This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
Ok, make an index.
Black Hat, BlackHat, BH, can have tons of meanings. the term is used in several fields including hacking, marketing, movies, fighting, clothing, this article needs to be 100% rewritten. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.131.136.139 ( talk) 04:26, 16 April 2012 (UTC)
This is an awful article full of P.C. nonsense. It's full of ESR revisionist linguistics. It should define "Black Hat" and not get into the whole hacker/cracker controversy.
This article is completely
Agreed - I came here for a genuine need to find out what black hat was - there is no need to rehash the whole hacker/cracker debate, which is hardly relevant. Sort it out, clean it up - this entry should have no more than a couple of paragraphs. Now I understand why there is so much controversy surrounding wikipedia.. Davidwoody ( talk) 03:37, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
That debate ended up in here because earlier you were sent directly to this page when searching for the term "Cracker". Fortunately this mistake has now been corrected by someone, so I'm sure the confusion is all gone now. JoaCHIP ( talk) 15:09, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
This seems to be a modern alternative definition of the term Cracker. An expression derived from the term "to crack", usually meaning the process of circumventing copy protection in software and games. Most pirate groups still call themselves "crackers". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.128.61.214 ( talk • contribs)
I agree. In the '80s the cracking scene was game swappers and protection-breakers, and it partially evolved into the demoscene: it was not about malicious "hacking" of networked computers. 86.131.101.243 22:01, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
It seems that people think that "hacker" means "black hat", while there are a good number of hackers who do not do anything maliciously, they mearly use their skills to test their own network. Hacking is getting something to do what it was not intended for, and this is not necessarily bad. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sphinx1364 ( talk • contribs)
Perhaps we should consider differentiating between the old and new connotations. To my knowledge, at least from about 1985 until 1991, cracking always meant circumventing copy protection. Hackers who followed the code (observe but don't tamper) were hackers. Hackers that didn't follow the code were... hackers that didn't follow the code. Phreakers were phreakers. Social Engineering was a tool possibly used by all the individuals, and very few of the individuals were just one or the other "profession." All this is to say that this perception of crackers=black hats/hackers=white hats I find quite unfamiliar. I am pretty sure, from the discussion here and from my own observations, that crackers being those that circumvent copy protection is a more accurate defintion. But at the very least it should be presented as an alternate defintion. If I remember (or if someone else wants to) I will try to dig up some Phrack archives that would lend credence to the proliferation of the copy-protection/cracking perception. Now time to go back to sleep.... WDavis1911 11:23, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
uh this is an entry about "black-hats". Leave the cracker/hacker debates to the relevant pages and link to it from this page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Davidwoody ( talk • contribs) 03:39, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
Whoever said blackhats are "economically" motivated, apparently hasn't taken a deep enough look into the blackhat culture.
Black Hat conference?
Defining today's black hat has not been easy, because even in hacking there are few terms that can be simplified. There are two types of hackers--ethical and unethical. Ethical hackers work on tasks which are provided to him legally or under certain rules and regulations, and unethical hackers work on tasks that are illegal.
A black hat, who is also known as an unethical hacker, breaks the privacy of any individual, steals data and defaces information, which might includes vast data destruction, information stealing, privacy breaking, and online theft. There are a few like Takshak Hack of India, Silver Lords of Pakistan, and The Hack Boyz of Tabriez, who are defacing government sites of eachother's countries, as part of an 'online war'.
Just curious but in common usage is the term black hat upper-cased, as in "Black Hat", or lowercased, as in "black hat". The article seems to use both. Hullee 08:23, 21 November 2005 (UTC)≈
I just wanted to mention that the definition of "brown hat" needs to be synced with what the grey hat article has to say. -- J44xm 22:42, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
Uh, I don't know anything about hacking etc etc. But if anyone get any big ideas, make it about brown hats.
I've gone ahead and redacted them from this Wikipedia article. They are both covered elsewhere on Wikipedia, and neither of them has any obvious criminal conviction in relation to computer crime. To the contrary, their involvement in computer hacking extends primarily to the publication of magazines and/or newsletters relating to this topic. This is a protected, non-criminal activity.
While Neidorf was charged at one point, his case was dismissed before going to trial.
Please discuss here prior to re-adding them to this entry.
Adrian Lamo · (talk) · (mail) · 23:39, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
I don't think Security_cracking should redirect to a worthless page arguing about the merits of various names for the humans who perform it. 24.110.60.225 02:24, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
The article states that Black Hat "probably comes from the opposite of Red Hat Wizards." I'm sure that's inaccurate, as Black Hat is opposite White Hat, which most likely is coined from the mid 20th century westerns on TV (where 'good guys' wore white hats, criminals wore black). I'm going to change it to this, as I don't see how Red Hat applies here. Pandemic 05:43, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
Probably a confusion of Red Hat Linux....
Mythmon
01:18, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
Why is Red Hat in the external links section? Does it have any relation to Black hat/ White hat other than the linguistic similarity? Ojw 18:39, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
red hat is there because the original Hackers, neither really black or white hats, believe in open source. completely. -- 212.219.242.13 10:40, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
Hey folks,
Quick google search pulls up nothing on Jack D. Slater + Enron or D-Cypher + Enron. Can we get a source on this? And if we're going to list this Justin Peterson guy, we should have more info (quick search pulls up this: [1]). Actually, in general, we need references on all these people - I don't know about other Wikipedians but I have no idea about most of these people and don't know whether I can trust the listing of their names and offenses.
Janet13 06:34, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
Hello,
I was wondering if anyone knew anything about the origins of the phrase 'black hat', something I've been interested in for a while. I had assumed it was a recent coinage, but then I was reading Thomas Hauser's biography of Muhammad Ali, where it talks about the assumption before the Sonny Liston fight that Liston was a 'black hat' and Ali a 'white hat'. Looking into it a little further, the OED (under the headword 'hat') says 'black hat (Australian slang): a newly arrived immigrant.' Does anyone else know anything about the history of this phrase, or how it came to be used in hackerdom? I've been meaning to look it up in the Random House Historical Dictionary of American Slang, but I haven't gotten around to it.
Thanks, Mrgah 13:50, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
"White hat" and "black hat" is intended to show one group as "good" as opposed to the other, being "evil" respectivly.
This was coined from early American Televison westerns. Since the broadcast was black and white only, the evil character would wear a black cowboy hat and the good character a white one for easy distinction. Since then the use of "black and white hats" have been applied to various groups, probably none more than hacking though.
Pandemic
14:43, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
I removed the following comment:
...largely because my understanding is that the classic TV explanation is more plausible than a specific sourcing to MAD, prevalent though the latter's influence may be on computer culture. The Black Hat/White Hat distinction is pretty well understood throughout US culture to mean "Bad Guy/Good Guy", and the "Grey" would follow naturally to anyone familiar with the phrase "grey area", espeically to any computer programmer who has had to deal with color-encoding. Abb3w 16:55, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
Some of the recent ip stuff on this page:
http://www.syndk8.net/forum/index.php/topic,10790.msg104248.html#msg104248
Geni 16:50, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
Seems I wasn't logged in when I added the White Hat link. Sorry.
Neil Smithline 17:33, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
There is also an annual Black Hat security conference in Las Vegas. I think that article should mention it or refer it. Has anyone any information about that? Samohyl Jan 18:25, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
"Murdock will be released from prison in 2008, following a 5 year probationary period." Surely this should read "followed by"? MarkMLl 09:38, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
What is it with all these IP's spamming this article? Has anyone else noticed this? Most of the edits done to this artcicle (and the White hat page) is mostly vandalism reverts. -- Kerowren 00:47, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
I provided some external links and was accused of spam even though they fell well within the guidelines. For some reason or another the current entry for 'Black hat' alludes only to crackers and hackers. There is another meaning for 'Black hat' in the context of search engine marketing. For example an exact search for "black hat seo" in Google provides 271,000 references. Compare this with an exact search for "black hat hacker" which provides only 33,700 references. There are similar examples for "white hat".
Why do you choose to completely exclude the more popular meaning of these two terms? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.16.146.38 ( talk) 18:06, 26 December 2006
I do visit lots of computer related forums and you are mistaken. Most of the black hat talk is about SEO. In the distant past you may have been correct in your assumption but things have moved on, even blackhatseo.com was registered over four years ago. You can carry on ignoring it, it's not my problem but please don't display your prejudice by incorrectly referring to the link I suggested as spam.
Update - The much improved entry for Search Engine Optimization has a better contextual link now to this page (Black Hat). However there is nothing on this page about black hat seo thanks to the removal of so called spam. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.16.146.38 ( talk) 08:56, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
This article is biased towards US University-educated IT-related people only and has no right to purport itself as representing world opinion or understanding on the notion of a "hacker". Please read the full explanation for Systemic and Cultural Bias with regard to hacking on the Hacker page. I have temporarily added the {{globalize/USA}} warning marker to warn non-IT related people, and non-native English speakers, of the dangers of interpreting this article in its current form.
Andrew81446 ( talk) 10:21, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
Andrew81446 (
talk)
04:30, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
I am changing the redierct for Cracker (computing). This article does not mention the subject of cracking, or the people who do so. Also, it apears that this was removed in a previous edit. With no reason to keep it, I will move it to Software cracking. Sephiroth storm ( talk) 17:26, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
There are two examples listed - "Marcelo" and "Leonardo", both of which link to Disambiguation pages where I can find no notable "black hat villains" listed. Does anybody know who - specifically - these two names refer to, and if so can you update the links to go to the actual pages of these people/characters? And if not, perhaps these should be removed, since in their current state they don't add anything useful to the article. Damage ( talk) 22:10, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
AGAINST - White/Grey/Black Hat are have defined and distinict meanings. Having them on seperate pages are very usefull for helping people understand the difference. I suggest having each "hat" page separate, each containing an link to Hacker (computer security) and the other two "hats". Hacker (computer security) should then be cleaned up - focus on the general definition of hacker, and not explain everything else. I think this is what User: Irisish Wonder is getting at as well. -- Blaufish 21:31, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
AGAINST - the two terms are seperate enough. -- H2g2bob 21:30, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
AGAINST - the solution should be to refine the Hacking page so that it more appropriately reflects the true definition of the term. -- Anaraug 23:43, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
AGAINST - semi different
AGAINST - It is important to distinguish between the different classes of hackers. Combining this with Hackers in general will only mean that less detail will go into specifics regarding each hacker class. Keeping the classes separated means more information regarding each of them. -- DJ.Bri.T 03:15, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
AGAINST - It's important that links to "hacker" or "cracker" can be distinguished as to show the meaning in context. Note: I was responsible for much of the work in seperating out the articles: hacker, hacker (computer security), black hat, Hacker definition controversy, and Hacker (disambiguation). It was a right mess when they were all covered in the same article. — Pengo 06:54, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
MERGE - It makes sense to merge it with Hacker(Computer_Security) since that topic is more biased on useing the term 'Hacker' to signify a person who breaks/enters a computer network. It uses the term Black Hat to signify a person who maliciously breaks into a network, inspite of the fact that a black hat's skills could range beyond that. I say either merge black hat into it (since it leads a person to think that black hats _only_ break into networks with malicious intent) or remove Hacker(Computer_Security) altogether. I'm leaning more toward removeing Hacker(C_S) since it needs some signifcant work before it can be of any value and black hat could simply be cleaned up to clarify black hats more accurately, but i don't think that will be happening anytime soon. Pandemic 15:03, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
AGAINST - There should be a differentiation between the hackers and their acts, too easily mixed if on the same page. Also, only merging black hats and leaving white and grey hats on different pages would give a skewed view of the term. Anand 16:21, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
AGAINST - This article is too specific to be merged. However, depending on the length of the other hat color articles, they might be candidates for merging. -- SheeEttin 19:32, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
AGAINST: We need to re-claim the term hacker. Hacker helps modify the software and should be a possitive term, while cracker as negative term
AGAINST Shinobu 01:37, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
AGAINST
Bhaskar Tiwari 2:33 AM 5/21/2006 (IST)
The term BLACK HAT has a philosophical aspect....Black HAt Hackers may be a computer term not BLACK HAT itself
it should remain aloof...
Bhaskar <ebhakt>
AGAINST You are talking about two different topics and trying to turn them into something that might be the same. There is no like in black hat and security.
I just discovered the article Black hat (film): it seems an unnecessary disambiguation, as the film trope is arguably the primary meaning of the term, and is what this article is about. I suggest that article be merged into this one. Robofish ( talk) 00:10, 3 May 2010 (UTC)
Why not expand this thread, and split it to refer to the multiple terms? I know that this'll lead to another annoying disambiguation page, and annoying links to fix all over the place, but it should patch up the needs of a few things. And I believe that the whole "Merge" idea has been shot down. 209.91.156.246 ( talk) 21:16, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
Apparently a compromise has been reached. There is a separate disambiguation page and a link to that page, but most of the content of Black hat (disambiguation) is replicated here. I wonder who thought this was a good idea.-- 88.73.24.53 ( talk) 22:27, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
Both the articles Black hat and Black hat (film) have now been stable, with almost 100% duplication and no further comment, for some months. I'm going to WP:be bold and merge to Black hat (film), similarly to White hat (film), and leaving Black hat to eventually become the DAB. Andrewa ( talk) 18:26, 27 February 2012 (UTC)
I can't help but think the terms 'black hat' and 'white hat' must come from the Hollywood tradition (in the old cowboy movies) to have the bad guys wear black hats and the good guys white hats. I think this would be important to include if it can be verified. Neil -- 66.238.192.50 ( talk) 14:14, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
Ok, make an index.
Black Hat, BlackHat, BH, can have tons of meanings. the term is used in several fields including hacking, marketing, movies, fighting, clothing, this article needs to be 100% rewritten. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.131.136.139 ( talk) 04:26, 16 April 2012 (UTC)
This is an awful article full of P.C. nonsense. It's full of ESR revisionist linguistics. It should define "Black Hat" and not get into the whole hacker/cracker controversy.
This article is completely
Agreed - I came here for a genuine need to find out what black hat was - there is no need to rehash the whole hacker/cracker debate, which is hardly relevant. Sort it out, clean it up - this entry should have no more than a couple of paragraphs. Now I understand why there is so much controversy surrounding wikipedia.. Davidwoody ( talk) 03:37, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
That debate ended up in here because earlier you were sent directly to this page when searching for the term "Cracker". Fortunately this mistake has now been corrected by someone, so I'm sure the confusion is all gone now. JoaCHIP ( talk) 15:09, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
This seems to be a modern alternative definition of the term Cracker. An expression derived from the term "to crack", usually meaning the process of circumventing copy protection in software and games. Most pirate groups still call themselves "crackers". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.128.61.214 ( talk • contribs)
I agree. In the '80s the cracking scene was game swappers and protection-breakers, and it partially evolved into the demoscene: it was not about malicious "hacking" of networked computers. 86.131.101.243 22:01, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
It seems that people think that "hacker" means "black hat", while there are a good number of hackers who do not do anything maliciously, they mearly use their skills to test their own network. Hacking is getting something to do what it was not intended for, and this is not necessarily bad. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sphinx1364 ( talk • contribs)
Perhaps we should consider differentiating between the old and new connotations. To my knowledge, at least from about 1985 until 1991, cracking always meant circumventing copy protection. Hackers who followed the code (observe but don't tamper) were hackers. Hackers that didn't follow the code were... hackers that didn't follow the code. Phreakers were phreakers. Social Engineering was a tool possibly used by all the individuals, and very few of the individuals were just one or the other "profession." All this is to say that this perception of crackers=black hats/hackers=white hats I find quite unfamiliar. I am pretty sure, from the discussion here and from my own observations, that crackers being those that circumvent copy protection is a more accurate defintion. But at the very least it should be presented as an alternate defintion. If I remember (or if someone else wants to) I will try to dig up some Phrack archives that would lend credence to the proliferation of the copy-protection/cracking perception. Now time to go back to sleep.... WDavis1911 11:23, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
uh this is an entry about "black-hats". Leave the cracker/hacker debates to the relevant pages and link to it from this page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Davidwoody ( talk • contribs) 03:39, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
Whoever said blackhats are "economically" motivated, apparently hasn't taken a deep enough look into the blackhat culture.
Black Hat conference?
Defining today's black hat has not been easy, because even in hacking there are few terms that can be simplified. There are two types of hackers--ethical and unethical. Ethical hackers work on tasks which are provided to him legally or under certain rules and regulations, and unethical hackers work on tasks that are illegal.
A black hat, who is also known as an unethical hacker, breaks the privacy of any individual, steals data and defaces information, which might includes vast data destruction, information stealing, privacy breaking, and online theft. There are a few like Takshak Hack of India, Silver Lords of Pakistan, and The Hack Boyz of Tabriez, who are defacing government sites of eachother's countries, as part of an 'online war'.
Just curious but in common usage is the term black hat upper-cased, as in "Black Hat", or lowercased, as in "black hat". The article seems to use both. Hullee 08:23, 21 November 2005 (UTC)≈
I just wanted to mention that the definition of "brown hat" needs to be synced with what the grey hat article has to say. -- J44xm 22:42, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
Uh, I don't know anything about hacking etc etc. But if anyone get any big ideas, make it about brown hats.
I've gone ahead and redacted them from this Wikipedia article. They are both covered elsewhere on Wikipedia, and neither of them has any obvious criminal conviction in relation to computer crime. To the contrary, their involvement in computer hacking extends primarily to the publication of magazines and/or newsletters relating to this topic. This is a protected, non-criminal activity.
While Neidorf was charged at one point, his case was dismissed before going to trial.
Please discuss here prior to re-adding them to this entry.
Adrian Lamo · (talk) · (mail) · 23:39, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
I don't think Security_cracking should redirect to a worthless page arguing about the merits of various names for the humans who perform it. 24.110.60.225 02:24, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
The article states that Black Hat "probably comes from the opposite of Red Hat Wizards." I'm sure that's inaccurate, as Black Hat is opposite White Hat, which most likely is coined from the mid 20th century westerns on TV (where 'good guys' wore white hats, criminals wore black). I'm going to change it to this, as I don't see how Red Hat applies here. Pandemic 05:43, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
Probably a confusion of Red Hat Linux....
Mythmon
01:18, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
Why is Red Hat in the external links section? Does it have any relation to Black hat/ White hat other than the linguistic similarity? Ojw 18:39, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
red hat is there because the original Hackers, neither really black or white hats, believe in open source. completely. -- 212.219.242.13 10:40, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
Hey folks,
Quick google search pulls up nothing on Jack D. Slater + Enron or D-Cypher + Enron. Can we get a source on this? And if we're going to list this Justin Peterson guy, we should have more info (quick search pulls up this: [1]). Actually, in general, we need references on all these people - I don't know about other Wikipedians but I have no idea about most of these people and don't know whether I can trust the listing of their names and offenses.
Janet13 06:34, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
Hello,
I was wondering if anyone knew anything about the origins of the phrase 'black hat', something I've been interested in for a while. I had assumed it was a recent coinage, but then I was reading Thomas Hauser's biography of Muhammad Ali, where it talks about the assumption before the Sonny Liston fight that Liston was a 'black hat' and Ali a 'white hat'. Looking into it a little further, the OED (under the headword 'hat') says 'black hat (Australian slang): a newly arrived immigrant.' Does anyone else know anything about the history of this phrase, or how it came to be used in hackerdom? I've been meaning to look it up in the Random House Historical Dictionary of American Slang, but I haven't gotten around to it.
Thanks, Mrgah 13:50, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
"White hat" and "black hat" is intended to show one group as "good" as opposed to the other, being "evil" respectivly.
This was coined from early American Televison westerns. Since the broadcast was black and white only, the evil character would wear a black cowboy hat and the good character a white one for easy distinction. Since then the use of "black and white hats" have been applied to various groups, probably none more than hacking though.
Pandemic
14:43, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
I removed the following comment:
...largely because my understanding is that the classic TV explanation is more plausible than a specific sourcing to MAD, prevalent though the latter's influence may be on computer culture. The Black Hat/White Hat distinction is pretty well understood throughout US culture to mean "Bad Guy/Good Guy", and the "Grey" would follow naturally to anyone familiar with the phrase "grey area", espeically to any computer programmer who has had to deal with color-encoding. Abb3w 16:55, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
Some of the recent ip stuff on this page:
http://www.syndk8.net/forum/index.php/topic,10790.msg104248.html#msg104248
Geni 16:50, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
Seems I wasn't logged in when I added the White Hat link. Sorry.
Neil Smithline 17:33, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
There is also an annual Black Hat security conference in Las Vegas. I think that article should mention it or refer it. Has anyone any information about that? Samohyl Jan 18:25, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
"Murdock will be released from prison in 2008, following a 5 year probationary period." Surely this should read "followed by"? MarkMLl 09:38, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
What is it with all these IP's spamming this article? Has anyone else noticed this? Most of the edits done to this artcicle (and the White hat page) is mostly vandalism reverts. -- Kerowren 00:47, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
I provided some external links and was accused of spam even though they fell well within the guidelines. For some reason or another the current entry for 'Black hat' alludes only to crackers and hackers. There is another meaning for 'Black hat' in the context of search engine marketing. For example an exact search for "black hat seo" in Google provides 271,000 references. Compare this with an exact search for "black hat hacker" which provides only 33,700 references. There are similar examples for "white hat".
Why do you choose to completely exclude the more popular meaning of these two terms? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.16.146.38 ( talk) 18:06, 26 December 2006
I do visit lots of computer related forums and you are mistaken. Most of the black hat talk is about SEO. In the distant past you may have been correct in your assumption but things have moved on, even blackhatseo.com was registered over four years ago. You can carry on ignoring it, it's not my problem but please don't display your prejudice by incorrectly referring to the link I suggested as spam.
Update - The much improved entry for Search Engine Optimization has a better contextual link now to this page (Black Hat). However there is nothing on this page about black hat seo thanks to the removal of so called spam. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.16.146.38 ( talk) 08:56, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
This article is biased towards US University-educated IT-related people only and has no right to purport itself as representing world opinion or understanding on the notion of a "hacker". Please read the full explanation for Systemic and Cultural Bias with regard to hacking on the Hacker page. I have temporarily added the {{globalize/USA}} warning marker to warn non-IT related people, and non-native English speakers, of the dangers of interpreting this article in its current form.
Andrew81446 ( talk) 10:21, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
Andrew81446 (
talk)
04:30, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
I am changing the redierct for Cracker (computing). This article does not mention the subject of cracking, or the people who do so. Also, it apears that this was removed in a previous edit. With no reason to keep it, I will move it to Software cracking. Sephiroth storm ( talk) 17:26, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
There are two examples listed - "Marcelo" and "Leonardo", both of which link to Disambiguation pages where I can find no notable "black hat villains" listed. Does anybody know who - specifically - these two names refer to, and if so can you update the links to go to the actual pages of these people/characters? And if not, perhaps these should be removed, since in their current state they don't add anything useful to the article. Damage ( talk) 22:10, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
AGAINST - White/Grey/Black Hat are have defined and distinict meanings. Having them on seperate pages are very usefull for helping people understand the difference. I suggest having each "hat" page separate, each containing an link to Hacker (computer security) and the other two "hats". Hacker (computer security) should then be cleaned up - focus on the general definition of hacker, and not explain everything else. I think this is what User: Irisish Wonder is getting at as well. -- Blaufish 21:31, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
AGAINST - the two terms are seperate enough. -- H2g2bob 21:30, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
AGAINST - the solution should be to refine the Hacking page so that it more appropriately reflects the true definition of the term. -- Anaraug 23:43, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
AGAINST - semi different
AGAINST - It is important to distinguish between the different classes of hackers. Combining this with Hackers in general will only mean that less detail will go into specifics regarding each hacker class. Keeping the classes separated means more information regarding each of them. -- DJ.Bri.T 03:15, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
AGAINST - It's important that links to "hacker" or "cracker" can be distinguished as to show the meaning in context. Note: I was responsible for much of the work in seperating out the articles: hacker, hacker (computer security), black hat, Hacker definition controversy, and Hacker (disambiguation). It was a right mess when they were all covered in the same article. — Pengo 06:54, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
MERGE - It makes sense to merge it with Hacker(Computer_Security) since that topic is more biased on useing the term 'Hacker' to signify a person who breaks/enters a computer network. It uses the term Black Hat to signify a person who maliciously breaks into a network, inspite of the fact that a black hat's skills could range beyond that. I say either merge black hat into it (since it leads a person to think that black hats _only_ break into networks with malicious intent) or remove Hacker(Computer_Security) altogether. I'm leaning more toward removeing Hacker(C_S) since it needs some signifcant work before it can be of any value and black hat could simply be cleaned up to clarify black hats more accurately, but i don't think that will be happening anytime soon. Pandemic 15:03, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
AGAINST - There should be a differentiation between the hackers and their acts, too easily mixed if on the same page. Also, only merging black hats and leaving white and grey hats on different pages would give a skewed view of the term. Anand 16:21, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
AGAINST - This article is too specific to be merged. However, depending on the length of the other hat color articles, they might be candidates for merging. -- SheeEttin 19:32, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
AGAINST: We need to re-claim the term hacker. Hacker helps modify the software and should be a possitive term, while cracker as negative term
AGAINST Shinobu 01:37, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
AGAINST
Bhaskar Tiwari 2:33 AM 5/21/2006 (IST)
The term BLACK HAT has a philosophical aspect....Black HAt Hackers may be a computer term not BLACK HAT itself
it should remain aloof...
Bhaskar <ebhakt>
AGAINST You are talking about two different topics and trying to turn them into something that might be the same. There is no like in black hat and security.
I just discovered the article Black hat (film): it seems an unnecessary disambiguation, as the film trope is arguably the primary meaning of the term, and is what this article is about. I suggest that article be merged into this one. Robofish ( talk) 00:10, 3 May 2010 (UTC)
Why not expand this thread, and split it to refer to the multiple terms? I know that this'll lead to another annoying disambiguation page, and annoying links to fix all over the place, but it should patch up the needs of a few things. And I believe that the whole "Merge" idea has been shot down. 209.91.156.246 ( talk) 21:16, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
Apparently a compromise has been reached. There is a separate disambiguation page and a link to that page, but most of the content of Black hat (disambiguation) is replicated here. I wonder who thought this was a good idea.-- 88.73.24.53 ( talk) 22:27, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
Both the articles Black hat and Black hat (film) have now been stable, with almost 100% duplication and no further comment, for some months. I'm going to WP:be bold and merge to Black hat (film), similarly to White hat (film), and leaving Black hat to eventually become the DAB. Andrewa ( talk) 18:26, 27 February 2012 (UTC)
I can't help but think the terms 'black hat' and 'white hat' must come from the Hollywood tradition (in the old cowboy movies) to have the bad guys wear black hats and the good guys white hats. I think this would be important to include if it can be verified. Neil -- 66.238.192.50 ( talk) 14:14, 5 December 2007 (UTC)