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![]() | On 18 March 2024, it was proposed that this article be moved to Black Irish (people). The result of the discussion was not moved. |
"As the Twenty-seventh Amendment of the Constitution of Ireland changed the qualifications for Irish citizenship in 2004, it is unlikely that Ireland will see another major influx black people in the near future."
Really? So, you can say for certain that freedom of movement in the EU, illegal immigration and constant attempts by corporations to open labour markets for the purposes of driving down hiring costs will make that the case? -- Anon. 194.46.185.59 14:46, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
How about "African Irish"?-- h i s s p a c e r e s e a r c h 20:59, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
217.205.245.174 ( talk) 22:48, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
Is Stephen Kelly black? I always thought he was Black Irish which isn't the same. Spiderone ( talk) 17:16, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
I've removed the section that listed notable black Irish people and pasted it below as it appeared before its removal. Please only reinstate this section if you can find reliable sources for it, per WP:BLP. Cordless Larry ( talk) 09:45, 4 January 2011 (UTC)
The following list includes people who are black or multiracial. Some are Irish by birth, others by descent or naturalization. The list also includes groups with some members who fit this description.
Census Info for Northern Ireland clearly needs an update, its talking about 2011 in the future tense! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ultan42 ( talk • contribs) 17:29, 12 June 2014 (UTC)
Pinging recent editors of this article @ Bastun, BrownHairedGirl, WhatamIdoing, Annie Kingdom, Theclownfromit, O'Dea, and Peipsi-Pihkva and regular patrollers of Irish people @ FDW777 and The Banner:
As it stands, the term " Black Irish" redirects to the article Irish people, where it jumps to small two sentences where an anchor has been placed. Up until recently, this anchor was a single sentence that made no mention of people of African descent living in Ireland. Until I added an additional sentence that noted that roughly 10,000 residents of African descendent/origin identified as "Black Irish" in the 2016 census, the anchored sentence only mentioned the very waffle-like idea that, outside of Ireland itself, "Black Irish" refers to Irish people with black hair, which folklore suggests are descendants of shipwrecked Spanish Armanda crewmen. While I initially considered leaving things at that, I still feel like this leaves things in an unsatisfactory state.
My current feeling is that "Black Irish" should redirect to this more fleshed out article (albeit one still in need of a fair amount of work), rather than two throwaway sentences on Irish People.
What do you as editors feel about this idea?
Regards, CeltBrowne ( talk) 05:24, 19 February 2022 (UTC)
X-Men villains and Vikings? As well as everyone in Category:Black Irish people? The Irish aren't known for their Scandinavian blonde hair, so really, Black Irish are the vast majority of the population, it would seem... Hmm. Maybe we just go with the proposal to redirect "Black Irish" to here, and then include a paragraph here covering the various uses of the term. Bastun Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ! 12:25, 21 February 2022 (UTC)
I was redirected to this article from "Black Irish" where I wanted to learn about the historical use of the phrase. Does Wikipedia have nothing at all on this? I found an article elsewhere [8], so I'm sure we could source something from historians - even if it's speculation from qualified historians. Rklawton ( talk) 04:29, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
Please post souce 98.144.238.191 ( talk) 11:33, 26 March 2022 (UTC)
An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect
Black Irish and has thus listed it
for discussion. This discussion will occur at
Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 November 29#Black Irish until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion.
MB
01:41, 29 November 2022 (UTC)
We need to clarify the third paragraph, which presently says "Although many Black servants in Irish households were enslaved Africans, not all Black people in Ireland during this period were enslaved.".
Is this intended to mean that many servant had formerly been enslaved, or that they were kept as slaves while working in Irish houses?
Slavery was ruled not to legally exist on British soil in 1772, by the Somerset case, and it was abolished in the whole empire in 1833. It was initially banned in England by William the Conquerer circa 1100AD. I would have to check, but I believe slavery was outlawed in Ireland even before then.
If the claim is that Irish families were keeping Africans as slaves in Ireland around the 1800s, that needs some serious supporting evidence.
It seems vastly more likely that many black people in Ireland had formerly been slaves, either in America or the Caribbean, but they either escaped or were freed before arriving in Ireland. I'm also reasonably sure that Ireland is on the wrong leg of the triangular trade. The flow of trade was of slaves being transported to America, then tobacco and sugar to northern Europe, then European manufactured goods to Africa. Even for ships that carried slaves, they would have sold their cargo in American before they got to Ireland.
Can we just get some clarification here? 92.26.167.52 ( talk) 17:26, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
This is a nonsensical statement. Black people are significantly underrepresented in the the population as a whole considering it is a majority (vastly) white country. Now, if mass migration had changed the demographics significantly then it would be a fair point ;) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.145.141.64 ( talk) 23:04, 1 May 2023 (UTC)
Africans in Ireland is a better title. 5.182.37.93 ( talk) 11:20, 5 May 2023 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved. Consensus against the proposed move is clear, and there is no reason to expect that relisting will change this. BD2412 T 00:08, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
Black people in Ireland → Black Irish (people) – Black Irish in Ireland is now an identity with thousands of Black people in Ireland identifying as Black Irish. I think it should be the main title of the place with (people) at the end to discern it from the (folklore) article. Freee Contributor ( talk) 21:56, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Black people in Ireland article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | On 18 March 2024, it was proposed that this article be moved to Black Irish (people). The result of the discussion was not moved. |
"As the Twenty-seventh Amendment of the Constitution of Ireland changed the qualifications for Irish citizenship in 2004, it is unlikely that Ireland will see another major influx black people in the near future."
Really? So, you can say for certain that freedom of movement in the EU, illegal immigration and constant attempts by corporations to open labour markets for the purposes of driving down hiring costs will make that the case? -- Anon. 194.46.185.59 14:46, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
How about "African Irish"?-- h i s s p a c e r e s e a r c h 20:59, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
217.205.245.174 ( talk) 22:48, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
Is Stephen Kelly black? I always thought he was Black Irish which isn't the same. Spiderone ( talk) 17:16, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
I've removed the section that listed notable black Irish people and pasted it below as it appeared before its removal. Please only reinstate this section if you can find reliable sources for it, per WP:BLP. Cordless Larry ( talk) 09:45, 4 January 2011 (UTC)
The following list includes people who are black or multiracial. Some are Irish by birth, others by descent or naturalization. The list also includes groups with some members who fit this description.
Census Info for Northern Ireland clearly needs an update, its talking about 2011 in the future tense! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ultan42 ( talk • contribs) 17:29, 12 June 2014 (UTC)
Pinging recent editors of this article @ Bastun, BrownHairedGirl, WhatamIdoing, Annie Kingdom, Theclownfromit, O'Dea, and Peipsi-Pihkva and regular patrollers of Irish people @ FDW777 and The Banner:
As it stands, the term " Black Irish" redirects to the article Irish people, where it jumps to small two sentences where an anchor has been placed. Up until recently, this anchor was a single sentence that made no mention of people of African descent living in Ireland. Until I added an additional sentence that noted that roughly 10,000 residents of African descendent/origin identified as "Black Irish" in the 2016 census, the anchored sentence only mentioned the very waffle-like idea that, outside of Ireland itself, "Black Irish" refers to Irish people with black hair, which folklore suggests are descendants of shipwrecked Spanish Armanda crewmen. While I initially considered leaving things at that, I still feel like this leaves things in an unsatisfactory state.
My current feeling is that "Black Irish" should redirect to this more fleshed out article (albeit one still in need of a fair amount of work), rather than two throwaway sentences on Irish People.
What do you as editors feel about this idea?
Regards, CeltBrowne ( talk) 05:24, 19 February 2022 (UTC)
X-Men villains and Vikings? As well as everyone in Category:Black Irish people? The Irish aren't known for their Scandinavian blonde hair, so really, Black Irish are the vast majority of the population, it would seem... Hmm. Maybe we just go with the proposal to redirect "Black Irish" to here, and then include a paragraph here covering the various uses of the term. Bastun Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ! 12:25, 21 February 2022 (UTC)
I was redirected to this article from "Black Irish" where I wanted to learn about the historical use of the phrase. Does Wikipedia have nothing at all on this? I found an article elsewhere [8], so I'm sure we could source something from historians - even if it's speculation from qualified historians. Rklawton ( talk) 04:29, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
Please post souce 98.144.238.191 ( talk) 11:33, 26 March 2022 (UTC)
An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect
Black Irish and has thus listed it
for discussion. This discussion will occur at
Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 November 29#Black Irish until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion.
MB
01:41, 29 November 2022 (UTC)
We need to clarify the third paragraph, which presently says "Although many Black servants in Irish households were enslaved Africans, not all Black people in Ireland during this period were enslaved.".
Is this intended to mean that many servant had formerly been enslaved, or that they were kept as slaves while working in Irish houses?
Slavery was ruled not to legally exist on British soil in 1772, by the Somerset case, and it was abolished in the whole empire in 1833. It was initially banned in England by William the Conquerer circa 1100AD. I would have to check, but I believe slavery was outlawed in Ireland even before then.
If the claim is that Irish families were keeping Africans as slaves in Ireland around the 1800s, that needs some serious supporting evidence.
It seems vastly more likely that many black people in Ireland had formerly been slaves, either in America or the Caribbean, but they either escaped or were freed before arriving in Ireland. I'm also reasonably sure that Ireland is on the wrong leg of the triangular trade. The flow of trade was of slaves being transported to America, then tobacco and sugar to northern Europe, then European manufactured goods to Africa. Even for ships that carried slaves, they would have sold their cargo in American before they got to Ireland.
Can we just get some clarification here? 92.26.167.52 ( talk) 17:26, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
This is a nonsensical statement. Black people are significantly underrepresented in the the population as a whole considering it is a majority (vastly) white country. Now, if mass migration had changed the demographics significantly then it would be a fair point ;) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.145.141.64 ( talk) 23:04, 1 May 2023 (UTC)
Africans in Ireland is a better title. 5.182.37.93 ( talk) 11:20, 5 May 2023 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved. Consensus against the proposed move is clear, and there is no reason to expect that relisting will change this. BD2412 T 00:08, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
Black people in Ireland → Black Irish (people) – Black Irish in Ireland is now an identity with thousands of Black people in Ireland identifying as Black Irish. I think it should be the main title of the place with (people) at the end to discern it from the (folklore) article. Freee Contributor ( talk) 21:56, 18 March 2024 (UTC)