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I have edited the paragraph to add some less known early black footballers in Scotland, one at Hearts, and Walter Tull who signed for Rangers so was technically a Rangers player although he never appeared on the team due to the outbreak of WW1. I also removed the last part as it said Rangers banned their own fans (plural) but the citation states only one fan was given a lifetime ban. Furthermore the phrasing gives a false impression it was the Rangers support who made the racist display, in actual fact it was the celtic support, although no celtic fans were banned by the club. 109.155.136.144 ( talk) 20:16, 24 February 2011 (UTC)
Blacks have been in Scotland before whites came into the area. Don't act like they are from slaves or recent immigrants. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.8.197.169 ( talk) 16:12, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
That is patently ridiculous.-- 24.17.205.130 ( talk) 00:49, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
She was born in Sunderland with no Scottish ancestry.
I propose to remove her from the black Scottish article.-- Windows66 ( talk) 11:17, 20 December 2013 (UTC)
Quote from article: "The same report also suggests that Black People in Scotland. while there has also been predictable criticism that Black people are not well represented in Scottish society generally." I can't correct this as I don't have even the slightest clue what this is attempting to convey. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.188.229.170 ( talk) 00:22, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
A report in 2000 suggested that Black people in Scotland had difficulties in feeling a sense of Scottish identity [1], whilst there has also been criticism that Black people are not well represented in Scottish scoiety generally. [2]Cordless Larry ( talk) 21:10, 3 November 2015 (UTC)
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Ip, please note that 3RR is actually over 24 hours and exempts soapbox rolling. Anyway, kindly stop erroneously claiming that a cite was removed from the lede. The temporal dif clearly shows that I rolled to the original [1]. I did this because the phrase tweaks were soapboxing; the stats bureau link doesn't even mention Sub-Saharan Africa much less Afro-Scots. What it does actually indicate is that "the census question on ethnicity changed between 2001 and 2011. In 2011, tick boxes were added for ‘White: Polish’ and ‘White: Gypsy / Traveller’. Also, ‘African’ was included as a separate category, whereas in 2001 ‘African’ was a tick box within the ‘Black’ category." [2] Ergo, "African" and "Black" are separate self-designation options per the bureau, so the original lede was correct. Soupforone ( talk) 02:41, 5 November 2016 (UTC)
I understand, but per WP:CIV, please avoid making personal remarks and comment instead on the phrasing. That aside, the stats bureau link does not mention Sub-Saharan Africa or Afro-Scots. It doesn't do that because African is a separate census option from the Caribbean or Black option (see Figure 2 on page 11 [3]). Please do not conflate the two, as they are different self-designation options. Regards-- Soupforone ( talk) 15:22, 5 November 2016 (UTC)
That is inaccurate. The African census option is separate from the Caribbean and Black census option; please do not confuse the two as they are different self-designation entries [4]. Berbers (including the transregional Tuareg) have the option to choose the African category or any other self-designation entry, such as the Other ethnic group write-in option. As to the Sahara, although it's a desert now, it was verdant for most of its existence. During the Holocene Wet Phase, various proto-Berber populations actually inhabited the area, including the Kiffian and Tenerian cultures [5]. There were also some proto-Khoisan populations, from whom the modern Haratin of the Maghreb descend. The Uan Muhuggiag mummy, which was excavated in Libya, is a relic of these early non-Berber inhabitants [6]. In the other direction, Berber and Coptic related DNA is today found among other Afro-Asiatic-speaking populations below the Sahara. [7] This only further underlines that the Sahara was not always a geographical barrier. Instead, biologically, linguistically and culturally distinct populations have inhabited all parts of the continent, as they still do. Soupforone ( talk) 16:25, 23 November 2016 (UTC)
Well, that is not quite correct. The Scottish census bureau has African, Caribbean and Black, and Other ethnic group self-designation options, but no distinct Sub-Saharan, North African or Berber options [10]. Even if it did, these are self-designation options as pointed out, not obligations. Berbers can choose the African category or any other self-designation entry, such as the Other ethnic group write-in option. Anyway, as pertains to the Sahara, I indicated that it was lush for much of its existence rather than for all of it. The point was that it was habitable during various periods, such as in the Holocene Wet Phase. This is certain since human fossils have been excavated in the area and dated. During the 5.9 kiloyear junction around 3900 BC, the Sahara dessicated and its inhabitants moved to other locations, including southwards. This is probably when most of the Afro-Asiatic-speaking E1b1b carriers began dispersing from in and around the Nile Valley [11]. Consequently, Beja, Afro-Asiatic-speaking populations in the Horn, and many Nubians share the same ancestral component as Copts [12]. I'm aware that the Chadic and Omotic speakers do not (as they appear instead to be of Nilo-Saharan origin), nor indeed do they carry the E1b1b-M81 Berber marker (the R1b haplogroup found among Chadics does not appear to be Berber associated). Anyway, for the early Khoisan presence in the north, please see North African Protohistoric [13]. Soupforone ( talk) 18:23, 24 November 2016 (UTC)
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I have edited the paragraph to add some less known early black footballers in Scotland, one at Hearts, and Walter Tull who signed for Rangers so was technically a Rangers player although he never appeared on the team due to the outbreak of WW1. I also removed the last part as it said Rangers banned their own fans (plural) but the citation states only one fan was given a lifetime ban. Furthermore the phrasing gives a false impression it was the Rangers support who made the racist display, in actual fact it was the celtic support, although no celtic fans were banned by the club. 109.155.136.144 ( talk) 20:16, 24 February 2011 (UTC)
Blacks have been in Scotland before whites came into the area. Don't act like they are from slaves or recent immigrants. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.8.197.169 ( talk) 16:12, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
That is patently ridiculous.-- 24.17.205.130 ( talk) 00:49, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
She was born in Sunderland with no Scottish ancestry.
I propose to remove her from the black Scottish article.-- Windows66 ( talk) 11:17, 20 December 2013 (UTC)
Quote from article: "The same report also suggests that Black People in Scotland. while there has also been predictable criticism that Black people are not well represented in Scottish society generally." I can't correct this as I don't have even the slightest clue what this is attempting to convey. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.188.229.170 ( talk) 00:22, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
A report in 2000 suggested that Black people in Scotland had difficulties in feeling a sense of Scottish identity [1], whilst there has also been criticism that Black people are not well represented in Scottish scoiety generally. [2]Cordless Larry ( talk) 21:10, 3 November 2015 (UTC)
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 17:44, 3 November 2016 (UTC)
Ip, please note that 3RR is actually over 24 hours and exempts soapbox rolling. Anyway, kindly stop erroneously claiming that a cite was removed from the lede. The temporal dif clearly shows that I rolled to the original [1]. I did this because the phrase tweaks were soapboxing; the stats bureau link doesn't even mention Sub-Saharan Africa much less Afro-Scots. What it does actually indicate is that "the census question on ethnicity changed between 2001 and 2011. In 2011, tick boxes were added for ‘White: Polish’ and ‘White: Gypsy / Traveller’. Also, ‘African’ was included as a separate category, whereas in 2001 ‘African’ was a tick box within the ‘Black’ category." [2] Ergo, "African" and "Black" are separate self-designation options per the bureau, so the original lede was correct. Soupforone ( talk) 02:41, 5 November 2016 (UTC)
I understand, but per WP:CIV, please avoid making personal remarks and comment instead on the phrasing. That aside, the stats bureau link does not mention Sub-Saharan Africa or Afro-Scots. It doesn't do that because African is a separate census option from the Caribbean or Black option (see Figure 2 on page 11 [3]). Please do not conflate the two, as they are different self-designation options. Regards-- Soupforone ( talk) 15:22, 5 November 2016 (UTC)
That is inaccurate. The African census option is separate from the Caribbean and Black census option; please do not confuse the two as they are different self-designation entries [4]. Berbers (including the transregional Tuareg) have the option to choose the African category or any other self-designation entry, such as the Other ethnic group write-in option. As to the Sahara, although it's a desert now, it was verdant for most of its existence. During the Holocene Wet Phase, various proto-Berber populations actually inhabited the area, including the Kiffian and Tenerian cultures [5]. There were also some proto-Khoisan populations, from whom the modern Haratin of the Maghreb descend. The Uan Muhuggiag mummy, which was excavated in Libya, is a relic of these early non-Berber inhabitants [6]. In the other direction, Berber and Coptic related DNA is today found among other Afro-Asiatic-speaking populations below the Sahara. [7] This only further underlines that the Sahara was not always a geographical barrier. Instead, biologically, linguistically and culturally distinct populations have inhabited all parts of the continent, as they still do. Soupforone ( talk) 16:25, 23 November 2016 (UTC)
Well, that is not quite correct. The Scottish census bureau has African, Caribbean and Black, and Other ethnic group self-designation options, but no distinct Sub-Saharan, North African or Berber options [10]. Even if it did, these are self-designation options as pointed out, not obligations. Berbers can choose the African category or any other self-designation entry, such as the Other ethnic group write-in option. Anyway, as pertains to the Sahara, I indicated that it was lush for much of its existence rather than for all of it. The point was that it was habitable during various periods, such as in the Holocene Wet Phase. This is certain since human fossils have been excavated in the area and dated. During the 5.9 kiloyear junction around 3900 BC, the Sahara dessicated and its inhabitants moved to other locations, including southwards. This is probably when most of the Afro-Asiatic-speaking E1b1b carriers began dispersing from in and around the Nile Valley [11]. Consequently, Beja, Afro-Asiatic-speaking populations in the Horn, and many Nubians share the same ancestral component as Copts [12]. I'm aware that the Chadic and Omotic speakers do not (as they appear instead to be of Nilo-Saharan origin), nor indeed do they carry the E1b1b-M81 Berber marker (the R1b haplogroup found among Chadics does not appear to be Berber associated). Anyway, for the early Khoisan presence in the north, please see North African Protohistoric [13]. Soupforone ( talk) 18:23, 24 November 2016 (UTC)
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 11:32, 21 July 2017 (UTC)