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how long does Cox remain manager of the Braves? Is it too early to go past tense on this article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.54.95.80 ( talk) 02:45, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
"Because of bad knees, Cox became the second in a string of four stopgap players between Clete Boyer and Graig Nettles." Is there a connection between these two facts? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.84.217.243 ( talk) 20:33, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
Should this be on here, because i dont remember it. I'm not say it is not true but some sources would be nice. Any comments? -- Dubguy2131 03:36, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
Bobby Cox is a tremendously successful manager, to list every time they won 90-100(!) games and lost in the World Series or LCS as a failure of a season and to give each season it's own section is pretty absurd to me. In general this article has way too many sections also. Anyone else's thoughts? Quadzilla99 07:50, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
I added plenty of citations to this article, and believe it's more than enough to warrant removal of the "does not adequately cite" tag. - Jason (UTC)
I personally am unbiased towards Bobby Cox, but honestly the Spousal Abuse section should not be in here. This is an encyclopedia. You would never find a section like that in Encarta..etc.
Im taking it out. If i am completely wrong on this one, revert to the old copy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.211.149.55 ( talk) 23:09, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
I deleted entirely the section on spousal abuse. The section had a reference to an NYT article from September, 1995 which did not say anything about there being a history of spouse abuse (which the section said was true) and that the charges had been dropped. Dropped charges are dropped charges. Mantuan ( talk) 19:43, 23 January 2008 (UTC) Mantuan
1) The fact that Bobby Cox was never punished for his domestic abuse has major factual and historical value. It is something that get frequently mentioned whenever a player gets suspended for domestic abuse.
2) The John Rocker incident has major historical value. When it happened, Bobby Cox's spousal abuse was part of the story. That is why it needs to be mentioned.
3) This has indeed put a black mark on his legacy. It continues to be written about 10 years later.
4) Personal bias should not come into this. I lived most of my life in Georgia. I have been a fan of the Braves since I watched Dale Murphy hit home runs as a kid. I went to the University of Georgia School of Law. I LIKE Bobby Cox and think he is a great manager. But nobody, no matter how great, should beat their wife, and if they do, they should have to face the consequences of that action. One of the main consequences of that is having it remembered as part of your legacy.
5) So I highly recommend that people who keep trying to minimize this issue and pare it down should find a better crusade than helping cover up wife battery.
Cambios ( talk) 02:46, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
The problems that they have described are based on a couple factors: A) They did not fully read the sources posted and did not see the relevant information to Bobby Cox. B) Their arguments seem very biased toward Mr. Cox (and quite possibly the Braves in general). Just because Mr. Cox bullied his wife into dropping charges does not mean that this incident is not referenced in popular culture today (run a google search for "Bobby cox arrest" or "bobby cox domestic violence" or "bobby cox wife"). Personal blogs are a valid source of "Popular culture" because, let's face it, people write them. When you can find many hundreds of blog posts referencing a person's legacy, saying that this incident is a part of his legacy is completely valid. —Preceding Leshrak comment added by Leshrak ( talk • contribs) 00:57, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
Because of the number of users here who are only here to defame Bobby Cox instead of improve the project, I have taken this matter elsewhere Dlong ( talk) 01:42, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
The section on Bobby Cox's spousal abuse is supported by multiple New York Times articles, multiple Atlanta Journal Constitution Articles, an article from the Village Voice, the Official Code of Georgia (OCGA), the Colorado Springs Gazette, the Northern Iowan, South Coast Today, and a variety of other sports media web sites and news outlets. The section in question is nothing but facts, explaining not only the incident itself but its long term impact on the sport. As recently as July 4, 2007, Atlanta Journal Constitution editorial writer, Mark Bradley, wrote about the issue.
I have spent an enormous amount of time working on this section to get all the details right and to fully explain the incident and its long term effects. I have meticulously worked to remove all opinionated sounding language so the article is as encyclopedic in nature as possible.
I believe there is some WP:SOAP going on because certain people are fans of the Atlanta Braves and do not want anything negative to be written about them. In particular, at least one of the people habitually reverting out the factual information is from Roswell, Georgia - a suburb of Atlanta. WP:BLP specifically states: "If an allegation or incident is notable, relevant, and well-documented by reliable published sources, it belongs in the article — even if it's negative and the subject dislikes all mention of it."
This incident is not going away, no matter how much Bobby Cox or his supporters want it to. It is a part of the permanent record, and there are an enormous amount of first, second, and third party sources that reference it. The entire Bobby Cox article has a total of 21 citations, and 11 of them are from the Spousal Abuse category. That more than meets any burden of citation needed for the section. There are 14 sentences in that section, and 11 citations. Lets get real - the section as written is truthful, accurate, and incredibly well researched. Wikipedia is not a battleground. It is time to let the facts stand. Cambios ( talk) 03:53, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
Really. Please stop removing these factual, cited edits and claiming them as uncited and/or cited from bad sources. There are reputable sources for each of the statements within this edit. Leshrak —Preceding comment was added at 11:31, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
These "factual, cited edits" can't be added when you, User:Leshrak, and User:Cambios are pushing your POV in the article. Kingjeff ( talk) 15:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
I've given up. Between Cambios' and Leshrak's anti-Bobby Cox fanaticism and the administrators' just not giving a shit whether or not WP:BLP is followed we have no chance of ever making this article worthwhile.
Dlong (
talk) 15:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
I've already done this. It came back unrelated. Kingjeff ( talk) 15:57, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:Okay, so here is what Cambios' edit would look like with full discloure:
(Note: I do not believe the following edit should be used, it's just to point out how misleading his actually is.)
In May of 1995, police were called to the home of Bobby and Pamela Cox in northwest Atlanta, Georgia. Pamela Cox told the police that her husband struck her. Bobby Cox was charged under Georgia's Domestic Violence Act [3] with simple battery. He was accused of punching his wife, Pamela, and pulling her hair. [4]In a court settlement, Pamela Cox was instructed by the judge to attend a battered women's program and Bobby Cox was told to complete violence counseling and an alcohol evaluation. [5]
This incident of domestic violence is a permanent part of Bobby Cox's legacy.When John Rocker was suspended by the MLB for making inflammatory remarks to the media, it the issue of Bobby Cox's wife battery was brought up by The Colorado Springs Gazette'. [6].It receives consistent mention in the sports media.In 2000, the incident was described as a black eye for the entire MLB.[7]. As recently as 2006 and 2007, BaseballSavvy.com has labeled him "wife beater" [8] and a student newspaper in Northern Iowa called him "nobody's role model" [9].Bobby Cox was never punished by Major League Baseball or the Atlanta Braves. This lack of punishment has been noted by South Coast Today as a lack of consistency in the way it deals with criminal behavior and spousal abuse. [10]. Further, Bobby Cox has refused to discuss the issue with the media and has never admitted his guilt to the public. As recently as July 4, 2007, Mark Bradley [11] of the Atlanta Journal Constitution noted "He refuses to discuss the 1995 incident that ended with him being arrested and charged with simple battery." [12]
It's undue weight that the only mention of his personal life is a charge that was dropped 18 years ago. I can see cutting it back on one sentence, and leaving the details to thecsources, as part of a whole section that metions his family. Note that the section was titled "personal life" in 2008, and changed some time later. - BilCat ( talk) 03:26, 5 October 2013 (UTC)
I would like to discuss this issue further with the editors of this page with a few to agreeing a way to add a fuller comment on the simple battery charge. I don't want to reinstate my edit without finding a reasonable way forward, but I do believe it is important the incident is given proper coverage. Benmoreassynt ( talk) 19:19, 21 October 2017 (UTC)
References
Does anybody else remember that game during the 2006 season, when Cox was ejected immediately after the manager from the opposing team had already been ejected on the same play? At the time, this was shown repeatedly on Sportscenter owing to its bizarre nature, and I don't think something like this ever happened in Major League Baseball before or since. I'd like to include mention of that incident in this article but I can't find any citations. Problem is, I can't remember which team it was that the Braves played that night, which opposing manager, or other relevant circumstances. Can anyone else help out? Thanks. -- Sean 2015 13:10, 24 October 2007 (UTC)sean_2015
The section on his Managerial career is fairly long. Does someone want to look at breaking it up? Rosuav ( talk) 09:16, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
This can be broken into 4 sub-sections. Atlanta; Toronto; Atlanta, again; Managerial stats. Kingjeff ( talk) 23:26, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
Under the image, it lists positions he's held. Wouldn't it be best to just list current position there and list former positions elsewhere? Enigma message Review 03:54, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
Someone must've messed with the External Links section or whatever, it needs fixing; I don't know how to do it. Good luck! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Yoshison ( talk • contribs) 00:21, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Bobby Cox/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
Somebody went in and gave this article about 50 sections and consistently referred to Cox as a failure. I needs a lot of work.
Quadzilla99 02:19, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
|
Last edited at 15:39, 17 January 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 09:56, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
Here is my proposal of adding managerial records. I have came to this WikiProject previously to this proposal and had trouble adding it. One comment stated "it's certainly better than the ones that go year-by-year." Some editors who frequently edited baseball articles have stated how excessive the tables were and this is why I proposed smaller tables. Kingjeff ( talk) 07:17, 9 August 2016 (UTC)
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This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Bobby Cox article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
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how long does Cox remain manager of the Braves? Is it too early to go past tense on this article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.54.95.80 ( talk) 02:45, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
"Because of bad knees, Cox became the second in a string of four stopgap players between Clete Boyer and Graig Nettles." Is there a connection between these two facts? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.84.217.243 ( talk) 20:33, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
Should this be on here, because i dont remember it. I'm not say it is not true but some sources would be nice. Any comments? -- Dubguy2131 03:36, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
Bobby Cox is a tremendously successful manager, to list every time they won 90-100(!) games and lost in the World Series or LCS as a failure of a season and to give each season it's own section is pretty absurd to me. In general this article has way too many sections also. Anyone else's thoughts? Quadzilla99 07:50, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
I added plenty of citations to this article, and believe it's more than enough to warrant removal of the "does not adequately cite" tag. - Jason (UTC)
I personally am unbiased towards Bobby Cox, but honestly the Spousal Abuse section should not be in here. This is an encyclopedia. You would never find a section like that in Encarta..etc.
Im taking it out. If i am completely wrong on this one, revert to the old copy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.211.149.55 ( talk) 23:09, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
I deleted entirely the section on spousal abuse. The section had a reference to an NYT article from September, 1995 which did not say anything about there being a history of spouse abuse (which the section said was true) and that the charges had been dropped. Dropped charges are dropped charges. Mantuan ( talk) 19:43, 23 January 2008 (UTC) Mantuan
1) The fact that Bobby Cox was never punished for his domestic abuse has major factual and historical value. It is something that get frequently mentioned whenever a player gets suspended for domestic abuse.
2) The John Rocker incident has major historical value. When it happened, Bobby Cox's spousal abuse was part of the story. That is why it needs to be mentioned.
3) This has indeed put a black mark on his legacy. It continues to be written about 10 years later.
4) Personal bias should not come into this. I lived most of my life in Georgia. I have been a fan of the Braves since I watched Dale Murphy hit home runs as a kid. I went to the University of Georgia School of Law. I LIKE Bobby Cox and think he is a great manager. But nobody, no matter how great, should beat their wife, and if they do, they should have to face the consequences of that action. One of the main consequences of that is having it remembered as part of your legacy.
5) So I highly recommend that people who keep trying to minimize this issue and pare it down should find a better crusade than helping cover up wife battery.
Cambios ( talk) 02:46, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
The problems that they have described are based on a couple factors: A) They did not fully read the sources posted and did not see the relevant information to Bobby Cox. B) Their arguments seem very biased toward Mr. Cox (and quite possibly the Braves in general). Just because Mr. Cox bullied his wife into dropping charges does not mean that this incident is not referenced in popular culture today (run a google search for "Bobby cox arrest" or "bobby cox domestic violence" or "bobby cox wife"). Personal blogs are a valid source of "Popular culture" because, let's face it, people write them. When you can find many hundreds of blog posts referencing a person's legacy, saying that this incident is a part of his legacy is completely valid. —Preceding Leshrak comment added by Leshrak ( talk • contribs) 00:57, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
Because of the number of users here who are only here to defame Bobby Cox instead of improve the project, I have taken this matter elsewhere Dlong ( talk) 01:42, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
The section on Bobby Cox's spousal abuse is supported by multiple New York Times articles, multiple Atlanta Journal Constitution Articles, an article from the Village Voice, the Official Code of Georgia (OCGA), the Colorado Springs Gazette, the Northern Iowan, South Coast Today, and a variety of other sports media web sites and news outlets. The section in question is nothing but facts, explaining not only the incident itself but its long term impact on the sport. As recently as July 4, 2007, Atlanta Journal Constitution editorial writer, Mark Bradley, wrote about the issue.
I have spent an enormous amount of time working on this section to get all the details right and to fully explain the incident and its long term effects. I have meticulously worked to remove all opinionated sounding language so the article is as encyclopedic in nature as possible.
I believe there is some WP:SOAP going on because certain people are fans of the Atlanta Braves and do not want anything negative to be written about them. In particular, at least one of the people habitually reverting out the factual information is from Roswell, Georgia - a suburb of Atlanta. WP:BLP specifically states: "If an allegation or incident is notable, relevant, and well-documented by reliable published sources, it belongs in the article — even if it's negative and the subject dislikes all mention of it."
This incident is not going away, no matter how much Bobby Cox or his supporters want it to. It is a part of the permanent record, and there are an enormous amount of first, second, and third party sources that reference it. The entire Bobby Cox article has a total of 21 citations, and 11 of them are from the Spousal Abuse category. That more than meets any burden of citation needed for the section. There are 14 sentences in that section, and 11 citations. Lets get real - the section as written is truthful, accurate, and incredibly well researched. Wikipedia is not a battleground. It is time to let the facts stand. Cambios ( talk) 03:53, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
Really. Please stop removing these factual, cited edits and claiming them as uncited and/or cited from bad sources. There are reputable sources for each of the statements within this edit. Leshrak —Preceding comment was added at 11:31, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
These "factual, cited edits" can't be added when you, User:Leshrak, and User:Cambios are pushing your POV in the article. Kingjeff ( talk) 15:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
I've given up. Between Cambios' and Leshrak's anti-Bobby Cox fanaticism and the administrators' just not giving a shit whether or not WP:BLP is followed we have no chance of ever making this article worthwhile.
Dlong (
talk) 15:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
I've already done this. It came back unrelated. Kingjeff ( talk) 15:57, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:Okay, so here is what Cambios' edit would look like with full discloure:
(Note: I do not believe the following edit should be used, it's just to point out how misleading his actually is.)
In May of 1995, police were called to the home of Bobby and Pamela Cox in northwest Atlanta, Georgia. Pamela Cox told the police that her husband struck her. Bobby Cox was charged under Georgia's Domestic Violence Act [3] with simple battery. He was accused of punching his wife, Pamela, and pulling her hair. [4]In a court settlement, Pamela Cox was instructed by the judge to attend a battered women's program and Bobby Cox was told to complete violence counseling and an alcohol evaluation. [5]
This incident of domestic violence is a permanent part of Bobby Cox's legacy.When John Rocker was suspended by the MLB for making inflammatory remarks to the media, it the issue of Bobby Cox's wife battery was brought up by The Colorado Springs Gazette'. [6].It receives consistent mention in the sports media.In 2000, the incident was described as a black eye for the entire MLB.[7]. As recently as 2006 and 2007, BaseballSavvy.com has labeled him "wife beater" [8] and a student newspaper in Northern Iowa called him "nobody's role model" [9].Bobby Cox was never punished by Major League Baseball or the Atlanta Braves. This lack of punishment has been noted by South Coast Today as a lack of consistency in the way it deals with criminal behavior and spousal abuse. [10]. Further, Bobby Cox has refused to discuss the issue with the media and has never admitted his guilt to the public. As recently as July 4, 2007, Mark Bradley [11] of the Atlanta Journal Constitution noted "He refuses to discuss the 1995 incident that ended with him being arrested and charged with simple battery." [12]
It's undue weight that the only mention of his personal life is a charge that was dropped 18 years ago. I can see cutting it back on one sentence, and leaving the details to thecsources, as part of a whole section that metions his family. Note that the section was titled "personal life" in 2008, and changed some time later. - BilCat ( talk) 03:26, 5 October 2013 (UTC)
I would like to discuss this issue further with the editors of this page with a few to agreeing a way to add a fuller comment on the simple battery charge. I don't want to reinstate my edit without finding a reasonable way forward, but I do believe it is important the incident is given proper coverage. Benmoreassynt ( talk) 19:19, 21 October 2017 (UTC)
References
Does anybody else remember that game during the 2006 season, when Cox was ejected immediately after the manager from the opposing team had already been ejected on the same play? At the time, this was shown repeatedly on Sportscenter owing to its bizarre nature, and I don't think something like this ever happened in Major League Baseball before or since. I'd like to include mention of that incident in this article but I can't find any citations. Problem is, I can't remember which team it was that the Braves played that night, which opposing manager, or other relevant circumstances. Can anyone else help out? Thanks. -- Sean 2015 13:10, 24 October 2007 (UTC)sean_2015
The section on his Managerial career is fairly long. Does someone want to look at breaking it up? Rosuav ( talk) 09:16, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
This can be broken into 4 sub-sections. Atlanta; Toronto; Atlanta, again; Managerial stats. Kingjeff ( talk) 23:26, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
Under the image, it lists positions he's held. Wouldn't it be best to just list current position there and list former positions elsewhere? Enigma message Review 03:54, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
Someone must've messed with the External Links section or whatever, it needs fixing; I don't know how to do it. Good luck! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Yoshison ( talk • contribs) 00:21, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Bobby Cox/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
Somebody went in and gave this article about 50 sections and consistently referred to Cox as a failure. I needs a lot of work.
Quadzilla99 02:19, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
|
Last edited at 15:39, 17 January 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 09:56, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
Here is my proposal of adding managerial records. I have came to this WikiProject previously to this proposal and had trouble adding it. One comment stated "it's certainly better than the ones that go year-by-year." Some editors who frequently edited baseball articles have stated how excessive the tables were and this is why I proposed smaller tables. Kingjeff ( talk) 07:17, 9 August 2016 (UTC)
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