a "race" and then say that it's a lie that anti-semites had Jewish parents. Heads up, Fischer had a Jewish parent, and so did Adolf Hitler. By their own standards, they were both subhuman scum because of it. SoheiFox ( talk) 06:31, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
Firstly, a person is only considered Jewish is their mother is, irrespective of the father being one or not. While Fischer's mother was of Polish-Jewish descent, I have found no source confirming she was Jewish and ethnicity depends on what else was in the mix. Suffice to say he had Jewish ancestry but it's not all that relevant. Secondly, tose who claim the term antisemitic includes hatred of Arabs are deluded as those who hang on to the archaic meaning of decimated to mean reducing by one tenth. Sure it is true that the word semitic refers to both Arabs and Jews, as the the prefix Homo refers to men, but one wouldn't be stupid enought to confuse "homoophobic" as meaning fear or hatred of all men. Dainamo ( talk) 00:37, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E1%BD%8D%CE%BC%CE%BF-#.CE.9F, however semitic is quite clear.
Did I miss a mention of some of Bobby Fischer's sexist remarks in the article? Surely these are noteworthy...-- ZincBelief ( talk) 14:08, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
There is almost no support for the entire section of the article Bobby_Fischer#Involvement_with_the_Worldwide_Church_of_God. Apart from the first sentence which I put in, concerning the skepticism Fischer about religion that Fischer had previously expressed to Ralph Ginzburg, almost everything in the section is unsupported. Moreover, the only sources cited for anything are two Internet articles critical of Garner Ted Armstrong and the Church by the "Ambassador Report", whatever that is. I question whether these are reliable sources. If, as I have suggested on the WikiProject Chess talk page, we try to get this article to Good Article status, this section will be an obvious target. We should either furnish reliable sources for this section, or delete it. Krakatoa ( talk) 11:10, 7 November 2009 (UTC)