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My recollection is that Rae promised to 'keep', not start a 'common pause day' during the election. After the election he switched positions and introduced Sunday shopping. The way this part is written seems a bit too biased in his favour. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.40.218.20 ( talk) 00:43, 9 May 2011 (UTC)
I'm not sure how I formally go about recommending this, but I think it would make sense to include a section that lists Bob Rae's 4 published books: From Protest to Power: Personal Reflections on a Life in Politics; The Three Questions; Canada in the Balance; Exporting Democracy: The Risks and Rewards of Pursuing a Good Idea
I'm at the OUCC conference at Guelph University today and Bob Rae just finished speaking. He mentioned that he was recently introduced as a graduate of Harvard high school in Toronto – which apparently isn’t true. The person doing the introduction had apparently attributed it to Wikipedia. Mr. Rae then went on to say that when he read the article it was way off, but maybe he’d edit it and credit himself with inventing the steam egine. Most of his comments were in jest, but here it is for the record.
Later he was asked what he did about the article and answered that his wife was kind enough to edit it and correct it for him.
-- Matt Clare Mr. Rae twice invoked "the rabbi" in his convention speech. (I am not sure if caps are required in this case.) The first reference was that the rabbi is reported as having said that "If I am not for me then who will be for me?" The second was to the effect that if I am for me, others will be. Rae has been touted as Ontario's first Jewish Premier. Could he have been referring to The Rabbi Yeshua Ben Joseph the Divine Rabbi? If not which rabbi. Moreover, in an overwhelmingly Judaism Obervant family (I was a classmate of Arlene Perley during the Bathurst Heights Collegiate days), how can he be described as Anglican? The issue is not insignificant: I think Mr. Rae displays duality if not bipolarity as to where he stands on the Judeo-Christian continuum. Is it relevant? May be not, but it should be said. To be a Jew is to subscribe to certain ethical and philosophical value that are not shared by all Canadians, even when watered down by so-called secularism. Having said all that, he is still a "good man" and of the available choices the most electable.
Michael Spensieri, J.D., LL.M. Mpp Ret Member: Ontario Association of Former Parliamentarians
I'm pretty sure Bob Rae was born in Ottawa. Two different sources tell me so. If it really is Toronto, then I'm sorry. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Timc ( talk • contribs) 02:27, 8 October 2003 (UTC)
The article cites Rae criticising the federal government for interest rate policy when the federal gov't in Canada does not set interest rates, rather the Bank of Canada sets the interest rates and the BoC is not run by parliament nor the PMO. Although "If the Minister of Finance disagrees with the Bank's policies, he or she has the right to issue a public directive to the Governor. Such a directive has never been issued." (see latter link) The Bank of Canada was created by Prime Minister Richard Bennett in the 1930's transferring the ability to set interest rates from the federal gov't to the new created crown corporation. DWiatzka ( talk) 15:19, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
The Zero Inflation policy was openly supported by Finance Minister Michael Wilson, by Brian Mulroney, and John Crow, governor of the Bank of Canada, was Mulroney's appointee. The zero inflation strategy of high interest rates was indeed the policy of the federal government under Brian Mulroney's leadership. To say that the Bank is independent does not change this fact. The federal government endorsed Crow's draconian policies openly and that government put Crow there in the first place presumably in the knowledge that he was going to do such things. Rae legitimately criticised the federal leadership for the economic damage it was knowingly doing.
For a zero inflation policy through high interest rates to be effective, a large increase of unemployment must happen by definition. That is the proof that it's working - the high unemployment. If the rates are insufficiently high to create more bankruptcies and unemployment, it will increase inflation as it increases the price of money. Only by choking off demand through deliberately-engineered unemployment can zero inflation be achieved through a high interest rate policy.
What Rae faced was a federal government determined to cause unemployment and there was nothing he could do to stop it. High unemployment diminished the tax base and increased relief payments, and if this didn't do enough to increase the deficit, the higher interest rates also increased the price of the debts - the high deficits were inevitable. Rae deserved no blame, and Mulroney deserved all the blame, end of discussion. Procrustes the clown ( talk) 20:01, 29 July 2010 (UTC)
The new picture is nicer but it's also taken about a decade after Rae was premier. We should probably use a picture that was taken while he was Premier or at least when he looked like he did when he was Premier. AndyL 05:41, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Shouldn't this be retitled "Rae, Bob" so it is consistent with other personal names?
gcapp1959
They were roommates at U of T? This an interesting factoid which I haven't heard before. Can anyone back it up? -- Saforrest 20:26, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
Should it really be Liberal Party for his political affiliation? The box cites his political affiliation at the time of the important event (his Premiership of Ontario). Homagetocatalonia 23:26, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
How could he have been born in 1948 and been on the first plane to land in liberated France in 1945?
Please vote in favour of keeping his image here... Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2006 November 30 -- Zanimum 02:15, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
i'd like to flag that someone with the username gerardkennedy is editing this page (see history) but since the edits occurred during the liberal leadership convention it is likely that it is one of his campaign managers. since kennedy was running against rae, and threw his support behind dion, i think there is a large conflict of interest in having him edit this page. Katerg 20:37, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
Regarding the dispute between User: Kibomt and User: CJCurrie, while the section may not be perfectly balanced yet, the onus is on CJCurrie to find balancing material rather than completely suppressing it. GoldDragon 18:04, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
Rae's actions as premier in cutting enrollment to medical schools is clearly relevant to a discussion of health care policy under his tenure. Two sources are provided - one from a Queen's Journal quoting a reputable, knowledgeable observer, and another commentary from a media source. Since when did Sunmedia not become a valid source in Wikipedia? Can you please point me to the WP that says that? As for the other material deleted by CJCurrie relating to the Air India Inquiry, it is sourced from the CBC and the Toronto Star. This point is even more so because CJCurrie seeks to restore unsourced promotional material about Rae's purported international activities. CJCurrie seems to be under the misbelief that neutrality requires us to omit the failings of famous men. If Mr. Rae's supposed accomplishments can be mentioned so too must his failures, otherwise Wikipedia will become an encyclopedia of spam, not of relevant knowledge. -- Kibomt 13:52, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
I'm fine with including critical information about Rae, including health policy but I have some problems with the current section. First, the Queen's source actually does not say what the nine words that it supports allege. It says Rae "capped" enrollment, the article says "cut". It also says that Ontario's position then was consistent with other provinces, which seems to be the case. I don't think that it is acceptable to use Weston's sarcastic piece to support the second assertion. If Rae's government is indeed so responsible for such a shortage of doctors that it endures today, it shouldn't be hard to find a more reasonable source. -- JGGardiner 18:52, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
This is the text that CJCurrie deleted. The sources for the cut s more than just the Queen's Journal and the Sun media, it is also Mr. Rae's own words from his Torstar interview. This is his legacy, and to write an article about his health policy without mentioning this would just make Wikipedia more absurd than it increasingly is being recognized for being:
"As Premier, Rae placed cut enrollment into medical schools, [1] creating a continuing shortage of doctors in Ontario and adding to the wait-times and treatment delays for patients to access health care in Ontario. [2] Rae's Government actually paid the University of Toronto $10 million a year not to produce as many doctors. [3] Interviewed by the Toronto Star about this period, in 2006, Rae stated that: "Take the doctor situation. You are right that we reduced enrolment....We (governments) didn't take into account the number of people who would leave (the health field) or who would do other things and, second, that the nature of the practice might change. We did not take into account that the number of women coming into the workforce would change, and that changed the pattern of practice: People taking leaves, people taking maternity leaves, people working different hours and so on." [4]" -- Kibomt 04:13, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
00:13, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
"Today, his legacy endures with a physician shortage that saves taxpayers a fortune by not having to treat millions of sick Canadians who can't find a family doctor"
"'The governments in Canada reduced the number of medical students eight years ago so that the number leaving has become greater than the number entering [with the result that] Canada is in a net loss position'".
With all due respect to the "not on-line hagiographers" here, the position of JGGardiner is absurd. There is absolutely no reason to substantiate the magnitude of Rae's cuts in enrollment here. The relevant facts from the point of view of his history are: (a) he cut enrollment (Torstar); (b) he admitted cutting enrollment (Torstar); (c) some believe those cuts had lasting effects on health care access (Queen's Journal, Weston and Goldstein articles and implicit admission in response to Torstar question). If you want to add (d) that some others believe the cuts were not substantial, then PROVIDE A SOURCE; and / or (e) that some others believe the effects of the cuts were not sgnificant then PROVIDE A SOURCE. It really is that simple, if this is a biography of a living person, not a saint. -- Kibomt 13:34, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
We are indeed going in circles, but let's try to work with what you suggested. We don't need to source the number of cuts unless you can provide a source for that. We can use the Torstar quote to document the cuts, and frankly I can't see how a quote from Rae himself in response to a direct question about cuts could not be an adequate source. As for the opinions about the effects, we can source (Goldstein, Weston and Queen's Journal. So the paragraph would look something like this: "In 1992, Rae's gov't cut positions from the province's medical schools during his term in office.[Torstar cite] The policy was intended to cut health care costs as it was believed there were too many physicians in the province. Some commentators believe that these cuts were short-sighted and lead to a continuting shortage of doctors in Ontario.[Goldstein, Weston and Queen's Journal cites]" The notion that these three sources are not a sufficient source for criticism of a Premier's policy - even a Premier of Ontario - is just plain laughable. Feel free to provide a source for the quantity of the cuts, if you can find one without doing original research. -- Kibomt 17:32, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
The added text about Bartleman's testimony has been twisted to make it look like Bob Rae missed something in his investigation. Rae's recommendation for an inquiry actually led to Bartleman's revelation. The new text makes it look like Rae's participation in the affair was somehow inferior. Atrian 23:15, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
Wow, that's incredible. He did not interview a key witness, and you don't think that reflects on his judgement? Is that your idea of balance? He gets credit for recommending the inquiry, but not having interviewed a key player at the time was odd, as the references indicate. -- Kibomt 04:15, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
I agree with Atrian, at least on the basis of what I've seen. I'm not sure, and the source doesn't suggest, that it was some sort of omission on Rae's part or that he was aware that Bartleman had such information. Maybe that information exists but I'd want to see it before including it here. And I would note to Kibomt that this isn't a character study. We don't have to include information simply because it reflects on the subject's judgement. -- JGGardiner 07:38, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
Here is the text that CJCurrie proposes to suppress:
"On April 26, 2005, he was appointed to advise Deputy Prime Minister Anne McLellan on whether or not there should be a government inquiry into the 1985 Air India disaster. On November 23, 2005, Rae recommended further inquiry into the investigation and prosecution. [1] In testimony before the Commission of Inquiry led by Justice John C. Major, former Ontario Lieutenant-Governor, James K. Bartleman indicated that in his prior position as the former head of intelligence for Foreign Affairs Canada he had received information about a specific threat to Air India days before Flight 182 blew up in 1985. [2] Bob Rae later admitted that he never bothered to interview Bartleman, the former head of intelligence for Foreign Affairs Canada while investigating the Air India bombing. [3]"
That is not about charachter, but competence. I have no problem with deleting the reference to the Air Inda entirely. However, if it is retained for completeness, the sourced material about the nature of his investigation should also be included. The whole paragraph is aimed at establishing his weighty chores in his post-premiership. That's fair, but if Wikpedia is about biography, not hagiography, the reference must be complete and balanced. -- Kibomt 11:19, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
References
{{ editprotected}} When article duscusses the No-confidence motion attached to the budget, "rider" should link wiki's article on rider bills. Rotovia 00:22, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
{{ editprotected}}
Category:Ontario premiers needs to be replaced with Category:Premiers of Ontario, due to a speedy rename. Thanks. Hersfold ( t/ a/ c) 06:16, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
Jbacu1985 ( talk) 23:56, 6 March 2008 (UTC) CJ Currie - can you discuss your objections here without simply deleting what you personally disagree with.
Jbacu1985 ( talk) 17:06, 8 March 2008 (UTC) it was disastrous - lost talent, lost subscribers and the real possibility that the whole Orchestra wopuld cease to exist - you can't get much more disastrous than that for a symphony orchestra - an opinion I can tell you is shared by most subscribers. The source of the quote is Canada'a most middle of the road newspaper. If you read the article and cheched the calculations against the Stat Can and Ontarion M/F statistics, you'll see that it is completely accurate.
Rae's first stint as an MP should be included in the infobox. Reggie Perrin ( talk) 04:16, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
First and only, at least this moment. He has not yet assumed office, as the infobox shows. Nor has he succeeded Bill Graham as that article says nor does he represent Toronto Centre as that article says. People have been elected before and died without being sworn into office. Elections have been overturned, parliaments dissolved, etc. -- JGGardiner ( talk) 04:49, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
This should be updated. I would do it, but not permitted. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.68.85.224 ( talk) 18:23, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
The reference to Bob Rae as an Anglican should be removed. From what I have read he considers himself ethnically Jewish, but is an atheist. He is not a member of any Anglican Church, has not raised his children in this religion, and has never described himself as one. Factcorrect12 ( talk) 22:23, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
The references to Bob Rae's religion are completely false and rely on unreliable and incorrect information. Rae did not "explore his own Jewish culture," or date Jewish girls exclusively, nor is he a current member of Holy Blossom Temple. The inclusion of this paragraph (which I've copied below) is completely irrelevant and is based on false information and should be removed. I have tried to remove this section of the biography several times because it is false but someone keeps putting it back in clearly with some sort of strange agenda.
(Rae learned of his family's Jewish origins in 1968. The revelation had a strong impact on him, he sought to explore his Jewish culture, dated Jewish girls exclusively and ultimately married a Jewish woman.[9] Upon his marriage to Arlene Perly Rae, Rae agreed to raise his children in his wife's Jewish faith.[10] Rae is a member of Holy Blossom Temple, a Reform Jewish congregation in Toronto.[11]) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.117.101.144 ( talk) 23:43, 11 December 2014 (UTC)
The text about who Rae is not related to should be deleted unless there is some really compelling reason to leave it in. Modal Jig ( talk) 15:25, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
This stuff, to me, seems not to be about Rae per se but about his government. I do not think it belongs here so much as it might in an article about the government itself. Anyway, please weigh in. Dbrodbeck ( talk) 02:26, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
With Rae announcing today that he is stepping down, some contributors will be tempted to revise the lead paragraph to describe him as a former MP. Please do not do so until the news media confirms that his resignation is effective. As best as I can understand from the Rae/Trudeau news conference, Rae has not yet announced when his resignation becomes effective (according to CBC a few minutes ago - "He didn't say when his resignation would be effective."). Even though he is announcing his resignation today, it might or might not be effective today. He could possibly, for example, still be the MP for Toronto Centre for another few days or weeks.
Right now, the article says that Rae has announced he is stepping down. Until we have a reliable source saying the he is no longer MP, we cannot go on to describe him as the former MP. Thanks. -- Skeezix1000 ( talk) 15:39, 19 June 2013 (UTC)
The wait continues. Skeezix1000 ( talk) 19:10, 10 July 2013 (UTC)
It appears that his departure date is July 31. Skeezix1000 ( talk) 13:14, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
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"Bob Rae was in power for 1650 days, the longest term unique to an Ontario premier since the Second World War."
This sentence was in the Premiership section. I am interpreting this as he was the longest serving premier of Ontario since WW2, but that would be incorrect as Bill Davis was longer served and after WW2. Is this sentence supposed to be read a different way? If that is true, can it be changed so as to be read properly? Imperatorhobbes ( talk) 23:58, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
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My recollection is that Rae promised to 'keep', not start a 'common pause day' during the election. After the election he switched positions and introduced Sunday shopping. The way this part is written seems a bit too biased in his favour. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.40.218.20 ( talk) 00:43, 9 May 2011 (UTC)
I'm not sure how I formally go about recommending this, but I think it would make sense to include a section that lists Bob Rae's 4 published books: From Protest to Power: Personal Reflections on a Life in Politics; The Three Questions; Canada in the Balance; Exporting Democracy: The Risks and Rewards of Pursuing a Good Idea
I'm at the OUCC conference at Guelph University today and Bob Rae just finished speaking. He mentioned that he was recently introduced as a graduate of Harvard high school in Toronto – which apparently isn’t true. The person doing the introduction had apparently attributed it to Wikipedia. Mr. Rae then went on to say that when he read the article it was way off, but maybe he’d edit it and credit himself with inventing the steam egine. Most of his comments were in jest, but here it is for the record.
Later he was asked what he did about the article and answered that his wife was kind enough to edit it and correct it for him.
-- Matt Clare Mr. Rae twice invoked "the rabbi" in his convention speech. (I am not sure if caps are required in this case.) The first reference was that the rabbi is reported as having said that "If I am not for me then who will be for me?" The second was to the effect that if I am for me, others will be. Rae has been touted as Ontario's first Jewish Premier. Could he have been referring to The Rabbi Yeshua Ben Joseph the Divine Rabbi? If not which rabbi. Moreover, in an overwhelmingly Judaism Obervant family (I was a classmate of Arlene Perley during the Bathurst Heights Collegiate days), how can he be described as Anglican? The issue is not insignificant: I think Mr. Rae displays duality if not bipolarity as to where he stands on the Judeo-Christian continuum. Is it relevant? May be not, but it should be said. To be a Jew is to subscribe to certain ethical and philosophical value that are not shared by all Canadians, even when watered down by so-called secularism. Having said all that, he is still a "good man" and of the available choices the most electable.
Michael Spensieri, J.D., LL.M. Mpp Ret Member: Ontario Association of Former Parliamentarians
I'm pretty sure Bob Rae was born in Ottawa. Two different sources tell me so. If it really is Toronto, then I'm sorry. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Timc ( talk • contribs) 02:27, 8 October 2003 (UTC)
The article cites Rae criticising the federal government for interest rate policy when the federal gov't in Canada does not set interest rates, rather the Bank of Canada sets the interest rates and the BoC is not run by parliament nor the PMO. Although "If the Minister of Finance disagrees with the Bank's policies, he or she has the right to issue a public directive to the Governor. Such a directive has never been issued." (see latter link) The Bank of Canada was created by Prime Minister Richard Bennett in the 1930's transferring the ability to set interest rates from the federal gov't to the new created crown corporation. DWiatzka ( talk) 15:19, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
The Zero Inflation policy was openly supported by Finance Minister Michael Wilson, by Brian Mulroney, and John Crow, governor of the Bank of Canada, was Mulroney's appointee. The zero inflation strategy of high interest rates was indeed the policy of the federal government under Brian Mulroney's leadership. To say that the Bank is independent does not change this fact. The federal government endorsed Crow's draconian policies openly and that government put Crow there in the first place presumably in the knowledge that he was going to do such things. Rae legitimately criticised the federal leadership for the economic damage it was knowingly doing.
For a zero inflation policy through high interest rates to be effective, a large increase of unemployment must happen by definition. That is the proof that it's working - the high unemployment. If the rates are insufficiently high to create more bankruptcies and unemployment, it will increase inflation as it increases the price of money. Only by choking off demand through deliberately-engineered unemployment can zero inflation be achieved through a high interest rate policy.
What Rae faced was a federal government determined to cause unemployment and there was nothing he could do to stop it. High unemployment diminished the tax base and increased relief payments, and if this didn't do enough to increase the deficit, the higher interest rates also increased the price of the debts - the high deficits were inevitable. Rae deserved no blame, and Mulroney deserved all the blame, end of discussion. Procrustes the clown ( talk) 20:01, 29 July 2010 (UTC)
The new picture is nicer but it's also taken about a decade after Rae was premier. We should probably use a picture that was taken while he was Premier or at least when he looked like he did when he was Premier. AndyL 05:41, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Shouldn't this be retitled "Rae, Bob" so it is consistent with other personal names?
gcapp1959
They were roommates at U of T? This an interesting factoid which I haven't heard before. Can anyone back it up? -- Saforrest 20:26, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
Should it really be Liberal Party for his political affiliation? The box cites his political affiliation at the time of the important event (his Premiership of Ontario). Homagetocatalonia 23:26, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
How could he have been born in 1948 and been on the first plane to land in liberated France in 1945?
Please vote in favour of keeping his image here... Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2006 November 30 -- Zanimum 02:15, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
i'd like to flag that someone with the username gerardkennedy is editing this page (see history) but since the edits occurred during the liberal leadership convention it is likely that it is one of his campaign managers. since kennedy was running against rae, and threw his support behind dion, i think there is a large conflict of interest in having him edit this page. Katerg 20:37, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
Regarding the dispute between User: Kibomt and User: CJCurrie, while the section may not be perfectly balanced yet, the onus is on CJCurrie to find balancing material rather than completely suppressing it. GoldDragon 18:04, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
Rae's actions as premier in cutting enrollment to medical schools is clearly relevant to a discussion of health care policy under his tenure. Two sources are provided - one from a Queen's Journal quoting a reputable, knowledgeable observer, and another commentary from a media source. Since when did Sunmedia not become a valid source in Wikipedia? Can you please point me to the WP that says that? As for the other material deleted by CJCurrie relating to the Air India Inquiry, it is sourced from the CBC and the Toronto Star. This point is even more so because CJCurrie seeks to restore unsourced promotional material about Rae's purported international activities. CJCurrie seems to be under the misbelief that neutrality requires us to omit the failings of famous men. If Mr. Rae's supposed accomplishments can be mentioned so too must his failures, otherwise Wikipedia will become an encyclopedia of spam, not of relevant knowledge. -- Kibomt 13:52, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
I'm fine with including critical information about Rae, including health policy but I have some problems with the current section. First, the Queen's source actually does not say what the nine words that it supports allege. It says Rae "capped" enrollment, the article says "cut". It also says that Ontario's position then was consistent with other provinces, which seems to be the case. I don't think that it is acceptable to use Weston's sarcastic piece to support the second assertion. If Rae's government is indeed so responsible for such a shortage of doctors that it endures today, it shouldn't be hard to find a more reasonable source. -- JGGardiner 18:52, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
This is the text that CJCurrie deleted. The sources for the cut s more than just the Queen's Journal and the Sun media, it is also Mr. Rae's own words from his Torstar interview. This is his legacy, and to write an article about his health policy without mentioning this would just make Wikipedia more absurd than it increasingly is being recognized for being:
"As Premier, Rae placed cut enrollment into medical schools, [1] creating a continuing shortage of doctors in Ontario and adding to the wait-times and treatment delays for patients to access health care in Ontario. [2] Rae's Government actually paid the University of Toronto $10 million a year not to produce as many doctors. [3] Interviewed by the Toronto Star about this period, in 2006, Rae stated that: "Take the doctor situation. You are right that we reduced enrolment....We (governments) didn't take into account the number of people who would leave (the health field) or who would do other things and, second, that the nature of the practice might change. We did not take into account that the number of women coming into the workforce would change, and that changed the pattern of practice: People taking leaves, people taking maternity leaves, people working different hours and so on." [4]" -- Kibomt 04:13, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
00:13, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
"Today, his legacy endures with a physician shortage that saves taxpayers a fortune by not having to treat millions of sick Canadians who can't find a family doctor"
"'The governments in Canada reduced the number of medical students eight years ago so that the number leaving has become greater than the number entering [with the result that] Canada is in a net loss position'".
With all due respect to the "not on-line hagiographers" here, the position of JGGardiner is absurd. There is absolutely no reason to substantiate the magnitude of Rae's cuts in enrollment here. The relevant facts from the point of view of his history are: (a) he cut enrollment (Torstar); (b) he admitted cutting enrollment (Torstar); (c) some believe those cuts had lasting effects on health care access (Queen's Journal, Weston and Goldstein articles and implicit admission in response to Torstar question). If you want to add (d) that some others believe the cuts were not substantial, then PROVIDE A SOURCE; and / or (e) that some others believe the effects of the cuts were not sgnificant then PROVIDE A SOURCE. It really is that simple, if this is a biography of a living person, not a saint. -- Kibomt 13:34, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
We are indeed going in circles, but let's try to work with what you suggested. We don't need to source the number of cuts unless you can provide a source for that. We can use the Torstar quote to document the cuts, and frankly I can't see how a quote from Rae himself in response to a direct question about cuts could not be an adequate source. As for the opinions about the effects, we can source (Goldstein, Weston and Queen's Journal. So the paragraph would look something like this: "In 1992, Rae's gov't cut positions from the province's medical schools during his term in office.[Torstar cite] The policy was intended to cut health care costs as it was believed there were too many physicians in the province. Some commentators believe that these cuts were short-sighted and lead to a continuting shortage of doctors in Ontario.[Goldstein, Weston and Queen's Journal cites]" The notion that these three sources are not a sufficient source for criticism of a Premier's policy - even a Premier of Ontario - is just plain laughable. Feel free to provide a source for the quantity of the cuts, if you can find one without doing original research. -- Kibomt 17:32, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
The added text about Bartleman's testimony has been twisted to make it look like Bob Rae missed something in his investigation. Rae's recommendation for an inquiry actually led to Bartleman's revelation. The new text makes it look like Rae's participation in the affair was somehow inferior. Atrian 23:15, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
Wow, that's incredible. He did not interview a key witness, and you don't think that reflects on his judgement? Is that your idea of balance? He gets credit for recommending the inquiry, but not having interviewed a key player at the time was odd, as the references indicate. -- Kibomt 04:15, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
I agree with Atrian, at least on the basis of what I've seen. I'm not sure, and the source doesn't suggest, that it was some sort of omission on Rae's part or that he was aware that Bartleman had such information. Maybe that information exists but I'd want to see it before including it here. And I would note to Kibomt that this isn't a character study. We don't have to include information simply because it reflects on the subject's judgement. -- JGGardiner 07:38, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
Here is the text that CJCurrie proposes to suppress:
"On April 26, 2005, he was appointed to advise Deputy Prime Minister Anne McLellan on whether or not there should be a government inquiry into the 1985 Air India disaster. On November 23, 2005, Rae recommended further inquiry into the investigation and prosecution. [1] In testimony before the Commission of Inquiry led by Justice John C. Major, former Ontario Lieutenant-Governor, James K. Bartleman indicated that in his prior position as the former head of intelligence for Foreign Affairs Canada he had received information about a specific threat to Air India days before Flight 182 blew up in 1985. [2] Bob Rae later admitted that he never bothered to interview Bartleman, the former head of intelligence for Foreign Affairs Canada while investigating the Air India bombing. [3]"
That is not about charachter, but competence. I have no problem with deleting the reference to the Air Inda entirely. However, if it is retained for completeness, the sourced material about the nature of his investigation should also be included. The whole paragraph is aimed at establishing his weighty chores in his post-premiership. That's fair, but if Wikpedia is about biography, not hagiography, the reference must be complete and balanced. -- Kibomt 11:19, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
References
{{ editprotected}} When article duscusses the No-confidence motion attached to the budget, "rider" should link wiki's article on rider bills. Rotovia 00:22, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
{{ editprotected}}
Category:Ontario premiers needs to be replaced with Category:Premiers of Ontario, due to a speedy rename. Thanks. Hersfold ( t/ a/ c) 06:16, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
Jbacu1985 ( talk) 23:56, 6 March 2008 (UTC) CJ Currie - can you discuss your objections here without simply deleting what you personally disagree with.
Jbacu1985 ( talk) 17:06, 8 March 2008 (UTC) it was disastrous - lost talent, lost subscribers and the real possibility that the whole Orchestra wopuld cease to exist - you can't get much more disastrous than that for a symphony orchestra - an opinion I can tell you is shared by most subscribers. The source of the quote is Canada'a most middle of the road newspaper. If you read the article and cheched the calculations against the Stat Can and Ontarion M/F statistics, you'll see that it is completely accurate.
Rae's first stint as an MP should be included in the infobox. Reggie Perrin ( talk) 04:16, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
First and only, at least this moment. He has not yet assumed office, as the infobox shows. Nor has he succeeded Bill Graham as that article says nor does he represent Toronto Centre as that article says. People have been elected before and died without being sworn into office. Elections have been overturned, parliaments dissolved, etc. -- JGGardiner ( talk) 04:49, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
This should be updated. I would do it, but not permitted. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.68.85.224 ( talk) 18:23, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
The reference to Bob Rae as an Anglican should be removed. From what I have read he considers himself ethnically Jewish, but is an atheist. He is not a member of any Anglican Church, has not raised his children in this religion, and has never described himself as one. Factcorrect12 ( talk) 22:23, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
The references to Bob Rae's religion are completely false and rely on unreliable and incorrect information. Rae did not "explore his own Jewish culture," or date Jewish girls exclusively, nor is he a current member of Holy Blossom Temple. The inclusion of this paragraph (which I've copied below) is completely irrelevant and is based on false information and should be removed. I have tried to remove this section of the biography several times because it is false but someone keeps putting it back in clearly with some sort of strange agenda.
(Rae learned of his family's Jewish origins in 1968. The revelation had a strong impact on him, he sought to explore his Jewish culture, dated Jewish girls exclusively and ultimately married a Jewish woman.[9] Upon his marriage to Arlene Perly Rae, Rae agreed to raise his children in his wife's Jewish faith.[10] Rae is a member of Holy Blossom Temple, a Reform Jewish congregation in Toronto.[11]) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.117.101.144 ( talk) 23:43, 11 December 2014 (UTC)
The text about who Rae is not related to should be deleted unless there is some really compelling reason to leave it in. Modal Jig ( talk) 15:25, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
This stuff, to me, seems not to be about Rae per se but about his government. I do not think it belongs here so much as it might in an article about the government itself. Anyway, please weigh in. Dbrodbeck ( talk) 02:26, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
With Rae announcing today that he is stepping down, some contributors will be tempted to revise the lead paragraph to describe him as a former MP. Please do not do so until the news media confirms that his resignation is effective. As best as I can understand from the Rae/Trudeau news conference, Rae has not yet announced when his resignation becomes effective (according to CBC a few minutes ago - "He didn't say when his resignation would be effective."). Even though he is announcing his resignation today, it might or might not be effective today. He could possibly, for example, still be the MP for Toronto Centre for another few days or weeks.
Right now, the article says that Rae has announced he is stepping down. Until we have a reliable source saying the he is no longer MP, we cannot go on to describe him as the former MP. Thanks. -- Skeezix1000 ( talk) 15:39, 19 June 2013 (UTC)
The wait continues. Skeezix1000 ( talk) 19:10, 10 July 2013 (UTC)
It appears that his departure date is July 31. Skeezix1000 ( talk) 13:14, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
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"Bob Rae was in power for 1650 days, the longest term unique to an Ontario premier since the Second World War."
This sentence was in the Premiership section. I am interpreting this as he was the longest serving premier of Ontario since WW2, but that would be incorrect as Bill Davis was longer served and after WW2. Is this sentence supposed to be read a different way? If that is true, can it be changed so as to be read properly? Imperatorhobbes ( talk) 23:58, 27 April 2024 (UTC)