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Discussion about adding images for this article here, I hope. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Moni3 ( talk • contribs) 15:13, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
Now for your other examples:
You've linked to the temporary files, and the links no longer work (they may have only ever worked for you). You need to quote the Digital ID number and we can go from there. I've linked to what I think are the pictures. Can you confirm if these are the right pictures, please? Carcharoth ( talk) 10:25, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
To summarise from the other page, the pictures are all B&W historic images from 1963, showing things related to, or part of, the struggle and campaigns for civil rights in Birmingham, Alabama, USA. The proximate source is the Library of Congress, which holds archives of such images. The original sources fall into three categories:
The last one is easy. It is indeed work by the US government (in this case the National Park Service). Our article says: "The permanent collection of HABS/HAER/HALS is housed at the Library of Congress. As a branch of the U.S. Federal Government, its created works are in the public domain." - so I'll upload that one now for Moni3's article. The others, I'll let others comment on. I think I've unearthed enough information for something definitive to be said. Carcharoth ( talk) 11:50, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
I tried a free museum exhibition shot, but it's not having the right effect. You have to peer at the screen to see anything, and even then its not much. I think we will need to upload the iconic fire hoses and police dog images. I'll try and do that tomorrow. Carcharoth ( talk) 03:23, 23 December 2007 (UTC)
Reset indent. Photo No. 2 was taken by Charles Moore. "This picture of people being pummeled by a liquid battering ram rallied support for the plight of the blacks." That's from the page I linked the photo to. From my source McWhorter, about Photo 3 and Photo 4 (taken by Bill Hudson) it says in the caption for them that they: "shifted international opinion to the side of the civil rights revolution and branded the man responsible for the imagery, Public Safety Commissioner Bull Connor as the villain of the era." (photo spread p. 9)
In The Best of LIFE, pp. 38 - 39 show Photo 1 and Photo 2, both by Moore in a section described in the book as "an eloquent and graphic treasury of our times." (Time Inc, 1973) In McWhorter, Moore's and Hudson's reactions to the scene are described graphically. Moore, a former marine combat photographer was "jarred" and "sickened" by what he saw, and was hit in the ankle by a brick meant to hit the police from the crowd. Hudson said his only priorities in the melee were "making pictures and staying alive," and "not getting bit by a dog." Of Photo 4: the man getting bit by the dog is Walter Gadsden, a high school senior from Parker High School. He stepped out in front of Hudson, the officer grabbed Gadsden's sweater, the dog lunged, and Bull Connor chastised the officer for not bringing a meaner dog.
"Moore sensed (the film he shot that was on its way to New York) was likely to obliterate in the national psyche any notion of a 'good southerner.' The first shot he had gotten that day would grace the double-truck opening of Life's spread - firemen thrusting their hose in a common purpose that recalled another era-defining picture, of the Marines planting the American flag at Iwo Jima...The headline would be 'They Fight a Fire That Won't Go Out.' The dogs and fire houses dominated the evening news. The scene had been a cameraman's dream...(Huntley-Brinkley reporter) R.W. "Johnny" Apple Jr. would maintain that none of the many war zones he covered upset or frightened him as much Birmingham....Some of Hudson's hose-spray shots captured the "fair atmosphere" he had discerned before the K-9 Corps was called out. but one of them - the saintly calm of young Walter Gadsden in the snarling jaws of the German shepherd (Photo 4) - gave (AP Atlanta editor) Jim Laxon the same surge he had felt when he processed his first Pulitzer Prize winner, a shot of a woman jumping from an upper story window in Atlanta's Winecoff Hotel fire of December 1946."(McWhorter, pp 370-374)
Hudson's photo of Walter Gadsden ran across three columns above the fold in The New York Times on May 4, 1963. The K-9 Corps of Birmingham took its mystical place next to the bloodhounds chasing Eliza across the ice floes in Uncle Tom's Cabin.
(I swear I didn't make up that bit about Iwo Jima.) I feel like the best photos that have the most documentation of the most impact of the day are Photo 2 and Photo 4. -- Moni3 ( talk) 04:01, 23 December 2007 (UTC)
See Image:321037pv cropped.JPG. I'll put it in the article. Carcharoth ( talk) 12:14, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
The other two photos I found are not strictly central to this article, but I'll note them here in case you find a use for them.
I'll go and upload those now. Carcharoth ( talk) 00:54, 23 December 2007 (UTC)
Hi Moni3, I added an LoCE in-use tag to the top of the article a few moments ago, and I'm beginning my copyedit. If I get stuck or have questions, I'll post more comments here. Finetooth ( talk) 18:57, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
<undent>I think that's it except for the question noted above. I'm going to sign off on the LoCE copyediting form, and a proofreader may come along after me to look things over with a fresh set of eyes. Please post messages here or on my talk page if you have questions or comments. Good luck with the continuing process at FAC. Finetooth ( talk) 19:43, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
I'm primarily responsible for expanding this article and bringing it to FA - a very difficult and tedious process. I'm sure you know that anyone may add to the article, but much work is involved in keeping the high quality in featured articles. I would very much like to see it remain FA, so some of the changes you made to the article will have to be compromised. I hope you would consider reading the Featured Article process this article went through, which you can find at the top of the page under "Article Milestones".
Dear fellow contributors
MOSNUM no longer encourages date autoformatting, having evolved over the past year or so from the mandatory to the optional after much discussion there and elsewhere of the disadvantages of the system. Related to this, MOSNUM prescribes rules for the raw formatting, irrespective of whether or not dates are autoformatted. MOSLINK and CONTEXT are consistent with this.
There are at least six disadvantages in using date-autoformatting, which I've capped here:
Removal has generally been met with positive responses by editors. I'm seeking feedback about this proposal to remove it from the main text (using a script) in about a week's time on a trial basis. The original input formatting would be seen by all WPians, not just the huge number of visitors; it would be plain, unobtrusive text, which would give greater prominence to the high-value links. BTW, anyone has the right to object, and my aim is not to argue against people on the issue. Tony (talk) 12:34, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
Hi. Thanks, Moni3, (or just Moni if I may?) for the quick look at my edits. The lede, wouldn't naming people who 'led' the campaign include Shuttlesworth and Bevel in addition to King? Shuttlesworth started most of the early actions, and worked Birmingham for a long time before SCLC came in. When King's, Walker's, and the groups direct action program didn't work, it was Bevel who came up with the idea to use the children, described the plan to King, who agreed, and then trained and used the children. King then tried to withdraw that use, but Bevel told him no, he would keep on using them and actually escalate. This action, the Children's Crusade, is what brought the Birmingham Movement its prominence. So wouldn't it be accurate to either name Bevel along with King, or to add Shuttlesworth and Bevel along with King in the lede, or just to remove names altogether in that particular sentence? I can put sources into the data, and expand the data as well, if needed. Thanks, and again, a very good article which covers almost everything except the March to Washington data, which would come close to completing it. Randy Kryn ( talk) 23:33, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
When business leaders resisted the boycott, King, SCLC organizer Wyatt Tee Walker, and Birmingham native Fred Shuttlesworth began what they termed Project C, a series of sit-ins and marches intended to provoke mass arrests. After the campaign ran low on adult volunteers, high school, college, and elementary students were trained by SCLC coordinator James Bevel to participate, resulting in hundreds arrested and instantly intensifying national media attention on the campaign.
Since the photographs in this article are mostly from 1963, there's a decent chance they are actually public domain now. Anything published in the US before 1964 only had a copyright term of 27 years unless the copyright was renewed, and most copyright renewals were just for books and films. Very few photographs, newspapers, or magazines were renewed. The trick is finding photographs that were actually published at the time, rather than later on in books. Usually you can look through newspapers from the era on microfilm to find some. Google books also has a thorough collection of Ebony and Jet magazines from the 1960s that often have photographs of civil rights actions. After some thorough digging, I was able to illustrate the Nashville sit-ins article with 100% public domain images. Kaldari ( talk) 19:51, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
Just made an edit on "Resolution" section to clarify that the Gaston Hotel/AD King bombing took place late at night, and the riot erupted in the early morning. Also described extent of riot: state troopers called in, state troopers defied by crowd, thousands on streets, numerous fires, several stabbings. Citations from Time magazine and Glenn T. Eskew's book. GPRamirez5 ( talk) 01:31, 15 September 2013 (UTC)
Birmingham campaign | |||
---|---|---|---|
Part of the Civil Rights Movement | |||
Date | April 3, 1963 – May 10, 1963 [1] | ||
Location | |||
Caused by |
| ||
Goals |
| ||
Methods | Sit-ins, Protest, Protest march, Boycott | ||
Resulted in |
| ||
Parties | |||
| |||
Lead figures | |||
ACMHR member SCLC members City Commissioners
Chamber of Commerce
| |||
Casualties and losses | |||
|
{{
cite book}}
: CS1 maint: multiple names: editors list (
link)
{{
cite journal}}
: Italic or bold markup not allowed in: |publisher=
(
help)
Please share your thoughts. Thanks.
Mitchumch ( talk) 06:39, 29 September 2013 (UTC)
"set at a level that would peel bark off a tree or separate bricks from mortar" It doesn't matter the source the second part of that quote. It is not possible to peel mortar from bricks with high pressure water from a fire hose. Quotations should be limited to factual information not exaggerations or colorful descriptions. 108.206.18.197 ( talk) 00:03, 30 October 2013 (UTC) L K Tucker
As a life-long resident of Birmingham, and growing up during the civil rights era, I practically had a front row seat at some of the incidents mentioned in this article. While it is a wonderfully written article and one can plainly see that an enormous amount of time went into it's writing, the flavor of the article leans to one side. There are several sources used that are not actually historically correct, but personal versions of the incidents... reference # 72 is a perfect example, however there are a dozen and a half or so references like it used in the article writing. The Birmingham Public Library has plenty of "authorized" books, magazines and newspapers with the true, unbiased versions, and someone should consider rewriting the article with true facts instead of "opinions". Roebuckjeffrey ( talk) 12:08, 8 June 2015 (UTC)Jeff Roebuck, B'ham, AL
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This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Birmingham campaign article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Birmingham campaign is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so. | |||||||||||||
This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on April 10, 2013. | |||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||
Facts from this article were featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the " On this day..." column on May 3, 2011, May 3, 2013, May 3, 2015, May 3, 2021, and May 3, 2023. | |||||||||||||
Current status: Featured article |
This
level-5 vital article is rated FA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Text and/or other creative content from this version of Civil rights movement was copied or moved into Birmingham campaign with this edit. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists. |
Discussion about adding images for this article here, I hope. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Moni3 ( talk • contribs) 15:13, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
Now for your other examples:
You've linked to the temporary files, and the links no longer work (they may have only ever worked for you). You need to quote the Digital ID number and we can go from there. I've linked to what I think are the pictures. Can you confirm if these are the right pictures, please? Carcharoth ( talk) 10:25, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
To summarise from the other page, the pictures are all B&W historic images from 1963, showing things related to, or part of, the struggle and campaigns for civil rights in Birmingham, Alabama, USA. The proximate source is the Library of Congress, which holds archives of such images. The original sources fall into three categories:
The last one is easy. It is indeed work by the US government (in this case the National Park Service). Our article says: "The permanent collection of HABS/HAER/HALS is housed at the Library of Congress. As a branch of the U.S. Federal Government, its created works are in the public domain." - so I'll upload that one now for Moni3's article. The others, I'll let others comment on. I think I've unearthed enough information for something definitive to be said. Carcharoth ( talk) 11:50, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
I tried a free museum exhibition shot, but it's not having the right effect. You have to peer at the screen to see anything, and even then its not much. I think we will need to upload the iconic fire hoses and police dog images. I'll try and do that tomorrow. Carcharoth ( talk) 03:23, 23 December 2007 (UTC)
Reset indent. Photo No. 2 was taken by Charles Moore. "This picture of people being pummeled by a liquid battering ram rallied support for the plight of the blacks." That's from the page I linked the photo to. From my source McWhorter, about Photo 3 and Photo 4 (taken by Bill Hudson) it says in the caption for them that they: "shifted international opinion to the side of the civil rights revolution and branded the man responsible for the imagery, Public Safety Commissioner Bull Connor as the villain of the era." (photo spread p. 9)
In The Best of LIFE, pp. 38 - 39 show Photo 1 and Photo 2, both by Moore in a section described in the book as "an eloquent and graphic treasury of our times." (Time Inc, 1973) In McWhorter, Moore's and Hudson's reactions to the scene are described graphically. Moore, a former marine combat photographer was "jarred" and "sickened" by what he saw, and was hit in the ankle by a brick meant to hit the police from the crowd. Hudson said his only priorities in the melee were "making pictures and staying alive," and "not getting bit by a dog." Of Photo 4: the man getting bit by the dog is Walter Gadsden, a high school senior from Parker High School. He stepped out in front of Hudson, the officer grabbed Gadsden's sweater, the dog lunged, and Bull Connor chastised the officer for not bringing a meaner dog.
"Moore sensed (the film he shot that was on its way to New York) was likely to obliterate in the national psyche any notion of a 'good southerner.' The first shot he had gotten that day would grace the double-truck opening of Life's spread - firemen thrusting their hose in a common purpose that recalled another era-defining picture, of the Marines planting the American flag at Iwo Jima...The headline would be 'They Fight a Fire That Won't Go Out.' The dogs and fire houses dominated the evening news. The scene had been a cameraman's dream...(Huntley-Brinkley reporter) R.W. "Johnny" Apple Jr. would maintain that none of the many war zones he covered upset or frightened him as much Birmingham....Some of Hudson's hose-spray shots captured the "fair atmosphere" he had discerned before the K-9 Corps was called out. but one of them - the saintly calm of young Walter Gadsden in the snarling jaws of the German shepherd (Photo 4) - gave (AP Atlanta editor) Jim Laxon the same surge he had felt when he processed his first Pulitzer Prize winner, a shot of a woman jumping from an upper story window in Atlanta's Winecoff Hotel fire of December 1946."(McWhorter, pp 370-374)
Hudson's photo of Walter Gadsden ran across three columns above the fold in The New York Times on May 4, 1963. The K-9 Corps of Birmingham took its mystical place next to the bloodhounds chasing Eliza across the ice floes in Uncle Tom's Cabin.
(I swear I didn't make up that bit about Iwo Jima.) I feel like the best photos that have the most documentation of the most impact of the day are Photo 2 and Photo 4. -- Moni3 ( talk) 04:01, 23 December 2007 (UTC)
See Image:321037pv cropped.JPG. I'll put it in the article. Carcharoth ( talk) 12:14, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
The other two photos I found are not strictly central to this article, but I'll note them here in case you find a use for them.
I'll go and upload those now. Carcharoth ( talk) 00:54, 23 December 2007 (UTC)
Hi Moni3, I added an LoCE in-use tag to the top of the article a few moments ago, and I'm beginning my copyedit. If I get stuck or have questions, I'll post more comments here. Finetooth ( talk) 18:57, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
<undent>I think that's it except for the question noted above. I'm going to sign off on the LoCE copyediting form, and a proofreader may come along after me to look things over with a fresh set of eyes. Please post messages here or on my talk page if you have questions or comments. Good luck with the continuing process at FAC. Finetooth ( talk) 19:43, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
I'm primarily responsible for expanding this article and bringing it to FA - a very difficult and tedious process. I'm sure you know that anyone may add to the article, but much work is involved in keeping the high quality in featured articles. I would very much like to see it remain FA, so some of the changes you made to the article will have to be compromised. I hope you would consider reading the Featured Article process this article went through, which you can find at the top of the page under "Article Milestones".
Dear fellow contributors
MOSNUM no longer encourages date autoformatting, having evolved over the past year or so from the mandatory to the optional after much discussion there and elsewhere of the disadvantages of the system. Related to this, MOSNUM prescribes rules for the raw formatting, irrespective of whether or not dates are autoformatted. MOSLINK and CONTEXT are consistent with this.
There are at least six disadvantages in using date-autoformatting, which I've capped here:
Removal has generally been met with positive responses by editors. I'm seeking feedback about this proposal to remove it from the main text (using a script) in about a week's time on a trial basis. The original input formatting would be seen by all WPians, not just the huge number of visitors; it would be plain, unobtrusive text, which would give greater prominence to the high-value links. BTW, anyone has the right to object, and my aim is not to argue against people on the issue. Tony (talk) 12:34, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
Hi. Thanks, Moni3, (or just Moni if I may?) for the quick look at my edits. The lede, wouldn't naming people who 'led' the campaign include Shuttlesworth and Bevel in addition to King? Shuttlesworth started most of the early actions, and worked Birmingham for a long time before SCLC came in. When King's, Walker's, and the groups direct action program didn't work, it was Bevel who came up with the idea to use the children, described the plan to King, who agreed, and then trained and used the children. King then tried to withdraw that use, but Bevel told him no, he would keep on using them and actually escalate. This action, the Children's Crusade, is what brought the Birmingham Movement its prominence. So wouldn't it be accurate to either name Bevel along with King, or to add Shuttlesworth and Bevel along with King in the lede, or just to remove names altogether in that particular sentence? I can put sources into the data, and expand the data as well, if needed. Thanks, and again, a very good article which covers almost everything except the March to Washington data, which would come close to completing it. Randy Kryn ( talk) 23:33, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
When business leaders resisted the boycott, King, SCLC organizer Wyatt Tee Walker, and Birmingham native Fred Shuttlesworth began what they termed Project C, a series of sit-ins and marches intended to provoke mass arrests. After the campaign ran low on adult volunteers, high school, college, and elementary students were trained by SCLC coordinator James Bevel to participate, resulting in hundreds arrested and instantly intensifying national media attention on the campaign.
Since the photographs in this article are mostly from 1963, there's a decent chance they are actually public domain now. Anything published in the US before 1964 only had a copyright term of 27 years unless the copyright was renewed, and most copyright renewals were just for books and films. Very few photographs, newspapers, or magazines were renewed. The trick is finding photographs that were actually published at the time, rather than later on in books. Usually you can look through newspapers from the era on microfilm to find some. Google books also has a thorough collection of Ebony and Jet magazines from the 1960s that often have photographs of civil rights actions. After some thorough digging, I was able to illustrate the Nashville sit-ins article with 100% public domain images. Kaldari ( talk) 19:51, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
Just made an edit on "Resolution" section to clarify that the Gaston Hotel/AD King bombing took place late at night, and the riot erupted in the early morning. Also described extent of riot: state troopers called in, state troopers defied by crowd, thousands on streets, numerous fires, several stabbings. Citations from Time magazine and Glenn T. Eskew's book. GPRamirez5 ( talk) 01:31, 15 September 2013 (UTC)
Birmingham campaign | |||
---|---|---|---|
Part of the Civil Rights Movement | |||
Date | April 3, 1963 – May 10, 1963 [1] | ||
Location | |||
Caused by |
| ||
Goals |
| ||
Methods | Sit-ins, Protest, Protest march, Boycott | ||
Resulted in |
| ||
Parties | |||
| |||
Lead figures | |||
ACMHR member SCLC members City Commissioners
Chamber of Commerce
| |||
Casualties and losses | |||
|
{{
cite book}}
: CS1 maint: multiple names: editors list (
link)
{{
cite journal}}
: Italic or bold markup not allowed in: |publisher=
(
help)
Please share your thoughts. Thanks.
Mitchumch ( talk) 06:39, 29 September 2013 (UTC)
"set at a level that would peel bark off a tree or separate bricks from mortar" It doesn't matter the source the second part of that quote. It is not possible to peel mortar from bricks with high pressure water from a fire hose. Quotations should be limited to factual information not exaggerations or colorful descriptions. 108.206.18.197 ( talk) 00:03, 30 October 2013 (UTC) L K Tucker
As a life-long resident of Birmingham, and growing up during the civil rights era, I practically had a front row seat at some of the incidents mentioned in this article. While it is a wonderfully written article and one can plainly see that an enormous amount of time went into it's writing, the flavor of the article leans to one side. There are several sources used that are not actually historically correct, but personal versions of the incidents... reference # 72 is a perfect example, however there are a dozen and a half or so references like it used in the article writing. The Birmingham Public Library has plenty of "authorized" books, magazines and newspapers with the true, unbiased versions, and someone should consider rewriting the article with true facts instead of "opinions". Roebuckjeffrey ( talk) 12:08, 8 June 2015 (UTC)Jeff Roebuck, B'ham, AL
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Birmingham campaign. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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This message was posted before February 2018.
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have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 23:57, 20 July 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Birmingham campaign. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
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have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 16:31, 21 September 2017 (UTC)