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I ask consensus for restoration of the reliably referenced edit that reports Devon Archer's comment in his testimony that Joe Biden and Pozharskyi had dinner together at a restaurant. DonFB ( talk) 13:26, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
They had food?! Wowzers!!!! Now, provide a source that this consumption of sustenance is relevant to the article. Zaathras ( talk) 19:04, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
The laptop contained an email, the authenticity of which was later verified by The Washington Post in 2022, showing what the New York Post characterized as a "meeting" between Joe Biden and Vadym Pozharskyi, a Burisma advisor, in 2015, though that characterization was disputed by witnesses. The article's veracity was strongly questioned by most mainstream media outlets, analysts and intelligence officials, due to the chain of custody of the laptop and its contents, and suspicion that it may have been part of a disinformation campaign.
You say here Joe Biden and Pozharskyi had dinner together at a restaurant
. Your edit said Joe Biden had dinner with Pozharskyi
. But the source says Last month, Archer testified to Congress that Biden did have dinner with Pozharskyi, Hunter Biden and other associates at Cafe Milano in Washington.
I have previously mentioned that it must be made clear it was a group dinner of perhaps one dozen people, to avoid creating any impression that Joe and Pozharskyi had an intimate dinner together to scheme over candlelight.
soibangla (
talk) 20:31, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
SPECIFICO talk 22:20, 18 November 2023 (UTC)Archer testified recently before Congress that Hunter鈥檚 approach was to sell the illusion, rather than the reality, of access to his father.
The laptop contained an email, the authenticity of which was later verified by The Washington Post in 2022, showing what the New York Post characterized as a "meeting" between Joe Biden and Vadym Pozharskyi, a Burisma advisor, in 2015, though that characterization was disputed by witnesses. The article's veracity was strongly questioned by most mainstream media outlets, analysts and intelligence officials, due to the chain of custody of the laptop and its contents, and suspicion that it may have been part of a disinformation campaign.
While the leak contains genuine files, it remains possible that fake material has been slipped in.[1] I don鈥檛 have access to the Wapo site. This is too fuzzy for a WP:BLP O3000, Ret. ( talk) 16:33, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
Devon Archer, gave sworn testimony to congressional investigators that Hunter was selling his foreign clients 鈥渁n illusion of access to his father鈥.That doesn't implicate Joe Biden or fit into the subject of this article. O3000, Ret. ( talk) 17:41, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
Biden鈥檚 alleged contact with a Burisma executive is a sensitive matter in part because of claims, promoted by Trump鈥檚 allies during the last presidential campaign, that Joe Biden demanded the firing of a Ukrainian prosecutor who had been investigating Burisma on account of his son鈥檚 position with the company.KiharaNoukan ( talk) 17:49, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
But when asked whether he had any evidence of "wrongdoing" by Joe Biden, Archer said: "No, I'm not aware of any."Archer said they
talked about the World Food Programme probably."O3000, Ret. ( talk) 18:19, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
Biden鈥檚 alleged contact with a Burisma executive is a sensitive matter in part because of claims, promoted by Trump鈥檚 allies during the last presidential campaign, that Joe Biden demanded the firing of a Ukrainian prosecutor who had been investigating Burisma on account of his son鈥檚 position with the company.
claims, promoted by Trump鈥檚 allies during the last presidential campaign, that Joe Biden demanded the firing of a Ukrainian prosecutor who had been investigating Burisma on account of his son鈥檚 position with the companywhen those claims have been proven false? soibangla ( talk) 20:19, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
Biden鈥檚 alleged contact with a Burisma executive is a sensitive matter in part because of claims, promoted by Trump鈥檚 allies during the last presidential campaign, that Joe Biden demanded the firing of a Ukrainian prosecutor who had been investigating Burisma on account of his son鈥檚 position with the company.KiharaNoukan ( talk) 20:07, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
there is nothing to demonstrate a crimeis there even anything to demonstrate a chat? a handshake and hello? a smile and nod? that Joe was even aware of Pozharskyi's presence? soibangla ( talk) 20:47, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
The laptop contained an email, the authenticity of which was later verified by The Washington Post in 2022, showing what the New York Post characterized as a "meeting" between Joe Biden and Vadym Pozharskyi, a Burisma advisor, in 2015, though that characterization was disputed by witnesses. The article's veracity was strongly questioned by most mainstream media outlets, analysts and intelligence officials, due to the chain of custody of the laptop and its contents, and suspicion that it may have been part of a disinformation campaign.KiharaNoukan ( talk) 21:33, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
I'm pretty sure that is actually a Devon Archer characterization, since that is attributed to Devon Archer via witness testimony, as opposed to emails retrieved from a laptop. That text should be added in, and as others have mentioned, alongside content such as other attendees and topic of discussion being the World Food Programme. Here are a multitude of sources that bring up Devon Archer's characterization. Politico, Washington Post, Axios, Guardian. KiharaNoukan ( talk) 22:30, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
Joe Biden had dinner with Pozharskyi? I think the testimony was that Biden and Pozharskyi were at a dinner with 10-12 people. That is not a Biden-Pozharskyi meeting. O3000, Ret. ( talk) 22:34, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
Biden鈥檚 team said the meeting did not occur, while other attendees of the dinner told the Washington Post that the then vice-president only stopped by briefly to visit with Alex Karloutsos, a leader in the Greek Orthodox church. Archer contradicted that characterization, telling investigators: 鈥淗e had dinner.鈥
Last month, Archer testified to Congress that Biden did have dinner with Pozharskyi, Hunter Biden and other associates at Cafe Milano in Washington.
Hunter Biden鈥檚 former business partner Devon Archer, asked specifically about this report, disputed those recollections that Biden spoke only to Karloutsos.
Under penalty of perjury, Devon Archer said that the Ukrainian executive did dine with Joe Biden, Hunter Biden and several others at Cafe Milano in April 2015.KiharaNoukan ( talk) 22:51, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
The idea that it doesn't count as a dinner if you have X amount of participants sounds like WP:OR.You need to stop referencing PAGs because you keep getting them wrong. I didn't say it doesn't count as a dinner. There is a huge difference between someone having dinner with someone and someone attending a dinner with many other people one of whom is the person in question. Through his career as President, Vice-President, and Senator, Biden has attended thousands of dinners. Saying he had dinner with someone, as if it was a meeting with that person, because the two attended the same dinner is highly misleading. O3000, Ret. ( talk) 01:11, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
Saying he had dinner with someone, as if it was a meeting with that person, because the two attended the same dinner is highly misleading
Update, Aug. 16, 2023: Pozharskyi met Joe Biden and others at a dinner in Washington, D.C., in April 2015 鈥 which is when Pozharskyi reportedly sent Hunter Biden the email mentioned in the New York Post story. Devon Archer, Hunter Biden鈥檚 former business partner, discussed the dinner during a closed-door interview with the House oversight committee on July 31, 2023, according to a transcript of the interview. However, Archer said business was not discussed at the dinner and that Joe Biden had nothing to do with Hunter Biden鈥檚 business ventures.
...a POLITICO review of recent developments casts doubts on several statements.
Both of those claims were false, according to recent sworn testimony by Hunter Biden and his business partner, Devon Archer.
It's about time to update this article and those mentioned here (sources below). Lev Parnas has named multiple parties who knowingly peddled Russian lies about Joe Biden: The GOP, Fox News and a few other right-wing media groups, Trump, Rudy Giuliani, Devin Nunes, Pete Sessions, Ron Johnson, John Solomon, and Sean Hannity.
Some sources, with properly formatted refs, ready for use:
Political strategist Rachel Bitecofer wrote: "House Republicans knew their source was a Russian asset, the same House Republicans did the same thing during the Ukraine blackmail impeachment where intel told them their info was Russian disinformation but they used it anyway." She described Republicans as "a national security risk".
Pings: Soibangla, Muboshgu, Zaathras, Victorgrigas, KiharaNoukan, Darknipples -- Valjean ( talk) ( PING me) 16:38, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
Here is that addition to the Lev Parnas article (I have tweaked the ref format and added a wikilink):
At the invitation of committee Democrats, on March 20, 2024, Lev Parnas testified before the House Oversight Committee investigation into the Biden family that was pursuing the impeachment of President Joe Biden. Parnas testified, in part: [4]
The American people have been lied to, by Donald Trump, Rudy Giuliani and various cohorts of individuals in government and media positions. They created falsehoods to serve their own interests knowing it would undermine the strength of our nation ... Congressman Pete Sessions, then-Congressman Devin Nunes, Senator Ron Johnson and many others understood they were pushing a false narrative. The same goes for John Solomon, Sean Hannity and media personnel, particularly with Fox News, who used this narrative to manipulate the public ahead of the 2020 elections. Sadly, they are still doing this today as we approach the 2024 elections ... The only information ever pushed on the Bidens and Ukraine has come from one source and one source only: Russia and Russian agents.
This might be good here. I'll install it. -- Valjean ( talk) ( PING me) 05:53, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
With added references it looks like this:
At the invitation of committee Democrats, on March 20, 2024,
Lev Parnas testified before the
House Oversight Committee investigation into the Biden family that was pursuing
the impeachment of President Joe Biden.
[1]
[2]
[3] Parnas testified, in part:
[4]
The American people have been lied to, by Donald Trump, Rudy Giuliani and various cohorts of individuals in government and media positions. They created falsehoods to serve their own interests knowing it would undermine the strength of our nation ... Congressman Pete Sessions, then-Congressman Devin Nunes, Senator Ron Johnson and many others understood they were pushing a false narrative. The same goes for John Solomon, Sean Hannity and media personnel, particularly with Fox News, who used this narrative to manipulate the public ahead of the 2020 elections. Sadly, they are still doing this today as we approach the 2024 elections ... The only information ever pushed on the Bidens and Ukraine has come from one source and one source only: Russia and Russian agents.
Valjean ( talk) ( PING me) 06:13, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
References
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
It has been proven true that Hunter Biden received millions of dollars and funneled some to 鈥渢he Big guy鈥. Vice President Biden even laughed about forcing Ukraine to fire a prosecutor that was looking into his sons company. 184.177.36.238 ( talk) 18:03, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
Before requesting any edits to this protected article, please familiarise yourself with reliable sourcing requirements. Before posting an edit request on this talk page, please read the reliable sourcing and original research policies. These policies require that information in Wikipedia articles be supported by citations from reliable independent sources, and disallow your personal views, observations, interpretations, analyses, or anecdotes from being used. Only content verified by subject experts and other reliable sources may be included, and uncited material may be removed without notice. If your complaint is about an assertion made in the article, check first to see if your proposed change is supported by reliable sources. If it is not, it is highly unlikely that your request will be granted. Checking the archives for previous discussions may provide more information. Requests which do not provide citations from reliable sources, or rely on unreliable sources, may be subject to closure without any other response. |
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Biden鈥揢kraine conspiracy theory article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources:聽 Google ( books聽路 news聽路 scholar聽路 free images聽路 WP聽refs)聽路 FENS聽路 JSTOR聽路 TWL |
Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10Auto-archiving period: 30聽days聽 |
Warning: active arbitration remedies The contentious topics procedure applies to this article. This article is related to post-1992 politics of the United States and closely related people, which is a contentious topic. Furthermore, the following rules apply when editing this article:
Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page.
|
While the biographies of living persons policy does not apply directly to the subject of this article, it may contain material that relates to living persons, such as friends and family of persons no longer living, or living persons involved in the subject matter. Unsourced or poorly sourced contentious material about living persons must be removed immediately. If such material is re-inserted repeatedly, or if there are other concerns related to this policy, please see this noticeboard. |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
On 14 September 2023, it was proposed that this article be moved to Joe Biden鈥揤iktor Shokin鈥揃urisma conspiracy theory. The result of the discussion was not moved. |
This article is written in American English, which has its own spelling conventions (color, defense, traveled) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
Daily pageviews of this article
A graph should have been displayed here but
graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at
pageviews.wmcloud.org |
I ask consensus for restoration of the reliably referenced edit that reports Devon Archer's comment in his testimony that Joe Biden and Pozharskyi had dinner together at a restaurant. DonFB ( talk) 13:26, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
They had food?! Wowzers!!!! Now, provide a source that this consumption of sustenance is relevant to the article. Zaathras ( talk) 19:04, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
The laptop contained an email, the authenticity of which was later verified by The Washington Post in 2022, showing what the New York Post characterized as a "meeting" between Joe Biden and Vadym Pozharskyi, a Burisma advisor, in 2015, though that characterization was disputed by witnesses. The article's veracity was strongly questioned by most mainstream media outlets, analysts and intelligence officials, due to the chain of custody of the laptop and its contents, and suspicion that it may have been part of a disinformation campaign.
You say here Joe Biden and Pozharskyi had dinner together at a restaurant
. Your edit said Joe Biden had dinner with Pozharskyi
. But the source says Last month, Archer testified to Congress that Biden did have dinner with Pozharskyi, Hunter Biden and other associates at Cafe Milano in Washington.
I have previously mentioned that it must be made clear it was a group dinner of perhaps one dozen people, to avoid creating any impression that Joe and Pozharskyi had an intimate dinner together to scheme over candlelight.
soibangla (
talk) 20:31, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
SPECIFICO talk 22:20, 18 November 2023 (UTC)Archer testified recently before Congress that Hunter鈥檚 approach was to sell the illusion, rather than the reality, of access to his father.
The laptop contained an email, the authenticity of which was later verified by The Washington Post in 2022, showing what the New York Post characterized as a "meeting" between Joe Biden and Vadym Pozharskyi, a Burisma advisor, in 2015, though that characterization was disputed by witnesses. The article's veracity was strongly questioned by most mainstream media outlets, analysts and intelligence officials, due to the chain of custody of the laptop and its contents, and suspicion that it may have been part of a disinformation campaign.
While the leak contains genuine files, it remains possible that fake material has been slipped in.[1] I don鈥檛 have access to the Wapo site. This is too fuzzy for a WP:BLP O3000, Ret. ( talk) 16:33, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
Devon Archer, gave sworn testimony to congressional investigators that Hunter was selling his foreign clients 鈥渁n illusion of access to his father鈥.That doesn't implicate Joe Biden or fit into the subject of this article. O3000, Ret. ( talk) 17:41, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
Biden鈥檚 alleged contact with a Burisma executive is a sensitive matter in part because of claims, promoted by Trump鈥檚 allies during the last presidential campaign, that Joe Biden demanded the firing of a Ukrainian prosecutor who had been investigating Burisma on account of his son鈥檚 position with the company.KiharaNoukan ( talk) 17:49, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
But when asked whether he had any evidence of "wrongdoing" by Joe Biden, Archer said: "No, I'm not aware of any."Archer said they
talked about the World Food Programme probably."O3000, Ret. ( talk) 18:19, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
Biden鈥檚 alleged contact with a Burisma executive is a sensitive matter in part because of claims, promoted by Trump鈥檚 allies during the last presidential campaign, that Joe Biden demanded the firing of a Ukrainian prosecutor who had been investigating Burisma on account of his son鈥檚 position with the company.
claims, promoted by Trump鈥檚 allies during the last presidential campaign, that Joe Biden demanded the firing of a Ukrainian prosecutor who had been investigating Burisma on account of his son鈥檚 position with the companywhen those claims have been proven false? soibangla ( talk) 20:19, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
Biden鈥檚 alleged contact with a Burisma executive is a sensitive matter in part because of claims, promoted by Trump鈥檚 allies during the last presidential campaign, that Joe Biden demanded the firing of a Ukrainian prosecutor who had been investigating Burisma on account of his son鈥檚 position with the company.KiharaNoukan ( talk) 20:07, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
there is nothing to demonstrate a crimeis there even anything to demonstrate a chat? a handshake and hello? a smile and nod? that Joe was even aware of Pozharskyi's presence? soibangla ( talk) 20:47, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
The laptop contained an email, the authenticity of which was later verified by The Washington Post in 2022, showing what the New York Post characterized as a "meeting" between Joe Biden and Vadym Pozharskyi, a Burisma advisor, in 2015, though that characterization was disputed by witnesses. The article's veracity was strongly questioned by most mainstream media outlets, analysts and intelligence officials, due to the chain of custody of the laptop and its contents, and suspicion that it may have been part of a disinformation campaign.KiharaNoukan ( talk) 21:33, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
I'm pretty sure that is actually a Devon Archer characterization, since that is attributed to Devon Archer via witness testimony, as opposed to emails retrieved from a laptop. That text should be added in, and as others have mentioned, alongside content such as other attendees and topic of discussion being the World Food Programme. Here are a multitude of sources that bring up Devon Archer's characterization. Politico, Washington Post, Axios, Guardian. KiharaNoukan ( talk) 22:30, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
Joe Biden had dinner with Pozharskyi? I think the testimony was that Biden and Pozharskyi were at a dinner with 10-12 people. That is not a Biden-Pozharskyi meeting. O3000, Ret. ( talk) 22:34, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
Biden鈥檚 team said the meeting did not occur, while other attendees of the dinner told the Washington Post that the then vice-president only stopped by briefly to visit with Alex Karloutsos, a leader in the Greek Orthodox church. Archer contradicted that characterization, telling investigators: 鈥淗e had dinner.鈥
Last month, Archer testified to Congress that Biden did have dinner with Pozharskyi, Hunter Biden and other associates at Cafe Milano in Washington.
Hunter Biden鈥檚 former business partner Devon Archer, asked specifically about this report, disputed those recollections that Biden spoke only to Karloutsos.
Under penalty of perjury, Devon Archer said that the Ukrainian executive did dine with Joe Biden, Hunter Biden and several others at Cafe Milano in April 2015.KiharaNoukan ( talk) 22:51, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
The idea that it doesn't count as a dinner if you have X amount of participants sounds like WP:OR.You need to stop referencing PAGs because you keep getting them wrong. I didn't say it doesn't count as a dinner. There is a huge difference between someone having dinner with someone and someone attending a dinner with many other people one of whom is the person in question. Through his career as President, Vice-President, and Senator, Biden has attended thousands of dinners. Saying he had dinner with someone, as if it was a meeting with that person, because the two attended the same dinner is highly misleading. O3000, Ret. ( talk) 01:11, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
Saying he had dinner with someone, as if it was a meeting with that person, because the two attended the same dinner is highly misleading
Update, Aug. 16, 2023: Pozharskyi met Joe Biden and others at a dinner in Washington, D.C., in April 2015 鈥 which is when Pozharskyi reportedly sent Hunter Biden the email mentioned in the New York Post story. Devon Archer, Hunter Biden鈥檚 former business partner, discussed the dinner during a closed-door interview with the House oversight committee on July 31, 2023, according to a transcript of the interview. However, Archer said business was not discussed at the dinner and that Joe Biden had nothing to do with Hunter Biden鈥檚 business ventures.
...a POLITICO review of recent developments casts doubts on several statements.
Both of those claims were false, according to recent sworn testimony by Hunter Biden and his business partner, Devon Archer.
It's about time to update this article and those mentioned here (sources below). Lev Parnas has named multiple parties who knowingly peddled Russian lies about Joe Biden: The GOP, Fox News and a few other right-wing media groups, Trump, Rudy Giuliani, Devin Nunes, Pete Sessions, Ron Johnson, John Solomon, and Sean Hannity.
Some sources, with properly formatted refs, ready for use:
Political strategist Rachel Bitecofer wrote: "House Republicans knew their source was a Russian asset, the same House Republicans did the same thing during the Ukraine blackmail impeachment where intel told them their info was Russian disinformation but they used it anyway." She described Republicans as "a national security risk".
Pings: Soibangla, Muboshgu, Zaathras, Victorgrigas, KiharaNoukan, Darknipples -- Valjean ( talk) ( PING me) 16:38, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
Here is that addition to the Lev Parnas article (I have tweaked the ref format and added a wikilink):
At the invitation of committee Democrats, on March 20, 2024, Lev Parnas testified before the House Oversight Committee investigation into the Biden family that was pursuing the impeachment of President Joe Biden. Parnas testified, in part: [4]
The American people have been lied to, by Donald Trump, Rudy Giuliani and various cohorts of individuals in government and media positions. They created falsehoods to serve their own interests knowing it would undermine the strength of our nation ... Congressman Pete Sessions, then-Congressman Devin Nunes, Senator Ron Johnson and many others understood they were pushing a false narrative. The same goes for John Solomon, Sean Hannity and media personnel, particularly with Fox News, who used this narrative to manipulate the public ahead of the 2020 elections. Sadly, they are still doing this today as we approach the 2024 elections ... The only information ever pushed on the Bidens and Ukraine has come from one source and one source only: Russia and Russian agents.
This might be good here. I'll install it. -- Valjean ( talk) ( PING me) 05:53, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
With added references it looks like this:
At the invitation of committee Democrats, on March 20, 2024,
Lev Parnas testified before the
House Oversight Committee investigation into the Biden family that was pursuing
the impeachment of President Joe Biden.
[1]
[2]
[3] Parnas testified, in part:
[4]
The American people have been lied to, by Donald Trump, Rudy Giuliani and various cohorts of individuals in government and media positions. They created falsehoods to serve their own interests knowing it would undermine the strength of our nation ... Congressman Pete Sessions, then-Congressman Devin Nunes, Senator Ron Johnson and many others understood they were pushing a false narrative. The same goes for John Solomon, Sean Hannity and media personnel, particularly with Fox News, who used this narrative to manipulate the public ahead of the 2020 elections. Sadly, they are still doing this today as we approach the 2024 elections ... The only information ever pushed on the Bidens and Ukraine has come from one source and one source only: Russia and Russian agents.
Valjean ( talk) ( PING me) 06:13, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
References
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
It has been proven true that Hunter Biden received millions of dollars and funneled some to 鈥渢he Big guy鈥. Vice President Biden even laughed about forcing Ukraine to fire a prosecutor that was looking into his sons company. 184.177.36.238 ( talk) 18:03, 2 April 2024 (UTC)