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Is anyone going to verify any of this?
Noone can verify that it is cool to wear a band's tshirt to their own concert.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Doug Bell ( talk • contribs)
T-shirt sales are a big part of the concert biz, but as titled, I don't think the article describes something worth treatment separate from Event T-shirt concessions (or something similar), or List of teenage dirtbag fashion statements. Actually, this entire article could be pasted into T-shirt.
Yes black was a popular color for "rock" tees, but I don't think the color was linked to live music as a cultural phenomenon or anything — my black band tee (Jimi Hendrix, circa '78) was purchased in a record store, and had no appearance dates. White shirts were sold even then at some concerts, and today concert tees come in a range of colors for some artists.
I'd {{ merge}} tag this, but would like to hear others' opinions about why this article exists, at least as titled. — edgarde 16:35, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
My opinion is that you, Edgarde, seem to think that this is not notable, which is obvious from some of your statements ("teenage dirtbag fashion statements", etc.). However, it is a widespread trend, and a lot of non-teens wear concert T-shirts. I myself wear nothing else, and I'm 21. This is a notable clothing article, like New Rock boots, leather jackets (see also rocker jacket), Kutten, and spike bands.
I agree however that the title is a bit strange, and it would probably be a good thing to move it to something like "Concert T-shirt", as there are concert T-shirts that aren't black.
As Mattarata points out, merging this into T-shirt, though a tempting idea, would condemn this material to remain as a small section and never be expanded. There is surely stuff to add, like a history of these clothing articles, their economic significance for bands and organisers of tours, etc. There are plenty of articles about fashion, and there is nothing wrong with that, provided that it is a sufficiantly widespread trend (which is the case) and that there are reliable sources.
If this article was to remain in its present state, then it should be merged. But as I say, it could be expanded, and would then be worthy of its own space. So for the moment I oppose a merge, but if nothing has changed in a couple of months, then it should be merged (it is a fairly young article after all, let's give it some time). Iron C hris | (talk) 17:48, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
Since no consensus was reached on the merge with T-shirt I am removing the merge tag. -- Mattarata 02:03, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
"You're a punk rock kid; you're a Madonna wannabe; you're a headbanger."
Without really mentioning the rock concert T, does this kinda encompass the "Black concert T-shirt" concept?
When I wear my Nico denim jacket, my Abba baseball cap, or my Lords Of Acid buttplug, aren't I just showing other music enthusiasts how cool I am? This is all one behavior, right? — edgarde 02:23, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
-I believe all of these links to be better than a an obscure blog reference, and I think they can help add material to the article.
-- Mattarata 00:54, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
I admit I'm impressed by Mattarata's references. I think the way to go would be a rename to Band T-shirt, with a section on Black concert T-shirts. If someone can't fashion a reasonably encyclopedic entry on that sub-topic, just a list of terse quotes from Mattarata's references with in-line citations would certainly stand up. Then put a {{ main}} "Main article" link on T-shirt.
Can we get some agreement on this? I don't want to act alone, or try and steamroll this through. I just think this is a good way to keep this information up to Wikipedia standards. — edgarde 04:11, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
i'm all for keeping this page, but a rename would be nice. while most people are pushing for a more generalized name in terms of colour, i'm voting for dropping the 'concert' bit. black t-shirts have become a generic term for concert goers in some places... in india for one. unfortunately, i wouldn't have any references for this. i speak purely from experience. it's on the lines of calling people longhairs. in a sentence, 'oi, black t-shirts, shift your moshing away from the stage. you're stepping on my pedals.' --Yufeeko 17:26, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
Instead of generalizing the article, perhaps it could be added as a section of Heavy Metal Fashion. The details of the article would be able to be kept whole. Ultimate77 01:16, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
This will never get out of stubbliness as it is - why not rename to Concert T-shirt, which will leave "Black concert T-shirt" as a redirect there, and then have a nice fat portion of that article devoted to the fact that most concert T-shirts are black. I'd be curious to know when concert T-shirts came into use at all. Cheers! bd2412 T 16:32, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
This reference was removed as "unsuitable". Why is it?
Teenage kids, even rebels, don't like to be alone, so when kids opt out of the system, they tend to do it as a group. At the schools I went to, the focus of rebellion was drug use, specifically marijuana. The kids in this tribe wore black concert t-shirts and were called 'freaks.'
{{
cite book}}
: External link in |chapterurl=
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help); URL–wikilink conflict (
help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl=
ignored (|chapter-url=
suggested) (
help); Unknown parameter |month=
ignored (
help); Unknown parameter |origmonth=
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help)Edit summary: one guy saying that black concert t-shirt wearers are "freaks" is not a reliable source; it's just someone's POV. However, every sourced statement this article is collected opinion about the significance of the title subject, so no one editor's argument of "I disagree" with any notable source is by itself enough reason to remove a sourced statement. Remove this, and the article is increasing original research. / edg ☺ ★ 16:22, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
I think this article should be rewritten into an article about band shirts in general, or even better: band merchandise. Most band shirts aren't concert shirts, not all of them are black and many are longsleeves or hoodies. For example: I have about 20 band shirts of which four are hoodies, four are longsleeves, three aren't black and only three or four are concert tees.
I just noticed that this article got nominated for deletion and then moved. As the original author of the page, I was notified, but didn't get a chance to comment before the process was closed. I do object to moving the article. The idea of the article is to document the fad/trend/phenomenon that is the Black Concert t-shirt, not concert t-shirts in general. Concert t-shirts have become a small part of the larger merchandising efforts by bands and groups, but the idea of the black concert t-shirt is much different. The black t-shirt is a cultural identifier, a uniform of sorts, that different groups of people have used and continue to use to identify themselves. Yes there are many other colors now, but the traditional idea of a black concert t-shirt needs to be emphasized. At the very least, the article now needs to be more extensive to cover concert t-shirts in general with a specific section on the idea of the black concert t-shirt. As it is, someone is going to come in and remove all references to black, which will lose the original idea of the article. Then the article will have even more cause to be deleted or to be merged with concert merchandising or something. -- Mattarata ( talk) 19:40, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
"Such shirts are everyday wear in some teen subcultures, especially stoners and freaks.[4]" isn't that just the editors opinion? eeew eew look out those weirdoes in black shirts, i bet they smoke pot. 67.176.22.6 ( talk) 04:04, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
![]() | This article was nominated for
deletion. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination:
|
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||
|
Is anyone going to verify any of this?
Noone can verify that it is cool to wear a band's tshirt to their own concert.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Doug Bell ( talk • contribs)
T-shirt sales are a big part of the concert biz, but as titled, I don't think the article describes something worth treatment separate from Event T-shirt concessions (or something similar), or List of teenage dirtbag fashion statements. Actually, this entire article could be pasted into T-shirt.
Yes black was a popular color for "rock" tees, but I don't think the color was linked to live music as a cultural phenomenon or anything — my black band tee (Jimi Hendrix, circa '78) was purchased in a record store, and had no appearance dates. White shirts were sold even then at some concerts, and today concert tees come in a range of colors for some artists.
I'd {{ merge}} tag this, but would like to hear others' opinions about why this article exists, at least as titled. — edgarde 16:35, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
My opinion is that you, Edgarde, seem to think that this is not notable, which is obvious from some of your statements ("teenage dirtbag fashion statements", etc.). However, it is a widespread trend, and a lot of non-teens wear concert T-shirts. I myself wear nothing else, and I'm 21. This is a notable clothing article, like New Rock boots, leather jackets (see also rocker jacket), Kutten, and spike bands.
I agree however that the title is a bit strange, and it would probably be a good thing to move it to something like "Concert T-shirt", as there are concert T-shirts that aren't black.
As Mattarata points out, merging this into T-shirt, though a tempting idea, would condemn this material to remain as a small section and never be expanded. There is surely stuff to add, like a history of these clothing articles, their economic significance for bands and organisers of tours, etc. There are plenty of articles about fashion, and there is nothing wrong with that, provided that it is a sufficiantly widespread trend (which is the case) and that there are reliable sources.
If this article was to remain in its present state, then it should be merged. But as I say, it could be expanded, and would then be worthy of its own space. So for the moment I oppose a merge, but if nothing has changed in a couple of months, then it should be merged (it is a fairly young article after all, let's give it some time). Iron C hris | (talk) 17:48, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
Since no consensus was reached on the merge with T-shirt I am removing the merge tag. -- Mattarata 02:03, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
"You're a punk rock kid; you're a Madonna wannabe; you're a headbanger."
Without really mentioning the rock concert T, does this kinda encompass the "Black concert T-shirt" concept?
When I wear my Nico denim jacket, my Abba baseball cap, or my Lords Of Acid buttplug, aren't I just showing other music enthusiasts how cool I am? This is all one behavior, right? — edgarde 02:23, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
-I believe all of these links to be better than a an obscure blog reference, and I think they can help add material to the article.
-- Mattarata 00:54, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
I admit I'm impressed by Mattarata's references. I think the way to go would be a rename to Band T-shirt, with a section on Black concert T-shirts. If someone can't fashion a reasonably encyclopedic entry on that sub-topic, just a list of terse quotes from Mattarata's references with in-line citations would certainly stand up. Then put a {{ main}} "Main article" link on T-shirt.
Can we get some agreement on this? I don't want to act alone, or try and steamroll this through. I just think this is a good way to keep this information up to Wikipedia standards. — edgarde 04:11, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
i'm all for keeping this page, but a rename would be nice. while most people are pushing for a more generalized name in terms of colour, i'm voting for dropping the 'concert' bit. black t-shirts have become a generic term for concert goers in some places... in india for one. unfortunately, i wouldn't have any references for this. i speak purely from experience. it's on the lines of calling people longhairs. in a sentence, 'oi, black t-shirts, shift your moshing away from the stage. you're stepping on my pedals.' --Yufeeko 17:26, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
Instead of generalizing the article, perhaps it could be added as a section of Heavy Metal Fashion. The details of the article would be able to be kept whole. Ultimate77 01:16, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
This will never get out of stubbliness as it is - why not rename to Concert T-shirt, which will leave "Black concert T-shirt" as a redirect there, and then have a nice fat portion of that article devoted to the fact that most concert T-shirts are black. I'd be curious to know when concert T-shirts came into use at all. Cheers! bd2412 T 16:32, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
This reference was removed as "unsuitable". Why is it?
Teenage kids, even rebels, don't like to be alone, so when kids opt out of the system, they tend to do it as a group. At the schools I went to, the focus of rebellion was drug use, specifically marijuana. The kids in this tribe wore black concert t-shirts and were called 'freaks.'
{{
cite book}}
: External link in |chapterurl=
(
help); URL–wikilink conflict (
help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl=
ignored (|chapter-url=
suggested) (
help); Unknown parameter |month=
ignored (
help); Unknown parameter |origmonth=
ignored (
help)Edit summary: one guy saying that black concert t-shirt wearers are "freaks" is not a reliable source; it's just someone's POV. However, every sourced statement this article is collected opinion about the significance of the title subject, so no one editor's argument of "I disagree" with any notable source is by itself enough reason to remove a sourced statement. Remove this, and the article is increasing original research. / edg ☺ ★ 16:22, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
I think this article should be rewritten into an article about band shirts in general, or even better: band merchandise. Most band shirts aren't concert shirts, not all of them are black and many are longsleeves or hoodies. For example: I have about 20 band shirts of which four are hoodies, four are longsleeves, three aren't black and only three or four are concert tees.
I just noticed that this article got nominated for deletion and then moved. As the original author of the page, I was notified, but didn't get a chance to comment before the process was closed. I do object to moving the article. The idea of the article is to document the fad/trend/phenomenon that is the Black Concert t-shirt, not concert t-shirts in general. Concert t-shirts have become a small part of the larger merchandising efforts by bands and groups, but the idea of the black concert t-shirt is much different. The black t-shirt is a cultural identifier, a uniform of sorts, that different groups of people have used and continue to use to identify themselves. Yes there are many other colors now, but the traditional idea of a black concert t-shirt needs to be emphasized. At the very least, the article now needs to be more extensive to cover concert t-shirts in general with a specific section on the idea of the black concert t-shirt. As it is, someone is going to come in and remove all references to black, which will lose the original idea of the article. Then the article will have even more cause to be deleted or to be merged with concert merchandising or something. -- Mattarata ( talk) 19:40, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
"Such shirts are everyday wear in some teen subcultures, especially stoners and freaks.[4]" isn't that just the editors opinion? eeew eew look out those weirdoes in black shirts, i bet they smoke pot. 67.176.22.6 ( talk) 04:04, 14 September 2008 (UTC)