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Local government section: Someone has inserted that " 'Billinge Higher End' and 'Winstanley' form part of the 'Orrell' ward in the 'Makerfield' constituency". In point of fact, there is no such thing as a 'constituency' in local government. Constituencies elect MPs to the Commons. Also, why has the stuff on townships and neighbourhoods in the Metropolitan B. of Wigan been deleted. I suggest you check the council's official website. They exist and they are here to stay. Yozzer66 22:32, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
Billinge and Winstanley were part of the civic Parish of Wigan. It would have required an act of Parliament for Billinge and/or Winstanley to have become administratively seperate. This only happened in the 1890s with the creation of the Urban District Council. Yozzer66 22:48, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
Neighbourhoods of the 'Metropolitan Borough of Wigan' do, as you say, 'exist'. They have 'existed' for a long time. But an article on 'Billinge and Winstanley' (which, as we both know, are two separate places) is not the place to list the Metropolitan Borough of Wigan's other neighbourhoods.
Billinge is a 'civil parish'. Winstanley is a 'civil parish'. Wigan is an 'Ecclesiastical Parish', which is a 'church thing', and is in the 'diocese of Liverpool', another 'church thing'. Billinge and Winstanley 'civil parishes' are in Wigan 'Ecclesiastical Parish'.
Billinge was an urban district of Lancashire, not an urban district of Wigan!
Wigan Council, indeed, any council, will put what suits 'them' on a their own website.
I know these things because I read written, archived, historical, factual information, not opinion posted on the internet sites. Councils come and go, Billinge Hill will still be there in another thousand years.
much of this article is word for word identical with text at [1] and [2] Morwen - Talk 07:46, 6 November 2006 (UTC)p
I should be interested to know when this was a ward. It isn't at present, and wasn't prior to the new ward boundaries coming into effect in 2004, according to the boundary committee's report on the re-warding. These boundaries dated from 1979... So this leaves the time period from 1973 to 1979 - in 1973 temporary ward boundaries were used, based on existing wards: is quite possible that Billinge and Winstanley constituted a ward then. Not sure where to get this info from, since there was no census in this timeframe. Morwen - Talk 10:11, 6 November 2006 (UTC) ---
The note about Billinge Hospital is wrong. The hospital acted as maternity hospital for the surrounding area, not for Wigan as is suggested.
And certainly not for the whole of Wigan Metropolitan Borough, as that includes parts of Salford and Warrington, each with it's own facilities.
Billinge Hospital did serve as the principle maternity hospital for the Wigan Borough. People outside the Borough were born there, however Wigan Borough's maternity facilities are now located at the infirmary.
I can confirm that Billinge Maternity Hospital was an NHS Hospital and was, therefore, available to any NHS registered patient in the surrounding area requiring maternity care, regardless of them living in Wigan or not. However, it was administered by Wigan NHS Trust.
You are very small minded to think that Billinge Hospital was exclusively for Wiganers. It also served a large part of St.Helens, Rainford, Garswood, Haydock, etc.. When the hospital closed in 2004, 'it' was not 'moved' to Wigan Infirmary, it simply 'closed' and several other hospitals took over it's workload. Also, Wigan 'Metropolitan' Borough, as is now, stretches far from Wigan and, therefore, the new facility at Albert Edward Infirmary does not cover the whole of the borough.
Are you saying that all the people from St.Helens, Rainford, Skelmersdale, Haydock, Garswood, etc. are all 'Wiganers' ? Are you daft ? Need I ask ??
Question: 'If a Dog is born in a stable, is it a Horse?
Whiston Hospital Maternity Unit provides for most of St.Helens now that Billinge has closed. Whiston, if you don't know, is a long way past St.Helens and St.Helens Borough, like Wigan Borough, is now a big place. If you lived in, let's say, Astley, would you want to come to Wigan for hospital care? I think not. Likewise, if you lived in Garswood, would you want to go to Whiston? Don't be small minded. It's a big world out there, look through the big window, the world doesn't revolve around Wigan!
I will not agree to something which I know is factually wrong. Anyone born in Wigan Infirmary will, undoubtedly, have been born 'in' Wigan. Anyone born in Billinge Hospital will have been born 'in' Billinge, not Wigan. Taken to the letter, they would have been born in Billinge, in the Metropolitan Borough of Wigan, but only had they been born there after 1974 as, previously to then it would have been just 'Billinge'. Or, alternatively, why not insist on anybody born in Billinge Hospital, after 1974, must have been born in Manchester ?
That is quite possibly the most ridiculous question ever asked. Im not going to insult your intelligence by giving an answer, however I will say that to refer to those born in Billinge Hospital (quite rightly as you point out after 1974), as being born 'in Wigan', is most definitely acceptable as 100 per cent of those born in that circumstance refer to themselves as being born 'in Wigan'. As an example I think we may have to start describing only those born in the 'City of London' itself (as opposed to the Metropolitan area) as being 'from London'.
I have friends from near Bromley, Kent, and they get offended if anyone refers to them as 'Londoners' or 'Cockneys'. Mind you, they say that the only people who can't cope with them NOT being from London, even though they talk like it and live, are the people they meet when they come to visit us, near Wigan.
Seeing as they are from Kent, who would call them 'Cockneys'? Why would anyone in Wigan think someone from Kent was a Cockney?. What has this got to do with people being born in Billinge Hospital (after 1974) rightly calling themselves Wiganers?
These are two seperate places completely. Winstanley is in Wigan too, it borders on Goose Green, if you walk up highfield grange, the border is is somewhere between Clapgate Lane and Melrose Drive (you can't see it though, it's invisible). People who shop at Winstanley shops and also have a pint in 'the Poacher' consider themselves as part of Wigan town not Wigan Borough as this article describes and they certainly do not consider themselves as living in 'Billinge-and-Winstanly'
82.33.171.111 15:09, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
People living in the towns surrounding Wigan all think they live in Wigan. That's because people from that area are as thick as pig - shit.
82.33.171.111 23:50, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
There's no such place (town, village, manor etc.) as 'Goose Green'. Winstanley borders Pemberton. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.34.33.12 ( talk) 00:26, 29 November 2013 (UTC)
In fact, you leave Wigan as soon as you cross the River Douglas, as that is the 'border' between Wigan and Pemberton. When Pemberton was included into Wigan Borough, in 1894, the Borough Border was moved to the point you show on your link. As you come towards Wigan on the A49 you cross that border where the sign, saying 'Wigan', is, that's just after the M6 entry/exit island at marus bridge.
Regan, unless you are local it is hard to picture, but Billinge was not split into two areas. Please go onto Google Map/Satellite to see for yourself.
80.192.242.187 23:43, 11 December 2006 (UTC) JemmyH.
PS. What was Billinge Higher End ward, is now in Orrell ward. See ONS for ward maps.
Billinge hospital was for all NHS registered patients in the surrounding areas, including Wigan, but not exclusively Wigan. Wigan Borough was, then, only small and it was the only maternity hospital nearby so, of course, it was used by Wigan. The hospital also served NHS registered patients from St.Helens, Rainford, Billinge, Blackbrook, Haydock, Earlestown, Ashton, Golborne, AND Wigan. What makes you think Wigan is so 'important'?
When I was born in Billinge Hospital back in 1966 it was located within the boundaries of 'Billinge-and-Winstanley Urban District Council', Lancashire. My parents were residents in Ashton-in-Makerfield Urban District, Lancashire. I wasn't born in Wigan and my parents didn't live in Wigan. Those born in the hospital after the local government re-organisation in 1974 might argue that they were Wiganers, just as those resident in Ashton may employ similar arguments. I'm not convinced. The Metropolitan Borough of Wigan is a big place. Not everyone born or resident there are Wiganers. (Similarly, not all Merseysiders are 'scousers'. Even those sounding scouse like Birkenheaders will remind you: "Don't be mistaken, don't be misled, We're not scousers, We come from Birkenhead!"). Yozzer66 20:48, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
The National Register of Archives claims to have records for 'Billinge and Winstanley Urban District Council' dating from 1838 to 1974. However, the website 'A Vision of Britain Through Time' says that Billinge and Winstanley UD was created in 1924. Obviously, both these sources can't be correct. Does anybody know which date, if any, is the correct one? Yozzer66 21:37, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
THERE'S NO SUCH PLACE AS 'HIGHER END'. IT'S ALL BILLINGE. YOU REFER TO 'BILLINGE HIGHER END' (the higher end of Billinge) AND PART OF IT IS IN ST.HELENS. YOU THINK YOU ARE CLEVER, BUT YOU'RE A KNOW-NOWT. ARTICLES SHOULD BE ABOUT PLACES, NOT COUNCIL WARDS. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.34.33.12 ( talk) 00:31, 29 November 2013 (UTC)
Right after many hours of work, I have now completed the split into:
and tried to incorporate all the material above. It has been very difficult to follow the conversation becuase of the formatting and lack of signatures. To summarise:
This article needs more referencing added. I will see what I can do, but I have other articles I want to work on. Cheers and I hope this is more accurate. Regan123 19:49, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
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Local government section: Someone has inserted that " 'Billinge Higher End' and 'Winstanley' form part of the 'Orrell' ward in the 'Makerfield' constituency". In point of fact, there is no such thing as a 'constituency' in local government. Constituencies elect MPs to the Commons. Also, why has the stuff on townships and neighbourhoods in the Metropolitan B. of Wigan been deleted. I suggest you check the council's official website. They exist and they are here to stay. Yozzer66 22:32, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
Billinge and Winstanley were part of the civic Parish of Wigan. It would have required an act of Parliament for Billinge and/or Winstanley to have become administratively seperate. This only happened in the 1890s with the creation of the Urban District Council. Yozzer66 22:48, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
Neighbourhoods of the 'Metropolitan Borough of Wigan' do, as you say, 'exist'. They have 'existed' for a long time. But an article on 'Billinge and Winstanley' (which, as we both know, are two separate places) is not the place to list the Metropolitan Borough of Wigan's other neighbourhoods.
Billinge is a 'civil parish'. Winstanley is a 'civil parish'. Wigan is an 'Ecclesiastical Parish', which is a 'church thing', and is in the 'diocese of Liverpool', another 'church thing'. Billinge and Winstanley 'civil parishes' are in Wigan 'Ecclesiastical Parish'.
Billinge was an urban district of Lancashire, not an urban district of Wigan!
Wigan Council, indeed, any council, will put what suits 'them' on a their own website.
I know these things because I read written, archived, historical, factual information, not opinion posted on the internet sites. Councils come and go, Billinge Hill will still be there in another thousand years.
much of this article is word for word identical with text at [1] and [2] Morwen - Talk 07:46, 6 November 2006 (UTC)p
I should be interested to know when this was a ward. It isn't at present, and wasn't prior to the new ward boundaries coming into effect in 2004, according to the boundary committee's report on the re-warding. These boundaries dated from 1979... So this leaves the time period from 1973 to 1979 - in 1973 temporary ward boundaries were used, based on existing wards: is quite possible that Billinge and Winstanley constituted a ward then. Not sure where to get this info from, since there was no census in this timeframe. Morwen - Talk 10:11, 6 November 2006 (UTC) ---
The note about Billinge Hospital is wrong. The hospital acted as maternity hospital for the surrounding area, not for Wigan as is suggested.
And certainly not for the whole of Wigan Metropolitan Borough, as that includes parts of Salford and Warrington, each with it's own facilities.
Billinge Hospital did serve as the principle maternity hospital for the Wigan Borough. People outside the Borough were born there, however Wigan Borough's maternity facilities are now located at the infirmary.
I can confirm that Billinge Maternity Hospital was an NHS Hospital and was, therefore, available to any NHS registered patient in the surrounding area requiring maternity care, regardless of them living in Wigan or not. However, it was administered by Wigan NHS Trust.
You are very small minded to think that Billinge Hospital was exclusively for Wiganers. It also served a large part of St.Helens, Rainford, Garswood, Haydock, etc.. When the hospital closed in 2004, 'it' was not 'moved' to Wigan Infirmary, it simply 'closed' and several other hospitals took over it's workload. Also, Wigan 'Metropolitan' Borough, as is now, stretches far from Wigan and, therefore, the new facility at Albert Edward Infirmary does not cover the whole of the borough.
Are you saying that all the people from St.Helens, Rainford, Skelmersdale, Haydock, Garswood, etc. are all 'Wiganers' ? Are you daft ? Need I ask ??
Question: 'If a Dog is born in a stable, is it a Horse?
Whiston Hospital Maternity Unit provides for most of St.Helens now that Billinge has closed. Whiston, if you don't know, is a long way past St.Helens and St.Helens Borough, like Wigan Borough, is now a big place. If you lived in, let's say, Astley, would you want to come to Wigan for hospital care? I think not. Likewise, if you lived in Garswood, would you want to go to Whiston? Don't be small minded. It's a big world out there, look through the big window, the world doesn't revolve around Wigan!
I will not agree to something which I know is factually wrong. Anyone born in Wigan Infirmary will, undoubtedly, have been born 'in' Wigan. Anyone born in Billinge Hospital will have been born 'in' Billinge, not Wigan. Taken to the letter, they would have been born in Billinge, in the Metropolitan Borough of Wigan, but only had they been born there after 1974 as, previously to then it would have been just 'Billinge'. Or, alternatively, why not insist on anybody born in Billinge Hospital, after 1974, must have been born in Manchester ?
That is quite possibly the most ridiculous question ever asked. Im not going to insult your intelligence by giving an answer, however I will say that to refer to those born in Billinge Hospital (quite rightly as you point out after 1974), as being born 'in Wigan', is most definitely acceptable as 100 per cent of those born in that circumstance refer to themselves as being born 'in Wigan'. As an example I think we may have to start describing only those born in the 'City of London' itself (as opposed to the Metropolitan area) as being 'from London'.
I have friends from near Bromley, Kent, and they get offended if anyone refers to them as 'Londoners' or 'Cockneys'. Mind you, they say that the only people who can't cope with them NOT being from London, even though they talk like it and live, are the people they meet when they come to visit us, near Wigan.
Seeing as they are from Kent, who would call them 'Cockneys'? Why would anyone in Wigan think someone from Kent was a Cockney?. What has this got to do with people being born in Billinge Hospital (after 1974) rightly calling themselves Wiganers?
These are two seperate places completely. Winstanley is in Wigan too, it borders on Goose Green, if you walk up highfield grange, the border is is somewhere between Clapgate Lane and Melrose Drive (you can't see it though, it's invisible). People who shop at Winstanley shops and also have a pint in 'the Poacher' consider themselves as part of Wigan town not Wigan Borough as this article describes and they certainly do not consider themselves as living in 'Billinge-and-Winstanly'
82.33.171.111 15:09, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
People living in the towns surrounding Wigan all think they live in Wigan. That's because people from that area are as thick as pig - shit.
82.33.171.111 23:50, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
There's no such place (town, village, manor etc.) as 'Goose Green'. Winstanley borders Pemberton. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.34.33.12 ( talk) 00:26, 29 November 2013 (UTC)
In fact, you leave Wigan as soon as you cross the River Douglas, as that is the 'border' between Wigan and Pemberton. When Pemberton was included into Wigan Borough, in 1894, the Borough Border was moved to the point you show on your link. As you come towards Wigan on the A49 you cross that border where the sign, saying 'Wigan', is, that's just after the M6 entry/exit island at marus bridge.
Regan, unless you are local it is hard to picture, but Billinge was not split into two areas. Please go onto Google Map/Satellite to see for yourself.
80.192.242.187 23:43, 11 December 2006 (UTC) JemmyH.
PS. What was Billinge Higher End ward, is now in Orrell ward. See ONS for ward maps.
Billinge hospital was for all NHS registered patients in the surrounding areas, including Wigan, but not exclusively Wigan. Wigan Borough was, then, only small and it was the only maternity hospital nearby so, of course, it was used by Wigan. The hospital also served NHS registered patients from St.Helens, Rainford, Billinge, Blackbrook, Haydock, Earlestown, Ashton, Golborne, AND Wigan. What makes you think Wigan is so 'important'?
When I was born in Billinge Hospital back in 1966 it was located within the boundaries of 'Billinge-and-Winstanley Urban District Council', Lancashire. My parents were residents in Ashton-in-Makerfield Urban District, Lancashire. I wasn't born in Wigan and my parents didn't live in Wigan. Those born in the hospital after the local government re-organisation in 1974 might argue that they were Wiganers, just as those resident in Ashton may employ similar arguments. I'm not convinced. The Metropolitan Borough of Wigan is a big place. Not everyone born or resident there are Wiganers. (Similarly, not all Merseysiders are 'scousers'. Even those sounding scouse like Birkenheaders will remind you: "Don't be mistaken, don't be misled, We're not scousers, We come from Birkenhead!"). Yozzer66 20:48, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
The National Register of Archives claims to have records for 'Billinge and Winstanley Urban District Council' dating from 1838 to 1974. However, the website 'A Vision of Britain Through Time' says that Billinge and Winstanley UD was created in 1924. Obviously, both these sources can't be correct. Does anybody know which date, if any, is the correct one? Yozzer66 21:37, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
THERE'S NO SUCH PLACE AS 'HIGHER END'. IT'S ALL BILLINGE. YOU REFER TO 'BILLINGE HIGHER END' (the higher end of Billinge) AND PART OF IT IS IN ST.HELENS. YOU THINK YOU ARE CLEVER, BUT YOU'RE A KNOW-NOWT. ARTICLES SHOULD BE ABOUT PLACES, NOT COUNCIL WARDS. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.34.33.12 ( talk) 00:31, 29 November 2013 (UTC)
Right after many hours of work, I have now completed the split into:
and tried to incorporate all the material above. It has been very difficult to follow the conversation becuase of the formatting and lack of signatures. To summarise:
This article needs more referencing added. I will see what I can do, but I have other articles I want to work on. Cheers and I hope this is more accurate. Regan123 19:49, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 13:51, 21 March 2016 (UTC)
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