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According to whom are his books controversial?
Dear Wikipedia: It would be ridiculous to delete this article. Bilal Philips is a major figure of English-language Salafi Islam, which has a worldwide reach. While his name may not be known outside of the Muslim community, he is quite well-known within that community. The existing article neither mentions his several influential publications, nor his political views and role in Salafi Islam. He is controversial especially among Salafis because he belongs to one of the splintered Salafi groupings so that others attack him as a "deviant." In fact, it appears that sometime between 1991 and 1994, he was either expelled from Saudi Arabia or had his visa not renewed, so that he had to migrate to the UAE. When I am able, I will try to fix his article here, but I want to write this right now so no one deletes him. I also want to add that in general Wikipedia is poor on Islamic topics and personages. Hardly any of the famous shaykhs of the past are noticed, and many modern personages are overlooked. This is quite apart from the poor quality of many articles that omit salient facts in the subjects lives or are too one sided. Thus, to go around looking for Muslim personages to delete is not the way to go if one wants to claim universal coverage for Wikipedia. ___
Wikipedia is just stupid as hell. We have a whole fucking article about Snappelopes, a whole article about "Soquids" tons of articles about seperate digimons and burger king items, but a popular religious figure is considered for deletion, because of the balant bias against Islam? Like I said, stupid as hell.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.158.234.96 ( talk) 20:01, 5 November 2006
Under the sub-heading education, it says that he reverted to Islam. However, there is no citation to prove that he was a Muslim before. Shouldn't this be removed from the section? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.176.12.172 ( talk) 12:08, 18 February 2012 (UTC)
--Thiru
Ok, looks like I inadvertently jumped into the middle of an earlier edit war. I saw that this article was very sparse so I though I would add the terrorism section to get things started but having just checked the "nominate for delete" discussion, I see that this issue has been raised before and was controversial. I will leave it in because:
1) His denial of a visa in Australia is a matter of record and reported by Australian media and acknowledged by Philips himself. I included his defense.
2) I also included the accusation related to the WTC bombing as well as his defense in which he says nobody on this list was charged. This is an incoherent statement because the term "unindicted" by definition means that there are no charges. The accusation about being an "unindicted co-conspirator" has been made by numerous reputable media and I see no evidence that any retractions have been made or that defamation lawsuits have been filed. On this basis, I will keept this in the article.
4) Same goes for statement about deportation. I included the accusation and his defense.
Sgmiller 11:36, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
Yusuf does have some public visibility but lacks the education of Philips, who has a PhD in Islamic studies. Both notable, but one more so as an academic and intellectual figure. Your are correct though, that should really be referenced. I'll see what I can do about that. Also, should the section "terrorism" perhaps be changed to something along the lines "alleged ties to terror" or something like that? I hate to water things down but to be specific, I don't believe he has been convicted or even charged at this point. While I know it's not your intention to insinuate that he has, some readers may take it that way. MezzoMezzo 05:34, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
I changed the "Terrorism" section to "Controversy" as you are correct about it being misleading. I also took the liberty of removing the term "well-known" from the opening as it is one of the "peacock terms" listed by Wikipedia and to be avoided. Finally, I think you should re-write the sentence again about his status as a Western scholar. First of all, "pioneering" is another peacock term and should be changed. Second, there are many Western "scholars of Islam." I am not convinced he would be accepted as a "scholar" in the Western sense of an academic or professor but I have to research that. I think you mean he is one of the few Westerners considered to be a scholar by a part of the Islamic community. Perhaps you can write it that way and include a reference. I won't try until you have a chance to do it if you want. Sgmiller 15:11 3 June 2007]UTC)
An academic is a person who works as a researcher (and usually teacher) at a university or similar institution in post-secondary (or tertiary) education. He or she is nearly always an advanced degree holder who does peer-reviewed research. In the United States, the term academic is approximately synonymous with that of the job title professor.
No, we don't need to keep indenting. As for your time issue, if you would like I can wait until you're ready to finish this. Just some short points:
Anyway, now that that rant is done, those are my main points. I'm impressed by your dedication early on so i'm willing to wait for you to have more free time to edit if you would prefer to finish this article a bit later. MezzoMezzo 15:34, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
I absolutely MUST go to sleep for a while but I want to straighten things out or at least try to in a quick and dirty way. What I mean by Saudi/Muslim Brotherhood is that it is a matter of historical fact that fleeing MB individuals partly went to Saudi Arabia and took up positions in the important Saudi religious institutions such as the Muslim World League and WAMY and these institutions continue to play an important role in the Muslim Brotherhood in terms of their role in the MB's worldwide expansion. Also, while there may be alot of bad blood in certain Saudi quarters, they (at least the MB I mean) are certainly not gone from Saudi Arabia. In fact, Yousef Qaradawi, undoubtably the real leader of the Muslim Brotherhood outside of Egypt, was recently in Saudi Arabia to do some speaking as I remember. In addition, an extremly well-known French scholar of Islam recenlty told me the are still "all over Saudi Arabia" and if anybody in the Western world would know, it would be him.
Anyway, When I say that I believe that Philips is part of the Saudi/Muslim Brotherhood community I do not mean to suggest that Philips is formally part of the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood but rather that he is affiliated with individuals and organizations that are part of the worldwide MB community although that begs the question of how to verify this (later for that). This community, while perhaps not part of the Egyptian organization, adheres to MB ideology, organizational methods, etc and most certainly has strong ties to the Saudi Arabian organizations I mentioned. This will all be very tricky to express and reference properly but, with your help, I shall try to do it fairly, ok? Sgmiller 16:19 3 June 2007 (UTC)
Here it is: Qaradawi in Saudi Arabia in December 2006 and sponsored by the Saudi Ministry of Islamic Affairs, Endowments, Da`wah and Guidance: http://www.iumsonline.net/english/articles/2006/12/08.shtml Sgmiller 19:40 3 June 2007 (UTC)2007]
The Welsh university said to have given him a doctor of xyz title does not have him in their list of graduates. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.143.55.135 ( talk) 21:52, 29 April 2011 (UTC)
The wiki link for Investigative Project on Terrorism is no longer valid which redirects to the page of its Executive director Steven Emerson. Therefore, rephrasing the introduction paragraph is appropriate. — Rammaum talk stalk 13:45, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
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An image used in this article,
File:Dr.bilal philips.jpg, has been nominated for speedy deletion at
Wikimedia Commons for the following reason: Copyright violations
Don't panic; deletions can take a little longer at Commons than they do on Wikipedia. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion (although please review Commons guidelines before doing so). The best way to contest this form of deletion is by posting on the image talk page.
This notification is provided by a Bot -- CommonsNotificationBot ( talk) 13:10, 25 November 2011 (UTC) |
Almost all the references for this article are dead links. Additionally, not a single impartial academic reference has been provided. The article therefore requires significant rework. RookTaker ( talk) 23:39, 4 January 2014 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Bilal Philips. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit User:Cyberpower678/FaQs#InternetArchiveBot*this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 13:59, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
The article makes several statements suggesting that the subject's views on apostasy from Islam, specifically:
Upon further review of the reference, it quotes a book written by Mr. Philips which provides explanation of the theological justification for the use of capital punishment for apostasy within a certain interpretation of Islam. What the article does not clearly state is the author's view on the subject. To use that reference as proof of his views is inconclusive, as it is written in third person and does not contain a personal statement on his exact views of the subject.
What would be an appropriate reference is a reliable source stating something to the affect of "Mr. Philips over the years has been criticized for his views in support of capital punishment for apostasy in Islam." Could someone please replace the current reference with one that is more clear about the subject's personal views? If none can be found, the statements should be re-written or removed altogether. Djrun ( talk) 00:08, 31 October 2017 (UTC)
In the "Views" section there is a reference to the subject's book on a section he wrote on hand amputation. Has the author's writing on this particular subject been covered in any reliable sources outside of his own book? I'm afraid it may not meet Wkipedia's guidelines on relevancy or reference on its own. Furthermore, the specific book that is referenced here simply appears to be a PDF that was published on his website (note: (c) BilalPhilips.com on the top right-hand corner of the pages). If biographical information was removed from the article due to the fact that it was referenced from his website, then a case can be made for the reference as well. The exception of course is if his book reference is in conjunction with a reliable source reference (e.g.: views pertaining to suicide bombing references).-- Djrun ( talk) 19:09, 12 November 2017 (UTC)
Dear Djrun, I agree with you and, for the reasons you outline, believe these sentences should be removed from the article. Best regards, George Custer's Sabre ( talk) 06:08, 23 November 2017 (UTC)
![]() | This article was nominated for deletion on Nov 6 2006. The result of the discussion was no consensus. |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
According to whom are his books controversial?
Dear Wikipedia: It would be ridiculous to delete this article. Bilal Philips is a major figure of English-language Salafi Islam, which has a worldwide reach. While his name may not be known outside of the Muslim community, he is quite well-known within that community. The existing article neither mentions his several influential publications, nor his political views and role in Salafi Islam. He is controversial especially among Salafis because he belongs to one of the splintered Salafi groupings so that others attack him as a "deviant." In fact, it appears that sometime between 1991 and 1994, he was either expelled from Saudi Arabia or had his visa not renewed, so that he had to migrate to the UAE. When I am able, I will try to fix his article here, but I want to write this right now so no one deletes him. I also want to add that in general Wikipedia is poor on Islamic topics and personages. Hardly any of the famous shaykhs of the past are noticed, and many modern personages are overlooked. This is quite apart from the poor quality of many articles that omit salient facts in the subjects lives or are too one sided. Thus, to go around looking for Muslim personages to delete is not the way to go if one wants to claim universal coverage for Wikipedia. ___
Wikipedia is just stupid as hell. We have a whole fucking article about Snappelopes, a whole article about "Soquids" tons of articles about seperate digimons and burger king items, but a popular religious figure is considered for deletion, because of the balant bias against Islam? Like I said, stupid as hell.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.158.234.96 ( talk) 20:01, 5 November 2006
Under the sub-heading education, it says that he reverted to Islam. However, there is no citation to prove that he was a Muslim before. Shouldn't this be removed from the section? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.176.12.172 ( talk) 12:08, 18 February 2012 (UTC)
--Thiru
Ok, looks like I inadvertently jumped into the middle of an earlier edit war. I saw that this article was very sparse so I though I would add the terrorism section to get things started but having just checked the "nominate for delete" discussion, I see that this issue has been raised before and was controversial. I will leave it in because:
1) His denial of a visa in Australia is a matter of record and reported by Australian media and acknowledged by Philips himself. I included his defense.
2) I also included the accusation related to the WTC bombing as well as his defense in which he says nobody on this list was charged. This is an incoherent statement because the term "unindicted" by definition means that there are no charges. The accusation about being an "unindicted co-conspirator" has been made by numerous reputable media and I see no evidence that any retractions have been made or that defamation lawsuits have been filed. On this basis, I will keept this in the article.
4) Same goes for statement about deportation. I included the accusation and his defense.
Sgmiller 11:36, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
Yusuf does have some public visibility but lacks the education of Philips, who has a PhD in Islamic studies. Both notable, but one more so as an academic and intellectual figure. Your are correct though, that should really be referenced. I'll see what I can do about that. Also, should the section "terrorism" perhaps be changed to something along the lines "alleged ties to terror" or something like that? I hate to water things down but to be specific, I don't believe he has been convicted or even charged at this point. While I know it's not your intention to insinuate that he has, some readers may take it that way. MezzoMezzo 05:34, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
I changed the "Terrorism" section to "Controversy" as you are correct about it being misleading. I also took the liberty of removing the term "well-known" from the opening as it is one of the "peacock terms" listed by Wikipedia and to be avoided. Finally, I think you should re-write the sentence again about his status as a Western scholar. First of all, "pioneering" is another peacock term and should be changed. Second, there are many Western "scholars of Islam." I am not convinced he would be accepted as a "scholar" in the Western sense of an academic or professor but I have to research that. I think you mean he is one of the few Westerners considered to be a scholar by a part of the Islamic community. Perhaps you can write it that way and include a reference. I won't try until you have a chance to do it if you want. Sgmiller 15:11 3 June 2007]UTC)
An academic is a person who works as a researcher (and usually teacher) at a university or similar institution in post-secondary (or tertiary) education. He or she is nearly always an advanced degree holder who does peer-reviewed research. In the United States, the term academic is approximately synonymous with that of the job title professor.
No, we don't need to keep indenting. As for your time issue, if you would like I can wait until you're ready to finish this. Just some short points:
Anyway, now that that rant is done, those are my main points. I'm impressed by your dedication early on so i'm willing to wait for you to have more free time to edit if you would prefer to finish this article a bit later. MezzoMezzo 15:34, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
I absolutely MUST go to sleep for a while but I want to straighten things out or at least try to in a quick and dirty way. What I mean by Saudi/Muslim Brotherhood is that it is a matter of historical fact that fleeing MB individuals partly went to Saudi Arabia and took up positions in the important Saudi religious institutions such as the Muslim World League and WAMY and these institutions continue to play an important role in the Muslim Brotherhood in terms of their role in the MB's worldwide expansion. Also, while there may be alot of bad blood in certain Saudi quarters, they (at least the MB I mean) are certainly not gone from Saudi Arabia. In fact, Yousef Qaradawi, undoubtably the real leader of the Muslim Brotherhood outside of Egypt, was recently in Saudi Arabia to do some speaking as I remember. In addition, an extremly well-known French scholar of Islam recenlty told me the are still "all over Saudi Arabia" and if anybody in the Western world would know, it would be him.
Anyway, When I say that I believe that Philips is part of the Saudi/Muslim Brotherhood community I do not mean to suggest that Philips is formally part of the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood but rather that he is affiliated with individuals and organizations that are part of the worldwide MB community although that begs the question of how to verify this (later for that). This community, while perhaps not part of the Egyptian organization, adheres to MB ideology, organizational methods, etc and most certainly has strong ties to the Saudi Arabian organizations I mentioned. This will all be very tricky to express and reference properly but, with your help, I shall try to do it fairly, ok? Sgmiller 16:19 3 June 2007 (UTC)
Here it is: Qaradawi in Saudi Arabia in December 2006 and sponsored by the Saudi Ministry of Islamic Affairs, Endowments, Da`wah and Guidance: http://www.iumsonline.net/english/articles/2006/12/08.shtml Sgmiller 19:40 3 June 2007 (UTC)2007]
The Welsh university said to have given him a doctor of xyz title does not have him in their list of graduates. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.143.55.135 ( talk) 21:52, 29 April 2011 (UTC)
The wiki link for Investigative Project on Terrorism is no longer valid which redirects to the page of its Executive director Steven Emerson. Therefore, rephrasing the introduction paragraph is appropriate. — Rammaum talk stalk 13:45, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
![]() |
An image used in this article,
File:Dr.bilal philips.jpg, has been nominated for speedy deletion at
Wikimedia Commons for the following reason: Copyright violations
Don't panic; deletions can take a little longer at Commons than they do on Wikipedia. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion (although please review Commons guidelines before doing so). The best way to contest this form of deletion is by posting on the image talk page.
This notification is provided by a Bot -- CommonsNotificationBot ( talk) 13:10, 25 November 2011 (UTC) |
Almost all the references for this article are dead links. Additionally, not a single impartial academic reference has been provided. The article therefore requires significant rework. RookTaker ( talk) 23:39, 4 January 2014 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Bilal Philips. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit User:Cyberpower678/FaQs#InternetArchiveBot*this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{
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This message was posted before February 2018.
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(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 13:59, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
The article makes several statements suggesting that the subject's views on apostasy from Islam, specifically:
Upon further review of the reference, it quotes a book written by Mr. Philips which provides explanation of the theological justification for the use of capital punishment for apostasy within a certain interpretation of Islam. What the article does not clearly state is the author's view on the subject. To use that reference as proof of his views is inconclusive, as it is written in third person and does not contain a personal statement on his exact views of the subject.
What would be an appropriate reference is a reliable source stating something to the affect of "Mr. Philips over the years has been criticized for his views in support of capital punishment for apostasy in Islam." Could someone please replace the current reference with one that is more clear about the subject's personal views? If none can be found, the statements should be re-written or removed altogether. Djrun ( talk) 00:08, 31 October 2017 (UTC)
In the "Views" section there is a reference to the subject's book on a section he wrote on hand amputation. Has the author's writing on this particular subject been covered in any reliable sources outside of his own book? I'm afraid it may not meet Wkipedia's guidelines on relevancy or reference on its own. Furthermore, the specific book that is referenced here simply appears to be a PDF that was published on his website (note: (c) BilalPhilips.com on the top right-hand corner of the pages). If biographical information was removed from the article due to the fact that it was referenced from his website, then a case can be made for the reference as well. The exception of course is if his book reference is in conjunction with a reliable source reference (e.g.: views pertaining to suicide bombing references).-- Djrun ( talk) 19:09, 12 November 2017 (UTC)
Dear Djrun, I agree with you and, for the reasons you outline, believe these sentences should be removed from the article. Best regards, George Custer's Sabre ( talk) 06:08, 23 November 2017 (UTC)