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![]() | The contents of the Bilateral stimulation page were merged into Eye movement desensitization and reprocessing on date and it now redirects there. For the contribution history and old versions of the merged article please see its history. |
I don't see why this should be a page. All of the references have to do with EMDR. DolyaIskrina ( talk) 23:59, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
JCJC777 ( talk) 16:10, 1 August 2020 (UTC)
I accept the research base for bilateral stimulation alone is of low quality, and now some 10+ years old. I note the scientists involved seem to have moved on to other areas. JCJC777 ( talk) 11:52, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
There has been a flurry of edits to this page in response to my proposal to merge it with EMDR. I don't see the new sources adding up to evidence that Bilateral Stimulation (BS) is anything more than a subheading of EMDR. The recent editors are engaging in Original Research and, ironically, making my case for me by trying to connect the dots between mood, hemisphere cooperation, and a wide range of stimuli alternating between the left and the right. In short, all their Original Research is an attempt to validate EMDR. If that's the case, then this is further evidence for a MERGE or deletion. In order to argue for an independent BS article, one would need to show significant discussion of BS, outside of an EMDR context. Discussion of eye saccade is not that. Those sources would belong on this page. Saccade. Discussion of how the hemispheres interact and affect mood would also not be that. That would be a sources for this page. Lateralization of brain function. The question is not does BS exists. Of course it does. When you walk, you have BS. When you have both eyes or both ears working you have BS. In fact, it's hard to find moments in which a human body has Mono-lateral stimulation. The question is not "is there some research of various types of stimulation that occur alternating left and right?" again this is a truism. The question is: are there WP:RS that discuss BS outside of the EMDR context. Do they discuss BS as a thing? I haven't had time to read all the new sources, so please LMK which sources make that case. Hit me with your best source. And then, the most critical test: Can you write a definition of BS that would match what appears on this page without mentioning EMDR? The current definition is itself an argument for deleting this page, as it fails on notability. "Bilateral stimulation is the use of visual, auditory, or tactile external stimuli occurring in a rhythmic side-to-side pattern." Cheers. DolyaIskrina ( talk) 03:38, 1 August 2020 (UTC)
Like comparing random Brownian motion with a straight line. Not the same.
Like comparing a piece of instrumental music with a song with lyrics. Not the same.
I guess you don't care to demonstrate that it's anything but OR then. -- Hipal/Ronz ( talk) 21:25, 1 August 2020 (UTC)
"Wikipedia's articles are not meant to provide medical advice. Nevertheless, they are widely used among those seeking health information.[1] For this reason, all biomedical information must be based on reliable, third-party published secondary sources, and must accurately reflect current knowledge. This guideline supports the general sourcing policy with specific attention to what is appropriate for medical content in any Wikipedia article, including those on alternative medicine. [...} Ideal sources for biomedical information include: review articles (especially systematic reviews) published in reputable medical journals; academic and professional books written by experts in the relevant fields and from respected publishers; and guidelines or position statements from national or international expert bodies. Primary sources should generally not be used for medical content – as such sources often include unreliable or preliminary information, for example early lab results which don't hold in later clinical trials."
DolyaIskrina ( talk) 23:34, 2 August 2020 (UTC)"Bilateral Stimulation is a technique of alternating left right repetitive behavior or auditory stimulation, first developed by EMDR practitioners, subsequently examined by a few researchers with increasingly null results for hypothesized mood, memory and cerebral hemispheric effects."
JCJC, I doubt I've read the sources as carefully as you, especially the books that haver been cited. What specifically is the helpful information that you hope visitors to this page will get? Does my proposed definition cover that? And why wouldn't it be possible to include that on the EMDR page? My reading of the sources is that it is eye movement specifically that has the strongest claims for therapeutic use. Bilateral Stimulation, as I've said above, is such a broad term that it loses meaning. DolyaIskrina ( talk) 03:05, 4 August 2020 (UTC)
I can't tell if the literature connects the following dots the way the recent edits of this article have. 1) BS might affect hemispheric interaction 2) sub-optimum hemispheric interaction is associated with bad mood, hence 3) BS can improve mood. Can anyone find this in the sources? If not, we need to cut those studies that are purely about mood and hemispheric interaction without mention BS, and also we should cut the suggestion that BS affects mood independently of EMDR. To better understand what synthesis is, please read Wikipedia:SYNTH DolyaIskrina ( talk) 18:40, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
![]() | This redirect does not require a rating on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||
|
![]() | The contents of the Bilateral stimulation page were merged into Eye movement desensitization and reprocessing on date and it now redirects there. For the contribution history and old versions of the merged article please see its history. |
I don't see why this should be a page. All of the references have to do with EMDR. DolyaIskrina ( talk) 23:59, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
JCJC777 ( talk) 16:10, 1 August 2020 (UTC)
I accept the research base for bilateral stimulation alone is of low quality, and now some 10+ years old. I note the scientists involved seem to have moved on to other areas. JCJC777 ( talk) 11:52, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
There has been a flurry of edits to this page in response to my proposal to merge it with EMDR. I don't see the new sources adding up to evidence that Bilateral Stimulation (BS) is anything more than a subheading of EMDR. The recent editors are engaging in Original Research and, ironically, making my case for me by trying to connect the dots between mood, hemisphere cooperation, and a wide range of stimuli alternating between the left and the right. In short, all their Original Research is an attempt to validate EMDR. If that's the case, then this is further evidence for a MERGE or deletion. In order to argue for an independent BS article, one would need to show significant discussion of BS, outside of an EMDR context. Discussion of eye saccade is not that. Those sources would belong on this page. Saccade. Discussion of how the hemispheres interact and affect mood would also not be that. That would be a sources for this page. Lateralization of brain function. The question is not does BS exists. Of course it does. When you walk, you have BS. When you have both eyes or both ears working you have BS. In fact, it's hard to find moments in which a human body has Mono-lateral stimulation. The question is not "is there some research of various types of stimulation that occur alternating left and right?" again this is a truism. The question is: are there WP:RS that discuss BS outside of the EMDR context. Do they discuss BS as a thing? I haven't had time to read all the new sources, so please LMK which sources make that case. Hit me with your best source. And then, the most critical test: Can you write a definition of BS that would match what appears on this page without mentioning EMDR? The current definition is itself an argument for deleting this page, as it fails on notability. "Bilateral stimulation is the use of visual, auditory, or tactile external stimuli occurring in a rhythmic side-to-side pattern." Cheers. DolyaIskrina ( talk) 03:38, 1 August 2020 (UTC)
Like comparing random Brownian motion with a straight line. Not the same.
Like comparing a piece of instrumental music with a song with lyrics. Not the same.
I guess you don't care to demonstrate that it's anything but OR then. -- Hipal/Ronz ( talk) 21:25, 1 August 2020 (UTC)
"Wikipedia's articles are not meant to provide medical advice. Nevertheless, they are widely used among those seeking health information.[1] For this reason, all biomedical information must be based on reliable, third-party published secondary sources, and must accurately reflect current knowledge. This guideline supports the general sourcing policy with specific attention to what is appropriate for medical content in any Wikipedia article, including those on alternative medicine. [...} Ideal sources for biomedical information include: review articles (especially systematic reviews) published in reputable medical journals; academic and professional books written by experts in the relevant fields and from respected publishers; and guidelines or position statements from national or international expert bodies. Primary sources should generally not be used for medical content – as such sources often include unreliable or preliminary information, for example early lab results which don't hold in later clinical trials."
DolyaIskrina ( talk) 23:34, 2 August 2020 (UTC)"Bilateral Stimulation is a technique of alternating left right repetitive behavior or auditory stimulation, first developed by EMDR practitioners, subsequently examined by a few researchers with increasingly null results for hypothesized mood, memory and cerebral hemispheric effects."
JCJC, I doubt I've read the sources as carefully as you, especially the books that haver been cited. What specifically is the helpful information that you hope visitors to this page will get? Does my proposed definition cover that? And why wouldn't it be possible to include that on the EMDR page? My reading of the sources is that it is eye movement specifically that has the strongest claims for therapeutic use. Bilateral Stimulation, as I've said above, is such a broad term that it loses meaning. DolyaIskrina ( talk) 03:05, 4 August 2020 (UTC)
I can't tell if the literature connects the following dots the way the recent edits of this article have. 1) BS might affect hemispheric interaction 2) sub-optimum hemispheric interaction is associated with bad mood, hence 3) BS can improve mood. Can anyone find this in the sources? If not, we need to cut those studies that are purely about mood and hemispheric interaction without mention BS, and also we should cut the suggestion that BS affects mood independently of EMDR. To better understand what synthesis is, please read Wikipedia:SYNTH DolyaIskrina ( talk) 18:40, 8 August 2020 (UTC)